Hell

I agree with the idea that a demon can impersonate a dead person. I have no doubt that this is what happened all the time for the witch's normal clients. But the inspired writer, writing under divine inspiration, calls the entity 'Samuel'.
I disagree with you concerning the identity of this entity, but I do agree with you concerning not trusting men's interpretations. That is why I try to not let the opinions of scholars influence me to the point of coloring how I read the text. It is best for everyone to seek God, to whom interpretations belong. Although we can benefit from the insights of others, we need to remember where the final authority lies.
 
Mr. Darby said:
when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice

Proof enough that she saw something she did not expect.

The fact that Samuel appeared here has nothing to do with God 'sanctioning' witchcraft. God simply used the evil occasion to deliver a message of judgment. God often turns the evil of men to his own purposes. He even used the evil spirit in the false prophets to mislead Ahab into judgment.
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He also turned the ugly event of the cross into salvation for all humanity. God has always used bad for His own good.
 
God created the darkness and the light - he chose the light for us, knowing full well that darkness could and would overwhelm us. That he would "use" evil to advance his plan, makes complete sense to me. That we cannot hope to imitate this and have things turn out well for us, is equally clear to me. Whatever you might think Saul saw with the witch, it was to be taken as a ghost. That the Jews would have had knowledge of "ghosts" or spirits, makes it part of the known lexicon of it's era. As such, you have stories of "ghosts" from mankind's earliest times to the present.
 
Oh - speaking of Near Death Experiences (NDE) - there is a Book, Proof of Heaven, on the NY Times Best Seller List, that is written by a neurosurgeon, who's love of science made it hard for him to believe in God and life after death..He says : "Those implications are tremendous,beyond description. My experience showed me that the death of the human body iand the brain is not end of consciousness,that human experience continues beyond the grave. More important, it continues on under the gaze of a God, who loves and cares for each and every one of us and about where the universe itself and all the beings within it are it are ultimately going."He had heard of NDE before but didn't believe it was any more than fantasy and a reaction of the brain. Being a brain surgeon, going thru this, he knew better with precision, science based information. Just got it and am reading. It's short - 195 pgs. Should be finished in an hour.
 
Oh - speaking of Near Death Experiences (NDE) - there is a Book, Proof of Heaven, on the NY Times Best Seller List, that is written by a neurosurgeon, who's love of science made it hard for him to believe in God and life after death..He says : "Those implications are tremendous,beyond description. My experience showed me that the death of the human body and the brain is not end of consciousness,that human experience continues beyond the grave. More important, it continues on under the gaze of a God, who loves and cares for each and every one of us and about where the universe itself and all the beings within it are it are ultimately going."He had heard of NDE before but didn't believe it was any more than fantasy and a reaction of the brain. Being a brain surgeon, going thru this, he knew better with precision, science based information. Just got it and am reading. It's short - 195 pgs. Should be finished in an hour.
 
OMG, Rusty - you mean unicorns didn't really miss the ark, due to some unicorn foolishness? (silk <----heartbroken)... :). Seriously, you have to tell me where in the OT the unicorns are mentioned because I don't remember seeing it before. And I think it's funny, too. I'm pretty sure that no one really believes in unicorns (really - I'm thinking it would make a good reality show .."Unicorn Hunters". ). There are legends, of course. It seems to me it would be easier to make a case for unicorns as an extinct species than even Bigfoot. You really did get me laughing, in a good way. Thanks. But I still believe that there is overwhelming evidence of ghosts, IMO.
 
I mentioned a book, Proof of Heaven (by Dr.Eban Alexander) which I have to recommend to you, whether you believe in near death experiences or not. It is one of the most powerful NDEs I've ever read and I have read 100's, if not thousands of them. The spiritual message in the book is spell-binding. And it might just convince you. And his descriptions of the higher spiritual realms - to say they are really excellent, would be to minimize it.
 
Dang, Rusty - why don't the scriptures lead to the online bible. Gotta agree, tho, sounds like sloppy or wishful translation. And Rhino's don't have the same appeal, although they do have a horn in the front. :).But the whole thing, which is a complete aside from my initial point, was in answer to Calvin's that there is no scripture about ghosts - and lo and behold, there is.
 
Rusty said:
Who is the addressed to?
Is it anymore convincing than sworn testimonials of UFO kidnappings?
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It is meant to all who read here - but actually I would love your opinion on it (for real). AS to your last question, to me it is far more convincing. But I'd like your take. BTW, I have seen a UFO (unlike a ghost). I was visiting England at the time, in 1997, and it was broad daylight and there were three of us in the car. Like any good tourist, I had a camera with me but by the time I had gotten over the shock of what I was seeing, and made a grab for it - the UFO (metal sphere) was gone. I know of two other people who saw UFOs, both cases, with other witnesses. You won't read any of these accounts anywhere but here because we weren't planning to be thought of as nuts.
 
Darn, I posted 77 twice. I dunno how that happened. Sorry. I'm having trouble with half finishing posts that disappear as I am writing them and double posts. If I figure out how I am doing that, I will hopefully do it no more
 
Well, I saw Calvin's question differently as I do the scriptures mentioned. (sighs). I have looked into the phenomena, seeking truth - as I always do. And I think there is verified evidence of "ghosts" not just the demonic which includes fallen angels. I know a few people who have claimed to have seen ghosts and I have no reason not to believe them.
 
I didn't mean to say that "ghosts" couldn't be demonic - because according to the lit, it sometimes is. The haunting of a place can be demonic or even what is considered "negative" entities. It's considered a very dangerous type of haunting and the paranormal researchers estimate it is the rarer of hauntings. My original post on this thread had to do with what NDE's and ghosts tell us about what can happen after body death and there are at least 3 realms involved.
 
Aw, Rusty - the people here have great impact on me,in many ways and places. I have read alot about alot of things - that's not pride talking - it just is. It has been a part of my spiritual journey. I've read alot of what I might describe as crappola, too. And "Proof of Heaven" ,IMO, is a remarkable book and I would like your take on it.
 
At the very end of the book - a web site is given that I want to make sure people here don't think I am recommending . The book is still well worth reading but the web site with annual membership fees of $49 to $1,200 left me cold. Perhaps they hope to reduce their number of crazies. I dunno. But it makes me appreciate the way this site is run like never before. unlike other sites, they don't abide "attacks" , they keep and restore a good environment to post, and it's all free. Applause. And this is true about alot of Forums (the bad stuff), Christian or not, on the web.
 
Silk said:
When Saul went to the witch of Endor, what was he speaking to if not a ghost?
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Silk, did you check out the accuracy of the prophesy that was allegedly delivered by the late Samuel?

Did not the spirit say that tomorrow, Saul and his sons would be shishkabab?

It seems that the philistines who were camped at shunem at that time would have needed to be airlifted to mount gilboa to be there by the next day. Any prophesy from the Lord would be accurate. This one delivered through the ministry of the witch seems to be close, but not accurate. The spirit did say that Saul would be with him next day, but the question is, Would Saul's spirit go to the same place as Samuel's spirit?
I do not see that the witch of En-dor summoned the spirit of the prophet Samual, rather she called up an unclean spirit who impersonated Samuel.
 
JudaicChristian said:
The KJ Bible people were Masons. The KJV is also known as the Masonic Bible.
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Where in the world did you come up with this???

What are your resources that prove such a claim????

A KJV Bible in a Masonic Lodge does not make it a Masonic Bible.

That would be like me calling you a car because you stand in your garage!!
 
calvin said:
Silk, did you check out the accuracy of the prophesy that was allegedly delivered by the late Samuel?

Did not the spirit say that tomorrow, Saul and his sons would be shishkabab?

It seems that the philistines who were camped at shunem at that time would have needed to be airlifted to mount gilboa to be there by the next day. Any prophesy from the Lord would be accurate. This one delivered through the ministry of the witch seems to be close, but not accurate. The spirit did say that Saul would be with him next day, but the question is, Would Saul's spirit go to the same place as Samuel's spirit?
I do not see that the witch of En-dor summoned the spirit of the prophet Samual, rather she called up an unclean spirit who impersonated Samuel.
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Yes sir, that is what I have always understood.
 
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