Is The Bible Questionable?
- Thread starter bobinfaith
- Start date
(Chuckle) Of course not THEY'RE CALLED SPIRITUAL GIFTS (Charisma) . The Bible can't instill SPECIFIC WISDOM, and SPECIFIC KNOWLEDGE about a SPECIFIC situation that occurs TODAY, and isn't specifically addressed in a document written in 100 A.D.
And you again cite the GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT (with your own terminology). Scripture tends to be unspecific, until the Holy Spirit Empowers it and makes it YOURS - i.e: Spiritual Gifts. ONE of them happens to be "CONVICTION OF SIN" - without which nobody is even Born again. God has to GIFT even saving Faith.
Unless, of course they occur when somebody who's either "Pentecostal"or "Charismatic" Prays, in which case they're probably phony. We know!! Folks have been telling us that for over 100 years now.
But your strongly hinting that if "Charismatics", or "Pentecostals" are involved, they're probably phony.
How about specifically how to handle a PRESENT PROBLEM/SITUATION, or give warning/guidance/instruction/wisdom that's happening NOW!! I've been corrected/disciplined several times over the years by the prophetic Word.
Consequently your evaluation of the prophetic gift in 2021 is that it's likely all PHONY. I've still got my copy of 88 reasons that the rapture will occur in 1988. It proves Biblically beyond a doubt that we'll all be OUTTA HERE in 1988 - except -
You haven't seen anything that I haven't also seen/experienced hundreds of time over the last 57 years. But while I also reject the "TV Crowd", and their excesses, I'm still fully aware of a prevailing reality to the Spiritual giftings operational in the Visible Church today.
Agreed!! however, a Spiritual/Prophetic revelation that doesn't align with a "precious denominational THEOLOGY" may well be pointing out an ERROR in the Denominational paradigm. (Luther was a good example).
Was the "Just by their FAITH shall live" always in the Bible?? Of course. But it was the prophetic Word that made it REAL and dynamic to Luther, and gave him the FAITH to take on the POPE, and all the powers in Rome.
You seem to have carried my meaning beyond anything I had said or intended. Nothing is made false or true on the basis of the participants being "charismatic" or "Pentecostal." Nope. Not my meaning at all. I'm married to a Pentecostal, even though she just passed away this evening to be with the Lord. I still consider her to be my wife.
MM
My Sympathies - It's good to know that the Blessed hope remains in effect, and that temporal losses will be swallowed up in VICTORY in eternity.
Romans 10:17............
"Faith comes by HEARING and hearing from the Word of God".
God has always done what He wanted to do but when we read the Scriptures, miracles were done to confirm the Word of God.
That is not what I said Bob.
You have placed a defensive and personal response of your own opinions which is need the case at all.
God has always done miracles and always will. God has always healed and always will. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with the teaching that MEN today have the ability to perform or call down the Holy Spirit at their pleasure.
James said to ..."CALL THE ELDERS, and the prayers of the faithful would be heard".
ALL Prophetic truth is found in the Word of God Bob.
When you read the Bible what more knowledge would you need or wisdom. When you are saved and fillled with the Holy Spirit you have the Spirit to give you wisdom and discernment.
Now that is the truth.
The "Temporal" gifts given to the Apostles to confirm the Word of God validated that there would be an eternity to them that believed!
My deepest
God love you and know that even though we only know each other through the web site......I feel for you and pray for your family!
My deepest symphyses to you my brother!!!!
God love you and know that even though we only know each other through the web site......I feel for you and pray for your family!
Agreed. That has been my experience as well.
What I have seen, was that no matter how innocent the start was, once a little charismatic operations is allowed, it quickly descends into chaos and confusion and there is No way that God is in such actions.
But..........that is just my "opinion".
Wrong. You keep saying that there are "Inaccuracies" by God in the Scriptures.
Do you realize my brother that by saying that, You are calling God a liar??????
Could a MAN God called to write His Word have spelled a word wrong. Of Course!!!
But the leap you have made is unacceptable!
May I say to you with all Christian love with all due respect that The Bible cannot err, since it is God’s Word, and God cannot err. This does not mean there are no difficulties in the Bible. But the difficulties are not due to God’s perfect revelation, but to our imperfect understanding of it. The history of Bible criticism reveals that the Bible has no errors, but the critics do.
With the exception of small sections such as the Ten Commandments, which were “written by the finger of God” (Ex. 31:18, NASB), the Bible was not verbally dictated. The writers were not secretaries of the Holy Spirit. They were human composers employing their own literary styles and idiosyncrasies.
I would encourage you to go to this web site.......https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/are-there-any-errors-in-the-bible/
If Camping was right and the Rapture happened in 1988...........What are you doing posting on this web site????????
Next time you want to throw away $20.00 for a book of nonsense......call me at "BR549".
Was is PHONEY! Absolutely!
Every single person to place a date on the Rapture or the 2nd Coming is a PHONEY!
What Luther pointed out about salvation was by grace through faith was NOT SOMETHING NEW or a New revelation and neither was it prophetic.
It was right there in the Word of God for 1500 years and the Catholic Church suppressed it so as to keep power and control over the masses.
That’s my point, so today people get the Word without a confirmation?
Agreed.
Unless He doesn't. I'm dying of advanced Coronary artery disease, and while I KNOW that God heals (I've seen Him do it), I have no reason to believe that He has any intention of healing ME, NOW (the difference between Intellectual assent, and FAITH).
On the other hand, the Doctors gave me 10 years to live - in 1992, so the joke's on them.
AND of course, "MEN today have the ability to perform or call down the Holy Spirit at their pleasure". has never been a teaching in ANY Major Charismatic, OR Pentecostal group. so just a "Strawman" without substance.
Toxic "Word of Faith" False teachers, of course, have their own practices, unfortunately often on the televised media. Men today, when they are empowered by the Holy Spirit can manifest MIRACLES - when HE wills it (just like Peter at the temple gate). NO major Full Gospel group teaches otherwise.
I don't recall seeing a "Prophetic Word" in the Bible that instructed me to start a Band to minister to nursing homes. There's lots of things that the Holy Spirit leads prophetically that aren't in the Bible, and of course if it was all there, then James wouldn't offer additional wisdom for those who need it.
Right - they're called "the Gifts", or the Charisma. they're all there just like they were for the Corinthians.
Psst- it was Edgar Whisnant that wrote "88 reasons". HE was an earlier demonstration of the uselessness of "Eschatology".
True, and the Bible agrees. But "88 reasons" caused some MAJOR PROBLEMS for folks who took it seriously.
It was a "New" and Prophetic revelation TO Luther BY the Holy Spirit (Gift of the "Word of Knowledge), so that HE could get the reformation kicked off. Did you actually think that Luther thought of it himself - he was a TRAINED ROMAN CATHOLIC fully indoctrinated with their error??
Sure it was in the Bible, and while the Catholics ignored it, only Luther and a few others (like Melancthon) ever (by the illumination of the Holy Spirit) ever saw it there. SO the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit were in full function in Luther's day, and hadn't passed away. They still haven't, and God burdens folks to manifest them today.
That's because "that perfect" hadn't come - yet. Still hasn't - we STILL only "Know in part" (just like Paul did). That's also why the "Visible Church" is split and fractured with unity nowhere in sight in 2021.
AS one who was hip-deep in the Charismatic Outpouring until it ENDED in the late '70s, I can say with some confidence that it was no more "Chaotic" than any other "Revival" / "Time of refreshing" that's happened to the "Visible Church" - the Reformation when Luther's truth was revealed, was VERY messy, but regardless, it was still a MOVE OF GOD to restore His Church. NATURALLY satan opposes violently anything that God does in His Church.
One interesting aspect of the Charismatic Outpouring is that it hasn't "Denominationalized" the way other revivals have, and "Charismatic oriented" churches are still largely independent.
WRONG. There ARE "Inaccuracies" (Both REAL, and imagined) in the available translations of the Bible.
I didn't say they were "By God" that's YOUR addition.
The question was whether the Bible (as it exists in 2021) is "That Perfect" whereupon the SPIRITUAL GIFTINGS disappear.
AS far as I'm concerned the Published Bible NEVER WAS and STILL ISN'T "That perfect" (since it's demonstratively not "Perfect"), and we STILL "see darkely" just like Paul did). The condition of the Visible church is proof of that.
Ephesians 4:11-16 is a prophetic word, indicating a coming state of unity in the Visible church which we've never seen yet, and doesn't seem to be on the radar - yet (I saw the "seeds of it" in the '70s), There were TWO major times of refreshing in the 20th century, and there will probably be more - and they'll be MESSY because of satan''s resistance/attacks against 'em.
Interesting to hear you were part of the charismatic movement.
I believe it was of God but He doesn't stand still. Just as the 'church' has progressed from where it was during the middle ages.
You spoke of unknowns in scripture. Let me ask you this, believing we are living in the end times, when ever that might be. Do mysteries have any value? If we are in the end times and scripture is written for us then for it to have value/purpose then the mysteries have been made clear. As things were clear when it was written so it must be at it's conclusion, or it is just some hap hazard composition.
I believe it was of God but He doesn't stand still. Just as the 'church' has progressed from where it was during the middle ages.
You spoke of unknowns in scripture. Let me ask you this, believing we are living in the end times, when ever that might be. Do mysteries have any value? If we are in the end times and scripture is written for us then for it to have value/purpose then the mysteries have been made clear. As things were clear when it was written so it must be at it's conclusion, or it is just some hap hazard composition.
Personal opinion here: God's revelations, and understandings carry with them a "weight of responsibility" - i.e. the "Pearls before swine" thing. SO maybe in God's plan, it's better NOT TO KNOW, than it is to know, but NOT HANDLE the responsibility of the knowledge properly.
I think we've been in "the end times" for a couple of thousand years now, but I DO think that the end may be approaching.
If the MATURE visible church of Eph 4:11-16 is something that WILL ACTUALLY EXIST, then we're not particularly close to the end of the age, it appears. ON THE OTHER HAND, when God pours out His spirit, things can change rapidly. The end of the age is ALWAYS greater in Christian consciousness during times of Revival/Refreshing. Lots of folks were thinking "Rapture" in the '70s. Now - not so much.
Um...I don't see how a declaration from fallible doctors relates to the integrity of scripture. That's worse than an apples to oranges comparison.
MM
(blink...blink) Eschatology is useless?
Why do you think that? Please elaborate.
MM