Growing older gracefully

Dec 19, 2014
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Anyway am not talking about things such as downsizing etc.

But how people become more graceful as they grow older. I think it can only come from God, as He gives us His grace. I know that I am still alive by the grace of God! So it makes me thankful. I also think family is important to me. While independece is often touted as the be all and end all so that everyone can just live by themselves, reality is that we all need each other. No man is an island.
 

rtm3039

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Retirement homes.
They cant continue living in the homes where they raised children. Because their children leave and then they cant cope maintaining a home. And people are too busy to live with them.
Maybe its because Florida is flat and friendly to retirees. I dont know.

You have got to stop thinking your country is everyone elses country. It doesnt rule the world. I am basing my observations on what I experience in my country and if i do refer to yours I will say so. I was talking about people in LA..its not necessarily meaning everyone. People in holllywood that are old and wealthy retire in places like Palm Springs thats what I heard.

In nz there are entire towns where its retirees. But the new trend is that retirees want to stay with their families not move far away, which is why apartments are being built for them. Although having said that, many of the new apartments I worked in where occupied by rich retirees coming over from the UK.

Urban Retirees that move to their own lifestyle block in the country are kinda setting themselves up for isolation I think and dont really think how it will be when they cant drive anymore should anything happen to them. They kind of just thought it would be a long holiday but its actually MORE work maintaining a large property for just two people.
I can only based my opinions on what I know. But, since you were talking about "LA," I assume you meant the LA in this country, right? You describe a world I know nothing about. I am Hispanic and we do not discard our elderly family members. Both my parents lived with me, until they died. Around here, since Miami is largely Hispanic, most elderly people live with their children and take an active part in the family unit.

Not really sure why you are fixated on Hollywood, CA. This is a town that is only 3.5 square miles (9.1 square kilometers). It has a population of around 85,000 and about 92% of the people there rent. Taking into account the unique nature of this town, it is not an accurate representation of anything.
 

rtm3039

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Elderly or senior citizens generally refers to people over 65 years. That is the age they can receive the pension, and the age that we younger people can access our savings (called kiwisaver in my country)
Lanolin,

This kiwisaver is kind of like our Social Security (kind of, but not really). We can apply for these benefits at age 62; however, full retirement depends on when you were born. For me, it's 66 years and 10 months. Also, if you wait until you are 70, the amount you get back greatly increases. For us, this is a supplemental to our retirement and hopefully people have also invested in a work base retirement plan or a private plan. Few people, that rely only on Social Security, can make it on their own. The amount you end up getting depended on many variables, to include the age you start collecting and the average yearly salary you had over the many years that you have worked. The max you can get, at 70, is $3,770. If you retire right at the retirement age (66), the max is $2,861 (4038.02 NZD).

Here, in the Kingdom of the United States, about 15.6% of people are 65 or older. This is expected to increase greatly. Of this population, about 20% work past 65 (10.5 million). I am actually a bit surprised it's only 20%. I guess this all depends on what you do and your health. For me, work is not actually work, as I really enjoy what I do. It is not physically demanding (no heavy lifting) and I consider it more "run" than "work."

The decision on where to retire, again, here in the Kingdom, depends on many variables. While the wife and I live in Miami, FL, we are NOT going to retire here. My wife has a large family that lives in Memphis, TN. Three of our five kids like in Missouri (which is right next door). We will be relocating to Memphis (Good Lord willing) for several reasons: The state does not tax military retirement, the cost of living is really low, we have family there (mostly the wife's) and the medium income is much lower than it is here. Also, I am 7 years older than the wife, so we will move to Memphis when I retire, but she will just relocate and be a teacher there. Even when I do "officially" retire, do not plan on actually retiring. Again, good Lord willing, I will probably teach as an adjunct or do some "side job" as a consultant. The bottom line is that it is all up to God and I just get to go along.

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Dec 19, 2014
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I can only based my opinions on what I know. But, since you were talking about "LA," I assume you meant the LA in this country, right? You describe a world I know nothing about. I am Hispanic and we do not discard our elderly family members. Both my parents lived with me, until they died. Around here, since Miami is largely Hispanic, most elderly people live with their children and take an active part in the family unit.

Not really sure why you are fixated on Hollywood, CA. This is a town that is only 3.5 square miles (9.1 square kilometers). It has a population of around 85,000 and about 92% of the people there rent. Taking into account the unique nature of this town, it is not an accurate representation of anything.
Im just saying because LA or hollywood is where most of the movies and tv in america are made or produced, which is what most people actually see on screen. Its supposed to represent american life. But its actually only a glamourised version of it and as such is totally unrealistic.

If you know anything about nz it might be because you saw it either on TV or a movie.

I think the only movies or tv made about older people in america where programs like golden girls or driving miss daisy.

I always thought that the retirment village I worked in Would make a great tv drama series since so much drama happened in it. People have this idea that older people dont have much interesting lives. Probably perpetuated by screen stereotypes that favour the young and glamourise and unwrinkled. This is the town in which people get botox cos they scared of wrinkles and where they dye their hair cos they ashamed of it going grey.
 
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Lanolin,

This kiwisaver is kind of like our Social Security (kind of, but not really). We can apply for these benefits at age 62; however, full retirement depends on when you were born. For me, it's 66 years and 10 months. Also, if you wait until you are 70, the amount you get back greatly increases. For us, this is a supplemental to our retirement and hopefully people have also invested in a work base retirement plan or a private plan. Few people, that rely only on Social Security, can make it on their own. The amount you end up getting depended on many variables, to include the age you start collecting and the average yearly salary you had over the many years that you have worked. The max you can get, at 70, is $3,770. If you retire right at the retirement age (66), the max is $2,861 (4038.02 NZD).

Here, in the Kingdom of the United States, about 15.6% of people are 65 or older. This is expected to increase greatly. Of this population, about 20% work past 65 (10.5 million). I am actually a bit surprised it's only 20%. I guess this all depends on what you do and your health. For me, work is not actually work, as I really enjoy what I do. It is not physically demanding (no heavy lifting) and I consider it more "run" than "work."

The decision on where to retire, again, here in the Kingdom, depends on many variables. While the wife and I live in Miami, FL, we are NOT going to retire here. My wife has a large family that lives in Memphis, TN. Three of our five kids like in Missouri (which is right next door). We will be relocating to Memphis (Good Lord willing) for several reasons: The state does not tax military retirement, the cost of living is really low, we have family there (mostly the wife's) and the medium income is much lower than it is here. Also, I am 7 years older than the wife, so we will move to Memphis when I retire, but she will just relocate and be a teacher there. Even when I do "officially" retire, do not plan on actually retiring. Again, good Lord willing, I will probably teach as an adjunct or do some "side job" as a consultant. The bottom line is that it is all up to God and I just get to go along.

View attachment 4355
Lol I never heard of the United States referred to as a Kingdom. Isnt that treason to your President? Next thing you know you will be wanting to join up with Canada.
 

rtm3039

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Lol I never heard of the United States referred to as a Kingdom. Isnt that treason to your President? Next thing you know you will be wanting to join up with Canada.
Good morning Lanolin, I get what you are saying.

For the record, while this was not the case many years ago, today hardly no TV or movies are actually filmed in Hollywood or California. Most are not filmed at locations throughout the world and/or other states. As for movies about older people, there are countless made about "older people:" Off the top of my head and movies that I've seen lately are. All of these are about people dealing with getting old:

The bucket list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bucket_List)
Space cowboys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Cowboys)
Somethings gotta give (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something's_Gotta_Give_(film)
Grand Torino (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Torino)
Unforgiven (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unforgiven)
Heartbreak Ridge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartbreak_Ridge)
Trouble with the curve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trouble_with_the_Curve)
 
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rtm3039

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Thanks for info RTM although the figures are going right over my head at the moment.

So...do you think the Lord will help you grow older gracefully? I sure hope so for myself.
Lanolin, that is a very very good question. I sure hope so, but I am not sure. This will be something I will ask God to guide me through.

Keep in mind that I have lived a life that has required me to be very aggressive. All I have ever done is either serve in the military or work in law enforcement. As a result, I naturally take change. I am now 60 and, by the grace of God, am still doing what I do. My kids, who are all in their late 20s or early 30s, still come to be for advise or to "fix" what they have broken. Just yesterday, I spent a couple of hours talking with my oldest son, who seldom makes a career move without first calling and asking me for my opinion.

While at present I am who I have always been, I know that there will come a day when age will require me to become someone else. When the day comes when my age (or health) will be the reason I cannot do something, I really do not know how I will deal with it. Being humble has never come easy for me (still unable to differentiate between being humble and being confident). Last year, I took on a position where I was not the person in charge. Up until then, I have been the person in charge and it has been like that since early 1987. I just thought it was time to let someone else be in charge. I am enjoying not being in charge, but turns out that I still kind of am. My supervisor is a fantastic person and just turned 35. She instinctively asks for my opinion and, when she is not around, keeps asking me to represent the office at meetings. I am good with that; however, there are two other people who have been with my agency much longer than I have, but just don't show any desire to step up to the plate.

Anyway, I could go on for a while, but 8:00 AM is coming soon and I need to get ready for church. The bottom line is that I do pray for the ability of growing old gracefully, but I am still working on what that actually means. So, I first ask the Lord for the wisdom of knowing what growing old gracefully means and then the strength of doing it.

rtm3039
 
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I know as people grow older, they may start losing their vision or hearing.
As someone who reads lots, maybe I will need Large print books or listen to audio books.

I am also an active gardener. I know when people get older, they cant bend down as much. I dont tend to bend down like I see other doing I safe my back and squat. Raised garden beds and pots are used by elderly to save their backs.

Another thing is bath time, I love my bath time, but I know when people get older they maybfind it hard to get in and out of the bath. Some kit out their bathrooms with handles and non slip mats, or have walk in showers.

This is just the physical aspect of things. But i do know if you keep your joints well oiled, thins like athritis arent a problem. I learned this when I was on drugs that dried out my nerve endings and affected my joints. i felt so old!

In terms of character when people grow older they either forget the bad times or hold on to them. i had many bad times wehn I was younger but I have learned to deal with them and let go of them. Nobody should have to deal with my baggage of the past which stays in the past. So I make the effort to look forward to each new day, cos I know ive been forgiven . Thank you Lord for helping me.
 
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An interesting books on what its like to be an young person in an old persons body is ones by Hayley Okines.
She had a rare disorder that meant her body aged seven times as fast.
She passed away a few years ago but its really interesting to read her perspective on life.
 

rtm3039

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I know as people grow older, they may start losing their vision or hearing.
As someone who reads lots, maybe I will need Large print books or listen to audio books.

I am also an active gardener. I know when people get older, they cant bend down as much. I dont tend to bend down like I see other doing I safe my back and squat. Raised garden beds and pots are used by elderly to save their backs.

Another thing is bath time, I love my bath time, but I know when people get older they maybfind it hard to get in and out of the bath. Some kit out their bathrooms with handles and non slip mats, or have walk in showers.

This is just the physical aspect of things. But i do know if you keep your joints well oiled, thins like athritis arent a problem. I learned this when I was on drugs that dried out my nerve endings and affected my joints. i felt so old!

In terms of character when people grow older they either forget the bad times or hold on to them. i had many bad times wehn I was younger but I have learned to deal with them and let go of them. Nobody should have to deal with my baggage of the past which stays in the past. So I make the effort to look forward to each new day, cos I know ive been forgiven . Thank you Lord for helping me.
I guess one thing that has changed is how I "work out." I use to enjoy pushing myself to the point of utter exhaustion. I would push myself until I had nothing left to give. Don't do that anymore. I recall attending one school (Air Assault course: https://www.goarmy.com/soldier-life/being-a-soldier/ongoing-training/specialized-schools/air-assault.html) where I lost 12 pounds (5.4 kilograms) in one afternoon. That would probably kill me now, but it sure was fun them. :)

rtm3039
 
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I guess one thing that has changed is how I "work out." I use to enjoy pushing myself to the point of utter exhaustion. I would push myself until I had nothing left to give. Don't do that anymore. I recall attending one school (Air Assault course: https://www.goarmy.com/soldier-life/being-a-soldier/ongoing-training/specialized-schools/air-assault.html) where I lost 12 pounds (5.4 kilograms) in one afternoon. That would probably kill me now, but it sure was fun them. :)

rtm3039
Rtm question about military life, was it compulsory for you? How old were you when you joined and do people stay in for life? Do many females join or it it too physically demanding for them? Is it really dangerous?
I once considerd a librarians job in the airforce but I didnt really think It was my calling. I think they needed librarians for their archives and history books and also just general reading, esp since they go away for long periods of time and need books to read. They also need a lot of on the ground aupport staff and chaplains.
 

rtm3039

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Rtm question about military life, was it compulsory for you? How old were you when you joined and do people stay in for life? Do many females join or it it too physically demanding for them? Is it really dangerous?
I once considerd a librarians job in the airforce but I didnt really think It was my calling. I think they needed librarians for their archives and history books and also just general reading, esp since they go away for long periods of time and need books to read. They also need a lot of on the ground aupport staff and chaplains.
OK Lanolin, here we go:

No it is not compulsory. It was up until Viet Nam, but the "draft" ended in 1973 (No, I am not old enough to have served in Viet Nam, but Major and several others here did). However, every male, by the age of 18, has to register with what we call the "Selective Service." No one is forced to serve, but this list is for males between 18 and 26 and would be used if we had another major war and did not have enough volunteers. Females do not register; however, if you are a male and you do not register, you are unable to seek any jobs with any government agency (federal, state, or county). No student loans and you can end up doing 5 years in prison and fined $250,000.00.

I was 18 when I enlisted, but, had my parents signed a permission document, I would have gone in at 17. Since I enlisted, I did not have to register with the Selective Service.

I originally was only going to do three years and get out; however, I just fell in love with the military life style and stayed 25 years. At present, about 17% of people who enter the military stay until retirement. No one actually stays in for "life," but at least 20 years (minimum requirement to be able to retire). Like I said, I did 25 and retired at the age of 43.

There are more men (80%) in the military than females (20%). The number of females depends on which of the four branches of the military you are talking about: According to the Defense Department, women now make up 20 percent of the Air Force, 19 percent of the Navy, 15 percent of the Army and almost 9 percent of the Marine Corps.

Yes, it is physically demanding, but I have known some really "bad a**" women in the military. I knew one female that was on a 25 mile force march. About half-way, she became severely dehydrated. She had the medics stick an IV in her arm, strap the bag of solution to her ruck sack and she finished the march.

How dangerous depends on what you do in the military. If you are a cook, not so much. If you are in the infantry, pretty much. To date, women are not allowed to serve in the infantry, but that will change. They do serve as fighter pilots, military police, and other "combat support" positions which are no walk in the park. Obviously, we have been at war since 2001, so that is dangerous. However, that too depends. Since 2001, we have lost over 6,200 members of the military. In 2018 alone, 36,750 people died in traffic accidents in the US. Personally, if I had the choice of meeting the Lord in combat or after a traffic accident, I will go with the former and not the latter.

There is a very high percentage of suicides in the military. A new report shows that 20.6 military personnel commit suicides every day (I have had several friends end their lives like this). Of those, 16.8 are veterans and 3.8 are active-duty servicemembers, guardsmen and reservists. That amounts to 6,132 veterans and 1,387 servicemembers who died by suicide in one year. For several years, I suffered from what is known as "post retirement depression." It is hard to explain, unless you have been there, but being in the military is an incredible experience. You are surrounded by people that would not have an issue dying for you or next to you. In the military, words like "Honor, Integrity, Courage, Loyalty" actually mean something. None of this is available in the "civilian" world where it is all about "you" and not about "us." It takes a while to adjust to the "outside" world and that only happens once you embrace the sad reality that you will never feel the same as you did when you wore a uniform and served with complete commitment to what you were asked to do and those you did it with you.

Well, hope I answered all your questions. At the end of this, there is both good and bad news. It is 13 minutes past midnight here in Miami, so it is Veteran's Day; that's the good news. The bad news is that by the time I read your response tomorrow, at least 10 of my brothers and sisters will have taken their own lives because we have no mechanism available to prevent this. Oh, I should note that only around 4% of this country actually serve in the military, but the other 96% get tomorrow off too :)

rtm3039
CW4, US Army (Retired)
 
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Thanks for info rtm I never knew. I do know some workmates said they were in the navy or army but they didnt stay there, and none of my family were ever in it. I do know that back in the day it was kinda compulsory.
We have RSA (returned services association) for veterans and they operate restaurants or pubs for members and they have all sorts of gatherings for cheap meals you can eat there if you know someone as a member.

I dont think nz is at war with anyone officially its more of a peace keeping force and also do things like search and rescue and I suppose keeping up defence. Not so much combat because we dont have the numbers and we dont have the weapons. Of course because the US has nuclear power and bombs a lot of countries are actually afraid of them, and dont want to engage with them at all. But I think if they did extend diplomacy you might find others have more in common than you think. Make friends not enemies.

I was just thinking of the situation of North and South Korea and how the US, who are involved there and indirectly responsible for the DMZ and division, arent really helping matters. Those tiny country that really needs to be united rather than split in two just because of russia and US fighting over whos bigger. I mean really. Sorry if being outspoken but do they truly care about the Korean people? I have made friends with several from Korea and they are lovely people. They dont deserve to have their country split in two.
 
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Thw workmate that was in the army really pushed himself hard I noticed. It was a bit crazy. He would treat work like a bootcamp. Maybe he was trying to prove something. But then the other one was really gentle and was like the complete opposite.

I think you do need to be gentle rather than hard on yourself, especially as you get older. That doesnt mean dont challenge yourself but dont beat yourself up either. If you cant do something you could ordinarily do you sometimes have to learn there are other ways of doing things. Or smarter ways.
 

rtm3039

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Thanks for info rtm I never knew. I do know some workmates said they were in the navy or army but they didnt stay there, and none of my family were ever in it. I do know that back in the day it was kinda compulsory.
We have RSA (returned services association) for veterans and they operate restaurants or pubs for members and they have all sorts of gatherings for cheap meals you can eat there if you know someone as a member.

I dont think nz is at war with anyone officially its more of a peace keeping force and also do things like search and rescue and I suppose keeping up defence. Not so much combat because we dont have the numbers and we dont have the weapons. Of course because the US has nuclear power and bombs a lot of countries are actually afraid of them, and dont want to engage with them at all. But I think if they did extend diplomacy you might find others have more in common than you think. Make friends not enemies.

I was just thinking of the situation of North and South Korea and how the US, who are involved there and indirectly responsible for the DMZ and division, arent really helping matters. Those tiny country that really needs to be united rather than split in two just because of russia and US fighting over whos bigger. I mean really. Sorry if being outspoken but do they truly care about the Korean people? I have made friends with several from Korea and they are lovely people. They dont deserve to have their country split in two.
Ok Lanolin, we (US) are not "indirectly responsible" for the DMZ, we are the DMZ (demilitarize zone). The DMZ is a buffer zone to prevent North Korea from invading south Korea. It appears you might not sully understand the circumstances at play here. North Korea is a communist country and south Korea is not. It's not a battle over who is bigger (US or Russia), but about Communism and north Korea's desire to take over their neighbor. There is no co-existence between communism and capitalism.

There are nine countries with nuclear weapons. Granted, we are the only country that has ever used them, but we spend a great deal of time trying to prevent other less stable governments from developing the technology. Further, there really are few, if any, counties that fear us. Some should, but few do.

rtm3039
 
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OK Lanolin, here we go:

No it is not compulsory. It was up until Viet Nam, but the "draft" ended in 1973 (No, I am not old enough to have served in Viet Nam, but Major and several others here did). However, every male, by the age of 18, has to register with what we call the "Selective Service." No one is forced to serve, but this list is for males between 18 and 26 and would be used if we had another major war and did not have enough volunteers. Females do not register; however, if you are a male and you do not register, you are unable to seek any jobs with any government agency (federal, state, or county). No student loans and you can end up doing 5 years in prison and fined $250,000.00.

I was 18 when I enlisted, but, had my parents signed a permission document, I would have gone in at 17. Since I enlisted, I did not have to register with the Selective Service.

I originally was only going to do three years and get out; however, I just fell in love with the military life style and stayed 25 years. At present, about 17% of people who enter the military stay until retirement. No one actually stays in for "life," but at least 20 years (minimum requirement to be able to retire). Like I said, I did 25 and retired at the age of 43.

There are more men (80%) in the military than females (20%). The number of females depends on which of the four branches of the military you are talking about: According to the Defense Department, women now make up 20 percent of the Air Force, 19 percent of the Navy, 15 percent of the Army and almost 9 percent of the Marine Corps.

Yes, it is physically demanding, but I have known some really "bad a**" women in the military. I knew one female that was on a 25 mile force march. About half-way, she became severely dehydrated. She had the medics stick an IV in her arm, strap the bag of solution to her ruck sack and she finished the march.

How dangerous depends on what you do in the military. If you are a cook, not so much. If you are in the infantry, pretty much. To date, women are not allowed to serve in the infantry, but that will change. They do serve as fighter pilots, military police, and other "combat support" positions which are no walk in the park. Obviously, we have been at war since 2001, so that is dangerous. However, that too depends. Since 2001, we have lost over 6,200 members of the military. In 2018 alone, 36,750 people died in traffic accidents in the US. Personally, if I had the choice of meeting the Lord in combat or after a traffic accident, I will go with the former and not the latter.

There is a very high percentage of suicides in the military. A new report shows that 20.6 military personnel commit suicides every day (I have had several friends end their lives like this). Of those, 16.8 are veterans and 3.8 are active-duty servicemembers, guardsmen and reservists. That amounts to 6,132 veterans and 1,387 servicemembers who died by suicide in one year. For several years, I suffered from what is known as "post retirement depression." It is hard to explain, unless you have been there, but being in the military is an incredible experience. You are surrounded by people that would not have an issue dying for you or next to you. In the military, words like "Honor, Integrity, Courage, Loyalty" actually mean something. None of this is available in the "civilian" world where it is all about "you" and not about "us." It takes a while to adjust to the "outside" world and that only happens once you embrace the sad reality that you will never feel the same as you did when you wore a uniform and served with complete commitment to what you were asked to do and those you did it with you.

Well, hope I answered all your questions. At the end of this, there is both good and bad news. It is 13 minutes past midnight here in Miami, so it is Veteran's Day; that's the good news. The bad news is that by the time I read your response tomorrow, at least 10 of my brothers and sisters will have taken their own lives because we have no mechanism available to prevent this. Oh, I should note that only around 4% of this country actually serve in the military, but the other 96% get tomorrow off too :)

rtm3039
CW4, US Army (Retired)
Happy Veterans day my brother!
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Ok Lanolin, we (US) are not "indirectly responsible" for the DMZ, we are the DMZ (demilitarize zone). The DMZ is a buffer zone to prevent North Korea from invading south Korea. It appears you might not sully understand the circumstances at play here. North Korea is a communist country and south Korea is not. It's not a battle over who is bigger (US or Russia), but about Communism and north Korea's desire to take over their neighbor. There is no co-existence between communism and capitalism.

There are nine countries with nuclear weapons. Granted, we are the only country that has ever used them, but we spend a great deal of time trying to prevent other less stable governments from developing the technology. Further, there really are few, if any, counties that fear us. Some should, but few do.

rtm3039
Peace through power.
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Thanks for info rtm I never knew. I do know some workmates said they were in the navy or army but they didnt stay there, and none of my family were ever in it. I do know that back in the day it was kinda compulsory.
We have RSA (returned services association) for veterans and they operate restaurants or pubs for members and they have all sorts of gatherings for cheap meals you can eat there if you know someone as a member.

I dont think nz is at war with anyone officially its more of a peace keeping force and also do things like search and rescue and I suppose keeping up defence. Not so much combat because we dont have the numbers and we dont have the weapons. Of course because the US has nuclear power and bombs a lot of countries are actually afraid of them, and dont want to engage with them at all. But I think if they did extend diplomacy you might find others have more in common than you think. Make friends not enemies.

I was just thinking of the situation of North and South Korea and how the US, who are involved there and indirectly responsible for the DMZ and division, arent really helping matters. Those tiny country that really needs to be united rather than split in two just because of russia and US fighting over whos bigger. I mean really. Sorry if being outspoken but do they truly care about the Korean people? I have made friends with several from Korea and they are lovely people. They dont deserve to have their country split in two.
The facts are that The demilitarized zone is a border barrier that divides the Korean Peninsula roughly in half. It was created by agreement between North Korea, China and the United Nations Command in 1953.

If the USA did not care for the Korean people there would only be ONE Korea and not North and South.

The USA has always defended those who love freedom.

Thomas Paine reminded patriots everywhere during the trying times of America’s struggle for independence...…..
“The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all mankind.”

The Founders believed that the idea of human liberty and, therefore, the inherent right of self-government, were applicable not only to Americans, but to all people everywhere.

For that reason hundreds of thousands Americans have died. It has been my observation that the USA has always gone out of the way to be diplomatic and has never gone out of its way to bomb or attack anyone without just cause.

I have a question for you sister...…..can you name one country where the USA has been involved in combat/war and after the conflict we took over that country and made it do as we wanted it to do.