How Does One Keep The Sabbath And Does It Apply To The New Covenant

[Man-ofGod]

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith....

Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.....
Again, here:

Romans 10:1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Thanks again for responding,

All of your quotes are about justification. When your in Christ, Galatians 3:
13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith...."


Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

I think this is plain enough. But what we are talking about sanctification. So I am not sure how you conclude that establishing the law (rom 3:31) negates the sacrifice of Christ?

Blessings,
MoG

 

[Man-ofGod]

Hey MoG, every time I get you to the point where you have to explain your doctrine by clear questions and answers, you seem to disappear for a few days from the conversation. You come back and act as if these conversations have not taking place. I have ask you some questions that you have yet to answer, do you mind looking back at our conversation and giving some answer to the conflicts your doctrine has with the "evident" truth of scripture? Your Friend Mitspa

Bro. Mitspa,

Please be patient with me. I have multiple queries on this thread that I try to address. Also on Friday evening and Saturday I am guaranteed to be absent due to the Sabbath. Sunday I am usually out w my sons or working O/T. Such is my life

If you can summarize the questions here that will make my life easier, otherwise I will do my best to see which question you might be referring to in previous post.

Blessings,
MoG

 

[Man-ofGod]

Right , it is the law that produces sinful desires in the flesh of man, so why would any attempt to promote the law as the answer to sin?
And again I find those who attempt to teach a standard to others that they do not keep themselves are guilty of the thing that God hates above all things, which is hypocrisy.
Paul does not suggest that a believer is held to a standard of a sinless life, and judged according to that standard. That was what the law was, a absolute standard that could not be kept, by which all where made guilty. What Paul is saying is just the opposite , you are no longer under that standard (that could not be kept) but are under the grace of God that will empower you to overcome the flesh and the sin that proceeds from the flesh.

The word condemnation is kata-krima or to judge against. The law can not judge-against those who are justified in Christ.

Lets show a little more context of these scriptures: and not just those that seem to put believers back under absolute standards that can not be kept.

Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, (under law) but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Obeyed from the heart? not from the letter. The obedience of faith is that which Paul is teaching.

We where "slaves" to sin and the law held us in bondage to our sinful condition, but now we are justified apart from the obedience to the written code of the law and our obedience is that of faith and love. I am a slave of righteousness not a set of rules but a Person.

Christ and what he has done for us is the answer to the sin problem. Promoting the commandments is an answer to sanctification. In actually, when you love your neighbor as you love yourself and when you love God with all your heart and all your soul, are are in fact promoting the law.

Blessings,
MoG

 

[Mitspa]

Bro. Mitspa,

Please be patient with me. I have multiple queries on this thread that I try to address. Also on Friday evening and Saturday I am guaranteed to be absent due to the Sabbath. Sunday I am usually out w my sons or working O/T. Such is my life

If you can summarize the questions here that will make my life easier, otherwise I will do my best to see which question you might be referring to in previous post.

Blessings,
MoG

Well I like having Sat and Sun off
Yea if you dont mind, I would very much like to get an answer to those things that a written in clear and "evident" terms.

I guess it would be ok to have some Sabbath folks on a job? They would not be able to work Sat but they could fill in for some on Sun?

 

[TalkJesus]

Thanks again for responding,

All of your quotes are about justification. When your in Christ, Galatians 3:
13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith...."


Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

I think this is plain enough. But what we are talking about sanctification. So I am not sure how you conclude that establishing the law (rom 3:31) negates the sacrifice of Christ?

Blessings,
MoG

Did the Gentiles believers at Galatia thought that getting circumcision was necessary for salvation? No. So then it was about our identity & how we live the christian life hence how we live in righteousness which is by faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Mitspa]

Christ and what he has done for us is the answer to the sin problem. Promoting the commandments is an answer to sanctification. In actually, when you love your neighbor as you love yourself and when you love God with all your heart and all your soul, are are in fact promoting the law.

Blessings,
MoG

Well that was not the question that you seemed unable to answer? But I can bring it around to the same point, if you are willing to give some direct answers, in regards to your doctrine? The Commandment to Love as Christ has loved us, is what James called the Royal Law, Paul called it the "law of Christ" And this is not "promoting" the law of Moses but the "law of Christ". One upholds the law when one admits they cannot keep the law by the written code. The letter kills but the Spirit gives life. It is only that we have received Gods love (based only on Christ) through the Holy Spirit that we can in turn love others "as Christ has loved us". Now it sounds as if you agree with the scripture that declares in clear terms that "all the law is fulfilled in one word"? If so what need do we have to be under the "parts" of the written code of the law of Moses? Is it not that love is the only way to keep the Sabbath also?

Why are so many teaching they must be under the law (which is only fulfilled in love) and not teaching the commandment of Christ to love and that fulfilling all the law demanded?

 

[Man-ofGod]

Did the Gentiles believers at Galatia thought that getting circumcision was necessary for salvation? No. So then it was about our identity & how we live the christian life hence how we live in righteousness which is by faith in Jesus Christ.

Thank you TalkJesus,

Actually, salvation was indeed the issue in Galatia. False teachers were mingling Jewish traditions with the truth of the Gospel. By ignoring the decision of the general council at Jerusalem (Acts 15:24), teachers in Galatia was still propagating this false theology. Therefore, the issue was that certain leaders, due to these teachings, thought that these traditions were essential for salvation while others most likely contended w/ the false doctrine. Paul would set the record straight.

Notice the origin of the false doctrine/gospel of circumcision:

Acts 15:1
" And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved."



Therefore, Paul's epistle to Galatia and to other churches as well is directly addressing the issue of salvation/justification. This was the burden of his heart. No one can be justified by the law, only through Christ alone are we saved. But he took great pains to preserve the sanctity of the Law so that the doctrine that your advocating would not crop up. For example, he would call the law and the commandments Holy, just and good (Rom 7:12), and spiritual (Rom 7:13). He would tell us the law is not abolished and that we should establish it (Rom 3:31). This was Paul great balancing act. Otherwise, it would have been easy to write that the law did not apply any longer.


Blessings,
MoG

 

[Man-ofGod]

Well that was not the question that you seemed unable to answer? But I can bring it around to the same point, if you are willing to give some direct answers, in regards to your doctrine? The Commandment to Love as Christ has loved us, is what James called the Royal Law, Paul called it the "law of Christ" And this is not "promoting" the law of Moses but the "law of Christ". One upholds the law when one admits they cannot keep the law by the written code. The letter kills but the Spirit gives life. It is only that we have received Gods love (based only on Christ) through the Holy Spirit that we can in turn love others "as Christ has loved us". Now it sounds as if you agree with the scripture that declares in clear terms that "all the law is fulfilled in one word"? If so what need do we have to be under the "parts" of the written code of the law of Moses? Is it not that love is the only way to keep the Sabbath also?

Why are so many teaching they must be under the law (which is only fulfilled in love) and not teaching the commandment of Christ to love and that fulfilling all the law demanded?

Indeed. But love (Agape) is not a feeling in scripture, it is an action. Hence why Jesus can say, "if you love me, keep my commandments" (john 14:15). Again, it is clear that teaching is very important. Hence 2 tim 3:16 - 17:

"
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."



Also, we are not under any parts of any law. We establish the law, the principal of the law, anything that is Good and Holy and applicable according to the complete biblical record (both OT and NT).


Blessings,
MoG

 

[Mitspa]

Indeed. But love (Agape) is not a feeling in scripture, it is an action. Hence why Jesus can say, "if you love me, keep my commandments" (john 14:15). Again, it is clear that teaching is very important. Hence 2 tim 3:16 - 17:

"
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."



Also, we are not under any parts of any law. We establish the law, the principal of the law, anything that is Good and Holy and applicable according to the complete biblical record (both OT and NT).


Blessings,
MoG

Well the Love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, it has many wonderful feelings and does many great good works apart from the written code of the law.

Again I see you will not answer very simple questions, I must admit I find it a continued disappointment and hinders our ability to have a good discussion. And Jesus Goes on to say "THIS IS MY COMMANDMENT" THAT YOU LOVE AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"

Now again this is the Royal law and the law of Christ. Even if one took the position that Jesus was speaking of the Ten, the fulfillment is still love. So not sure what point you think to make as it relates to the purpose and fulfillment of the law of Moses?

So you now are saying "we are not under any parts of the law" And keep the law in principle? if you mean by love then we are in agreement. So then we are not under the commandment "thou shalt not steal" but to love others as Christ has loved us? Which if we keep love, we would never steal from anyone.. but we look to give to those in need... maybe where are getting into some agreement?

 

[Man-ofGod]

Well the Love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, it has many wonderful feelings and does many great good works apart from the written code of the law.

Again I see you will not answer very simple questions, I must admit I find it a continued disappointment and hinders our ability to have a good discussion. And Jesus Goes on to say "THIS IS MY COMMANDMENT" THAT YOU LOVE AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"

Now again this is the Royal law and the law of Christ. Even if one took the position that Jesus was speaking of the Ten, the fulfillment is still love. So not sure what point you think to make as it relates to the purpose and fulfillment of the law of Moses?

So you now are saying "we are not under any parts of the law" And keep the law in principle? if you mean by love then we are in agreement. So then we are not under the commandment "thou shalt not steal" but to love others as Christ has loved us? Which if we keep love, we would never steal from anyone.. but we look to give to those in need... maybe where are getting into some agreement?

I ask this reverently in light of the topic, can the Holy Spirit cause you to sin?

 

[Mitspa]

I ask this reverently in light of the topic, can the Holy Spirit cause you to sin?

I would wonder how anything I have said would even raise that question? The flesh of man is the source of sin, and for this reason the written code cannot be kept by man. God knew that man was sinful in nature, man cannot or will not see this truth. Therefore God gave the law to show man the sinful flesh, not to justify.

 

[Mitspa]

I would wonder how anything I have said would even raise that question? The flesh of man is the source of sin, and for this reason the written code cannot be kept by man. God knew that man was sinful in nature, man cannot or will not see this truth. Therefore God gave the law to show man the sinful flesh, not to justify.

I would also add that Jesus and His followers appeared to break the law concerning the Sabbath. I say appeared by what man understood the written code of the law to represent in its fulfillment. Jesus knew what the Sabbath was and He knew what He had wrote with His own finger. He was judged falsely by those under the law according to the letter, but He was "in the Spirit" fulfilling all that was had been written. So man is not the judge of "sin" and it may appear to you that some are "sinning" by not observing the Sabbath according to the written code? But you would be wrong to judge that as "sin" just as they was wrong in the Lords time.

 

[Man-ofGod]

I would wonder how anything I have said would even raise that question? The flesh of man is the source of sin, and for this reason the written code cannot be kept by man. God knew that man was sinful in nature, man cannot or will not see this truth. Therefore God gave the law to show man the sinful flesh, not to justify.

Therefore, when a man sins, it is not the spirit that is causing him to sin, it is his flesh?

 

[Mitspa]

Therefore, when a man sins, it is not the spirit that is causing him to sin, it is his flesh?

Wow MoG you have passed over a whole lot of what we have been discussing to ask this question that is very obvious to me and you already know my reply would never even suggest the Spirit would cause someone to sin, in context of my last post. I thought we had come to some agreement on love? as the fulfillment of the law?

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

How Does One Keep The Sabbath And Does It Apply To The New Covenant

Genesis 2
2 "And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work
which He had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because in it He had rested from all the work
which God created and made."

Exodus 20
8 "Remember the sabbath, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shall you do labor, and do all your work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it you shall not do any work, nor your son, nor your daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservantnot thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is witin thy gates; 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Hebrew 4
1 "Let us therefore fear, lest a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore
a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his owm works, as God did from His.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into His rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

So, before going into any doctrines that have been colored by personal prejudices and opinions and premises, let's see what you folks do with the scriptures in front of you.
I have not been able to grasp the significance of the sabbath: it feels like a paradox to me. For both camps, sabbathist and "free",
there is ample information provided to enhance your arguments.
I want to be taught.

 

[Mitspa]

How Does One Keep The Sabbath And Does It Apply To The New Covenant

Genesis 2
2 "And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work
which He had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because in it He had rested from all the work
which God created and made."

Exodus 20
8 "Remember the sabbath, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shall you do labor, and do all your work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it you shall not do any work, nor your son, nor your daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservantnot thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is witin thy gates; 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Hebrew 4
1 "Let us therefore fear, lest a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore
a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his owm works, as God did from His.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into His rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

So, before going into any doctrines that have been colored by personal prejudices and opinions and premises, let's see what you folks do with the scriptures in front of you.
I have not been able to grasp the significance of the sabbath: it feels like a paradox to me. For both camps, sabbathist and "free",
there is ample information provided to enhance your arguments.
I want to be taught.

Well first of course "Jesus" is Joshua in this scripture. As it relates to Joshua who brought the people into the promised land, not the Lord Jesus Christ who has brought us into the rest of God, in that we "cease" from our own works "law" and have entered into Gods promises that are in Christ.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Well first of course "Jesus" is Joshua in this scripture. As it relates to Joshua who brought the people into the promised land, not the Lord Jesus Christ who has brought us into the rest of God, in that we "cease" from our own works "law" and have entered into Gods promises that are in Christ.

____________________________________________

Jesus is Joshua???
"cease from our own works law"???

Too much of a stretch.

 

[Mitspa]

____________________________________________

Jesus is Joshua???
"cease from our own works law"???

Too much of a stretch.

Look this scripture is understood by "every" biblical scholar to be speaking of Joshua that brought the people into the promised land. Read it in context. You do understand that Joshua and Jesus is the same name right? Jesus name is Joshua, and Jesus is a Greek to English translation of Joshua from the Hebrew. Exact same word and name.

Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.


Heb 4:1 ¶ Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,'" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";
5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest."
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Look this scripture is understood by "every" biblical scholar to be speaking of Joshua that brought the people into the promised land. Read it in context. You do understand that Joshua and Jesus is the same name right? Jesus name is Joshua, and Jesus is a Greek to English translation of Joshua from the Hebrew. Exact same word and name.
Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Heb 4:1 ¶ Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,'" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";
5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest."
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.

___________________________________________________________

"For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them...". Who is "them"? Is it not them that believed the testimony of the ten spies, and not Caleb's? And who preached the Gospel? If it was "unto us", then it had to be the same Gospel that was preached "unto them": there are not two gospels. So you are saying that Joshua preached the death, burial, and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus?

 

[Mitspa]

___________________________________________________________

"For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them...". Who is "them"? Is it not them that believed the testimony of the ten spies, and not Caleb's? And who preached the Gospel? If it was "unto us", then it had to be the same Gospel that was preached "unto them": there are not two gospels. So you are saying that Joshua preached the death, burial, and the resurrection of the Lord Jesus?

Come on? the context proves the Name is not Jesus the Lord but Jesus (Joshua)

And the "them" is speaking of the Jews of that time, who rejected the gospel (in the same manner as those who fell at the rebellion). Which is the whole point of the Book of Hebrews, how the "Hebrews" have failed to "cease" from their "own" works- law....this being the "willful sin" in Heb 10.