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Is Christmas Truly A Christian Celebration?
- Thread starter Mohamad_1996
- Start date
@calvin Thank you for the reminder using the Hadith, I should have been more careful before talking about such things.
Nonetheless, I really hate it when people think the worst about other peoples intentions, If I had enough forethought I would have refrained from saying Austrilia was a colonized country brought from genocide.
Did you also know that publicizing someones sins is also forbidden? It would have been better If you had PM'd me rather then insult me or suggest that I am a man who speaks lies and when called out I "run with my tail between my legs"
That was really uncalled for.
Nonetheless, I really hate it when people think the worst about other peoples intentions, If I had enough forethought I would have refrained from saying Austrilia was a colonized country brought from genocide.
Did you also know that publicizing someones sins is also forbidden? It would have been better If you had PM'd me rather then insult me or suggest that I am a man who speaks lies and when called out I "run with my tail between my legs"
That was really uncalled for.
If you strive to reveal the sins of others and publicly humiliate them Allah/God will Humiliate you in front of all His creation on the day of judgement.
If God makes a sin hidden, leave it so.
and stop using what your religion is as an excuse, Christians who are my friends, are my neighbors, or I knew in the middle east would say the same thing. What you don't understand is that you lack any foundation for many of your beliefs. You way of life.
YOUR RELIGION - Isn't really Christianity, rather it's just opinions. There are so many paths to choose, so many questions unanswered, it leaves you with your opinion. and your opinion Calvin, Is NOT popular.
I'll admit that I don't know everything there is to know about Islamic law. I won't even claim to know everything there is to know about Christian "law" with the exception that it is not the "Law" that defines us, but the freedom bought with a great price.
To Mohamad I say, it does not good to bicker here. There are too many entrenched beliefs, it's just not going to be productive. Share and learn, but wisdom should tell you not to engage. Obviously there are some very strong opinions on both sides, and right now the majority here do not trust you. You cannot argue someone into Heaven. Your words will fall on deaf ears unless those ears already trust that you are looking after their best interest.
To the rest (speaking to nobody in specific), I'm really trying to divine your purpose with these challenges, not only with Mohamad but with all who don't agree with you on everything. If you are trying to persuade others that Jesus is our Savior, then I do not understand why you would so quickly turn your swords on someone who has been very obviously misinformed. The Pharisees biggest sin was to put the Law before Love, before the people whom God loved, and before even God Himself.
To the issue of exposing sin, I do not believe that it was a sin that was exposed, but an error in information. He gave a true witness of false information, that is very different from giving false witness. He was wrong in his information. I've been guilty of that as well, as I'm sure everyone here has. If anyone actually believes they haven't ever been wrong, then arrogance is their sin. IF he had genuinely been guilty of sin, and was intentionally trying to deceive, I believe that even our own Bible agrees with Islam on this point at least. While there are no secrets in the transparent Christian life, we are commanded to first approach a brother in private and then with the elders before separating them from the flock. He may not be our brother in Christ, but I believe that is still the appropriate response. Even with the greatest of Heathens, God often left them to their immorality. Correct the falsehood, but please stop rubbing it in. You do nobody a kindness.
The biggest problem I'm seeing here is that I'm seeing a distinct lack of love and grace, when these should be our defining characteristics. I understand that his topic appears to be an attack, but if anyone had taken a moment to engage him, it shouldn't be too difficult to see that he's actually trying to understand what he has seen as an hypocrisy. Why then would you add reason for his charge against us?
To Mohamad I say, it does not good to bicker here. There are too many entrenched beliefs, it's just not going to be productive. Share and learn, but wisdom should tell you not to engage. Obviously there are some very strong opinions on both sides, and right now the majority here do not trust you. You cannot argue someone into Heaven. Your words will fall on deaf ears unless those ears already trust that you are looking after their best interest.
To the rest (speaking to nobody in specific), I'm really trying to divine your purpose with these challenges, not only with Mohamad but with all who don't agree with you on everything. If you are trying to persuade others that Jesus is our Savior, then I do not understand why you would so quickly turn your swords on someone who has been very obviously misinformed. The Pharisees biggest sin was to put the Law before Love, before the people whom God loved, and before even God Himself.
To the issue of exposing sin, I do not believe that it was a sin that was exposed, but an error in information. He gave a true witness of false information, that is very different from giving false witness. He was wrong in his information. I've been guilty of that as well, as I'm sure everyone here has. If anyone actually believes they haven't ever been wrong, then arrogance is their sin. IF he had genuinely been guilty of sin, and was intentionally trying to deceive, I believe that even our own Bible agrees with Islam on this point at least. While there are no secrets in the transparent Christian life, we are commanded to first approach a brother in private and then with the elders before separating them from the flock. He may not be our brother in Christ, but I believe that is still the appropriate response. Even with the greatest of Heathens, God often left them to their immorality. Correct the falsehood, but please stop rubbing it in. You do nobody a kindness.
The biggest problem I'm seeing here is that I'm seeing a distinct lack of love and grace, when these should be our defining characteristics. I understand that his topic appears to be an attack, but if anyone had taken a moment to engage him, it shouldn't be too difficult to see that he's actually trying to understand what he has seen as an hypocrisy. Why then would you add reason for his charge against us?
I disagree .. he made blatant false claims and denigrated the Christian Faith ..
nor did he actually try to understand what he has seen as an hypocrisy ..
if that was so, he would not have made statements but asked questions ..
I have never gone on an Islamic site and made such statements as he did ..
do you want to know why ???
because I show respect .. something he lacks ..
perhaps it is those like him that give charge against Islam ..
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I celebrated that God promised long ago that He would be our savior, and did come to earth out of His Love and Mercy to be born in the flesh and crucify sin in the flesh .. so as to remove the curse placed on mankind through Adam and Eve, and all sins repented .. and so bringing us a new covenant .. YES .. His Love and Mercy of coming to fulfill that promise of a plan of Redemption is worth celebrating ..
so I ask, how is that foolish and Eid al-Fitr not foolish ???
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Dont know what Eid al-Firt is so dont care. Either way no where are we told to celebrate Jesus birthday. Especially with so many pagan customs added to it.
If you want to celebrate , go ahead.
nor are we told to celibate His resurrection .. but I do and will as well ..
I don't celibate adding any pagan customs .. no Christmas tree .. no Easter eggs etc ..
Birthdays are also pagan originated and bible tells us not to partake. But im sure you knew that.
lol .. I'm at the age I dread them anyway ..
But you celebrate Christ birthday. Simply the point I am making here. Not judging though.
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@ ixoye
In reference to the original Qur'an, The Arabic language had different ways of being spoken.
approximately seven. There was a Qur'an written according to each way, out of concern of disunity due to people claiming one way of reading is greater then another Uthman (May Allah be pleased with him) Burned them all and only left the way the Prophet use to read them, in the Qurashi dialect. As for the oldest Qur'an found in yemen being in anyway different to what we have to do. I do not believe that to be more then heresy.
As for what I said to Calvin, I agree with you on a lot of those points Ixoye.
Because Islam also tells us to publicly punish those who commit sins deserving of such (sexual intercourse out of wedlock - 100 whips)
It also tells us to rebuke them so that we may hopefully stop them.
But it does NOT tell us to mock them - or insult them or to publicize their minor sins - mistakes etc.
Anyway, I believe the mod covered my intentions correctly. I'm just wondering about eating pork.
Is that completely undone in Christianity? As the other two Ibrahimic religions have them forbidden. And Jesus (peace be upon him)
Himself said not to eat the flesh of swine, and the only one to say otherwise was paul. I mean, can it be certain that Paul was truthful in witnessing and speaking for Jesus? (peace be upon him) I mean If I said I saw Jesus and he told me to say that everything he said was forbidden in front of all of you is not anymore.
Would you easily believe me? and Is that how it actually is? Or did paul bring other evidence-proofs to his claims of being able to see and speak to Jesus (peace be upon him) ?
Because from what I've read many of his teachings contradict what Jesus taught when he was alive.
BTW To Calvin who will likely jump out and start saying "Your insulting paul! Your making disunity!" No I'm sincerely asking about paul's origins and the amount of faith being put in his words since Christianity is heavily influenced by him.
In reference to the original Qur'an, The Arabic language had different ways of being spoken.
approximately seven. There was a Qur'an written according to each way, out of concern of disunity due to people claiming one way of reading is greater then another Uthman (May Allah be pleased with him) Burned them all and only left the way the Prophet use to read them, in the Qurashi dialect. As for the oldest Qur'an found in yemen being in anyway different to what we have to do. I do not believe that to be more then heresy.
As for what I said to Calvin, I agree with you on a lot of those points Ixoye.
Because Islam also tells us to publicly punish those who commit sins deserving of such (sexual intercourse out of wedlock - 100 whips)
It also tells us to rebuke them so that we may hopefully stop them.
But it does NOT tell us to mock them - or insult them or to publicize their minor sins - mistakes etc.
Anyway, I believe the mod covered my intentions correctly. I'm just wondering about eating pork.
Is that completely undone in Christianity? As the other two Ibrahimic religions have them forbidden. And Jesus (peace be upon him)
Himself said not to eat the flesh of swine, and the only one to say otherwise was paul. I mean, can it be certain that Paul was truthful in witnessing and speaking for Jesus? (peace be upon him) I mean If I said I saw Jesus and he told me to say that everything he said was forbidden in front of all of you is not anymore.
Would you easily believe me? and Is that how it actually is? Or did paul bring other evidence-proofs to his claims of being able to see and speak to Jesus (peace be upon him) ?
Because from what I've read many of his teachings contradict what Jesus taught when he was alive.
BTW To Calvin who will likely jump out and start saying "Your insulting paul! Your making disunity!" No I'm sincerely asking about paul's origins and the amount of faith being put in his words since Christianity is heavily influenced by him.
This whole discussion on what is pagan is less than ridiculous.
Pagans breathe air. I breathe air therefore I am a pagan?
Pagans eat food. I eat food, therefore am I a pagan?
Pagans walk upright on two legs. I walk upright on two legs, therefore am I a pagan?
The very name "Christmas" is "Christ" and "Mas" what is pagan about Christ? What is pagan about a Eucharistic, a thanksgiving? (though the term 'mas is a bit fuzzy)
As I pointed out earlier, every day of the year coincides with some pagan act.
And as pointed to but did not provide an exhaustive list for, every year, the month of ramadan coincides with a pagan festival. By tying ramadan to a lunar month, there is a procession through the common years such that it falls on different pagan festivals each year. But that does not make it a pagan festival.
I can only conclude that those who cry out "pagan" at the mention of Christmas or Easter are the sworn enemies of Christ, no matter what cloak they hide behind.
Christmas is attacked as being pagan because those who attack it are attacking the Christ in favor or someone else.
I don't recollect halloween attracting as much criticism, though I don't know much about it except it is related to all saints day.
But then most things are commercially driven. Even the silversmiths of Ephesus were only interested in selling their wares, not in the paganism itself. The Christian message was not so much an affront to their religion, as it was to their income.
xmas is a horse of a different colour, that is secular at best and very very commercial.
Pagans breathe air. I breathe air therefore I am a pagan?
Pagans eat food. I eat food, therefore am I a pagan?
Pagans walk upright on two legs. I walk upright on two legs, therefore am I a pagan?
The very name "Christmas" is "Christ" and "Mas" what is pagan about Christ? What is pagan about a Eucharistic, a thanksgiving? (though the term 'mas is a bit fuzzy)
As I pointed out earlier, every day of the year coincides with some pagan act.
And as pointed to but did not provide an exhaustive list for, every year, the month of ramadan coincides with a pagan festival. By tying ramadan to a lunar month, there is a procession through the common years such that it falls on different pagan festivals each year. But that does not make it a pagan festival.
I can only conclude that those who cry out "pagan" at the mention of Christmas or Easter are the sworn enemies of Christ, no matter what cloak they hide behind.
Christmas is attacked as being pagan because those who attack it are attacking the Christ in favor or someone else.
I don't recollect halloween attracting as much criticism, though I don't know much about it except it is related to all saints day.
But then most things are commercially driven. Even the silversmiths of Ephesus were only interested in selling their wares, not in the paganism itself. The Christian message was not so much an affront to their religion, as it was to their income.
xmas is a horse of a different colour, that is secular at best and very very commercial.
I strongly agree with this. And each year we see the same attacks by persons of the same ilk...it gets to be pretty old.
We are longer bound to the mosaic law
Acts 11:7-9
7 I also heard a voice say to me: ‘Get up, Peter, slaughter and eat!’ 8 But I said: ‘Certainly not, Lord, because a defiled or unclean thing has never entered my mouth.’ 9 The second time, the voice from heaven answered: ‘You stop calling defiled the things God has cleansed.’
Do not ever presume to understand me, or anticipate that/those who you have no understanding of.
Firstly, Jesus, well exactly who do you refer to when you mention Jesus? Are you referring to the "I am" who gave out the levitical law? Are you talking about the Emmanuel, whose ministry took place around two thousand years ago? I ask this because Jesus, the Emmanuel, never said not to eat swine.
The old testament forbade the eating of swine But Jesus never did. You will be hard put to cite any gospel record where He did so. Of course I refer only to those gospel records which are considered canon.
in point of fact the inference of Peter's encounter as recorded in Acts Chatper 10 suggests that the eating of swine is now permissable. more on this later
So what about this scripture.
Luke 16:17
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
Semantics, who really knows? Rev.12:9 The great dragon was thrown out, that ancient serpent, also known as the Devil and Satan [the Adversary], the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
Just so we can have dissension amongst believers?