Isis : Beheading Journalist...your Thoughts

[Glomung]

And like scripture are these taken out of context?

What are the versus before and after them?.

What about them. I don't remember any part of the Bible extolling the virtues of genocide.
Jesus said something along the lines of "if they won't hear you, ignore them".
He did not say "slaughter all those who disagree with you".

I can see that this is nothing more than another form of Anti-Semitism.

Only Arabs now instead of Jews.

Modern thinking is an absolute wonder. A group of people who self identify as a particular group goes around murdering other folks by the thousands and any person critical of them is labeled as a racist.

 

[DavidG]

Maybe one day, I'll debate something with you but for now and in this thread, I'll say goodbye.

too bad you have to be ignorant to something so important

Bah, I type too slow. Ah well, maybe it was for the best to end it. Maybe another day we'll manage to have a decent panel on this that achieves some understanding :-(

 

[Glomung]

So then, the inference is that since said verses were found in the Quran all Muslims are bent on World domination?

No. Only the ones who take it seriously, i.e. fundamentalists.
The Sufis are harmless enough. I've known quite a few moderate Moslems at work. They tend to be more "theists" in their actual belief and take much of what the Quran says with a grain of salt.

 

[DavidG]

No. Only the ones who take it seriously, i.e. fundamentalists.
The Sufis are harmless enough. I've known quite a few moderate Moslems at work. They tend to be more "theists" in their actual belief and take much of what the Quran says with a grain of salt.

That's been similar to my experience.
I think the differentiation is important because some of the primary factors feeding the most violent movements are fear and isolation. The more the moderates are lumped by generalization, the more they feel attacked and slandered, the less they will identify with a "tolerant" western perspective and more kinship they will feel with those who actively oppose the west.

It's reinforced in their law as well. The context of the most violent verse you mentioned is how war is to be fought against those who war on them. The very next verse says if their opponent stops fighting, then so be it, Allah is merciful. These verses are most easily applied when Muslim leaders are able to make a case that Muslims are being persecuted.

None of that, of course, excuses terrorists in the least...but it's worth noting that the tenor of our social response as well as our political response can have a marked effect on the growth of violent Islam.

 

[Abdicate]

All end-time prophecies point to Islamic nations. Here's the #1 misquoted, mistranslated verse in all of the scriptures and why no one can say what 666 really is:

Revelation 13:18 (KJV)
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

First is the "Six hundred threescore six" doesn't exist in the Greek. It is three letters that has NO meaning! It is actually: χξς

So what is it? Since it's not a valid word, it is ASSUMED to be the numerical value of the letters. This is called Gematria and NEVER EVER appears in the scriptures except here, if indeed it is Gematria. No matter how large the number it is always spelled out! So why here? Because it was sealed until the end times. John was told to write what he SAW. I'll return to this.

So what about the words count and number in this verse? Doesn't their presence imply Gematria?

The Greek word for count is ψηφίζω and does mean count, but it also means compute, reckon and decide. The Greek word for number is ἀριθμός and means number and multitude. So using these other meanings, let's see another translation:

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding reckon (decide, discern) the multitude of the beast, for it is the multitude of a man [that is Muhammad and/or the Mahdi - aka Antichrist] and his multitude [are identified by] χξς."

Ok, so maybe, but what is χξς then? Since John was told to write what he saw, Rev 1:11, what did he write here? With computers today, who can say. Well, believe it or not, the Catholics have the codex Vaticanus dated 350 AD which shows this picture:

ASSUMPTION: Since John wrote the book in Greek, when the scribes came to copy this part, they may not have understood what he wrote and seeing everything else was in Greek, they translated it into the three Greek letters written in the image above: χξς. After this, you'll understand what Rev 22:18-19 means ... But what if John saw this:

Now the last box, verified by Iraqi, Bahraini and Egyptian Arabic (Muslim) friends says: IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. Fulfillment of John 5:43:

John 5:43 (KJV)
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Here it is next to typed Arabic. Remember all I did was rotate the hand writing of Rev 13:18 so it's an amazing resemblance! Just google image "bismillah" and you'll see all the variations of it and tell me this isn't plausible!

What about the X then? When the Qu'ran is displayed it sits on a rehal (X):

Also look up the images of the Muslim prayer: shahadatan which is what you recite to become a Muslim. Also they value the crossed swords in everything:

Now read the translation of Rev 13:18 in this new light:

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding reckon (decide, discern) the multitude of the beast, for it is the multitude of a man [that is Muhammad and/or the Mahdi - aka Antichrist] and his multitude [are identified by] 'In the name of Allah' [Crossed Swords]."

This very thread about what is going on in Iraq is prophetic:

Revelation 20:4 (KJV)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

NO ONE ON THE PLANET BEHEADS except Islam... ok, the French, but not for hundreds of years...

Why do they behead? It's in the quran:

Sahih International
[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."
http://quran.com/8/12.

You can read more in Appendix L of my book: http://abdicate.net/book.aspx
So there ya go... take what you want, believe what you want, but if I were the devil I'd make sure every Christian is busy identifying false 666 instead of the real thing on the Nightly News...

 

[boltardy]

Bah, I type too slow. Ah well, maybe it was for the best to end it. Maybe another day we'll manage to have a decent panel on this that achieves some understanding :-(

Sorry Dave but from my own side (if I'm able to apply it - I've returned to threads on subjects as important as folk music only to find my return has only added fuel to the upsets!), common sense does seem to say that having managed to get myself excited, I need to cool off a bit.

 

[DavidG]

Sorry Dave but from my own side (if I'm able to apply it - I've returned to threads on subjects as important as folk music only to find my return has only added fuel to the upsets!), common sense does seem to say that having managed to get myself excited, I need to cool off a bit.

Such is the way of the gentleman. I respect that. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and look forward to dialogue on another day

 

[calvin]

All end-time prophecies point to Islamic nations. Here's the #1 misquoted, mistranslated verse in all of the scriptures and why no one can say what 666 really is:

Revelation 13:18 (KJV)
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

First is the "Six hundred threescore six" doesn't exist in the Greek. It is three letters that has NO meaning! It is actually: χξς

So what is it? Since it's not a valid word, it is ASSUMED to be the numerical value of the letters. This is called Gematria and NEVER EVER appears in the scriptures except here, if indeed it is Gematria. No matter how large the number it is always spelled out! So why here? Because it was sealed until the end times. John was told to write what he SAW. I'll return to this.

So what about the words count and number in this verse? Doesn't their presence imply Gematria?

The Greek word for count is ψηφίζω and does mean count, but it also means compute, reckon and decide. The Greek word for number is ἀριθμός and means number and multitude. So using these other meanings, let's see another translation:

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding reckon (decide, discern) the multitude of the beast, for it is the multitude of a man [that is Muhammad and/or the Mahdi - aka Antichrist] and his multitude [are identified by] χξς."

Ok, so maybe, but what is χξς then? Since John was told to write what he saw, Rev 1:11, what did he write here? With computers today, who can say. Well, believe it or not, the Catholics have the codex Vaticanus dated 350 AD which shows this picture:

ASSUMPTION: Since John wrote the book in Greek, when the scribes came to copy this part, they may not have understood what he wrote and seeing everything else was in Greek, they translated it into the three Greek letters written in the image above: χξς. After this, you'll understand what Rev 22:18-19 means ... But what if John saw this:

Now the last box, verified by Iraqi, Bahraini and Egyptian Arabic (Muslim) friends says: IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. Fulfillment of John 5:43:

John 5:43 (KJV)
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Here it is next to typed Arabic. Remember all I did was rotate the hand writing of Rev 13:18 so it's an amazing resemblance! Just google image "bismillah" and you'll see all the variations of it and tell me this isn't plausible!

What about the X then? When the Qu'ran is displayed it sits on a rehal (X):

Also look up the images of the Muslim prayer: shahadatan which is what you recite to become a Muslim. Also they value the crossed swords in everything:

Now read the translation of Rev 13:18 in this new light:

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding reckon (decide, discern) the multitude of the beast, for it is the multitude of a man [that is Muhammad and/or the Mahdi - aka Antichrist] and his multitude [are identified by] 'In the name of Allah' [Crossed Swords]."

This very thread about what is going on in Iraq is prophetic:

Revelation 20:4 (KJV)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

NO ONE ON THE PLANET BEHEADS except Islam... ok, the French, but not for hundreds of years...

Why do they behead? It's in the quran:

Sahih International
[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."
http://quran.com/8/12.

You can read more in Appendix L of my book: http://abdicate.net/book.aspx
So there ya go... take what you want, believe what you want, but if I were the devil I'd make sure every Christian is busy identifying false 666 instead of the real thing on the Nightly News...

There is another line of research that also leads to Islam being foretold in Rev 13. It has to do with a possible manuscript that reads 616 instead of 666, it has to do with our calendar being a man's numbering system rather (I suppose) than God's way of counting days. Dionysius Exiguus made a sis year error in his calculations when formulating our calendar that would mean that the year 610 from our point of vantage would be the year 616 from John's vantage.
The (our) year 610 is significant to Islam, why?

All throughout Scripture the Lord speaks of times and dates in a very different manner than we use today.
eg.
Dan 1:1. In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it.
Dan 11:1. "And as for me, in the first year of Darius the Mede, I stood up to confirm and strengthen him.
Dan 9:24. "Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
Rev 12:14. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.
Scripture only mentions months by name, not years. Years, as in AD, BC, BCE and CE are man's numbering system.
What the scripts that suggest 616 instead of 666 would show if the same mirroring were to be applied to them, I have no idea.
It is interesting though that there are more than one pointer to Islam from Rev 13.