Hell

May 19, 2012
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Major posts:Here is something to think about. Of all the "Near Death" cases we hear of, why is it always that they come back from heaven????? Do you really believe that every near death experience involves heaven? Why not hell
This is the third dang time I tried to post this, so if this goes blank again, I reckon I better reconsider what to post

I dunno Major, a Gallop Poll taken in 2011 said that 9 out of 10 people believe in God, in America, so maybe more have a shot than you think. If you reread my post you will see that I say the majority of near death cases say they went up or to the good place (I hesitate to call it heaven) and that far fewer cases are reported that they went to the bad place (same hesitation). It is likely that far less people want to report how they died, went to hell, got scared damn straight (all puns intended) and were returned to life. The most interesting, to me are those that went to the bad place. I read a story more than 30 years ago (don't remember title or author - it could have been "to hell and back") It was written by a woman who committed suicide and according to her, succeeded. She went to a horrific place, full of woe and despair, landing right next to the dessicated soul of Judas Iscariot. In desparation, she began to pray and calling out to God. Slowly, she began to see more and more lights, which she realized were souls. The place around her evaporated and she was counselled and returned to life. A changed woman. No proof tho like Doctors, Hospitals. Another case, better known in the NDE arena was about an American man travellingg in Italy, who got sick and died in the Hopsital. He went to a place filled with terror, pain, woe and despair. He remembered a prayer he was taught when he was a child and began to pour this out to God. Again he was returned to life after hours (?) of being dead. He became a preacher. There are other cases tho just google it. I have read the arguments against NDE being real. But I don't buy it. When I was a child (7-9?). Her friend's daughter had leukemia (age12-13?) - Judy. Margaret, the Mom was totally. most of her life been into God. She wasn't a holy roller (so to speak) nor did she proslytize, but she knew the good book backwards and forwards and up to her eyeballs in Church activity. This was before her daughter was diagnosed. Her daughter went into the hospital (for tests?) and died unexpectedly. Her Mother's broken hearted anguish and grief could be heard on the whole floor. "Why God, why?" 45 minutes after she was declared, Judy return to life. And she told her Mother she had been to Heaven and what a wondrous place it was and that if only her mother knew what she was keeping her from, she would let go and they would be joined again in that place. A day later, she died again.
No book, no money. Her Mother did have a pamphlet printed about the experience but she gave it out to church members, friends, family.

As for ghosts, I leave that to another post. I'm embarressed to admit how many times I've tried to post this and then re-write it.
 
May 19, 2012
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Dang - It posted twice. Apologies to all. Cut out was the Margaret was a close friend to my mother. I knew her children, including Judy
 

Glomung

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There have been quite a few "hellish" near death experiences recorded, they just don't make for "good press".
My grandmother was a nurse and worked with the dying for decades in a North Carolina hospital, one of the things I remember her saying was that she never wanted to have to watch another heathen die, because they "know what is coming".
As far a ghosts go, the evidence for the existance of ghosts is overwhelming. Pentecostals may not believe in ghosts, but Jesus did. When he was walking across the waters and frightened the apostles He said "I am not a ghost.", he did not say "there are no such things as ghosts".

For all, If your interpretation of scripture does not match the plainly evident reality, you need to adjust your interpretation of scripture, not your interpretation of reality.
 
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Glomung Posts: Pentecostals may not believe in ghosts, but Jesus did. When he was walking across the waters and frightened the apostles He said "I am not a ghost.", he did not say "there are no such things as ghosts".Excellent point. (Silk <--------wishing she thought of it)
 
Jul 22, 2010
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I have to say.....that don't prove nufing. If as is obvious the disciples believed in ghosts, so then to dispel their fears was both necessary and understandable. If they were afraid the 'tooth fairy' was out to get them and do away with all their teeth, Jesus would have reassured them that He was no tooth fairy. Wouldn't mean HE believed in the tooth fairy at all.
To speak to their fears was more comforting that a 'sermon on the water' would have been.
 
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I have to say.....that don't prove nufing. If as is obvious the disciples believed in ghosts, so then to dispel their fears was both necessary and understandable. If they were afraid the 'tooth fairy' was out to get them and do away with all their teeth, Jesus would have reassured them that He was no tooth fairy. Wouldn't mean HE believed in the tooth fairy at all.
To speak to their fears was more comforting that a 'sermon on the water' would have been.
Do you really think so?
 
Jul 22, 2010
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Do you really think so?
Think so..what?
I see no scriptural evidence for ghosts running around haunting old houses, ie disembodied human spirits. There is plenty of scriptural evidence of demonic spirits, fallen angels and the like infesting the place.
 
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When Saul went to the witch of Endor, what was he speaking to if not a ghost?
 
Sep 3, 2009
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Major posts:Here is something to think about. Of all the "Near Death" cases we hear of, why is it always that they come back from heaven????? Do you really believe that every near death experience involves heaven? Why not hell
This is the third dang time I tried to post this, so if this goes blank again, I reckon I better reconsider what to post

I dunno Major, a Gallop Poll taken in 2011 said that 9 out of 10 people believe in God, in America, so maybe more have a shot than you think. If you reread my post you will see that I say the majority of near death cases say they went up or to the good place (I hesitate to call it heaven) and that far fewer cases are reported that they went to the bad place (same hesitation). It is likely that far less people want to report how they died, went to hell, got scared damn straight (all puns intended) and were returned to life. The most interesting, to me are those that went to the bad place. I read a story more than 30 years ago (don't remember title or author - it could have been "to hell and back") It was written by a woman who committed suicide and according to her, succeeded. She went to a horrific place, full of woe and despair, landing right next to the dessicated soul of Judas Iscariot. In desparation, she began to pray and calling out to God. Slowly, she began to see more and more lights, which she realized were souls. The place around her evaporated and she was counselled and returned to life. A changed woman. No proof tho like Doctors, Hospitals. Another case, better known in the NDE arena was about an American man travellingg in Italy, who got sick and died in the Hopsital. He went to a place filled with terror, pain, woe and despair. He remembered a prayer he was taught when he was a child and began to pour this out to God. Again he was returned to life after hours (?) of being dead. He became a preacher. There are other cases tho just google it. I have read the arguments against NDE being real. But I don't buy it. When I was a child (7-9?). Her friend's daughter had leukemia (age12-13?) - Judy. Margaret, the Mom was totally. most of her life been into God. She wasn't a holy roller (so to speak) nor did she proslytize, but she knew the good book backwards and forwards and up to her eyeballs in Church activity. This was before her daughter was diagnosed. Judy died, unexpectedly, in the hospital and her heart broken grief stricken mother could be heard in her anguish throughout the floor. "Why God, why?" 45 minutes after she was declared dead, Judy came back to life. To tell her Mother that she had been to Heaven and if her Mother only knew, she would let her go. She died the next day. Medicine being what it is today, I expect the NDE is more prevalent now, than back in the day. But such cases have in fact been reported, more sparsely for a very very long time.

As for Ghosts, never seen one while I was awake. But they too have been reported for centuries. Before there was any money in it. I'd be the first, also, to say be very very careful, and that there are alot of people just out for the money. I see this as downright dangerous - for all who concern themselves in this arena. But I do think God has called some with these abilities.
I saw that report as well. But the real key is HOW do we get to heaven??

I just read a report that says 52% of American Christians agreed that religions other than Christianity can lead to eternal life.

THe Bible says that only Those who place faith in the Lord Jesus will go to heaven.
 
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Believing in Christ is at the core of my faith. But I think believing in God, period, is a step in the right direction.
 
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Think so..what?
I see no scriptural evidence for ghosts running around haunting old houses, ie disembodied human spirits. There is plenty of scriptural evidence of demonic spirits, fallen angels and the like infesting the place.
Absolutely my thoughts also.
 
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What about what I asked in Post 49?
Paul. IMO was speaking to a demon, impersonating Samuel.

Without tossing out proof texts (you can read them yourself starting with the pivotal verse 1Sam 28:6 and following on) let's just look at this logically:

1) Why would God allow a dead prophet to be "summoned" by a witch?

2) Why would God not answer Saul, yet would rip a soul from the dead to give Saul a prophesy of doom?

The whole experience is rife with occult leanings, not Christian ones, IMO.
 
I am doing a message this weekend on Hell. the more I think about it the more disturbing it is -- everlasting torture? I am a Bible believing Christian. It just seems so harsh -- everlasting punishment for temporal crimes. What am I missing?
The words "hell" and "hades" are not correct translations. The words "grave", "pit", and "Gehennah" were given that interpretation by the Catholics originally. If you would like to know more, I can give you a link.
 
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(Sheesh what is this changing names today? Paul as Saul, Daniel as David on another thread :)). It is, whatever your opinion, still scripture - and it translates to Samuel, who annointed Saul, that Saul knew very well (Samuel) and so would know if the right soul showed. My impression has always been that Saul never heard directly from God. He heard it from the prophet. Why would it be in the Bible, otherwise? Calvin asked what evidence there was in scripture - both Glomung and I have given examples. I agree with Glomung that we have overwhelming evidence of Ghosts existence. Shrug - dunno what else to say. I personally never saw one. Someone close to me, for a time could see them, as clear as day and I remember being a teensy bit jealous, that I could not. God gave me a dream that night that I could see ghosts. At the beginning, I thought "How cool is this." And immediately tried to get each ghosts history - in turn, it led into such a nightmare and I was shown that those ghosts not "crossed over" were by and large, not good people and they clung to me, like as they would smother me. I do believe God has called some to help these souls but in large part - it is a very dangerous arena. The person who "saw" ghosts was tried with demonic attacks and it was scary. My point in bringing these things up at all - is that with all this there appears to be places people go after death and they are not as set in cement as some would believe
 
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Silk: there are many bad examples kept in the Bible to teach us NOT to do something. Earlier God commanded a witch to to be allowed to live (Exodus 22:18 and Deu 18:10) Why would He allow a witch to "raise" Samuel up then? That's a very contradictory idea.

So, Saul saw a demon giving a great impersonation of Samuel: So? Demons are not clods and can trick the eye very easily if one is rebellion against God, which King Saul clearly was.


BTW: The King Saul and the Apostolic Saul(Paul) are almost 1000 years apart.
 
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I have to say.....that don't prove nufing. If as is obvious the disciples believed in ghosts, so then to dispel their fears was both necessary and understandable. If they were afraid the 'tooth fairy' was out to get them and do away with all their teeth, Jesus would have reassured them that He was no tooth fairy. Wouldn't mean HE believed in the tooth fairy at all.
To speak to their fears was more comforting that a 'sermon on the water' would have been.
My opinion as well, Cuz.
 
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Rusty Posts: Paul. IMO was speaking to a demon, impersonating Samuel.
I am aware of the difference in time line between Paul and Saul. And to be honest, I knew who you were referring to. :) I am aware also of the scripture about condemning witches and sorceror's. Whoever was called up kept Samuel's prophecy tally as batting a 1000. What Samuel told Saul turned out to be accurate. Just saying
 
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Glomung Posts: Pentecostals may not believe in ghosts, but Jesus did. When he was walking across the waters and frightened the apostles He said "I am not a ghost.", he did not say "there are no such things as ghosts".Excellent point. (Silk <--------wishing she thought of it)
JACK: The KJV has "ghosts," the original Greek word is actually "spirit," and the point He was making that He was a real flesh and blood human beings, not a disembodied spirit.
 
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