First Church?

[MichaelH]

You don't have to look too far to see all sorts of loony end times stuff coming from certain corners of Christianity. And like I described earlier, it's funny how the "spirit of the Antichrist" is invariably whatever hot button social/political issue of the day happens to be.

You don't have to look too far to see all sorts of loony end times stuff coming from certain corners of Christianity. And like I described earlier, it's funny how the "spirit of the Antichrist" is invariably whatever hot button social/political issue of the day happens to be.

John gave two conditions that are inherent to the Antichrist.

1) The Antichrist denies the Father and Son. In other words they would like to erase the son out of the picture.

2) The AntiChrist denies that Christ came in the flesh. So the Antichrist is Anti anointing are anything to destroy the anointing of God in our life.

It can be proven the Son of perdition is filled with this type of Spirit as John makes a reference to a title Antichrist and many like it in this World already.

The Spirit of the Antichrist and it's operation is clearly defined in John and seen in the lawlessness. It's not looney end time stuff and you ignorantly implied because the spirit has been around working on the earth for ages. Taking time to actually read the Scriptures would have prevented your silly comment about "End Times"

Nobody here is also responsible for what others believe, I myself back everything with scripture. If you trapped in hot social things or things that bother you I suggest you leave it alone.

Homosexuality has always been a topic, God turn Sodom over to Satan for destruction and Judgement to give on over to their delusion.

It's also the sin that has brought down several major denominations which I don't find funny as you do. Peoples well beings are at stake and I find that a very serious matter unlike yourself.

Mike.

 

[Michael B]

Are you speaking about Mary being sinless or Mary being assumed into heaven?

Let me address Mary's ever-virginity only because that's much simpler. Mary remained a virgin. The Bible talks about the brothers of Jesus, but in the written and spoken languages of the time, in Aramaic and in Greek, the word "brother" or "brethren" extended to meaning kin -- it could have meant cousin, nephew, uncle, etc. In Genesis 14:14, Lot is regarded as Abraham's brother. Two verses back, we see that Lot is actually Abraham's nephew. In Matthew 27:55-56, Jesus' cousins were remarked as the sons of a different Mary.

Hebrews 9:27-28
King James Version (KJV)

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

John 14:1-6
King James Version (KJV)

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


John 14:13-14
King James Version (KJV)

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Acts 4:12
King James Version (KJV)

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Colossians 3:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Colossians is the most direct about what it says.

 

[RosaVera]

But how do you know you are supposed to do that? Who said she was sinless? Jesus is the only one who was sinless... otherwise, it wouldn't make sense.

You may want to look at the answer that Lysander gave ... but i do think you know the answers to all your questions before you ask . But i want to thank you because by you posting these seemingly innocuous questions you give us the chance to bring out the beauty of our faith and rich it is in history and love of our Lord Jesus...

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Well, if she never sinned she would go to heaven without a savior, right?

As far as the verses... if we aren't to communicate with the dead, but you say it's okay to communicate with Mary and the saints... who is it not okay to communicate with?

Sorry my replies are so hurried... baby running around... kids getting home from school at different times.

No problem, I'm rushing my responses right now too -- making this brief.

You're missing a major point. Do you believe Heaven is a place of everlasting life or everlasting death? Also, this is not ME saying this.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Hebrews 9:27-28
King James Version (KJV)

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

John 14:1-6
King James Version (KJV)

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


John 14:13-14
King James Version (KJV)

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Acts 4:12
King James Version (KJV)

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Colossians 3:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Colossians is the most direct about what it says.

Friend, you're going to need to respond. I agree with 100% of the scriptures you provided -- we just need to go into translation and meaning.

 

[Sweet Pea]

You may want to look at the answer that Lysander gave ... but i do think you know the answers to all your questions before you ask . But i want to thank you because by you posting these seemingly innocuous questions you give us the chance to bring out the beauty of our faith and rich it is in history and love of our Lord Jesus...

I know what I think, but I want to see what a Catholic thinks to compare... hence the thread.

 

[Sweet Pea]

No problem, I'm rushing my responses right now too -- making this brief.

You're missing a major point. Do you believe Heaven is a place of everlasting life or everlasting death? Also, this is not ME saying this.

Obviously, not death, but then why would those biblical verses be given if no one is dead then?

What do you mean it's not you saying it?

 

[RosaVera]

Thank you Lysander for your patience and the love you have to explain to all about us Catholics, Roman Catholics, who are Christians, born again in Christ, and worship by choice in the Catholic church. A church of people that devote their lives to the service of our Lord, the priests and the nuns who with little pay they take on the incredible responsibility of running a church a lot of times by themselves, preaching the word of God everyday at mass, not just on Saturdays or Sundays, but everyday. Then go and bring the Eucharist to those who cannot walk to the church and anoint the sick and those that are dying.

Devotion, adoration, reverence, and love is what makes us kneel in our pews and take the Holy Sacraments, sharing in what our Lord Jesus started with the last supper, while singing psalms and worshiping our Lord and God Jesus the Christ...

 

[RosaVera]

I know what I think, but I want to see what a Catholic thinks to compare... hence the thread.

In my opinion if you truly wanted to learn you would not go and try to find disparaging articles that demean Catholics and are nothing more than that person's opinion... but you would ask graciously, which it seems you do, but you would ask and learn not ask and demean with what seems and i repeat innocuous questions... and i repeat i thank you for this thread has done more in bringing out the beauty, thanks to some wonderful posters, of my church the Roman Catholic church ... <><

 

[Sweet Pea]

In my opinion if you truly wanted to learn you would not go and try to find disparaging articles that demean Catholics and are nothing more than that person's opinion... but you would ask graciously, which it seems you do, but you would ask and learn not ask and demean with what seems and i repeat innocuous questions... and i repeat i thank you for this thread has done more in bringing out the beauty, thanks to some wonderful posters, of my church the Roman Catholic church ... <><

So, if I see something (the photos earlier) or hear about something (obelisk) and go google it, if I find something that is concerning, should I not ask about it? It seemed valid to me... I wanted to give someone who is Catholic the chance to correct the info if it is wrong... otherwise, I would assume it is correct.

You are completely misunderstanding my intentions. Instead of talking to me about the questions I have, you misinterpret my intentions and say things that are unrelated. It makes me think you do not have an answer to my questions. Am I wrong? I've asked several questions and many have gone unanswered.

 

[RiverJordan]

John gave two conditions that are inherent to the Antichrist.

1) The Antichrist denies the Father and Son. In other words they would like to erase the son out of the picture.

2) The AntiChrist denies that Christ came in the flesh.

Yep. Nothing in there about Jesuits, the UN, the Fed, gays, Obama, Nephilim/aliens or any of the other crazy crap I see all the time.

The Spirit of the Antichrist and it's operation is clearly defined in John and seen in the lawlessness. It's not looney end time stuff and you ignorantly implied because the spirit has been around working on the earth for ages. Taking time to actually read the Scriptures would have prevented your silly comment about "End Times"

I'm not saying the scriptures about the end times are loony, I'm saying some of the stuff some people have been espousing under the banner of "end times" is loony.

Homosexuality has always been a topic, God turn Sodom over to Satan for destruction and Judgement to give on over to their delusion.

So has greed, but that never seems to be fought against, especially in our modern capitalistic culture where many Christians actively celebrate it. Funny that.

It's also the sin that has brought down several major denominations which I don't find funny as you do. Peoples well beings are at stake and I find that a very serious matter unlike yourself.

1 Timothy 6:9-10 makes it clear that money is the root of all evil and greed plunges people into despair. Jesus even said in Matthew 6:24 that we cannot serve both God and money. There are many more scriptures warning about greed and what it does to people, households, and nations.

Yet I never see Christians protesting Wall St. firms, banks, or the stock markets. I never see Christians spearheading legislation to de-incentivize, or criminalize being greedy. Nope, I see the opposite. I see many Christians celebrating wealth, idolizing the rich, and generally making the case for more greed. Meanwhile, judging by Christians in the US, you'd think that homosexuality was the only real sin ever mentioned in scripture.

 

[RosaVera]

So, if I see something (the photos earlier) or hear about something (obelisk) and go google it, if I find something that is concerning, should I not ask about it? It seemed valid to me... I wanted to give someone who is Catholic the chance to correct the info if it is wrong... otherwise, I would assume it is correct.

You are completely misunderstanding my intentions. Instead of talking to me about the questions I have, you misinterpret my intentions and say things that are unrelated. It makes me think you do not have an answer to my questions. Am I wrong? I've asked several questions and many have gone unanswered.

Sweet Pea, we are all Christians and we all love our Lord, if i want to learn about Protestants, or Evangelists, or Greek Orthodox i also would ask questions and i would answer, ask again questions to clarify but would not dwell on the ugly that quite a few have brought out in pictures and words and not only that but to go and find googling additional to add to their ugliness.

Lysander is doing a great job of answering but i wonder why there is nothing he says you agree with, nor do you seem to want to understand his words, even though he has brought out beauty to the words that were ugly.

Like i said i have no problem stating who i am and what church i go and worship in , yet not many here do that but seem to hide their denomination, i wonder why, not that it is of any importance yet i see that most Catholics in this forum have no problem stating where they worship.

i wish you the best...

 

[Sweet Pea]

Sweet Pea, we are all Christians and we all love our Lord, if i want to learn about Protestants, or Evangelists, or Greek Orthodox i also would ask questions and i would answer, ask again questions to clarify but would not dwell on the ugly that quite a few have brought out in pictures and words and not only that but to go and find googling additional to add to their ugliness.

Lysander is doing a great job of answering but i wonder why there is nothing he says you agree with, nor do you seem to want to understand his words, even though he has brought out beauty to the words that were ugly.

Like i said i have no problem stating who i am and what church i go and worship in , yet not many here do that but seem to hide their denomination, i wonder why, not that it is of any importance yet i see that most Catholics in this forum have no problem stating where they worship.

i wish you the best...

I apologize if I have offended you. However, I don't feel I have said anything rude to Lysander. I have answered questions and he has politely answered many in a kind manner. I might disagree with his answer, but that does not mean I dislike him or Catholics. I think that is where you misunderstand. We can disagree. Just because he explains something to the best of his knowledge, doesn't make him correct and it doesn't mean we have to accept it. Also, just because I disagree with some things, doesn't mean I automatically disagree with everything.

The pics are very concerning. Did I miss the response about those? Also, you say not to dwell on the ugly, but I can't ignore something and just say oh well... as Christians we should all expose something that might be wrong. It doesn't matter which denomination it's in... if it's wrong, it's wrong. We can't get defensive and refuse to look at it because we are part of the denomination.

 

[RosaVera]

I apologize if I have offended you. However, I don't feel I have said anything rude to Lysander. I have answered questions and he has politely answered many in a kind manner. I might disagree with his answer, but that does not mean I dislike him or Catholics. I think that is where you misunderstand. We can disagree. Just because he explains something to the best of his knowledge, doesn't make him correct and it doesn't mean we have to accept it. Also, just because I disagree with some things, doesn't mean I automatically disagree with everything.

The pics are very concerning. Did I miss the response about those? Also, you say not to dwell on the ugly, but I can't ignore something and just say oh well... as Christians we should all expose something that might be wrong. It doesn't matter which denomination it's in... if it's wrong, it's wrong. We can't get defensive and refuse to look at it because we are part of the denomination.

Yes, as Christians we should all expose what is wrong, at the same time looking at Catholics in Africa, for that matter any Christian in Africa, for example, they sing and do things differently than us here in our country or any other country... the mass is the same, the priest does the same exact thing as any other priest world-wide but the people respond and act differently in ways that i may not understand, but they are beautiful... there are many things also that Europeans do that Americans don't understand and don't necessarily want to understand but want to bash it because it does not fit their theology of what a Christian is... these are those with mind-set that will not understand no matter how many times it is brought out to them, but it is those that watch the threads and learn in silence that see the difference between a true person of God expounding on the Word and one that is just poking the embers of division.

What they do not understand is that by trying to demean one religion because they feel they have the real truth, they are actually giving others the chance to explain the beauty of their faith, like Lysander and Ixoye and others in this forum do with patience and love .

To dwell on the ugly is not necessarily bringing out the wrongs but what it does is that it brings out the author's hate for that religion. Any religion, any person, any leader, any country can be shown to be ugly and totally against the Word of God, i don't think Evangelists or Protestant, or any other religion are totally right, but i am not going to search with all earnest for what is ugly and what some author is exposing but may not be the truth.

 

[RosaVera]

Here is something for anyone that wants to learn what Catholics are about:

If you really want to learn ...

 

[RosaVera]

 

[RosaVera]

Here is something for those that truly want to learn about Catholics:

 

[LysanderShapiro]

It's quite alright. Sweet Pea has been nothing but kind as far as I can see. She seems to be expressing the same curiosities and concerns I once held -- what many Protestants hold, and even thinking fairly.

I did my best in responding. I'm not the best at explaining certain things, and subjects like theology and scripture are especially delicate. The last thing I'd want to do is pretend I know something that I don't, lest I give a bad answer. I think Sweet Pea's questions are good questions, and they certainly don't render her anti-Catholic. I have concerns with Protestantism, but I'm not anti-Protestant -- though I disagree with the Protestant doctrine. They are still my family in Christ. My own, literal family are Protestants, extremely devout in their faith, and it was through them I came to really understand God's love.

I can only hope I am as good as my parents. I don't think they even understand how much I look up to them.

Sweet Pea, I would be happy to provide some names for you to look up -- I can only answer so much in detail. There are some incredible Catholic writers/apologists who came from Protestant backgrounds and can explain the understanding of what the Catholic Church truly teaches. It is explained in a way Protestants can grasp and find the rationale. Subjects like the Virgin Mary, purgatory, the Eucharist, statues in the Church, the Rosary -- the things that Protestants can't seem to understand how a Christian can submit to these things.

The names I recommend searching on YouTube -- each have incredible lectures from their own conversions to explanations for things Protestants would want to know about.

Scott Hahn -- a former Presbyterian minister.
Stephen Ray -- a former Baptist.
John Martignoni -- an apologist who runs the Bible Christian Society.

There are more good ones; Jimmy Akin, Tim Staples, Devin Rose.

One gentleman named Sean McVeigh has a fairly good channel where he explains Catholicism in a very, VERY simple way, mostly for Protestants who are trying to understand. His videos are great starters and fairly short.

Granted, these are only videos, albeit very good ones, but skepticism and an unwillingness to take their word for what they say is not only fair, it's valid. These would only be stepping stones into really understanding. It also takes extra research, time, and dedication to wanting to better understand it.

I'm only providing these if you are just curious as to what it means. I'm not trying to convert you. But everyone deserves to understand. Sadly, even the Catholic Church has fallen short in evangelizing. Only recently has the Church returned to this.

I hope this helps

 

[Sweet Pea]

Yes, as Christians we should all expose what is wrong, at the same time looking at Catholics in Africa, for that matter any Christian in Africa, for example, they sing and do things differently than us here in our country or any other country... the mass is the same, the priest does the same exact thing as any other priest world-wide but the people respond and act differently in ways that i may not understand, but they are beautiful... there are many things also that Europeans do that Americans don't understand and don't necessarily want to understand but want to bash it because it does not fit their theology of what a Christian is... these are those with mind-set that will not understand no matter how many times it is brought out to them, but it is those that watch the threads and learn in silence that see the difference between a true person of God expounding on the Word and one that is just poking the embers of division.

What they do not understand is that by trying to demean one religion because they feel they have the real truth, they are actually giving others the chance to explain the beauty of their faith, like Lysander and Ixoye and others in this forum do with patience and love .

To dwell on the ugly is not necessarily bringing out the wrongs but what it does is that it brings out the author's hate for that religion. Any religion, any person, any leader, any country can be shown to be ugly and totally against the Word of God, i don't think Evangelists or Protestant, or any other religion are totally right, but i am not going to search with all earnest for what is ugly and what some author is exposing but may not be the truth.

If I watched the thread in silence, I never would have started it, so there would be no discussion.

You think I'm trying to "poke at embers of division" and you also said I'm not a true person of God. Then, you go on to say I hate Catholics?

You are saying and insinuating quite ugly things about me. I'm not going to argue on a Christian forum. I will stop asking questions here because obviously that is unacceptable to certain people (you). All I can say is that it makes me wonder why you want me to stop asking (since I have done none of the things you have accused me of). I don't know if you are ashamed of something about your beliefs, but this is weird to me.

I'm done discussing this.

 

[Sweet Pea]

Lysander, thank you for your kindness. We don't have to agree on everything, but I appreciate your attitude towards me.