Aren't you?
Do you really love God?
- Thread starter Victor Courville
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Aren't you?
Yes Sir those are Awesome Blessings of The Lord.......But it is no excuse to stay poor nor is it scripture claiming that is all we are to have here on earth to be Godly and in Right Standing with the Father.
I am not pushing prosperity but rather trying to show being poor is not being humble nor is it scripture to be so.
Blessings
FCJ
How exactly, Biblically would you say that we as Christians are "Reigning in this life through Christ".
Major,
Aren't I what?
I am in No Way claiming wealth here on earth means your reigning but i am saying being poor and claiming it's more Godly is simply Accepting Lack as God's Will.
And you say Aren't you?
Come on Friend. Please don't try to turn what's being said into something it's not.
That's how these silly forum quarrels take place.
Blessings my friend
FCJ
Are you sure that what you said is Biblically correct?
You said.........
"I am not pushing prosperity but rather trying to show being poor is not being humble nor is it scripture to be so."
The church was never given a land or the promise of riches.
Eph. 1:3 tells us.........
“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.”
In Matthew 13:22 Christ spoke concerning the seed of God's Word falling among thorns and “the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful”.
This is the first reference to earthly riches in the New Testament. Clearly, this is not a positive image.
Then In Mark 10:23, ..........
" Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, ‘How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!’” It was not impossible—for all things are possible with God—but it would be “hard.”
In Luke 16:13, Jesus spoke about “mammon” (the Aramaic word for “riches”): “No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”
Again, the imagery here is of wealth as a negative influence on spirituality and one that can keep us from God.
If you think that we are still being true to the ops original question we can go on. Your call.
Hello Major,
That's easy!
Those who are reigning in this life through Christ are walking from victory to victory. Producing much Godly Fruit as they go.
They are the ones who are Blessed in all areas of their life. They see results through God's word.
They are not swayed or moved from living God's ways nor do they allow our enemy the devil destroy their walk in Christ.
They are joyful at all times. Nothing takes their joy away.
I could go on and on but let's just say.....those who see the results of God's word producing what it is written there of in their lives.
Blessings
FCJ
I am not quarreling with you Jim. I simply do not agree with your theology on this subject and you know that. It does seem to me that you are in fact saying that being rich or prosperous is what we as Christians should be.
I have not said or implied that being poor and claiming it's more Godly is simply Accepting Lack as God's Will.
I think that we can agree that God does not condemn anyone for having riches. Riches come to people from many sources, but He gives grave warnings to those who seek after them more than they seek after God and trust in them more than in God. His greatest desire is for us to set our hearts on things above and not on things on this earth. That is all I am saying.
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Is that "reigning" or is it living the Christian life? Just a question, no more and no less.
I see the word "reigning" as the word is promoted in the Revelation so that during the 1000 year rule of Christ on the earth we than will be "Reigning" with Christ.
I question the idea that we as Christians or the church as being in a position of reiging today. In the future but today, I am not so sure of that.
The word "Reigning" to me indicates power and authority and ruling over others and that is the hang up I think..
Major Greetings,
I don't believe you have placed these scriptures in the best place to be used.
For one example Sir,
Matthew 13:22
Those are those who put riches and cares over God's word. Riches and cares have a stronger hold so the Word of God falls away or can not be planted deep enough to grow roots.
Mark 10:23 again is not about being wealthy or rich but about those who place riches as higher authority in their lives.
Luke 16:33
Again it's the lust for riches, greed, the world's way of getting it at any cost.
Jesus said you can't serve both but did not say you can't serve Him if you have riches
Blessings
FCJ
Let no one defraud you by acting as an umpire and declaring you unworthy and disqualifying you for the prize, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions [he claims] he has seen, vainly puffed up by his sensuous notions and inflated by his unspiritual thoughts and fleshly conceit, And not holding fast to the Head, from Whom the entire body, supplied and knit together by means of its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. If then you have died with Christ to material ways of looking at things and have escaped from the world's crude and elemental notions and teachings of externalism, why do you live as if you still belong to the world? [Why do you submit to rules and regulations?–such as] Do not handle [this], Do not taste [that], Do not even touch [them], Referring to things all of which perish with being used. To do this is to follow human precepts and doctrines. [Isa. 29:13.] Such [practices] have indeed the outward appearance [that popularly passes] for wisdom, in promoting self-imposed rigor of devotion and delight in self-humiliation and severity of discipline of the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh (the lower nature). [Instead, they do not honor God but serve only to indulge the flesh.]
Colossians 2:18-23 AMPC
http://bible.com/8/col.2.18-23.AMPC
Exactly.....in this life now we should reign over sin, defeat, poverty, and anything else the devil tries to keep you in.
And that is exactly what I said in comment #27 Jim.
I said........
"I think that we can agree that God does not condemn anyone for having riches. Riches come to people from many sources, but He gives grave warnings to those who seek after them more than they seek after God and trust in them more than in God. His greatest desire is for us to set our hearts on things above and not on things on this earth. That is all I am saying."
With all due respect to you and in Christian love I must say to you and I do not know if you realize this, I suspect that you do, but what you are teaching is referred to as Kingdom Now Theology. When I said that "I do not agree with your theology", that is what I was talking about.
I am not condemning it or arguing with you over it, it is just what you are proposing and IMO I have just as much liberty to question it as anyone else has the liberty to promote it.
It is my understanding based on all of your past comments that this is what you are saying. IF I have misunderstood what you have said then I apologize in advance to you.
However the fact is "Kingdom Now" theology teaches that long ago Satan stole the “keys of spiritual dominion” when he deceived Adam and Eve. Then, when Christ gave the “keys of the kingdom” to Peter in Matthew 16:19, it was a sign that dominion had been returned to man. The idea then is that Now it is our job to “take back” what is rightfully ours – that is, to claim dominion over the earth and spiritually subdue it for Christ. Proponents of Kingdom Now theology believe that the capturing of this dominion includes taking dominion over the earth, events, weather plus a return of spiritual power, manifested by signs, miracles and healing.
Although these systems of thought are nominally based on biblical principles, both Christian Reconstructionism and Kingdom Now theology veer away from the heart and message of the gospel. It is understandable that Christians, troubled by abortion and the general moral chaos of a relativistic society, want to take control of the culture and steer it back towards sanity and believe me, in many ways I am right there with you, But holding to Dominionism is not a biblically viable option IMO.
Now that I have said that to you, your question is probably......well what do you believe??? Excellent question!!
I believe without a shadow of a doubt that it is right and good to want to see justice done and biblical principles upheld. THat is exactly what we see in the Word of God in Psalm 33:5; Amos 5:15; Micah 6:8. And on top of that we are to do everything as unto the Lord as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 10:31.
The Bible tells us that we are salt and light in Matthew 5:13-16, and it is perfectly reasonable for Christians to want to see good, Godly things happen instead of the evil we see all around us.....But “bringing the kingdom of heaven to earth” is not our commission. Our commission is to tell people about the wonderful news that, despite the sick, sinful condition of our souls, God has provided salvation by sacrificing His own Son on our behalf as Paul told us in Romans 5:6-8.
By grace, through faith, we become citizens of a perfect world that will last eternally in Ephesians 2:8-9. Our job is to “rescue those who are perishing; to hold back those stumbling towards slaughter” according to Proverbs 24:11. Christian Dominionism seeks to perfect this world by our own efforts, but it is the Spirit of God who must bring change according to Zechariah 4:6. One day, Jesus will bring His kingdom to earth, in justice and true righteousness, and it will signify the end of this world’s system.
You are welcome to reject my thesis but I must say that in my opinion that the teaching I have described simply is not Biblical.
Yes. Some believe God to be some kind of Cosmic Coke Machine. Feed in your tithe money. Push a prayer button and out comes a wish. God is the potter. We are the clay. It is us He is shaping. It is our buttons being pushed to do His will. To some it may be His will to have earthly riches. To another poverty to learn humility. Which one is the greater? That is not for us to decide who will be first and who will be last in the coming Kingdom. He will decide in the fullness of time.
No Disrespect but how do you come up with this theory?
Poverty to learn humility? That's a hand me down false religious saying.
Scripture says
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Now where would poverty fit?
Stealing, killing and destroying
Or
Life more Abundantly?
Blessings
FCJ
I'm not sure I understand you. Are you implying earthly riches equate to spiritual riches?
Are you asking me this because you want an answer or are you turning things around For I asked you how you come up with God will make you poor to teach you humility?
Obviously I would like an answer. The question you asked me you answered yourself so I didn't know what to say other than to try and understand where you are coming from.
Greetings ,
Thank you for letting me know why you were asking me this. It gets old how many in the forum twist what one says then write these long correcting replies to what was never said.
Now of course there is a difference between earthly riches and spiritual riches.
However this was not the focal point of this conversation.
God does not put sickness or poverty or anything else to teach you something.
Again thank you for taking the time to let me know
Blessings
FCJ
Well, I don't believe in Prosperity Doctrine if that is what your saying. That would put the vast percentage of the Christian world's population in some sort of spiritual deficit compared to rich Christians. We cannot allow ourselves to look at fellow Christians through a materialistic filter and then decide they're not as advanced spiritually. On the contrary. Christ said to build spiritual riches and not earthly riches. I was just trying to find common ground with the OP.
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