In-Culture Cross-Culture

Jesus actually cursed the fig tree when it wasnt fruiting, and it died.
The thing is, someone who doesnt know about trees would just leave it unfruitful. If you cut a tree down to a stump, it even has a chance to regenerate, but if you just leave it to rot off, just because you dont like change, thats worse than useless.

I dont know about 'society' changing am always sceptical of what people mean when they say 'society has to change' it really starts with individual hearts.

The new winsekins parable also parallels the new garments parable. This is where Jesus says you cant just patch up an old garment you will make it worse. Its better to just have a brand new garment! Think of it a bit like windows vs apple. Windows is always forever putting new patches on old systems, wheras apple is a more intentional about the entire design of their products.

I worked in the 'information' industry for many years i,e the library. The way many people process information is different, the packages that information can come in, like books, need to be constantly renewed. If you dont renew your library stock it becomes stagnant, mouldy and dusty, and nobody wants to read a mouldy old book. Its like websites, if you dont ever update them, they become outdated. Its not that say the wineskins or garment are completely different, its still a wineskin and its still a garment functioning with the same purpose its that Jesus wants the packaging to be renewed so he can fill us afresh.
 
Lanolin said:
I dont know about 'society' changing am always sceptical of what people mean when they say 'society has to change' it really starts with individual hearts.
Click to expand...

Hi Lanolin;

You made a good point. It was interesting that you wrote not knowing about society changing that leaves you sceptical. I feel you just answered the scepticism when you said it has to start with individuals, and it has. Individuals that move the hearts of other individuals that form a society, especially a society of believers.

Jesus was the master example of societal change, meaning many people were receiving of Jesus' teachings and went on to follow Him.

At the library please research the book, "What really happened at "Azusa Street?" by Frank Bartleman, is a great example of change within an individual. A man of God, preacher evangelist named William J. Seymour led a revival in Los Angeles on
April 9, 1906 called the Azusa Street Revival. The old building was overflowing with people who came to Christ Jesus and their lives were changed forever.

On April 18, 1906, just 9 days later, San Francisco suffered the great earthquake. Many of those new believers from Los Angeles traveled 6 hours north to help in any way they could. Individual hearts.

I feel it is important to be aware of in-culture cross-culture to help us understand as Christians the challenges so we know how to pray for God to move individual hearts and each of us for His Kingdom.

God bless you and your family.
 
Thanks for the recommendation but I cant find this particular book in my library however I've read a few others on revival, like the Welsh revival and there was a local one in Tauranga in the 70s.

Going back to topic, I really dont know how to respond to someone who says unkind things about others to their face. I dont know if its a culture thing, for people just to comment on peoples appearance or how much money they earning.
To forgive them, well how do you do this if this is what they do ALL the time and they dont know its wrong and highly offensive or insensitive. I can not take it personally, but its kind of hard to when this person makes these comments only to me in front of everyone else.

I can think well shes just being 'motherly' in a way, but again, do everyones mothers feel fit to just poke their noses into your business?! Would me gaining 20 kilos make her happy, or if I suddenly landed a job that earned 50 k or told her well I dont have to work like you Im retired, and btw I won lotto!

Whatever happened to normal conversation like- well thats a yummy dessert praise the lord or thank the Lord its Sunday and He's given us the day off!

Maybe the pastors of this church can have a sermon on how to have a good conversation in Christ.
 
Hi Lanolin,

I understand where you are coming from when you mentioned:

Going back to topic, I really dont know how to respond to someone who says unkind things about others to their face. I dont know if its a culture thing, for people just to comment on peoples appearance or how much money they earning.
To forgive them, well how do you do this if this is what they do ALL the time and they dont know its wrong and highly offensive or insensitive. I can not take it personally, but its kind of hard to when this person makes these comments only to me in front of everyone else.

I can think well shes just being 'motherly' in a way, but again, do everyones mothers feel fit to just poke their noses into your business?! Would me gaining 20 kilos make her happy, or if I suddenly landed a job that earned 50 k or told her well I dont have to work like you Im retired, and btw I won lotto!
Click to expand...

Sister Lanolin, I believe the best way for you to overcome that is to love her and see her like how Jesus sees her.
I will share a story below and I believe this is one of the best illustration of what kindness and love does to a person.


A long time ago in China, a girl named Li-Li got married and went to live with her husband and mother-in-law.

In a very short time, Li-Li found that she couldn’t get along with her mother-in-law at all. Their personalities were very different, and Li-Li was angered by many of her mother-in-law’s habits. In addition, she criticized Li-Li constantly.

Days passed days, and weeks passed weeks. Li-Li and her mother-in-law never stopped arguing and fighting. But what made the situation even worse was that, according to ancient Chinese tradition, Li-Li had to bow to her mother-in-law and obey her every wish. All the anger and unhappiness in the house was causing the poor husband great distress.


Finally, Li-Li could not stand her mother-in-law’s bad temper and dictatorship any longer, and she decided to do something about it.

Li-Li went to see her father’s good friend, Mr. Huang, who sold herbs. She told him the situation and asked if he would give her some poison so that she could solve the problem once and for all. Mr. Huang thought for a while, and finally said, “Li-Li, I will help you solve your problem, but you must listen to me and obey what I tell you.”

Li-Li said, “Yes, Mr. Huang, I will do whatever you tell me to do.” Mr. Huang went into the back room, and returned in a few minutes with a package of herbs.

He told Li-Li, “You can’t use a quick-acting poison to get rid of your mother-in-law, because that would cause people to become suspicious. Therefore, I have given you a number of herbs that will slowly build up poison in her body. Every other day prepare some delicious meal and put a little of these herbs in her serving. Now, in order to make sure that nobody suspects you when she dies, you must be very careful to act very friendly towards her. Don’t argue with her, obey her every wish, and treat her like a queen.”

Li-Li was so happy. She thanked Mr. Huang and hurried home to start her plot of murdering her mother-in-law.

Weeks went by, months went by, and every other day, Li-Li served the specially treated food to her mother-in-law. She remembered what Mr. Huang had said about avoiding suspicion, so she controlled her temper, obeyed her mother-in-law, and treated her like her own mother. After six months had passed, the whole household had changed.

Li-Li had practiced controlling her temper so much that she found that she almost never got mad or upset. She hadn’t had an argument in six months with her mother-in-law, who now seemed much kinder and easier to get along with.

The mother-in-law’s attitude toward Li-Li changed, and she began to love Li-Li like her own daughter. She kept telling friends and relatives that Li-Li was the best daughter-in-law one could ever find. Li-Li and her mother-in-law were now treating each other like a real mother and daughter.

Li-Li’s husband was very happy to see what was happening.

One day, Li-Li came to see Mr. Huang and asked for his help again. She said, “Mr. Huang, please help me to stop the poison from killing my mother-in-law! She’s changed into such a nice woman, and I love her like my own mother. I do not want her to die because of the poison I gave her.”

Mr. Huang smiled and nodded his head. “Li-Li, there’s nothing to worry about. I never gave you any poison. The herbs I gave you were vitamins to improve her health. The only poison was in your mind and your attitude toward her, but that has been all washed away by the love which you gave to her.”

Author Unknown

God bless you Lanolin, and may the love of Jesus flow mightily through you, that will touch the hearts of the people around you and through you, they will come to know Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior!

Hugs,
 
Lol good story, although I dont have a mother in law.

I have learned that mothers can be awful bullies and they can play favourites. In some kind of perverse reverse pyschology, they pick on the ones they love the most. Maybe its the privelige of being a mother I dont know! A common saying it 'mum will kill me if she found out' notice, its never 'dad will kill me' its always mum.

Remember when stories used to have morals? People would say, and the moral of the story is...well for this one it 'kindness leads to repentence.'

But often us bullied children comisserate amongst ourselves and wish our bully parents would take a chill pill.

I once had a bully boss. She picked on me especially because she somehow felt threatened (had the misfortune of earning a higher degree, and people said I was the one who should be running the library) so she tried to run me out of the job. I once said would you be happy if I left. She made no comment except 'if thats your decision I cant stop you' I was so tired of it that i was asking a therapist what to do. She thought for a bit and said make her cakes for morning tea. Then she will stop being mean. I make terrible cakes, but i could always give her secret santa. My workmates just said 'keep your head down and do your job' so I did even though the job was killing me (thats why I made frequent visits to the therapist, and this was costing an arm and a leg). Well I never got any recognition in this job, nor the bosses approval. When everyone else had a pay rise, I got none. But one day it was announced the organsiation was being restructued and she was being made redundant. We had a big going away party for her. We all wrote nice things in her leaving book. At the end of the party. She got up and told us she was going to make a big speech and all but she wasnt going to do that after all, all she said, and it surprised us all, was that she loved us. And that was the one thing she learned in this job.

Our boss loved us?! We were gobsmacked. And she was only telling us now as she was leaving us. But thats ok. Miracle.
 
Confrontation is not easy if the other party refuses to listen to you. Matthew 18 then advises us to take another witness and talk to them, but if they still wont hear you, tell it to the church. And if still refusing, treat that person as an unbeliever. I.e you cant hold them to the same standard.

I think in many cases, whats happened is the other party has failed to listen even in front of others, which is why, people are telling it to the church. Everyone then knows about it. I cant think of any time where its becomes so bad that someone had to tell the church but usually because that person isnt listening anyway, even if they are in the church, they wont hear. When a person goes to a pastor with a problem with another member, its because they have tried to confront that person by themselves but that person hasnt listened. I wouldnt be so quick to say they are gossipping about them. A person will go to maybe their pastor or a mutual friend in an attempt to resolve this problem, who is then supposed to go to the other party TOGETHER to resolve it. Where it may fall down is if the witness or mutual friend or pastor fails to do this.

So the next time someone seems to complain about someone elses behaviour, instead of just listening how about actually doing something about it and going with that person in question and talking about it. BLessed are the peacemakers. The whole reason its a problem is because the person wont listen and cant handle it by themselves. Not to say two people are ganging up on one person but its more for that persons best interest bevause when two or three are gathered in my name, Jesus says, there I am in midst. Two witness are needed for anything to be verified.

The hardest thing is to treat someone who does go to church, as an unbeliever. For they go to church, make a show of worshipping, but inside you know their heart isnt changed.
 
A confrontational, contentious or combative spirit can fit in the description of in-culture or cross-culture and is an ongoing universal problem in the church. Culture may be different in one church in one country, to another country and to another.

The person who initiates it does not make it easy for the other party who has the prerogative to walk away. They don't have to listen to a person who cannot hold a "civil disagreement" in the name of Jesus, who resort to name calling, make disrespectful, judgmental comments, and cower to gossip.

Problem is, Christians in the church feel that a "one on one" confrontation is to be endured. Not so. Aggressive, argumentative manners to the point of verbal abuse is confrontation. We are not on forced will with the person being disrespectful, but have the free will to protect ourselves from confrontation by walking away or refrain from being baited to respond.

Confrontation breeds confrontation, if we let it.

Now, if a disagreement remains civil, it is a good witness for the person who initiated the disagreement to go back and speak with the other. Break down the barriers of a bruised ego and pride. If you have something to say to the other person, go back to them, in love, and make it right. What matters is you made the effort.

A great example is our families in cross-culture. There have been sad breakdowns in family communication but I have observed the breakdown from one family and country may be different with a family from another country. Bottom line is confrontation exists. Many times we endure our own family "customs and in house religion" and usually starts with the heads of families that find change difficult or literally don't show the love.

I can think of many examples of this type when someone in the church body, cyberspace or unbelievers come to me with a breakdown in a conversation with another brother or sister, or family member. Most of the time it was a civil or family disagreement. I always encourage them to go back to the other and speak to them. Most of the time they're afraid how the other party will react. In times when one on one is not possible, I will meet with both parties as their pastor to maintain calm.

Some are afraid of getting slapped (to put it mildy). Violence is another issue from victims that I have dealt with in ministry, and I have had to get the authorities involved, fortunately not always but have. This is for another topic.

We want things to arrive at resolve, but we just don't know how to fix the problem. To help keep the conversation civil, don't make one question "fit all." Stay within the context of the original conversation. If the conversation expands, ask the right question taking the context in a new direction of what is being discussed. Nine times out of ten this will help minimize disagreements that can escalate to confrontation.

What matters in Scripture is everyone has the potential to go to the other party in love and truth. This has nothing to do with culture but everything to do with God's grace, which is universal. God is always watching our hearts and efforts to make right, reconcile and process restoration.

If we, as the body of Christ, can let go, come together and agree; In-culture and cross-culture does exist in so many variables, but the gospel always has the promise of solution for all of us who follow Christ.

God bless you and your families.
 
Am talking about what God says to do in Matthew 18. If everyone followed that would be fine.
If someone has to go to a pastor or someone else that means that they are unable to sort it out one on one already, as I have said, it would be because the other person hasnt listened. JEsus shows us that we need another person to help make peace because that person who offended may in fact listen to another person as long as you are with them.

Most people are able to sort out their differences. You cant make someone go back and keep trying to reason or confront someone when the other party refuses to listen. Perhaps they have tried MANY times.

Personally I dont think this has anything to do with culture. When you live in a family, you cant avoid each other. If you share a room, or house youve got to learn to put up with each other and forgive one another! If you cant do that, thats a reason why people separate and divorce these days they just cant bear living together. Theres a reason why we have buildings called 'apartments' and they are not called 'togetherments' for people who dont want their families around. All in their own little cells, having their own meals all by themselves and never sharing.

Jesus asks that we make peace and come to the table together. I imagine Jesus has better table manners than to criticise people for what they eat or dont eat, or to boast of how much money they earned or ask what people do! He wants is to enjoy the food, give thanks and remember Him, not argue petty things amongst ourselves who gets to sit where etc.
 
Hello, Lanolin;

I'm not pinpointing your views here, but instead adding them to contribution of the variables, and has everything to do with what we are discussing, indeed, regarding in-culture and cross-culture.

Personally, and unfortunately, cultures can lead to break down with families, marriages and avoiding each other. Sure, the end result are these togetherments, sadly, as you share, does exist. We cannot ignore it.

Matthew 18:15 figures in but lets not forget the teachings of Psalm 50:19-21, James 4:11-12, Ephesians 4:29, Matthew 7:1-5 and Titus 3:10-11.

We cannot limit the variables in-culture and cross-culture but that doesn't mean there cannot be solutions when God's Hand is in it, one person, one family or one church at a time.

I have personally seen how cultures can break down the walls and coexist as one body of Christ in our churches, communities and families.

Jesus asks that we make peace. Absolutely! We have the potential to be solution minded when it comes to challenges with cultures. It begins with Him!

God bless you and your family.
 
Its not culture, its just sinful nature, I would say.
I wouldnt blame culture and start stereotyping people just because they come from a different looking background. For example, I work in retirement villages and while the majority of people living there might have come from certain areaa of the world, actually, there are people that come from all over. The thing is all of them are living there and are of the baby boom generation, away from their families.

The baby boom generation never forsaw what would happen to the next generation after them. They took everything the government has to offer them being the majority, and have left nothing for the next, not understanding that their way of life makes it unsustainable for the next generation. This is why young people these days are in tremendous amounts of debt they can hardly repay and have to make their own way in the world, their inheritance is denied them.

I sometimes see this divide in some churches where the elders rude roughshod over the younger. They dont teach them, they ignore them, or criticise them harshly, they make them sit at the back of the church, they are rude to them. They claim that its the younger generations fault that they cant meet the standard of living they enjoyed, well, back then, they had free education, free housing, jobs were plentiful, to start a new family was easy, even encouraged. Plus they have social security, our generstion may not even have that. You could live the dream. Today youths dreams are uncertain. Theres hugh suicide rate. Working hard often gets you nowhere. Marriage is hard..grandparents often refuse to help or acknowledge their grandchildren . Owning a home is hard, because job security is non existent. The so called sexual revolution messed up an entire generation. Children have to be dropped off at daycare while both parents work to pay for this day care. Its crazy. Parents mock their children and call them kids, and act like they dont need to look after them. Its not that the children have anything to really rebel against, its the parents whove rebelled against God, and the children, by following their example are the ones labelled by their parents as rebellious.

One sscripture that sheds some light on this is Malachi 4:6

Its says he will turn the Fathers heart to the children and the childrens heart to their fathers, lest I smite this land with a curse.

It was talking about elijah the prophet, and we see John the baptist came and paved the way for Jesus, but what did John ask people to do first? Repent. Turn. People cant see how their sin is hurting their children. But its children that often bear the brunt of their parents sin because its displaced on them, and they are the scapegoats. When Jesus introduced God to the israelites, he didnt talk about God as a judge, or a lawgiver, or a big boss. he talked about God as their Father, and the isralites as his children. They already thought they knew who God was, someone who punished and they could call on to smite their enemies so they could live a good life. Someone unaproachable who had holy standards they could never keep. Someone who was absent and distant.

But they didnt really, truly know Him as their Father, who they called talk to and come into his presence at anytime. JEsus made a way. Jesus is the prince of peace. Not the peace the world gives us, but the peace that passeth all undesrstanding. He reconciles us back to God. He brings families back together. At the time there was a big split between the house of Israel and the house of Judah. So much so they had to have two separate kingdoms. The circumstance of Jesus birth was that he could claim the throne to both, in reality there was only meant to be one kingdom - with twelve gates for each tribe. Judah tried to exalt itself over the others. It made itself into another culture separate from the rest - what today is known as judaism. So much so they excluded the rest of the family from Gods presence. GOd wasnt pleased with that!
 
Lanolin said:
Its not culture, its just sinful nature, I would say.
I wouldnt blame culture and start stereotyping people just because they come from a different looking background. For example, I work in retirement villages and while the majority of people living there might have come from certain areaa of the world, actually, there are people that come from all over. The thing is all of them are living there and are of the baby boom generation, away from their families.
JEsus made a way. Jesus is the prince of peace. Not the peace the world gives us, but the peace that passeth all undesrstanding.
Click to expand...

We shouldn't blame culture nor stereotype people.

Thank you for sharing.

God bless you and your family.
 
Lanolin said:
I sometimes see this divide in some churches where the elders rude roughshod over the younger. They dont teach them, they ignore them, or criticise them harshly, they make them sit at the back of the church, they are rude to them. They claim that its the younger generations fault that they cant meet the standard of living they enjoyed, well, back then, they had free education, free housing, jobs were plentiful, to start a new family was easy, even encouraged. Plus they have social security, our generstion may not even have that. You could live the dream. Today youths dreams are uncertain. Theres hugh suicide rate. Working hard often gets you nowhere. Marriage is hard..grandparents often refuse to help or acknowledge their grandchildren . Owning a home is hard, because job security is non existent. The so called sexual revolution messed up an entire generation. Children have to be dropped off at daycare while both parents work to pay for this day care. Its crazy. Parents mock their children and call them kids, and act like they dont need to look after them. Its not that the children have anything to really rebel against, its the parents whove rebelled against God, and the children, by following their example are the ones labelled by their parents as rebellious.
One sscripture that sheds some light on this is Malachi 4:6
Click to expand...

Hello, Lanolin;

Lets give the culture thing a break.

I also came across your paragraph about divide and Malachi 4:6. This is a lot of heavy stuff and am really interested why is this on your heart, sister?

God bless you.
Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top