In-Culture Cross-Culture
- Thread starter bobinfaith
- Start date
Amen that's like losing your temper and beating a guy but praising God that you did not cuss once.
Forgiveness is not based on the offense but based on God commands us to do so.
Mark 11:25 says..... When you stand Praying - FORGIVE- if you HAVE ANY AUGHT - AGAINST Any - so your Father which is in Heaven - MAY Forgive you - of your trespasses.
Against what many claim - this is not speaking to the unsaved but unto the BRETHREN.
Unforgiveness violates the law of Love as well and if your love walk is off then your prayers will not produce the desired results.
Unforgiveness is one of the open doors unto the enemy the devil.
It is through this unforgiveness that he is able to get judgment against a believer and has the legal right under kingdom laws to begin to steel, kill and destroy in ones life.
I can hear it now, brother FCJ, you don't know what they did to me and if you did then you would not say I have to forgive until they make it right.
That's just it, it's not my words but The Fathers Words and it is He Who said so.
Blessings to you and your family
Very interesting as the two are similar traits - are the two church members women? I find that with men, its more culturally acceptable to express your anger with your fists (or guns, or a knife) than attempt to talk with the offending party in hopes they will listen.
Why is this so...how can someone do this...women do 1 and 2 a lot. Probably because culture aside, childbearing especially with lots of children, thats what you do if you cant talk to God. Or dont know how. Thats if, you still want your children to be around you and not run away from you out of fear because you got angry or lost your temper with them. I think in a way, people think they are being merciful when they withold anger but if you never call people on it they will not know and continue on with that behaviour. (Thats is why, in traffic situations, its better to honk your horn than swear under your breath, or have road rage and call someone racist names - why people think others are better or worse drivers than others due to their skin colour I dont know?!)
If you grew up learning these habits you also pass them on to your children, and I guess it becomes part of your culture. But its not loving to pretend to love someone yet still be angry with them. Because God wants us to be forgiving others just as he forgave us, and we have all sinned and fallen short of His glory. Praise the Lord He does let me know if Im doing something that doesnt please Him and shows me a better way.
The more I walk with God the more I understand what it really is to be forgiven.
Amen and Amen and yet many won't forgive one another.
Blessings to you Lanolin
Yes thats sad and some wont listen. Was thinking how, if they dont then you need to tell it to the church and treat them as an unbeliever. Thats something hard to do, and I think within families very hard to live with an unbeliever but God calls us to peace, if the situation is so bad that you cant live in peace God will make a way out for you, I guess thats why marriages to unbelievers or being unequally yoked is warned against. Nobody really wants a divorce but its there because peoples hearts are hard.
A= the person who is angry
B= the person A is angry with
C= a third person
Trait no. 1: Holding the anger inside. A=>A
Trait no. 2: Can’t hold it, need to share A=>C
Trait 3: A=>B, the confrontation or a better word in a positive atmosphere: openness/ honest toward one another…
My background:
Seen a few on Trait No. 1,
Seen it a lot of trait no.2, so most likely that will be the culture background I have…
Motivation for NO. 2 is
- “out of respect”, yes, can be said: similar to young students talking to each other, talking thrash about a common teacher they have, the students surely will not call the attention of the teachers in front of the class…
- And “out of fear” if the student will confront the teacher privately, he may not articulate the issue very well resulting to more trouble
- and of course a lot of other reasons...
If Trait No. 2 happens when A and B is in equal footing: say between FRIENDS, Husband and Wife, in the office/work, business partners, that will be a NO-NO I think…
Thus, in my opinion, how to approach people it Trait no. 2? : Humility and Gentleness for the STRONG to relate to the WEAK…
Of course, I need to look for Bible verse to support my opinion: a similar case I think is Paul with the Corinthians, it surely reached him some people is saying to him at his back (in red font)… and he started his letters in green font …
Corinthians 10 New International Version (NIV)Paul’s Defense of His Ministry
10 By the humility and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul, who am “timid” when face to face with you, but “bold” toward you when away! 2 I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.
Kind of got things jumbled up here dont you think
Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:
Now I, Paul, appeal to you with the gentleness and kindness of Christ--though I realize you think I am timid in person and bold only when I write from far away.
PAUL Would Not be confessing he was timid. Not ever.
Always check other versions
Blessings
Am trying to make sense of it.
I think Paul admonished some people like the Corinthians face to face but also wrote them a letter. Actually two letters.
(That we know of, in the Bible, he could have written more). To rebuke an elder is not really done, also hard if its your own parents. Paul advises to entreat them.
With children its different again if you are too harsh in your correction they will hide from you.
Among friends it ought to be you are open and honest...dont lie to your friends it ends up hurting them. If they cant handle it or wont listen to you may want to reassess your friendships. This is why Jesus advises tske a witness with you when you confront if them if dont listen to you in private. I have found that....people who operate alone and dont have any other friends in common just be a bit wary. If they dont belong to a church family at all and are not interested its best not to hang out with them so much.
I think Paul admonished some people like the Corinthians face to face but also wrote them a letter. Actually two letters.
(That we know of, in the Bible, he could have written more). To rebuke an elder is not really done, also hard if its your own parents. Paul advises to entreat them.
With children its different again if you are too harsh in your correction they will hide from you.
Among friends it ought to be you are open and honest...dont lie to your friends it ends up hurting them. If they cant handle it or wont listen to you may want to reassess your friendships. This is why Jesus advises tske a witness with you when you confront if them if dont listen to you in private. I have found that....people who operate alone and dont have any other friends in common just be a bit wary. If they dont belong to a church family at all and are not interested its best not to hang out with them so much.
God hates lies point blank.
We are to not ever lie no matter what.
Scripture makes that totally clear.
Blessings
Timid? Paul? Surely he is not…
Those in Trait No. 2, as mentioned: sees hierarchical : in the same manner as Teacher-Student relationship or Doctor-Patient or a Church Pastor/Leader-ordinary church member…
It was mentioned that the “reasoning” of those in Trait No. 2 is “out of respect”: precisely they see things in hierarchical in a Church community… ALTHOUGH their trrait cant “confront”….
And as an observer: those in trait no. 2 can be seen as WEAK in Faith than their Leaders (STRONG in Faith)…
So how to deal with them? Humility of approach....
I know, I belong to the WEAK,: I see and respect Hierarchy in church, community, in a nation.. (although am more of confronational Trait No. 3, i can raise my issues face to face)...
and I know how to approach people like me... or so at least i i think/an opinion : )
I hate being lied to, thats why I said it, if a friend lies to you they are not a friend. I had to learn the hard way because I have had many people lie to me. And they pretended they were friends when they weren't. They thought by lying, they could be friends.
I dont even know how that works. Some people claim that by lying to you they are protecting you from being hurt. um. No.
Humilty is often absent in certain cultures that encourage rebellion and independence. For example certain cultures base their whole society on rebellion and independence from a ruling party. And you see even at the lowest level, children dont respect their elders, or honor their parents. Students disrepect their teachers. Workers try to undermine their bosses.
People that grow up in a culture like that dont understand reverence. They are irreverent.
It is possible to confront someone but in a respectful/kind manner. This is how you apply grace.
I totally get it.
Here is something God has shown me as if late.
Even these little white lies as they call them are dangerous and sin.
Example...wife ask husband if she is looking fat and hubby says oh no dear the pants shrunk you look great KNOWING yea she is about 50 lbs overweight.
I had thought it better to fib then hurt some one but we are to tell the truth.
Thats a tough one but we are to tell the truth.
White lies- are they fibs ...? Or is there such a thing as black lies or red lies...
I had someone constantly ask me did I think she gained weight, I never knew what to say as I am not her scale. i would say I dont know. but she asked me ALL the time everytime I saw her. I dont even know how much she weighed in the first place so I couldnt say yes or no or you gained 2 kilos since I saw you last. Maybe I could have said why dont you step on my bathroom scale each time you see me so I can tell you.
If you have gained weight, couldnt you be able to tell if your clothes didnt fit anymore and you felt heavy it was not as if she was a baby or child so I could pick her up and remark oh youve gotten heavier. I dont know why she asked me because I dont keep tabs on peoples weights. I don't keep a diary or notebook with all the weight of all the people I know!
Maybe its differrent if you husband and wife, I dont know if she asked her husband the same question and what he said. If he knew her real weight which I didnt, he would be able to tell her, after all, he sleeps in the same bed not me.
I did not realise this till a couple of years ago that she had a serious eating problem that she was not willing to deal with. She knew she was eating too much but didnt want to stop. But the thing with people who binge eat, they do it in Secret like the middle of the night when nobodys around, stuff themselves, but during the day they pretend they arent eating all that much.
So what happened was because I wasnt able to confront her about this until she ended up in hosptial then and she just didnt want to talk about it. And she kept me apart from her other friends. I spoke with her husband who confirmed it but again she wouldnt listen to him, or her mother. And because she wasnt in fellowship with any church I couldnt tell it to the church, but I could ask my church friends to pray for her, but I couldnt hang out with her again because she had lied to me several times about doing things she had no intention of doing.
She had always seemd large size to me but I did not know her when she was thin so I had nothing to compare it to, or whether this was normal or not normal, as some people are just naturally bigger than others. Maybe its oversight on my part but I dont judge people on how much they weigh and many women would ask this question and often they would turn it around and remark on MY weight. And I wouldnt even be thinking about it.
Last edited:
Yes, it is possible to confront, even those in Trait No. 2 : "out of respect" that they did not confront Church Leaders.
As i remember (will quote the verse if needed), yes we can confront even Elders of the Church, in privacy, not in public, with witnesesses...
I simply love the WISDOM in that procedure.
And just to add to my previous post, i see it as "brilliant" how Paul tried to "humble" or "make a fool of himself" 2 Corinthians 10, he BOASTS! later on succeding Chapters!
He boast of mundane things in order to RELATE to the Church members who STILL measure things in mundane things...
bobinfaith ,
Greetings Brother,
I was wondering if you were going to follow through with this thread or just allow it to be a free for all?
I had thought you were going to minister unto the BRETHREN here. It has great potential to say the least.
hint hint
Blessings to you and your family
Greetings Brother,
I was wondering if you were going to follow through with this thread or just allow it to be a free for all?
I had thought you were going to minister unto the BRETHREN here. It has great potential to say the least.
hint hint Blessings to you and your family
Dear brothers and sisters;
Like I shared in the first thread, during the past year this topic has become an increasing ongoing discussion in our church Bible study and in my personal walk with Jesus. I wanted to share cultures with my family here at Christian Forum Site.
From reading aha, Fish Catcher Jim and Lanolin's posts are classic examples of culture on the practical and application side of life or scriptures.
For the sake of example, I'm shopping at the super market in my country and confront a person from a different country as we both approach the same express line that accepts 10 items or less. The person argues with me because they have exactly 10 but noticed in my basket I have 11 items. Am I going to get offended because;
1. I felt like a victim of injustice?
2. I don't know this person so how dare they raise their voice to me, in front of others, as we attempt to speak the same language?
3. Do I get offended because this person went out of their way to do an audit of how much is in my basket, thus disqualifying me from the express lane?
4. Who made them the line monitor? Do I work for them?
5. In my heart did this person become my enemy?
6. So on and so on and so on. You get the jist.
There is definitely a barrier here and my flesh could easily trigger judgment on the person, their mood of the day, or they are just the way they are, or I should assume everyone from this person's country would behave the same way?
I thought of John 4 when Jesus confronted the Samaritan woman. Jesus was passing through Samaria with Galilee up north and Judea down south. The king of Assyria had taken captivity of the ten tribes, afterward the poor were left behind, many of them Jews establishing their own community. They worshiped God of Israel with their own temple but had bitterness toward the Jews in Jerusalem and their own temple. There was great divide between the Samaritans and the Jews. The woman had heard of Christ, but because of her culture and lifestyle, did not accept Him, even as He and the 12 disciples were going to Jerusalem. Jesus is the greatest example of the Samaritan woman in developing a "common ground" and when Jesus left she believed!
Going back to the person in the express line. My spirit prompted me let go of the 5 options, and give up my rights for that situation, to love this person, respect them by letting them go ahead of me. Also, I only had 8 items, not 11. Had I gotten quick to anger I may not have even known how many items was in thy basket. Once I asked the person to go ahead of me, I could feel the other person drop their guard between us and form a common ground of respect. I believe Jesus was breaking down the barrier of cross culture (I always wear my cross in public) and allowed Himself to be revealed in that situation. In the end, God gets the credit, the glory.
The case of #1 was an elderly man. #2 were a few women, but could have gone both ways.
In both culture settings I actually sat down with #1. We did not arrive at a conclusion of his problem so he could live happily ever after. He still has to "work it out" but this paved the way for him. I could discern he felt better after releasing his anger and unhappiness because he was being heard. I don't agree why he let it build up to the point of bitter sickness. But we both agreed in Christ, on the scripture and decided to let God work through the process of his problem. It will take time but what matters is we got it out in the open.
I also sat down with #2 and this was more delicate so I had other women in the church sit with me for accountability since I don't sit one on one with women in the church. They felt they went behind the back of the person they had a grievance with out of respect, thus justifying gossiping to others. But the truth was, they didn't have the courage to go face to face. I found this difficult so I revealed the scriptures in Psalm 50:19-21, James 4:11-12, Ephesians 4:29, Matthew 7:1-5 and 18:15, all teach against letting down the guard of our tongues. Instead of me preaching, lecturing or scolding them, I asked them to give me their interpretation of the scriptures.
They confessed there is no bibilical teaching for respecting another by gossiping behind their back. They became quiet and began to cry. I kept my mouth shut and we all sat closer together and prayed. This may seem familiar with most of our cultures but this was clearly an example of their culture that has gone on for centuries. Some cultures cannot withstand confrontation, even mild confrontation. #2 did reconcile with the other party, its taking time to heal but I truly believe Christ is leading us all to restoration.
We really have to understand the measure of lying and is definitely included in cross-culture or in-culture. The measure of lying is a very difficult point because we are not to lie, great or tiny. I find that choosing our words wisely before we speak is a tough application but can happen and there is scripture to help us. Proverbs 21:23, Proverbs 26:20, Matthew 15:11 and Colossians 4:6 teaches us about taming our tongue from evil, lying and contradicting ourselves.
Can I follow all examples just by reading the Bible? The Bible is a benefit because first of all, its the Truth, and God gives instruction and leads the way for all situations. We need to understand In-culture and cross-culture because its about people. Its about bringing all to Christ Jesus. But is not all the same approach to the practical application of scripture.
But by taking the initiative to read and study the Bible, get involved with ALL people, and through constant prayer, Jesus will be there to help us develop that common ground as Jesus did with the Samaritan woman.
Jesus is giving us practical advice to resolve our differences with our brothers, sisters and even our enemies, before it causes more injustice of our custom rights. Jesus taught a new understanding and response to this injustice. As Christians, when we confront culture issues, instead of demanding rights, give them up freely. It is more important to give justice and mercy than to receive it.
God bless you all, and thank you for this fellowship. If there is more then lets keep it going.
Like I shared in the first thread, during the past year this topic has become an increasing ongoing discussion in our church Bible study and in my personal walk with Jesus. I wanted to share cultures with my family here at Christian Forum Site.
From reading aha, Fish Catcher Jim and Lanolin's posts are classic examples of culture on the practical and application side of life or scriptures.
For the sake of example, I'm shopping at the super market in my country and confront a person from a different country as we both approach the same express line that accepts 10 items or less. The person argues with me because they have exactly 10 but noticed in my basket I have 11 items. Am I going to get offended because;
1. I felt like a victim of injustice?
2. I don't know this person so how dare they raise their voice to me, in front of others, as we attempt to speak the same language?
3. Do I get offended because this person went out of their way to do an audit of how much is in my basket, thus disqualifying me from the express lane?
4. Who made them the line monitor? Do I work for them?
5. In my heart did this person become my enemy?
6. So on and so on and so on. You get the jist.
There is definitely a barrier here and my flesh could easily trigger judgment on the person, their mood of the day, or they are just the way they are, or I should assume everyone from this person's country would behave the same way?
I thought of John 4 when Jesus confronted the Samaritan woman. Jesus was passing through Samaria with Galilee up north and Judea down south. The king of Assyria had taken captivity of the ten tribes, afterward the poor were left behind, many of them Jews establishing their own community. They worshiped God of Israel with their own temple but had bitterness toward the Jews in Jerusalem and their own temple. There was great divide between the Samaritans and the Jews. The woman had heard of Christ, but because of her culture and lifestyle, did not accept Him, even as He and the 12 disciples were going to Jerusalem. Jesus is the greatest example of the Samaritan woman in developing a "common ground" and when Jesus left she believed!
Going back to the person in the express line. My spirit prompted me let go of the 5 options, and give up my rights for that situation, to love this person, respect them by letting them go ahead of me. Also, I only had 8 items, not 11. Had I gotten quick to anger I may not have even known how many items was in thy basket. Once I asked the person to go ahead of me, I could feel the other person drop their guard between us and form a common ground of respect. I believe Jesus was breaking down the barrier of cross culture (I always wear my cross in public) and allowed Himself to be revealed in that situation. In the end, God gets the credit, the glory.
The case of #1 was an elderly man. #2 were a few women, but could have gone both ways.
In both culture settings I actually sat down with #1. We did not arrive at a conclusion of his problem so he could live happily ever after. He still has to "work it out" but this paved the way for him. I could discern he felt better after releasing his anger and unhappiness because he was being heard. I don't agree why he let it build up to the point of bitter sickness. But we both agreed in Christ, on the scripture and decided to let God work through the process of his problem. It will take time but what matters is we got it out in the open.
I also sat down with #2 and this was more delicate so I had other women in the church sit with me for accountability since I don't sit one on one with women in the church. They felt they went behind the back of the person they had a grievance with out of respect, thus justifying gossiping to others. But the truth was, they didn't have the courage to go face to face. I found this difficult so I revealed the scriptures in Psalm 50:19-21, James 4:11-12, Ephesians 4:29, Matthew 7:1-5 and 18:15, all teach against letting down the guard of our tongues. Instead of me preaching, lecturing or scolding them, I asked them to give me their interpretation of the scriptures.
They confessed there is no bibilical teaching for respecting another by gossiping behind their back. They became quiet and began to cry. I kept my mouth shut and we all sat closer together and prayed. This may seem familiar with most of our cultures but this was clearly an example of their culture that has gone on for centuries. Some cultures cannot withstand confrontation, even mild confrontation. #2 did reconcile with the other party, its taking time to heal but I truly believe Christ is leading us all to restoration.
We really have to understand the measure of lying and is definitely included in cross-culture or in-culture. The measure of lying is a very difficult point because we are not to lie, great or tiny. I find that choosing our words wisely before we speak is a tough application but can happen and there is scripture to help us. Proverbs 21:23, Proverbs 26:20, Matthew 15:11 and Colossians 4:6 teaches us about taming our tongue from evil, lying and contradicting ourselves.
Can I follow all examples just by reading the Bible? The Bible is a benefit because first of all, its the Truth, and God gives instruction and leads the way for all situations. We need to understand In-culture and cross-culture because its about people. Its about bringing all to Christ Jesus. But is not all the same approach to the practical application of scripture.
But by taking the initiative to read and study the Bible, get involved with ALL people, and through constant prayer, Jesus will be there to help us develop that common ground as Jesus did with the Samaritan woman.
Jesus is giving us practical advice to resolve our differences with our brothers, sisters and even our enemies, before it causes more injustice of our custom rights. Jesus taught a new understanding and response to this injustice. As Christians, when we confront culture issues, instead of demanding rights, give them up freely. It is more important to give justice and mercy than to receive it.
God bless you all, and thank you for this fellowship. If there is more then lets keep it going.
Greetings,
I really do not understand all these different cases at all.
1. When you are in offense - you are not in Faith.
2. Scripture tells us that the Father HATES Lies.
If you are walking in Love you will walk in Forgiveness, peace and joy.
You WILL make your flesh submit unto Love everytime.
You won't keep a record of wrong even if you were done wrong.
Blessings
I really do not understand all these different cases at all.
1. When you are in offense - you are not in Faith.
2. Scripture tells us that the Father HATES Lies.
If you are walking in Love you will walk in Forgiveness, peace and joy.
You WILL make your flesh submit unto Love everytime.
You won't keep a record of wrong even if you were done wrong.
Blessings
Um, why do you assume a person is from a different country how do you know. If you are in the SAME country, unless that person is a tourist, you are both living in the same country now. So Why should you treat that person differently? I dont get it.
Unless your supermarket is right on the border of the country...?
Unless your supermarket is right on the border of the country...?
Good morning, brothers and sisters;
The supermarket is in the heart of my community. The person in the supermarket immigrated from another country and has lived in the Bay Area for a short time. Since that incident he and I have seen each other but under wonderful circumstances. We greet each other with a smile and the last time we shook hands.
Have you heard the saying, what would Jesus do? In my testimony, look what Jesus did!
God bless you all and your family.
The supermarket is in the heart of my community. The person in the supermarket immigrated from another country and has lived in the Bay Area for a short time. Since that incident he and I have seen each other but under wonderful circumstances. We greet each other with a smile and the last time we shook hands.
Have you heard the saying, what would Jesus do? In my testimony, look what Jesus did!
God bless you all and your family.