Hurting

[aha]

As I said in the OP, the Bible contains the greatest wisdom. But in my humble opinion, the Bible also contains some of the greatest absurdities. I need to hear from God not from a book.

I think that is not a humble opinion: you can just ask a question or that something is not clear....
But i think you already judge when you say something is absurd.

I'm not telling anyone that I know how they should live their life. I'm not giving anyone instructions or recommendations.

Yup, you may not be giving instruction, but you are being judgmental by calling the OT laws as absurdities.

I will say however that I have also been a member of atheist forums and ex-Christian forums.

Ah ok. We are all students of life: we choose our teachers.

David delights in the law, he sees beauty and wisdom.... those atheist see ugliness...

Psalm 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish


1 Timothy 1:3-7
New King James Version (NKJV)
No Other Doctrine
3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.

 

[Mitspa]

Well, were it not for this dogma of people tortured in excruciating pain and regret forever and ever. Christianity would obviously be the first choice.

Is this an attempt to bring up this issue again? Whats next, does half a dozen of your homeless friends, all of a sudden join the forum to debate this one issue?

 

[Mitspa]

I was convinced that I was born again.

I did not see this post...sorry and I want to say if you have really come here looking for the truth and are sincere in your desires, God will use the people on this forum to help you. But for some reason I feel that your not representing yourself as you really are?

 

[ASUK]

Whats next, does half a dozen of your homeless friends, all of a sudden join the forum to debate this one issue?

That's rude of you to say.

 

[Mitspa]

That's rude of you to say.

well thats because this happened a month or so ago on this very issue.

 

[Euphemia]

I told you. I'm convinced that I'm born again. As far as I know the answer is yes.

We can know beyond a shadow of a doubt if we are born again, and those who are can tell you when that precious exchange of one's sins for God's gift of forgiveness took place.

 

[Huntingteckel]

well thats because this happened a month or so ago on this very issue.

He is saying he has an issue with that view so it's worth discussing. I don't see an issue with discussing it.

 

[JustPassingThru]

I'm not really concerned about his issue as I am about his spiritual state, we have asked him many times and even explained how one knows if they are born again and he doesn't respond to these posts, to me, and I say this in love, he just wants to argue and isn't really that concerned about Hell that he believes is so terrible as stated in his opening posts, if it was me and I believed as he does I would jump at the opportunity to be saved, born again and not have to worry about it, .....wait a minute, ...that's what I did!

Gene

 

[Huntingteckel]

I'm not really concerned about his issue as I am about his spiritual state, we have asked him many times and even explained how one knows if they are born again and he doesn't respond to these posts, to me, and I say this in love, he just wants to argue and isn't really that concerned about Hell that he believes is so terrible as stated in his opening posts, if it was me and I believed as he does I would jump at the opportunity to be saved, born again and not have to worry about it, .....wait a minute, ...that's what I did!

Gene

I believe it's this view that's causing his spiritual state. Some people, myself included, would rather burn than worship a being that is so cruel.

Maybe he is just here to argue. I can't tell, but I don't assume that being horrified is a good reason to come to Christ. It causes a very weak foundation.

 

[JustPassingThru]

"He is saying he has an issue with that view so it's worth discussing. I don't see an issue with discussing it."

There's no point in discussing it and confusing him more because it's not true, to make it true one has to twist the Scriptures and call Jesus a liar, also Paul tells us to avoid foolish and unlearned questions, knowing that they give birth to strifes. 2 Tim 2:23


Gene

 

[Huntingteckel]

"He is saying he has an issue with that view so it's worth discussing. I don't see an issue with discussing it."

There's no point in discussing it and confusing him more because it's not true, to make it true one has to twist the Scriptures and call Jesus a liar, also Paul tells us to avoid foolish and unlearned questions, knowing that they give birth to strifes. 2 Tim 2:23


Gene

I was going to let it go, but I've decided against it. It's disgusting to me that you won't even acknowledge that there is a biblical basis for this belief when someone's soul hangs in the balance. I don't need to twist any Scripture to support my belief. People that hold the traditional view are the ones that have to twist verses. Perish doesn't mean perish. Death doesn't mean death. Second death actually means eternal life in suffering. I'm not trying to be mean, but if you show anyone that's never read the Bible any verse in regards to the death of the wicked they would think it means they are destroyed. The Bible at face value teaches conditional immortality.

 

[Huntingteckel]

I was going to let it go, but I've decided against it. It's disgusting to me that you won't even acknowledge that there is a biblical basis for this belief when someone's soul hangs in the balance. I don't need to twist any Scripture to support my belief. People that hold the traditional view are the ones that have to twist verses. Perish doesn't mean perish. Death doesn't mean death. Second death actually means eternal life in suffering. I'm not trying to be mean, but if you show anyone that's never read the Bible any verse in regards to the death of the wicked they would think it means they are destroyed. The Bible at face value teaches conditional immortality.

*Edit*
With the exception of a single verse in Revelation.

 

[LanceA]

I believe it's this view that's causing his spiritual state. Some people, myself included, would rather burn than worship a being that is so cruel.

So, technically in your opinion God has been cruel throughout the entire Bible? In your own words you would rather burn than worship Him? God has destroyed the earth; God has destroyed cities; God ordered every man, woman and child to be killed and punished those that didn't do as he said. So you are saying God is cruel and isn't worth worshipping then? So, since this is your take on God, why are you worshipping Him? Just curious. It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[JustPassingThru]

Maybe he is just here to argue. I can't tell, but I don't assume that being horrified is a good reason to come to Christ. It causes a very weak foundation.

Sorry man, but I'll stick to Scripture rather than to opinions,

And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jude 1:23

The word save is sōzō - sode'-zo and it means salvation in all of it's aspects and the word fire is pur pronounced poor and is used 74 times in the New Testament and it is the same word Jesus used when teaching about being cast into the fire and it's also the same word used to describe the Lake of Fire.

Granted it's not a good foundation, I was scared of Hell so I came to the Lord, but Hell is not my foundation, my foundation is Jesus Christ, Hell was just the vehicle, He knew I wasn't afraid of man or beast so He used something I was afraid of to bring me to Him, ...through the decades He brought many of His children into my life to show me His love, but I was so hard and cruel love couldn't touch me, so in His love He used the only thing He knew would/could touch me.

Gene

 

[Huntingteckel]

So, technically in your opinion God has been cruel throughout the entire Bible? In your own words you would rather burn than worship Him? God has destroyed the earth; God has destroyed cities; God ordered every man, woman and child to be killed and punished those that didn't do as he said. So you are saying God is cruel and isn't worth worshipping then? So, since this is your take on God, why are you worshipping Him? Just curious. It just doesn't make sense to me.

There is a major difference between ending someone's physical life like God has done all throughout history and keeping someone alive after death only to torment them.

I worship God because He created me. I don't see Him as evil, but the traditional view would definitely make Him evil.

Maybe he is just here to argue. I can't tell, but I don't assume that being horrified is a good reason to come to Christ. It causes a very weak foundation.

Sorry man, but I'll stick to Scripture rather than to opinions,

And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jude 1:23

The word save is sōzō - sode'-zo and it means salvation in all of it's aspects and the word fire is pur pronounced poor and is used 74 times in the New Testament and it is the same word Jesus used when teaching about being cast into the fire and it's also the same word used to describe the Lake of Fire.

Granted it's not a good foundation, I was scared of Hell so I came to the Lord, but Hell is not my foundation, my foundation is Jesus Christ, Hell was just the vehicle, He knew I wasn't afraid of man or beast so He used something I was afraid of to bring me to Him, ...through the decades He brought many of His children into my life to show me His love, but I was so hard and cruel love couldn't touch me, so in His love He used the only thing He knew would/could touch me.

Gene

I believe in the lake of fire. I believe the wicked are burnt up in that lake, and are no more.

 

[JustPassingThru]

"I believe it's this view that's causing his spiritual state. Some people, myself included, would rather burn than worship a being that is so cruel."

Oh man! If that's the way you feel then Father will grant your wish, ...please be very careful, you are very close to committing the unpardonable sin.

In His Love,

Gene

 

[Huntingteckel]

"I believe it's this view that's causing his spiritual state. Some people, myself included, would rather burn than worship a being that is so cruel."

Oh man! If that's the way you feel then Father will grant your wish, ...please be very careful, you are very close to committing the unpardonable sin.

In His Love,

Gene

What unpardonable sin? I worship Christ. Just because I believe something different about hell than you do doesn't mean I'm not saved.

Also, why don't you do the regular quote? I don't get notifications if you do it the way you have been.

 

[ASUK]

"I believe it's this view that's causing his spiritual state. Some people, myself included, would rather burn than worship a being that is so cruel."

Oh man! If that's the way you feel then Father will grant your wish, ...please be very careful, you are very close to committing the unpardonable sin.

In His Love,

Gene

How is anything he said remotely resembling an unpardonable sin?

 

[Euphemia]

*Edit*
With the exception of a single verse in Revelation.

This one?

Revelation 20:10 (NLT)
Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


It is in keeping with these descriptions of God's eternal wrath:

Isaiah 34:10 (NLT)
This judgment on Edom will never end; the smoke of its burning will rise forever. The land will lie deserted from generation to generation. No one will live there anymore.

Jeremiah 15:14 (NLT)
I will tell your enemies to take you as captives to a foreign land. For my anger blazes like a fire that will burn forever.”

Jeremiah 17:4 (NLT)
The wonderful possession I have reserved for you will slip from your hands. I will tell your enemies to take you as captives to a foreign land. For my anger blazes like a fire that will burn forever.”

 

[JustPassingThru]

"Also, why don't you do the regular quote? I don't get notifications if you do it the way you have been."

How do I do that since the quotation mark symbol has disappeared from the menu bar?



Friend, take a serious look at what you have said,

I worship God because He created me. I don't see Him as evil, but the traditional view would definitely make Him evil.

We worship Jesus because He died on the Cross for our sins to redeem us and in so doing we worship the Father in spirit and truth by and through the Holy Spirit, which is impossible for us to do unless our spirit is regenerated, i.e., born again.

Jesus created you because He is faithful to His word when He said let us make man in our image and gave to Adam the ability to create through procreation, so yes, God is our creator because our fathers fertilized an egg in our mother womb which set in motion Psa 139:13, 14.

Now, do you really believe the Word,even if you don't understand it?

That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD , and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isa 45:6, 7

In His Love,

Gene