KJV vs NIV

[forgiven61]

Not sure how this turned to church problems.. as long as we are here on earth .there will always be problems
i have my war stories to . but not going to list them i been asked to resign or a denom name..

when carnal minds start coming into the Church look out . i have seen church splits i have seen a preacher drop out of Church

 

[Prim90]

I agree that the Bible is good for actions, such as quickening and correcting and such, but it's still just a tool with paper and ink, or virtual. Either way, it's a given that the enemy of our souls will turn anything and everything around, and against those who are susceptible to enshrining the Bible at such a high level that their eyes are no longer upon the one of Whom the Bible speaks. We will not be carrying Bible around in eternity because the sanctification process will be complete. On this earth, however, in this life, the sanctification process is ongoing. The Bible will remain a valuable tool, but more importantly is the instruction of Holy Spirit, as is promised and sealed in stone in 1 John 2:27.

We all continue to study the Bible, but more importantly is that relationship with the One of whom it speaks. I'm sure we both agree on that. I have head knowledge from what I have spent years studying in the Bible, but of greater depth and eternal value is what the Lord has imparted to me directly. It is that impartation that has given life to the words written on paper or on the computer screen.

THAT is the order of importance that the scriptures uphold.

MM

You agree that the bible be good for some things. We disagree with your analysis. It be more than just a tool of mere paper and ink it be the power of Gods spoken word. There be many that express their religious experiences above the written word . Let me tell you about my religious experience be the fervent cry of many. But not so much due process is given unto the written word. Ignatius Loyola does come to mind You remind us that you have spent years studying, I do commend you for that. But than you tell us that your spirituality has surpassed the bible, it be merely a helpful tool to help us along the way. And in a round about way with the wording of your post KJV v NIV . Your view be that spirituality far surpasses any translation issue or the very bible itself. But that be problematic. For by where would the Holy Spirit have to lead us into all truth without the book you think ? MM the book be given unto us at great price. The flames from WilliamTyndales pyre and from the blood of the Saints do attest to that reality. You would have much less Christian spirituality without that book. MM Perhaps in time you might reconsider your order of placement when comparing the bible to spirituality. I must disagree with you. And yes I do enshrine the bible. There be no apologies for that. I’m sure all those who gave their lives over the centuries in order to bring us the bible would disagree with you very much too . Their testimony through the ages does look down upon you now. Evaluate carefully & wisely upon your spirituality above the bible.

 

[Musicmaster]

You agree that the bible be good for some things. We disagree with your analysis. It be more than just a tool of mere paper and ink it be the power of Gods spoken word.

I don't think I ever said that I disagree with this. His word is indeed powerful. Where does that power of His word reside? It's in the heart where the Lord writes His Law. The power of His words are within us, not simply resident upon paper or stone.

You remind us that you have spent years studying, I do commend you for that. But than you tell us that your spirituality has surpassed the bible, it be merely a helpful tool to help us along the way. And in a round about way with the wording of your post KJV v NIV .

Again, no. I never said that my or anyone else spirituality surpassed the Bible. I said that we must look beyond the written words to the One of whom those words point. God wants relationship with us, not merely reading the printed words and never spending time with Him in relationship. When I write letters or messages to my wife, they are words of meaning and truth, but she and I want more than just meaningful words between us. We desire to have relationship in person rather than to remain far off from each other, only writing words to one another.

God also wants relationship, and that closeness is experienced in prayer and all of daily life. Not with our nose stuck in the Bible while excluding relationship. There are those who are very good at studying the Bible, which is a good thing, but do not have that close relationship with the Lord that He desires that we have with Him.

Do you now understand what I'm saying?

Your view be that spirituality far surpasses any translation issue or the very bible itself. But that be problematic. For by where would the Holy Spirit have to lead us into all truth without the book you think ?

Then we need to read what is said by the apostle John himself:

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

Do you see that? It says that Holy Spirit will teach us ALL things. Where it's true that the Bible has great value in teaching and instruction, the highest and most glorious Teacher is Holy Spirit. I never said that anyone should set aside their Bible. Do you understand that? I am pointing to the Author of the Bible as the ultimate source for deeper and more profound understanding, and how important it is to spend time with that Lord who is the Author of the inspiration behind the Bible. He is superior to His words written in our Bible because He is the Person from whom those words originated. When I write words to others, I am more important than the mere words I wrote. The same is true of God. Without God, there would be no inspired words from Him.

God chose to use men to write down His words so that man would not worship any words written by His own Hand. Therefore, we do not worship His words written by the hands of men, but we worship God Himself. His inspired words are of great value to us, yes, but even more important is to spend much time with Him. In so doing, He brings life to His written words that we would otherwise not see nor understand.

MM the book be given unto us at great price. The flames from WilliamTyndales pyre and from the blood of the Saints do attest to that reality.

The flames of their torment speak more highly of God Himself, yes. They honored His words, but even more, they honored the Person of God above all else. When engulfed in the flames, they were looking to Him for their deliverance, not to the Bibles written in Latin or any other language.

You would have much less Christian spirituality without that book.

Then you do not understand the scriptures. Your error is indeed clearly seen.

Romans 1:18-21
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown [it] to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify [Him] as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

This speaks of those who do not have the Bible, nor have ever read the Bible, and yet they are STILL responsible for their unbelief. Do you see that? Please read the above verses carefully. It clearly says that the INVISIBLE attributes of God are clearly seen...where? In nature, in everything that He made. Again, no reference to their having to possess a Bible or anything else in writing. They are still responsible for their unbelief, and therefore failure to reach out to Him. Even His eternal power and God head is evident in His creation, and they are responsible, not for not having and reading the Bible. No. They are responsible for not accepting what is evident all around us.

So, I agree with you that the Bible, which the first century Church did not have, is indeed a valuable tool, but scripture itself shows to us that one does not have to have the Bible to be held responsible for recognizing and reaching out to the Lord for His instruction.

MM Perhaps in time you might reconsider your order of placement when comparing the bible to spirituality.

The order I have addressed is that God is Higher than His words, for without Him, there are not words. He is able to instruct us, whether we have the printed Bible or not. THAT is what I recognize because that is exactly what scripture shows to us. The deeper, spiritual life in Christ is imparted to us through personal relationship with Him, not just the study of the written words.

And yes I do enshrine the bible. There be no apologies for that.

As long as you are in direct relationship with Him, then I have no problem with the esteem to which you hold the Bible. If you esteem the Bible so highly that you have no relationship with the One of whom the Bible speaks, then that would be a problem. That's between you and Him.

I’m sure all those who gave their lives over the centuries in order to bring us the bible would disagree with you very much too . Their testimony through the ages does look down upon you now. Evaluate carefully & wisely upon your spirituality above the bible. View attachment 8770View attachment 8771

No, Prim. It is YOU who looks down upon me, because the truly spiritual follower of Christ understands what I'm saying. What is likely the issue you have with me is a slight language barrier. Perhaps English is not your first language, because we agree more than you seem to recognize.

You agree that the bible be good for some things. We disagree with your analysis.

Who is "we"? Are you writing for others around you?

It be more than just a tool of mere paper and ink it be the power of Gods spoken word.

Yes, it is, and He is the One who empowers the words ONLY through relationship, and through His work in the lives of those who read His words, and that He desires to seek Him. Without Him, the words would be nothing more than just words.

But than you tell us that your spirituality has surpassed the bible, it be merely a helpful tool to help us along the way. And in a round about way with the wording of your post KJV v NIV . Your view be that spirituality far surpasses any translation issue or the very bible itself. But that be problematic. For by where would the Holy Spirit have to lead us into all truth without the book you think ?

I already pasted the relevant passages that address this. Given that there is responsibility for EVERYONE who disbelieves, even for those who never had access to the Bible and living out in the deepest jungles, they are still responsible for their lack of belief, and therefore lack of response to the very God who is testified and evidenced in His creation. If the Bible were the only means to reach faith and instruction, then God is to blame for the loss of all those who never had the Bible.

I hope this helps you to understand that, where the Bible is a vastly valuable tool for understanding, that book in and of itself has no power apart from the One who DOES have the Power. You can lay your Bible on a dead body, and it will not rise to life. Faith, however, in the Lord who inspired the written words, has the Power to raise that body to life. There is nothing magical about the Bible, in and of itself. It is secondary to creation, because without creation, there would be no Bible. Creation came first. Genesis 1 clearly points this out:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God...

There it is. It starts and ends with God, and that which may be known of Him was already evidence in all of nature before the Bible was ever penned. If you disagree with this, then I really don't know what else will suffice to enlighten your understanding. He is the Alpha and the Omega...the Beginning and the End.

MM the book be given unto us at great price.

Yes, and yet that is not an excuse to overlook relationship. Perhaps that is not your intent, but your contention with what I have said seems to betray that thinking. I know some who have little to no relationship with the One of Whom the Bible speaks. That is a serious problem, because the Bible cannot save anyone. Salvation is ONLY through the Blood of Christ. Great understanding does indeed come through the Bible, but salvation can also come through glorifying the Lord because of what can see in creation itself.

MM

 

[Lanolin]

Can someone tell me who won?

Sorry. Just why would you set up a thread/match and then not answer the question, I'm getting dizzy watching posters volley back and forth, exhausting each other with arguments. I can't even follow why its even set up.

What does each Bible version get if they are the winner?

 

[Prim90]

I don't think I ever said that I disagree with this. His word is indeed powerful. Where does that power of His word reside? It's in the heart where the Lord writes His Law. The power of His words are within us, not simply resident upon paper or stone.



Again, no. I never said that my or anyone else spirituality surpassed the Bible. I said that we must look beyond the written words to the One of whom those words point. God wants relationship with us, not merely reading the printed words and never spending time with Him in relationship. When I write letters or messages to my wife, they are words of meaning and truth, but she and I want more than just meaningful words between us. We desire to have relationship in person rather than to remain far off from each other, only writing words to one another.

God also wants relationship, and that closeness is experienced in prayer and all of daily life. Not with our nose stuck in the Bible while excluding relationship. There are those who are very good at studying the Bible, which is a good thing, but do not have that close relationship with the Lord that He desires that we have with Him.

Do you now understand what I'm saying?



Then we need to read what is said by the apostle John himself:

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

Do you see that? It says that Holy Spirit will teach us ALL things. Where it's true that the Bible has great value in teaching and instruction, the highest and most glorious Teacher is Holy Spirit. I never said that anyone should set aside their Bible. Do you understand that? I am pointing to the Author of the Bible as the ultimate source for deeper and more profound understanding, and how important it is to spend time with that Lord who is the Author of the inspiration behind the Bible. He is superior to His words written in our Bible because He is the Person from whom those words originated. When I write words to others, I am more important than the mere words I wrote. The same is true of God. Without God, there would be no inspired words from Him.

God chose to use men to write down His words so that man would not worship any words written by His own Hand. Therefore, we do not worship His words written by the hands of men, but we worship God Himself. His inspired words are of great value to us, yes, but even more important is to spend much time with Him. In so doing, He brings life to His written words that we would otherwise not see nor understand.



The flames of their torment speak more highly of God Himself, yes. They honored His words, but even more, they honored the Person of God above all else. When engulfed in the flames, they were looking to Him for their deliverance, not to the Bibles written in Latin or any other language.



Then you do not understand the scriptures. Your error is indeed clearly seen.

Romans 1:18-21
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown [it] to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify [Him] as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

This speaks of those who do not have the Bible, nor have ever read the Bible, and yet they are STILL responsible for their unbelief. Do you see that? Please read the above verses carefully. It clearly says that the INVISIBLE attributes of God are clearly seen...where? In nature, in everything that He made. Again, no reference to their having to possess a Bible or anything else in writing. They are still responsible for their unbelief, and therefore failure to reach out to Him. Even His eternal power and God head is evident in His creation, and they are responsible, not for not having and reading the Bible. No. They are responsible for not accepting what is evident all around us.

So, I agree with you that the Bible, which the first century Church did not have, is indeed a valuable tool, but scripture itself shows to us that one does not have to have the Bible to be held responsible for recognizing and reaching out to the Lord for His instruction.



The order I have addressed is that God is Higher than His words, for without Him, there are not words. He is able to instruct us, whether we have the printed Bible or not. THAT is what I recognize because that is exactly what scripture shows to us. The deeper, spiritual life in Christ is imparted to us through personal relationship with Him, not just the study of the written words.



As long as you are in direct relationship with Him, then I have no problem with the esteem to which you hold the Bible. If you esteem the Bible so highly that you have no relationship with the One of whom the Bible speaks, then that would be a problem. That's between you and Him.



No, Prim. It is YOU who looks down upon me, because the truly spiritual follower of Christ understands what I'm saying. What is likely the issue you have with me is a slight language barrier. Perhaps English is not your first language, because we agree more than you seem to recognize.



Who is "we"? Are you writing for others around you?



Yes, it is, and He is the One who empowers the words ONLY through relationship, and through His work in the lives of those who read His words, and that He desires to seek Him. Without Him, the words would be nothing more than just words.



I already pasted the relevant passages that address this. Given that there is responsibility for EVERYONE who disbelieves, even for those who never had access to the Bible and living out in the deepest jungles, they are still responsible for their lack of belief, and therefore lack of response to the very God who is testified and evidenced in His creation. If the Bible were the only means to reach faith and instruction, then God is to blame for the loss of all those who never had the Bible.

I hope this helps you to understand that, where the Bible is a vastly valuable tool for understanding, that book in and of itself has no power apart from the One who DOES have the Power. You can lay your Bible on a dead body, and it will not rise to life. Faith, however, in the Lord who inspired the written words, has the Power to raise that body to life. There is nothing magical about the Bible, in and of itself. It is secondary to creation, because without creation, there would be no Bible. Creation came first. Genesis 1 clearly points this out:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God...

There it is. It starts and ends with God, and that which may be known of Him was already evidence in all of nature before the Bible was ever penned. If you disagree with this, then I really don't know what else will suffice to enlighten your understanding. He is the Alpha and the Omega...the Beginning and the End.



Yes, and yet that is not an excuse to overlook relationship. Perhaps that is not your intent, but your contention with what I have said seems to betray that thinking. I know some who have little to no relationship with the One of Whom the Bible speaks. That is a serious problem, because the Bible cannot save anyone. Salvation is ONLY through the Blood of Christ. Great understanding does indeed come through the Bible, but salvation can also come through glorifying the Lord because of what can see in creation itself.

MM

You ask from Genesis 1:1 where the bible be in the beginning when there was only God. John does remind in his reference to that from his gospel. John 1:1 ( In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with GOD and the Word was God.) Jesus Christ be the Word of life and so are his holy scriptures written under the inspiration by the hand of God. Yes many authors but only one Master painter guiding every stroke. That be the GOD I do believe. All scripture is God breathed is it not. At least according to the bible . You than move onto Romans 1: 18-21 of which some refer to as the world on trial in the great court room of God. And yes his invisible attributes are known to all and all be found guilty of their rejection of that, with or without the gospel. And yes God can use any method to bring salvation to the lost not only the bible . Even a talking donkey if he so chooses. But that doesn't relegate the power of the Bible in anyway It has saved millions maybe billions. MM there be no problem with the bible saving people. It speaks of the salvation that you mention from the sacrificial blood sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. You seem to take issue with that. You seem to be infatuated about people reading to much of the booka and not having enough spiritual communication with the God. And now you say The God not want us with our noses in the bible but more time in a relationship with him. MM I do think that most Christians would have diversified opinions on that in how they fellowship with God. Who know maybe most Christians do exactly that? Both In prayer or meditating upon Gods word. You mention the 1st century church being without holy writ. They have all New Testament in circulation prior to 70 AD. Maybe even the book of revelations as well. They also have the Old Testament to draw upon too. Search the scriptures for they do testify of me Christ did once say in referring to the Old Testament. When I was referring to William Tyndale and he being burnt at the stake it was not only for merely honouring the God but more precisely for translating the New Testament into English and making the word of God accessible to everyone along with many others that suffered the same fete. That is what I meant of their testimony of the ages that looks down upon you now. The word of God is not a dead book it comes alive to those who know him. It may be a dead book to the unregenerated but not the Christian. You seem to think it not part of our relationship with the God when it be very much a part of our relationship with him. Just because not everyone gets to read or know it doesn’t lessen that reality. Who be the we. Our church confession of faith be the we

 

[Musicmaster]

You ask from Genesis 1:1 where the bible be in the beginning when there was only God. John does remind in his reference to that from his gospel. John 1:1 ( In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with GOD and the Word was God.) Jesus Christ be the Word of life and so are his holy scriptures written under the inspiration by the hand of God. Yes many authors but only one Master painter guiding every stroke. That be the GOD I do believe. All scripture is God breathed is it not. At least according to the bible . You than move onto Romans 1: 18-21 of which some refer to as the world on trial in the great court room of God. And yes his invisible attributes are known to all and all be found guilty of their rejection of that, with or without the gospel. And yes God can use any method to bring salvation to the lost not only the bible . Even a talking donkey if he so chooses. But that doesn't relegate the power of the Bible in anyway It has saved millions maybe billions. MM there be no problem with the bible saving people. It speaks of the salvation that you mention from the sacrificial blood sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. You seem to take issue with that. You seem to be infatuated about people reading to much of the booka and not having enough spiritual communication with the God. And now you say The God not want us with our noses in the bible but more time in a relationship with him. MM I do think that most Christians would have diversified opinions on that in how they fellowship with God. Who know maybe most Christians do exactly that? Both In prayer or meditating upon Gods word. You mention the 1st century church being without holy writ. They have all New Testament in circulation prior to 70 AD. Maybe even the book of revelations as well. They also have the Old Testament to draw upon too. Search the scriptures for they do testify of me Christ did once say in referring to the Old Testament. When I was referring to William Tyndale and he being burnt at the stake it was not only for merely honouring the God but more precisely for translating the New Testament into English and making the word of God accessible to everyone along with many others that suffered the same fete. That is what I meant of their testimony of the ages that looks down upon you now. The word of God is not a dead book it comes alive to those who know him. It may be a dead book to the unregenerated but not the Christian. You seem to think it not part of our relationship with the God when it be very much a part of our relationship with him. Just because not everyone gets to read or know it doesn’t lessen that reality. Who be the we. Our church confession of faith be the we

You seem to not at all understand what I have said, nor my position on all this, so I will leave it at this:

Endless striving to explain and clarify myself seems to be a fruitless effort in the absence of understanding. We're not getting anywhere, so I will leave you to your assumptions about my words, and move on to other productive discussions rather than to repeat myself over and over. I simply don't have the typing time for that.

Suffice it to say that the written word has its value and merits. Translations are not perfect, and none of the authors of the translations ever laid claim to their translations being perfect...at least, not to my knowledge. Jesus stated about Himself that HE is the Way, and Truth, and the Life. Truth, as I have said before, is a Person, not a thing, which also includes the Way of salvation, and the Life given to us. It is He, not things.

In all of Revelation, we do not see the hosts from the Tribulation, standing before the Throne, having Bibles. They have only palm branches in their hands. Our Bibles of paper and ink will burn with this earth, but the Word will live on...because the Word is a Person. The Word is eternal, where we are everlasting because of what He has done for us.

Glory to the Most High. THAT is what matters the most.

MM

 

[Lanolin]

no winner ok lets close the thead...yawn. Read both if you can be bothered...I can't it takes too long. I know which one I prefer, but doesn't mean everyone has to.

 

[Prim90]

You seem to not at all understand what I have said, nor my position on all this, so I will leave it at this:

Endless striving to explain and clarify myself seems to be a fruitless effort in the absence of understanding. We're not getting anywhere, so I will leave you to your assumptions about my words, and move on to other productive discussions rather than to repeat myself over and over. I simply don't have the typing time for that.

Suffice it to say that the written word has its value and merits. Translations are not perfect, and none of the authors of the translations ever laid claim to their translations being perfect...at least, not to my knowledge. Jesus stated about Himself that HE is the Way, and Truth, and the Life. Truth, as I have said before, is a Person, not a thing, which also includes the Way of salvation, and the Life given to us. It is He, not things.

In all of Revelation, we do not see the hosts from the Tribulation, standing before the Throne, having Bibles. They have only palm branches in their hands. Our Bibles of paper and ink will burn with this earth, but the Word will live on...because the Word is a Person. The Word is eternal, where we are everlasting because of what He has done for us.

Glory to the Most High. THAT is what matters the most.

MM

MM you only see the Saints holding palm branches in the Book of Revelation and not bibles? Maybe you not see the all the scrolls, testaments along with the book of life scattered all though out the book of Revelation from beginning to end. Maybe because you only focus on the palm branches and not on the entirety of the book of Revelations. Do you really believe that the word of God shall not be preserved in heaven ? I understand what you say clearly and I disagree with your prognosis. The word of God plays a vital role in our relationship with God. And what you call the THING we call the LIVING WORD of GOD. But yes glory to the most high. His words shall never pass away

 

[Musicmaster]

MM you only see the Saints holding palm branches in the Book of Revelation and not bibles? Maybe you not see the all the scrolls, testaments along with the book of life scattered all though out the book of Revelation from beginning to end. Maybe because you only focus on the palm branches and not on the entirety of the book of Revelations. Do you really believe that the word of God shall not be preserved in heaven ? I understand what you say clearly and I disagree with your prognosis. The word of God plays a vital role in our relationship with God. And what you call the THING we call the LIVING WORD of GOD. But yes glory to the most high. His words shall never pass away

That is a very strange take on the imagery of Revelation. This is beyond the level of antagonism. Throwing into the text what clearly is not there, that's adding to the book what that same book calls accursed. Where do you see all those saints holding anything more in their hands than what the text clearly states? Those saints are not a part of the Church. The Church was already removed from the earth by the time those people came to salvation in Christ. Are you saying that John was mistaken, and that you personally know better than he?

Wow!

Revelation shows only an angle opening the Book of Life. How does that have anything whatsoever to do with the saints who were martyed or died in the Tribulation period?

MM

 

[Prim90]

That is a very strange take on the imagery of Revelation. This is beyond the level of antagonism. Throwing into the text what clearly is not there, that's adding to the book what that same book calls accursed. Where do you see all those saints holding anything more in their hands than what the text clearly states? Those saints are not a part of the Church. The Church was already removed from the earth by the time those people came to salvation in Christ. Are you saying that John was mistaken, and that you personally know better than he?

Wow!

Revelation shows only an angle opening the Book of Life. How does that have anything whatsoever to do with the saints who were martyed or died in the Tribulation period?

MM

MM your contention is that simply because the Saints are not holding bibles but only palms that all bibles will burn as ink and paper upon the earth. From that you seem to conclude that there won’t be a heavenly bible..you than go on to accuse me of adding to the word of God. Nothing could be further from the truth. I simply brought to your attention the many examples of heavenly books mentioned all through the book of Revelation which are even mentioned in the heavenly in the throne room of God Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat on the throne. Now there be a whole list of books mentioned. Open books sealed books, the ark of his testament Rev 11:19 the book of life. I leave you references to look up. Rev 5:1, 5:2, 5:3, 5:4, 5:5 5:7. The book of life Rev 3:5, 20:12, 20:15 Rev 10:10 plenty of books mentioned in heaven yet you choose to discard the bible as only a earthly one. We say it also be a heavenly one. Psalm 119:89 Forever O’Lord thy word is settled in heaven makes that abundantly clear. .looking at the verse you quoted Rev7:9. MM all it talks about is multitude of people worshiping God with palms. There be no valid reason to say that the bible be not in heaven on the verse you quoted. That be merely assumption. As to the church being removed from the the earth and to which John you refer. Me not fully know what you mean. Bible prophecy perhaps of which the interpretations be many. Revelation only shows a angle of the book of life you say. You than ask what has that got to do with Rev 7 9 . Everything considering that you be using Rev 7:9 to claim that there be no bible in heaven because you say they have palms in their hands and not bibles when we fully know many books are mentioned in heaven including the bible.

 

[Musicmaster]

MM your contention is that simply because the Saints are not holding bibles but only palms that all bibles will burn as ink and paper upon the earth. From that you seem to conclude that there won’t be a heavenly bible..you than go on to accuse me of adding to the word of God. Nothing could be further from the truth. I simply brought to your attention the many examples of heavenly books mentioned all through the book of Revelation which are even mentioned in the heavenly in the throne room of God Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat on the throne. Now there be a whole list of books mentioned. Open books sealed books, the ark of his testament Rev 11:19 the book of life. I leave you references to look up. Rev 5:1, 5:2, 5:3, 5:4, 5:5 5:7. The book of life Rev 3:5, 20:12, 20:15 Rev 10:10 plenty of books mentioned in heaven yet you choose to discard the bible as only a earthly one. We say it also be a heavenly one. Psalm 119:89 Forever O’Lord thy word is settled in heaven makes that abundantly clear. .View attachment 8778looking at the verse you quoted Rev7:9. MM all it talks about is multitude of people worshiping God with palms. There be no valid reason to say that the bible be not in heaven on the verse you quoted. That be merely assumption. As to the church being removed from the the earth and to which John you refer. Me not fully know what you mean. Bible prophecy perhaps of which the interpretations be many. Revelation only shows a angle of the book of life you say. You than ask what has that got to do with Rev 7 9 . Everything considering that you be using Rev 7:9 to claim that there be no bible in heaven because you say they have palms in their hands and not bibles when we fully know many books are mentioned in heaven including the bible.

(sigh) what I said is that there is no mention of those people holding Bibles. It can also be said that there is no mention anywhere of Bibles existing in heaven. The likely reason for that may have a great deal to do with this:

Romans 2:14-15
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Now, if you can show to me any reference for there being Bibles in Heaven, especially translations such as what we have available to us today, then I welcome that. Otherwise, I do not stand corrected, even though I do somewhat admire your zeal. Loving God's word is a good thing, never a bad thing.

MM

 

[Lanolin]

I decided I am taking my 'Journal the Word' KJV Bible to school, as the school library only has other, children's versions of the Bible but I will keep it in my office to refer to.

My other school I had a 'Woolly Bible' that was ICB. (International Children's Version) but I got up to Moses story in Genesis where it implied God tried to kill Moses and thought hold on that wasn't quite right. I think something went wrong in translation.

I also wish my Beginner's Bible (in English AND Chinese) could come with me. Please pray enough Bibles turn up and my students will be curious about them. I welcome donations.

 

[Prim90]

(sigh) what I said is that there is no mention of those people holding Bibles. It can also be said that there is no mention anywhere of Bibles existing in heaven. The likely reason for that may have a great deal to do with this:

Romans 2:14-15
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Now, if you can show to me any reference for there being Bibles in Heaven, especially translations such as what we have available to us today, then I welcome that. Otherwise, I do not stand corrected, even though I do somewhat admire your zeal. Loving God's word is a good thing, never a bad thing.

MM

Yes me find you references straight away. .MM that says clearly to me that the word of God is a decided matter in heaven that speaks of the entirety of Gods word . Unless of course you believe that heaven is here upon earth. I simply can’t believe God would allow for his word to perish permanently here upon earth without it not being reconciled in eternity. Matthew 24:35 Jesus does remind us. He say ( heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away ) meaning that the word of God will not perish with the consummation of all things here upon earth. As to not being corrected. For some it be their favourite verse ( withhold not the Rod of correction : ) I’m reminded enough. The book of proverbs I do believe

 

[Musicmaster]

Yes me find you references straight away. .View attachment 8798MM that says clearly to me that the word of God is a decided matter in heaven that speaks of the entirety of Gods word . Unless of course you believe that heaven is here upon earth. I simply can’t believe God would allow for his word to perish permanently here upon earth without it not being reconciled in eternity. Matthew 24:35 Jesus does remind us. He say ( heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away ) meaning that the word of God will not perish with the consummation of all things here upon earth. As to not being corrected. For some it be their favourite verse ( withhold not the Rod of correction : ) I’m reminded enough. The book of proverbs I do believe

Prim, I never said the word of God would ever perish.

MM

 

[Prim90]

Prim, I never said the word of God would ever perish.

MM

Ok . As long as the word lives within ones heart and we abide in the love of the eternal Word himself. You be most happy with that. That make you most happy. whereas the physical presence of paper, parchment, papyrus on any other means of heavenly embodiment of holy writ in eternity you do not accept because you think you not see nor find it necessary in the world to come. I guess that’s where we differ. Me do embrace both the physical book and spiritual realm when it comes to the full word of God. In eternity also. I guess it comes down to how you view Psalms 119: 89 and Matthew 24:35 along with all the other evidence of physical books observed in the heavenly realm. Yes that right the word of God never perish spirituality or physically for the matter already be decided in heaven.

 

[Lanolin]

Hold on why were people saying there is no Bible in Heaven?

In Revelation, the Book of life is very important!!
Did you not read right till the end???

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things. God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book; And if any man shall take away the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things that are written in this book.


MM Are you going to stand corrected?

Please, enough of this nonsense about there being no books or Bibles in heaven. There clearly is.

 

[Musicmaster]

Ok . As long as the word lives within ones heart and we abide in the love of the eternal Word himself. You be most happy with that. That make you most happy. whereas the physical presence of paper, parchment, papyrus on any other means of heavenly embodiment of holy writ in eternity you do not accept because you think you not see nor find it necessary in the world to come. I guess that’s where we differ. Me do embrace both the physical book and spiritual realm when it comes to the full word of God. In eternity also. I guess it comes down to how you view Psalms 119: 89 and Matthew 24:35 along with all the other evidence of physical books observed in the heavenly realm. Yes that right the word of God never perish spirituality or physically for the matter already be decided in heaven.

Neither you nor me has ever experienced that realm while living in this one, but we have good indication that our intelligence and our spiritual stature will be VASTLY superior to to the greatest man who ever lived on this earth:

Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

He who? The least in Heaven will be greater than John the Baptist, who was greater than any other man who walked this earth, even Abraham.

John the Baptist had no Bible, or even Torah scroll in his hands. He had God's word written in his heart. THAT is where the power of the word of God is enflamed and empowered. Paper and ink are useful tools in their place and time, but we, as the image of God, have what He has placed within us.

That is the testimony.

MM

 

[Dave F.]

Why would we need the written word, when we have Jesus, who is THE WORD and is the one that inspired men to write down HIS words? He will grant us understanding as we need it. Since Jesus is the word and He is eternal...HIS words shall never perish. The written word is here so we can get to know him while we are here on Earth, to bring us into a relationship with HIM and to so us where our salvation comes from.

 

[Musicmaster]

Why would we need the written word, when we have Jesus, who is THE WORD and is the one that inspired men to write down HIS words? He will grant us understanding as we need it. Since Jesus is the word and He is eternal...HIS words shall never perish. The written word is here so we can get to know him while we are here on Earth, to bring us into a relationship with HIM and to so us where our salvation comes from.

Yes. Very well said:

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

So, even if they take from us all our Bibles, we still have Holy Spirit (anointing), Who teaches us of all things.

If the Bible is taken from us, we will not be left alone to our own devices, and all will still be held responsible for their lack of belief, with or without a Bible.

Good point, Dave.

MM

 

[Prim90]

Neither you nor me has ever experienced that realm while living in this one, but we have good indication that our intelligence and our spiritual stature will be VASTLY superior to to the greatest man who ever lived on this earth:

Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

He who? The least in Heaven will be greater than John the Baptist, who was greater than any other man who walked this earth, even Abraham.

John the Baptist had no Bible, or even Torah scroll in his hands. He had God's word written in his heart. THAT is where the power of the word of God is enflamed and empowered. Paper and ink are useful tools in their place and time, but we, as the image of God, have what He has placed within us.

That is the testimony.

MM

Yes Matthew 11:11 says what it says. But than you conclude that he had no Bible or Torah knowledge. MM There be strong evidence that says John was a Nazarite living only on locusts and wild honey along with his unkept hair. If so we do find the Nazarene oath in Numbers 6. Rather biblical don’t you think. More so if he was a permanent Nazarene like Samual he would have certainly known the word of God extremely well. And if a prophet. The prophets are subject unto the prophets are they not. Rather biblical to don’t you think. But firstly if we turn to Luke chapter 1: 5-25. There we discover that Johns father was Zechariah a priest. Do you really think John had no knowledge of the Torah with his father being a priest? He probably knew it as well or better than any Jewish Rabbi knows it today. And finally this why I warn you about putting spirituality above the word of God. That has always been my contention with you . It’s highly dangerous and can lead anywhere if spirituality is unchecked by the word of God. Both need to be on equal standing.