Not making a "straw man" you know well that you have in post past, attempted as others, to present the law as "moral" in part and "ceremonial" in part? Have you not? If you now agree that the standard is "all things written in the book of the law" then how can one not be under "all things written" if one is subject to any part of the law of moses, then they must be subject to "all". That is the point Paul was making and that is the question that I cannot seem to get an answer from those who hold your understanding of scripture.
How Does One Keep The Sabbath And Does It Apply To The New Covenant
- Thread starter Brother Paul
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Mitspa, Mitspa, Mitspa. Here you go again. You posted something that was interpreted differently than what you purportedly meant, and now say that it is our (the readers) who are seeing two gospels!
Mitspa, Mitspa, Mitspa. God appointed Paul as the apostle to the Gentiles: those who are now the main focus of the Gospel. That is not saying the Jews are not privy to the Gospel. But the Ministry is one, and the Gospel is one. The Ministry consists of "...some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers...". No office is greater than the other, and each office must submit one to another. Paul submitted to the presbytery by the laying on of hands to the apostleship,
and he brought matters into the counsel of the elders to be judged (Acts 15).
Mitspa, Mitspa, Mitspa. You sound like a little boy who just repeats what they hear, and don't understand the reasoning behind it.
Beloved, put aside all you think you know, and put yourself under the wings of a teacher of the Gospel. I believe you have the potential to become an elder in the Church...if you start listening to the true Gospel (Mk. 16:15-16; Acts 2:38; I Cor 15:1-4).
Well thank you for those kind words, but I have posted clear and evident scripture that declares in complete terms that "not even an angel from heaven should preach another gospel other than that which Paul received from God. That all men will be judge according to Pauls gospel. So if you see a difference between Paul and Peter? I do not and find no conflict, But Pauls gospel of grace is that which judges all other scripture.
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Mitspa, "Paul's Gospel" does not judge any other scripture: it aligns itself with the Gospel that Peter and the eleven preached.
The New Testament is perfectly joined together, and there is no contradiction: except to those who would reject the scriptures.
The problem is that you inferred that there are some here who would reject the teachings of Paul, and that there is a difference
in doctrine between Paul and the other apostles. Now, you seem quite adamant that there is a difference between Peter and Paul, without acknowledgng that the Ministry of Peter and Paul is not different in content, only in direction. Peter is the apostle to the Jews; Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles.
The Ministry of the Lord Jesus is not subject to anyone but the Lord, even as unto a King; but we should all be submissive one to another as the Truth is preached. And it is not age, but Truth that has precedent; although the younger should give place to
the elder, as they were placed in the Gospel first. All scripture must be judged in context of surrounding scripture, and the New Testament as a whole. The Old Testament should be interpreted in the light of the New Testament: for the light of the New Testament is greater. Quite simple, really.
Of course it does, when Paul says that if "any" preach another gospel other than that which he has taught, "let them be accursed" Even an angel from heaven! Then goes on to explain how he rebuked Peter and the and the others for not holding to grace but trying to bring back the law of Moses, of course his doctrine is that which judges all the scriptures. The scriptures themselves declare "that God will judge the hearts of all men, according to Pauls gospel.
Here is his words according to the truth of scripture: Let Gods Word judge and be the final answer to all truth.
Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Ga 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Ga 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
Ga 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
11 ¶ But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
2 Pe 3:15 nd account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
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OK. What is your gospel? Let's see if it lines up with the Apostle Paul's Gospel.
Well Mr villa we have been back and forth on issues of doctrine for days now, so not sure that you are looking for? Read my many post on this thread and on the Divine Nature and other conversations and you will get a good understanding of sound doctrine. If You have a question about a certain point that I have made, then I will be glad to answer. If you are looking for a simple explanation of the gospel? I would use these scriptures:
Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
_____________________________________________Well Mr villa we have been back and forth on issues of doctrine for days now, so not sure that you are looking for? Read my many post on this thread and on the Divine Nature and other conversations and you will get a good understanding of sound doctrine. If You have a question about a certain point that I have made, then I will be glad to answer. If you are looking for a simple explanation of the gospel? I would use these scriptures:
Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Paul wrote to them that are saved: to those who had submitted to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, when He said, "Verili, verily, I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
Again, if you don't undestand, Jesus said, "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved." You are trying to make Jesus out
as ignorant of His own words: or using the words of Paul to demean the words of the Lord.
The Apostle Paul did not deviate from the Gospel; you have. You are putting the cart before the horse.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be conceived of God, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Isa 58:13-14
Nice! And who was YHVH addressing here?
Nice! And who was YHVH addressing here?
Shabbat Shalom Mog
Oh no, back to the baptism thing again?
__________________________________________Oh no, back to the baptism thing again?
"...except a man be born of the watater and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
A person may think they serve God in faith because they read the Bible from Genesis to Revelations and memorized
many scriptures: but that is only works of the flesh without true obedience.
The obedience of faith, "nothing profits but faith working by love"
__________________________________________The obedience of faith, "nothing profits but faith working by love"
Where is your scripture of faith without obedience? That would amount to what you have: carnal faith.
"...except a man be born of the watater and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
A person may think they serve God in faith because they read the Bible from Genesis to Revelations and memorized many scriptures: but that is only works of the flesh without true obedience.
What? Faith is obedience, it is the obedience from the heart that God desires, and all sound doctrine teaches this obedience.__________________________________________
Where is your scripture of faith without obedience? That would amount to what you have: carnal faith.
"...except a man be born of the watater and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
A person may think they serve God in faith because they read the Bible from Genesis to Revelations and memorized many scriptures: but that is only works of the flesh without true obedience.
Ro 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Eph 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Also Mr. Villa you are again making personal attacks and remarks, please try to refrain form such things. Remember the works of the flesh are hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife,
these are listed with all the others that hinder a believer from receiving the Kingdom of God.
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TalkJesus
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The rest of that story goes like this, diverting from how you were applyig that verse of what Jesus was saying that for.
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Okay then. It is not possible for men to enter into life by keeping the commandments. If men could so such a thing, then Christ died in vain.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith....26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
_______________________________________What? Faith is obedience, it is the obedience from the heart that God desires, and all sound doctrine teaches this obedience.
Ro 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Eph 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Also Mr. Villa you are again making personal attacks and remarks, please try to refrain form such things. Remember the works of the flesh are hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, these are listed with all the others that hinder a believer from receiving the Kingdom of God.
You are correct about the personal remarks: your attitude and words were beginning to rub off on me. I apologize
to you, and to the forum.
We are called to believe: but believe what? We are called to believe the promise of the Gospel; which is, "...and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." even as Abraham also believed the promise of God for a progenitor. Abraham believed the promise
of God, not just believe God.
All the scriptures you use are directed to members of the body, who are already saved: the Aposte Paul taking on his role as
a teacher.
What is the Gospel that you are proclaiming? It still seems to be salvation by faith through grace.