DO You Believe That We Have A Guardian Angel Today

Status
Not open for further replies.
Major said:
I hear you brother.......but Paul was saying and living what we live today.

We have God in us in the Spirit of God.
We have also the sin nature we received from Adam.

We are caught in a WAR that rages in us and we are always, always having to make the right choices in life.

THAT is what Paul was saying in Romans 7 AFTER he was saved. He fought the same battels we fight today!
Click to expand...
We really need to understand that we are just a moment away from acting really badly if we refuse to rely upon the Holy Spirit and submit to what our flesh desires us to be doing!
 
crossnote said:
You also said, "I wish that he were a better writer; but he wasn't."
If Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, how could he write any better?
Perhaps the Holy Spirit could have inspired better?
Click to expand...
The book was penned down as the Holy Spirit Himself inspired it to be, are we now going to play Editor on the Holy Spirit?
 
Major said:
Ooops..........that is going over the line Timothy!!!!

YOU are the one who said....................., "I wish that he were a better writer; but he wasn't."!!!

Maybe with all those 1000's of hours of study you did, you could have thought of something better to say than that.

Maybe something like.........."Gee, Paul who wrote under the guidance of God wrote lots of really good stuff, I wish I was better able to understand what GOD WROTE!"
Click to expand...
Whenever we think that we can "improve" upon what the Holy Spirit inspired down for and to us!
 
YeshuaFan said:
Is he advocating some type of second act of grace, as in "baptism of the Holy Ghost?"
Click to expand...

It would be better to ask him that question. From what I have understood, 2 TimothyGroup is saying that if we have a "circumcised heart", we will then have attained a position where by we will not sin anymore.

I do not like to put words in anyones mouth, so I am reluctant to say that but, that is what Ihave been saying to him and that is........
no matter what we do, whether it be a circumcised heart, or baptism, or repentance, or communion ....nothing removes the old man--the sin nature!
 
Major said:
It would be better to ask him that question. From what I have understood, 2 TimothyGroup is saying that if we have a "circumcised heart", we will then have attained a position where by we will not sin anymore.

I do not like to put words in anyones mouth, so I am reluctant to say that but, that is what Ihave been saying to him and that is........
no matter what we do, whether it be a circumcised heart, or baptism, or repentance, or communion ....nothing removes the old man--the sin nature!
Click to expand...
Sounds old time sinless perfection of Holiness churches!
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
What I say comes from the Bible. I have NEVER stated that a person become utterly sinless. I would say, however, that we are taught and led to sin less and less, and that when we do, we have an advocate.

2 Corinthians 3:14-18 NLT - "But the people's minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. 15 Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand. 16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord--who is the Spirit--makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image."

That "Veil" [IS] the Sinful Nature. We need to study the Veil of Moses as it is in the Old Testament.

I also believe what John said, which is that True Christians possess no pattern of sin:

1 John 3:8-10 NLT - "But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God. 10 So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God."

1 John 2:1 NLT - "My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous."

So you all can continue to berate and belittle me all you want. For, when you do so, you berate and belittle the Word of God, as I only teach what is in the Bible. What is clear is that you people do not understand what is in the Bible. So if you're looking for someone to criticize, go find a mirror.
Click to expand...
I do not think that the "veil" in 2 Corth. 3:14 istthe "Sinful Nature" of man.

Personally, I think that the "veil" seen in this Scripture is used in the second part of the 2 Cor 3:14 as a metaphor of the old covenant - since the Jews would not accept that the old covenant had been removed (or lifted) then it remained as a veil over their understanding of the work of Messiah, Jesus and the new covenant. The ESV is a reasonable translation here ...........
"But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away."

Now as for 1 John 3:8-10 ......I believe that John is telling us that people who deliberately, knowingly, carry on sinning, they know neither God who gave the law nor Christ who takes away sin.
That means then that those people are "make believers" and were never saved to begin with.

When I read those Scriptures, I personally do not see John saying that Christians cannot sin because he has already shown the impossibility of that in chapter 1:6-10. It seems to me that John here is talking about those who KNOWINGLY sin or live in the sin that they like.
We--They will sin and have failures and make mistakes, but that is not the same as knowingly sinning habitually (vs. 4-6).

In other words.....a man who lived his life as a thief, says he accepts Christ but keeps right on stealing everything he can get his hands is not a Christian according to John's words.

Now lets consider 1 John 2:1 that you posted......when we consider the original Greek, "That ye sin not" - actually means......
"To keep you from sin, or to induce you to lead a holy life."

If we are true Christians, we will have a divine power of the Holy Spirit within us so as to fight against the devil's temptations so that we might not choose to sin. John is then saying that ....If we sin habitually, knowingly, then it shows that they we are not Christians at all (vs. 9-10).
 
Last edited:
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Colossians 2:9-15. Every Bible references the Circumcision of Christ. And every Bible speaks about the Circumcision of God. And every Bible writes about the Circumcision of the Holy Spirit. Your question proves, by the way, that virtually no one references the Circumcision of Christ (which happens to be the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, of which produces the Effect of Christ). Our teachers and preachers hide it; we're ashamed of the Holy Word Circumcision just as Adam covered and hid his "shame." Throughout the Old Testament, we see people hiding their "shame," that people would not look "up the skirts" of men. Think of Noah, here, as well. This is all directly pointing to Circumcision and the necessity of being redeemed of that which we are ashamed of. This is why Abraham is the Father of David, who is the Father of Christ. This is why Abraham is our Father of Faith. Spiritual Circumcision was instituted in the life of Abraham in Genesis chapter 17. Diligent study of Spiritual Circumcision will completely transform a person's view of the Holy Scriptures. And did you notice the Word Transform that I just used? A Romans 12:2 Transformation only takes place if Circumcision of the Heart has taken place. Truly, Colossians 2:9-15 gives context to the Bible as a whole. Colossians 2:9-15 is at the very Heart of the Bible . . . no pun intended.

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

When our hearts are Spiritually Circumcised, we lose that which is responsible for causing shame, for it has been "cut away." In this removal, we are cleansed; that which is ugly, diseased, and shameful is taken away. At this point, a Genuine believer begins to obey, for the Veil of Moses has been lifted.

Yeshuafan . . . the entire Core of the Bible, and Gospel, has been kept from you. It has been hidden and it remains hidden from nearly all people and for all time. This is the great "Mystery" that Paul talks about in Ephesians chapters 3 and 2. Yes, read those two chapters in that specific order. One of the reasons for why Peter stated that the things that Paul writes about . . . well, it is no accident, for the Lord apparently caused Paul to write in such a fashion that the Mysterious Plan of God would remain hidden, just as the Truth was kept hidden from the Pharisees, Sadducees, and the teachers of the Law. They THOUGHT they understood, but as Jesus said in John 3:39, He came to give sight to the blind, those who claim that they can "see."

Peter wrote:
2 Peter 3:15-16 NLT - "And remember, our Lord's patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him--speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction."

What is critical is that we lean not upon our own understandings, or the understandings of others, but through persistent Asking, Seeking, and Knocking (which never ends), the Holy Spirit will teach us the Truth. This is why I do not read "commentaries," for in by reading commentaries, we are still be taught and led by "men." I'm not saying that it is outright wrong to read the words of others, nor am I saying that it is wrong to be taught by "men." The problem is this: Few are like the Bereans, who after being taught, they examined the Scriptures closely to see if what they were taught was True. In my lifetime of being in the "church," few are actual "Bereans." And so this is why I say that no one should simply believe even me and the things that I write or say, but to test them, fully, against the Holy Word of God.
Click to expand...
You are claiming to have fresh revelation from the Holy Spirit, but we are commanded to test the spirits!
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
What I say comes from the Bible. I have NEVER stated that a person become utterly sinless. I would say, however, that we are taught and led to sin less and less, and that when we do, we have an advocate.

2 Corinthians 3:14-18 NLT - "But the people's minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. 15 Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand. 16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord--who is the Spirit--makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image."

That "Veil" [IS] the Sinful Nature. We need to study the Veil of Moses as it is in the Old Testament.

I also believe what John said, which is that True Christians possess no pattern of sin:

1 John 3:8-10 NLT - "But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God. 10 So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God."

1 John 2:1 NLT - "My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous."

So you all can continue to berate and belittle me all you want. For, when you do so, you berate and belittle the Word of God, as I only teach what is in the Bible. What is clear is that you people do not understand what is in the Bible. So if you're looking for someone to criticize, go find a mirror.
Click to expand...
We understand the bible, but do not recognize your so called revelations on it!
 
Major said:
Do you really think that is a good thing to say to anyone?

Is that the example of what you have been teaching us that Christians do not have a sin nature??? I am just asking not criticizing!
Click to expand...
Really a red flag when any starts to claim deeper revelations from the Holy Spirit, that all of us have had it wrong until now!
 
Major said:
It would be better to ask him that question. From what I have understood, 2 TimothyGroup is saying that if we have a "circumcised heart", we will then have attained a position where by we will not sin anymore.

I do not like to put words in anyones mouth, so I am reluctant to say that but, that is what Ihave been saying to him and that is........
no matter what we do, whether it be a circumcised heart, or baptism, or repentance, or communion ....nothing removes the old man--the sin nature!
Click to expand...
Are not all of the saved ones who are now have the Circumcised heart though?
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
It seems that you're mocking me as was Crossnote. I said essentially the same thing that Peter said about Paul. I did not attack Paul. You all may think that I was, but your judgments of me cause me no distress whatsoever. They only cause me to want to leave your presence, for time spent, here, is time spent in a wasteland. So I will leave you all to be experts of me and the things I have written. As you all sit in your Seats of Judgment of me, know that I couldn't care less.
Click to expand...

Timothy.............Please calm down!

When you or anyone else posts comments that are correct to you but unorthodox, to others, you must be able to field the questions and positions of others who do not agree with you with Christian love and grace instead of a combative nature. Where do you think that the attitude you are displaying comes from?

Do you grasp the fact that you are completely destroying your own words and teaching of the sin nature being absent from believers.
 
YeshuaFan said:
Are not all of the saved ones who are now have the Circumcised heart though?
Click to expand...

YES! That is exactly what the Bible says brother.

Paul in his writings, which I know you know..... argues that Jewish physical circumcision is only an outward sign of being set apart to God. However, if the heart is sinful, then physical circumcision is of no avail. A circumcised body and a sinful heart are at odds with each other. Rather than focus on external rites, Paul focuses on the condition of the heart. Using circumcision as a metaphor, he says that only the Holy Spirit can purify a heart and set us apart to God. Ultimately, circumcision cannot make a person right with God; the Law is not enough. A person’s heart must change. Paul calls this change “circumcision of the heart.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top