Growing older gracefully

Feb 10, 2015
844
997
93
Maryland
hope, unconditional love, lack of malice all sound pretty good to me. "Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” Mark 10: 15 (NIV)
These are not realy the childish things that Paul was alluding to.

In 1 Cor chapter 13, Paul was addressing the Corinthians focus on spiritual gifts, particularly those we now term charismatic.

His thesis is that as wonderful as they are, if they supercede the primary christian attribute of love, they become a distraction.

The young concentrate on themselves, the mature look for service.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rtm3039

rtm3039

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Feb 5, 2019
961
685
93
Miami, FL
These are not realy the childish things that Paul was alluding to.

In 1 Cor chapter 13, Paul was addressing the Corinthians focus on spiritual gifts, particularly those we now term charismatic.

His thesis is that as wonderful as they are, if they supercede the primary christian attribute of love, they become a distraction.

The young concentrate on themselves, the mature look for service.
Ok, I’ve dug a little deeper into Mark 10:15. Obviously, this can me misunderstood to mean that children are free of sin, which we know is not actually true. What it means, to my understanding, it that acting like children is the ability to believe that God’s clarity is not something we legally or spiritually deserve. One study notes that “when presented with a great gift” children accept it “gratefully and unselfconsciously.” In this context, all children want to do with this gift is enjoy it. I see that in my grandkids all the time. Give my 3 y/o grandson a puzzle and what you get is a smile, some jumping around, and he goes right to the floor to put it together. He gets it done, breaks it apart, and does it again. In summary, receiving His gift is not associated with what we do, but how we love Him and believe in His love for us. It is this “child like” acceptance of the Lord that brings us closer to what He wants of us, “ for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose” (Philippians 2:13, NIV).
 
Sep 3, 2009
12,058
4,644
113
Florida
No, these one's are a bit larger.

The main point I was making it that, while I have obviously grown older, I really have no changed much. Yes, I am slower, parts of me hurt a bit, but I have been blessed with a steady like that has not changes all that much. Well, except having five children, five grandchildren, a wife, and many years of experience.
Ray......my personal observations of people is that when they get older, they are pretty much what they were when they were younger.

The old grumpy man who argues today at 80 did the same thing at 30.

The old woman who starts rumors at 80 did the same thing at 30.

Yes, sometimes health issues such as cancer or arthritus and such cause changes in personality but not as much as we like to think that they do.

We just tend to remember the extremes of good and bad.
 
Sep 3, 2009
12,058
4,644
113
Florida
When I was 20, I wore blue jeans, listed to Kansas, and made a living chasing "bad guys." I am now 60, I wear blue jeans, listen to Kansas, and go around chasing "bad guys." Back then, I jumped over fences and would rather fight than talk. Now I tend to walk around fences and would rather talk than fight.
When I was 20 I combed and styled my hair.

Today I am just glad to see any looking back at me in the mirror.
 
Sep 3, 2009
12,058
4,644
113
Florida
Ok, I’ve dug a little deeper into Mark 10:15. Obviously, this can me misunderstood to mean that children are free of sin, which we know is not actually true. What it means, to my understanding, it that acting like children is the ability to believe that God’s clarity is not something we legally or spiritually deserve. One study notes that “when presented with a great gift” children accept it “gratefully and unselfconsciously.” In this context, all children want to do with this gift is enjoy it. I see that in my grandkids all the time. Give my 3 y/o grandson a puzzle and what you get is a smile, some jumping around, and he goes right to the floor to put it together. He gets it done, breaks it apart, and does it again. In summary, receiving His gift is not associated with what we do, but how we love Him and believe in His love for us. It is this “child like” acceptance of the Lord that brings us closer to what He wants of us, “ for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose” (Philippians 2:13, NIV).
How does Mark 10:15 tell us how to receive the kingdom of God as a little child?

IMPO the reference is to well-behaved, normal, loving children; and the qualities in view are: trustfulness, humility, obedience, spontaneity, forgetfulness of injury, slight, or hurt, and a total lack of prejudice.
 
Sep 3, 2009
12,058
4,644
113
Florida
Maybe its referring to the previous verses, speaking in tongues, prophecy, givng gifts to feed the poor,and bodies to be burned ?! But charity never fails. Or some versions say love.

A child has an incomplete understanding of God. But they have a hunger for God to depend on him unlike an adult who may be self sufficient. I think it means when you finish your discipleship and graduate to apostleship ie. start ministering.

For example, Peter acted very childishly and often cowardly and rashly when he was following Jesus. But after Jesus was crucified and rose again, then told Peter to feed my sheep and my lambs, Peter became bold and on fire for God...and he healed many people and could testify. Cos through it all was he was showing Gods love.

Also he went and ate with the gentiles even though his religious upbringing was to stay apart from the gentiles.
Correct!

The "sign" gifts were given by Jesus to the apostles Temporarily so that the New Test. Bible could be written. The apostle had all of the sign gifts but when they died, the New Test. was completed and then those Temporary gifts given to the apostles ended. There was then no need to speak in different dialects or receive words of knowledge as God gave to THEM what to place into the Word of God.

Mark 16:14-18......
"Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

"Them that believe "- Were The apostles, and those in that age who were endowed with like power by those Apostles, such as was Stephen.

1 Corth 13:8-10..........
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. "
 
Dec 19, 2014
5,696
2,431
113
New Zealand
www.literatelibrarian.com
I dont think it ended because christians today are still given gifts such as tongues and words of knowledge...me included.
And we lay hands on people and they are healed.

The drinking deadly poison I wouldnt deliberately risk it, but I know some people who did and they survived. I used to be on the kind of drugs that would kill me, I wasnt drinking them but they had a load of toxic side effects. God helped me get through that. They were given by doctors who didnt know any better. They didnt know God.

'Them that believe' refers to the 'whoseoever believes' in the previous verse. It doesnt just mean the apostles.
 
Dec 19, 2014
5,696
2,431
113
New Zealand
www.literatelibrarian.com
What would happen is they gave me some drugs in little seed packets, bevause if they gave me the whole lot at once, like the whole packet, I could have swallowed them all and it would have killed me, other patients on them deliberately took them all at once and ended up dying. They would take them if they didnt want to live. Or at least have their stomach pumped. Also they caused birth defects, which is probably why to this day I dont have children of my own. They didnt warn you though when they said take these drugs.
 
Dec 19, 2014
5,696
2,431
113
New Zealand
www.literatelibrarian.com
Hmm so as for growing older gracefully do none of you think Jesus Christ has the power to change people and change the grumpy man or gossipy woman?

Im a bit surprised about that. I think Jesus Christ has the power to change anyone.
 

rtm3039

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Feb 5, 2019
961
685
93
Miami, FL
Hmm so as for growing older gracefully do none of you think Jesus Christ has the power to change people and change the grumpy man or gossipy woman?

Im a bit surprised about that. I think Jesus Christ has the power to change anyone.
Lanolin, of course He can, but we have to be (in most cases) a willing participant in out transformation.

My dad is a good example, but I am not sure of what. He was not even close to the best father, or husband, anyone could have. Very self-centered. Later on in life, by mom developed Alzheimer's. In response to that, and during most of her last 10 or so years of life, he dedicated every moment of his life to taking care of her. I saw my dad transform from a something not so nice to a carrying and loving human being.

Now, my dad was not a Christian. As a non-practicing Roman Catholic, he did have his "last rights," but he was not a man of faith. So, I do not know what caused his change, but something did.
 
Last edited:
Dec 19, 2014
5,696
2,431
113
New Zealand
www.literatelibrarian.com
Lanolin, of course He can, but we have to be (in most cases) a willing participant in out transformation.

My dad is a good example, but I am not sure of what. He was not even close to the best father, or husband, anyone could have. Very self-centered. Later on in life, by mom developed Alzheimer's. In response to that, and during most of her last 10 or so years of life, he dedicated every moment of his life to taking care of her. I saw my dad transform from a something not so nice to a carrying and loving human being.

Now, my dad was not a Christian. As a non-practicing Roman Catholic, he did have his "last rights," but he was not a man of faith. So, I do not know what caused his change, but something did.
Interesting. I dont know what your dad got taught in roman catholicsm but supposedly something got triggered. catholics do believe in Jesus even if some dont 'practice' whatever that means.

I would say he probably saw the light and acted out his faith in the Lord. Just attending church every week doesnt necessarily make you a christian. To look after your spouse when they are old and cant look after themselves requires some faith dont you think? He could have just paid someone else to look after her. Most people would call that love and honoring ones wife as promised in marriage vows in sickness and in health. A lot of people dont do that these days. They would just say its too hard and call for euthansasia etc.
 

rtm3039

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Feb 5, 2019
961
685
93
Miami, FL
Interesting. I dont know what your dad got taught in roman catholicsm but supposedly something got triggered. catholics do believe in Jesus even if some dont 'practice' whatever that means.

I would say he probably saw the light and acted out his faith in the Lord. Just attending church every week doesnt necessarily make you a christian. To look after your spouse when they are old and cant look after themselves requires some faith dont you think? He could have just paid someone else to look after her. Most people would call that love and honoring ones wife as promised in marriage vows in sickness and in health. A lot of people dont do that these days. They would just say its too hard and call for euthansasia etc.
"call for euthansasia?" Prettty sure that does not happen all that often, unless you are taking care of your cat.
 

Pastor Gary

Senior Moderator and Staff Trainer
Staff member
Senior Moderator
Staff Trainer
Oct 29, 2006
21,006
8,115
113
Several US locations - seasonally
Staff Reminder: Physician assisted life termination laws vary greatly all over the world. What may be considered legal and acceptable in one country may be totally unlawful in another country.
 
Sep 3, 2009
12,058
4,644
113
Florida
I dont think it ended because christians today are still given gifts such as tongues and words of knowledge...me included.
And we lay hands on people and they are healed.

The drinking deadly poison I wouldnt deliberately risk it, but I know some people who did and they survived. I used to be on the kind of drugs that would kill me, I wasnt drinking them but they had a load of toxic side effects. God helped me get through that. They were given by doctors who didnt know any better. They didnt know God.

'Them that believe' refers to the 'whoseoever believes' in the previous verse. It doesnt just mean the apostles.
We all have opinions but in fact the only thing that matters is what God's Word says.

1 Corinthians 13:8-10 is about as clear as anything we can grasp...……….
"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the PERFECT comes, what is in part disappears."

The "Perfect" in the original Greek grammar is Neuter which grammatically means that the Perfect/Completeness can only be a THING and not a person.

That being said, there are only TWO things that can be Perfect........Jesus Christ and the Word of God/Bible.

Since the GRAMMAR demands a THING then the Perfect in the Scripture means the Bible. When the Bible was completed/COMPLETE the temporary sign gifts given only to the Apostles end just as the Scriptures tell us.

Mark 16:14.........
"Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues, they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

That is a package gift. If you can do ONE you can do all of them and the Apostles are the ONLY ONES who could and did. ".

ONLY the Apostle, the ELEVEN were given the Sign gifts and when they died the gifts ended as the Bible was completed.
 
Sep 3, 2009
12,058
4,644
113
Florida
Hmm so as for growing older gracefully do none of you think Jesus Christ has the power to change people and change the grumpy man or gossipy woman?

Im a bit surprised about that. I think Jesus Christ has the power to change anyone.
The OLD nature never goes away until we die. As we grow older we can no longer control what happens in our minds as we could when we were younger.

Medications to keep us alive all have side effects. The LACK of meds causes the same thing. We want to do good and we want to be sweet and nice but it is just not possible to keep it up as we age.

Yes, some do and they are a real blessing but it is not a universal happening...….that I have witnessed.

When you get older, I think you will understand the problem.
 
Dec 19, 2014
5,696
2,431
113
New Zealand
www.literatelibrarian.com
The OLD nature never goes away until we die. As we grow older we can no longer control what happens in our minds as we could when we were younger.

Medications to keep us alive all have side effects. The LACK of meds causes the same thing. We want to do good and we want to be sweet and nice but it is just not possible to keep it up as we age.

Yes, some do and they are a real blessing but it is not a universal happening...….that I have witnessed.

When you get older, I think you will understand the problem.
Thats just your opinion.

Nothing is impossible with God. Sorry major, I have witnessed changes in people that only the Lord can do. If you havent seen a miracle then you are due for one. I will pray for you.

May He open your eyes.
 
Dec 19, 2014
5,696
2,431
113
New Zealand
www.literatelibrarian.com
I remmeber in the Bible that Paul wasnt one of the original twelve and he was given gifts, and this was passed down to Timothy.

Check out letter to Timothy 1 Timothy 4:14

Another is Titus. Our God is a generous God who gives gifts to all who believe. Some people just dont bother to open their gifts thats all. They hide it in the ground and then try and say well nobody else got them cos I dont use them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pastor Mayende.
Sep 3, 2009
12,058
4,644
113
Florida
Thats just your opinion.

Nothing is impossible with God. Sorry major, I have witnessed changes in people that only the Lord can do. If you havent seen a miracle then you are due for one. I will pray for you.

May He open your eyes.
I do not think this thread is about miracles or what I have seen or need to see.

In YOUR original post #1 you asked...………..
"Do you believe as you grow older that you become kinder or wiser, or do you believe as people get older they just become crankier and grumpy? "

YOUR question calls for an opinion my dear sister.

Now why would you then question whether or not I gave my opinion because what I posted was indeed my opinion which is exactly what you ASKED for?????
 
Last edited:
Sep 3, 2009
12,058
4,644
113
Florida
I remmeber in the Bible that Paul wasnt one of the original twelve and he was given gifts, and this was passed down to Timothy.

Check out letter to Timothy 1 Timothy 4:14

Another is Titus. Our God is a generous God who gives gifts to all who believe. Some people just dont bother to open their gifts thats all. They hide it in the ground and then try and say well nobody else got them cos I dont use them.
Paul was visited personally by the Lord Jesus Christ and was commissioned by Christ just as were the other 11.

Do be an apostle, a man had to be PERSONALLY involved with Jesus from the beginning.

On repeated occasions, the apostles gave witness of their personal observations of Jesus, making such statements as, in Acts 10:39-40......
“We are witnesses of everything Jesus did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen” .

While Paul never claimed to be included among the original twelve, believers have recognized that Jesus appointed him as His special apostle to the Gentiles in Gal. 1:1; 1 Corth. 9:1; Acts 26:16-18.

You mention Titus and Timothy and Stephen could be included and There are others in the early church referred to as “apostles” as seen in Acts 14:4, Romans 16:7 and 1 Thess. 2:6----
but they are only in the sense that they were appointed, authorized, and sent by churches on special errands.
These individuals bore the title “apostle” in a limited sense and did not possess all the qualifications of apostleship that the original twelve and Paul did because they simply did not meet the requirements to be an apostle which I already listed above.


How do YOU understand this Scripture.????

1 Corth. 13:8-10...……….
"Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away."