First Church?

RiverJordan said:
You don't have to look too far to see all sorts of loony end times stuff coming from certain corners of Christianity. And like I described earlier, it's funny how the "spirit of the Antichrist" is invariably whatever hot button social/political issue of the day happens to be.
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There is some truth to that. People in every corner would be glad to claim something specifically as the literal Anti-Christ. I honestly don't mind theories provided there is some logical backing for it, but to make a definite claim on it is pretty hefty.
 
Everything aside, my intention was to only give an answer to the question. It lead to me only meaning to explain what the Catholic Church is. One is certainly welcome to reject it, and even welcome to hate if they choose...I only think it's fair that one understands what it is he is choosing to hate or reject.
 
MichaelH said:
I know, right out of horror movies....... it is what it is though.
View attachment 857
Num 19:11 He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.

I guess this priest did not get the memo about God not liking us to parade human heads around on a platter. Might be good for Hollywood but we should keep this out of church.

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This Catholic Church in Poland ran out of money for building Material but a visit to the local Graveyard seems to have fixed their situation. I am glad they got it sorted and should rent their building for the next Chainsaw Massacre movie to come out.

I hear you Brother David and why I am Scripture only. God is not the God of the dead..... (that is scripture!!!) guess Rome has yet to receive that memo either.

Blessings.
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Um, what is this for?! I've got a lot of catching up to do, but it's going to take awhile (I've got four kids). Can you explain this in the meantime?
 
RosaVera said:
Catholics do NOT worship Mary as divinity, but , we DO pay homage to her for being chosen out of all other women on earth to be the Blessed Mother for our Lord Jesus the Christ. i doubt that anyone would think that God would just pick any woman just to be 'Jesus momma' ... as a Catholic i must say i find it demeaning to her when she is referred to with such dismissive
'she is just another female' type of mention, as a woman it show contempt not just for her but for all women. We pray to Mary not as divinity but as the one close to Jesus to intervene for us to Him, after all who is closer to Him than her...

Our nation founders which started every session in the House with prayers, yet did not allow Catholics the same freedoms as other Anglicans:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/history/us/ah0020.html
"The English colonies were founded at the same time the Church was persecuted in England. Virginia colonists were members of the English Church; in New England the colonists were Calvinists. Catholics were not permitted in these colonies. Catholics were excluded from the Dutch colony in New York and the Swedish settlement of Delaware also. In 1683 James II appointed Thomas Dongan governor of New York and religious liberty was granted to all. The Jesuits built a Catholic chapel in New York City, and established a Latin school there in 1685. By 1700, laws against Catholics were again put into place. Catholics of New York had to travel to Philadelphia as late as the Revolutionary War to participate in Mass and receive the sacraments."

The rosary is a means of getting in the spiritual by praying to our Lord, those that know the Hail Mary know that it is a prayer for help "Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us now and at the end of our death"...

As for her being the 'Queen of Heaven' is there anyone here that doubts that the Blessed Mother is above all other women whether here or in heaven...?
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But how do you know you are supposed to do that? Who said she was sinless? Jesus is the only one who was sinless... otherwise, it wouldn't make sense.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
Friend, Catholics do not, I repeat, DO NOT worship Mary -- we honor her, just as we are to honor our parents. No prayer to Mary should EVER bypass God as he is the only one with divine power.

Mary isn't dead. Christians believe that in heaven, we receive everlasting life. The Bible is very clear on that. Are we no longer part of the body in heaven? Of course not. In fact, we are more part of the body than ever in God's Kingdom.

Prayer to Mary is like asking someone to pray for you. She is not a mediator in the way Christ is -- there is only one true mediator. But Catholics love Mary as she is the Mother of Christ and we ask her to intercede in our prayers. Is it wrong to love the mother of God? We are imitating Christ when we do. We aren't loving her MORE than God, because only God deserves worship...but no one has ever been so close to Him as Mary...and that's why we ask her to pray for us.

I get upset when Christians disrespect Mary. Most wouldn't dream of insulting someone else's mother...how wretched to be speaking badly of Jesus' mother. How do you think Jesus feels when that happens?
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Are you saying you can have contact with her because she isn't dead? Why does the Bible forbid us to communicate with the dead? Who is considered dead and who isn't?
 
MichaelH said:
LysanderShapiro................ It's all Good, I believe I think I see why Saying Rome is the True church might be normal and without thought to what that really indicates as that is what is taught. Rome certainly does believe it's the True Church and I suspect those that follow it might be inclined to believe the same thing. Same with the hell comment, it would just be something understood as true then mentioned as part of discussion without stopping to think about what it really imply. I can understand that as every demoniation has it's own phrases and understandings true or not.

I was slain in the spirit might be something you hear around my circle with zero scripture to back that statement up. I myself avoid anything that I can't back with scripture.

Homosexuality: is the pervasive and spirit of the Antichrist. We see the warning to the churches in Asia Minor and that warning still stands to all chruches today.

Through homosexuality and free love come through pagan belief's traced back to Sodom. It's sin allowed legally and has already taken down some major denominations. A great loss would be the United Methodist Church and the Lutheran Church both brought down to nothing.

The antichrist regards no women, and through this acceptance of all things with religion stamped on it and crying of violations of human rights, this spirit is destroying the values though vain occults and religion.

Read the Warnings to the 7 churches of Asia Minor and know why those letters were included in Revelation for all to read.

Ixoye_8 is expounding above and seems right and is right. This Mother Harlot is not yet known but a base of what is to be revealed. i can promise it is not the Catholic Church or Rome.

Blessings.
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The truth is that Rome, London, and Washington dc all have the same connections all controlled by the same group the jesuits, all three have obelisks at there center, it a pagan worship to what would be there sun god, the male fertility and the female fertility, all three are independent commonwealths of the countries that they reside in, so why would these three have the same thing in common, rome controls the spiritual and deceptive part, london the money, and washington dc the military, I personally know from what Revelation says who the harlot is on the back of the beast. Believe what you want, Jesus gave us all free will, to be part of a pagan organization, I would rather choose Jesus myself, the jesuits trained adam wieshof who was the fonder of the illuminati, they are in every facet of the organization. Catholics from some studies can trace alot of there roots al the way back to nimrod the start of the babylonian empire. Do the research there is alot more.
 
I agree there were only two that were translated to heaven alive, Enoch and Elijah, Jesus body was resurrected from the dead. Mary had to do all the same things as everyone else did.
 
Sweet Pea said:
But how do you know you are supposed to do that? Who said she was sinless? Jesus is the only one who was sinless... otherwise, it wouldn't make sense.
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How do we know we are supposed to venerate and honor Mary? Well to begin, would it be a sin to do that? How are we supposed to regard the mother of God? With disrespect? With disregard?

There's a quote by St. Maximilian Kolbe; he said, “Never be afraid of loving the Blessed Virgin too much. You can never love her more than Jesus did.” He's right. And it isn't suggesting worship. I love my wife and my parents, but I don't worship them. I imagine you love your kids unconditionally, but you don't worship them -- you reserve that for God.

Mary being free of sin shouldn't be as shocking as it may seem to some. Mary was chosen by God specifically, and he found favor with her. He chose His mother. It is fitting that Christ, sinless, would be born of a woman free of sin.

Does this mean Mary didn't mean a savior? Not at all. Mary indeed needed a savior. It took God to save her from sin. Does this mean Mary had no free will? Of course not. Her obedience is a testament to her devotion and love for God.

The case for Mary is a very controversial one, even to some Catholics. Many times, for Catholic converts, one of the things they have trouble grasping is Mary and her being sinless. One of the first responses to that is usually "If God wanted to make her sinless, could He? And if He could, would He and why?"
 
LysanderShapiro said:
Mary had to do what things in order to do what?
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She was there on the day of Pentecost just as all the Apostles.

Romans 3:23-26
King James Version (KJV)

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

all have sinned.

1 John 1:10
King James Version (KJV)

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Psalm 51:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Jesus had half brothers all well, and Mary was born too a mother.
 
Sweet Pea said:
Are you saying you can have contact with her because she isn't dead? Why does the Bible forbid us to communicate with the dead? Who is considered dead and who isn't?
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Well, are we dead in heaven, or do we have eternal life with God? Indeed, Christians--ALL Christians--believe that we have everlasting in God's kingdom. And naturally, we remain part of the body of Christ in heaven. Do you believe Mary is in hell or heaven?

The Bible forbids communication with the dead. This is in regards to pagan practices, seances, and things that are NOT of God. And rightly so. We include Mary and the saints in heaven because they aren't now NOT part of the body of Christ. They are in fact now even closer to God and we ask them to pray for us just as we would ask a friend or family member to pray for us.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
How do we know we are supposed to venerate and honor Mary? Well to begin, would it be a sin to do that? How are we supposed to regard the mother of God? With disrespect? With disregard?

There's a quote by St. Maximilian Kolbe; he said, “Never be afraid of loving the Blessed Virgin too much. You can never love her more than Jesus did.” He's right. And it isn't suggesting worship. I love my wife and my parents, but I don't worship them. I imagine you love your kids unconditionally, but you don't worship them -- you reserve that for God.

Mary being free of sin shouldn't be as shocking as it may seem to some. Mary was chosen by God specifically, and he found favor with her. He chose His mother. It is fitting that Christ, sinless, would be born of a woman free of sin.

Does this mean Mary didn't mean a savior? Not at all. Mary indeed needed a savior. It took God to save her from sin. Does this mean Mary had no free will? Of course not. Her obedience is a testament to her devotion and love for God.

The case for Mary is a very controversial one, even to some Catholics. Many times, for Catholic converts, one of the things they have trouble grasping is Mary and her being sinless. One of the first responses to that is usually "If God wanted to make her sinless, could He? And if He could, would He and why?"
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She didn't need a Savior if she was free of sin.

We can respect Mary, but we don't need to pray to her.

Who do all the verses forbidding us to communicate with the dead apply to?
 
Michael B said:
She was there on the day of Pentecost just as all the Apostles.

Romans 3:23-26
King James Version (KJV)

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

all have sinned.

1 John 1:10
King James Version (KJV)

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Psalm 51:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Jesus had half brothers all well, and Mary was born too a mother.
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Are you speaking about Mary being sinless or Mary being assumed into heaven?

Let me address Mary's ever-virginity only because that's much simpler. Mary remained a virgin. The Bible talks about the brothers of Jesus, but in the written and spoken languages of the time, in Aramaic and in Greek, the word "brother" or "brethren" extended to meaning kin -- it could have meant cousin, nephew, uncle, etc. In Genesis 14:14, Lot is regarded as Abraham's brother. Two verses back, we see that Lot is actually Abraham's nephew. In Matthew 27:55-56, Jesus' cousins were remarked as the sons of a different Mary.
 
Sweet Pea said:
She didn't need a Savior if she was free of sin.

We can respect Mary, but we don't need to pray to her.

Who do all the verses forbidding us to communicate with the dead apply to?
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How could be free of sin without a savior? It would still require a savior for her to be free of sin. She wasn't a goddess.

Well we certainly don't need to have a relationship with our family members, but it's something we ought to do because it is right and just. We give honor to Mary just as we give honor to our parents or spouses.

Every verse applies to every person. The Bible is for all.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
How could be free of sin without a savior? It would still require a savior for her to be free of sin. She wasn't a goddess.

Well we certainly don't need to have a relationship with our family members, but it's something we ought to do because it is right and just. We give honor to Mary just as we give honor to our parents or spouses.

Every verse applies to every person. The Bible is for all.
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Well, if she never sinned she would go to heaven without a savior, right?

As far as the verses... if we aren't to communicate with the dead, but you say it's okay to communicate with Mary and the saints... who is it not okay to communicate with?

Sorry my replies are so hurried... baby running around... kids getting home from school at different times.
 
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