Liberal Theology?

Speaking of philosophy or wisdom....
I read the Tao Te Ching. Some of it made sense and the other I got the sense that Lao Tzu would rather people just didn't do anything at all lol.

In some sense he was right, that if 'nature' took it's course, or we let the Holy Spirit do the work, rather than ourselves, we would have much better results. Yielding, letting our hearts be changed rather than forcing things.
 
Lanolin said:
Speaking of philosophy or wisdom....
I read the Tao Te Ching. Some of it made sense and the other I got the sense that Lao Tzu would rather people just didn't do anything at all lol.

In some sense he was right, that if 'nature' took it's course, or we let the Holy Spirit do the work, rather than ourselves, we would have much better results. Yielding, letting our hearts be changed rather than forcing things.
Click to expand...
I dabbled in Taoism back in the ‘70s. It was about silence and one hand clapping (a very dark time). In contradistinction the Christian faith is about the Word, proclamation, thinking thoughts and a Divine Trinity in fellowship with each other and its creation. A lot of chatter going on, lol.
 
No the one hand clapping is not the Tao. That's more Zen buddhism. Totally different philosophies.
The Tao is translated as 'the Way', which of course, was what Jesus spoke about.

It's not in contradiction to the still small voice and the peace that passes all understanding. When I pray its more about listening to God than saying what *I* think...if you've never had a prayer time where you let the peace of God wash over you, and you listen to Him then you haven't really been praying. You just been chatting and never letting God do His thing.
 
Please people don't confuse Chinese philosophers with Japanese! Shinto and Zen are NOT Chinese.

China has a big christian population (that's underground, but it got there) in contrast, to this day Japan has hardly any christians.
 
I once tried Chan Buddhism it’s basically meditation
I think it was Chinese.

edit: I dropped out of classes because I nearly fell asleep.

apparently all I needed to do was watch my breath. It is supposed to make you concentrated eventually, a kind of anti distraction training so you can get really good at seeing into the nature of things. I would have carried on but I just was so bored.
Western Philosophy i like though. But the bible warns not to get spoiled by the traditions of men.
All I can think that means is starting with your own self enquiry and don’t get stuck by appearances or carried away by other ways of getting to the truth of things. The truth is the way, and sometimes we have to stop when we can’t go any further and accept it gracefully.

like I once realised I don’t have to have a life purpose in the way that follows traditional thinking, people seem to think there’s no point in living if you don’t have a grand dream. But hey, I’ve been free to serve the Lord which ever way he chooses since then so I am alright as I am. No need to justify that.

all this self help better yourself and guru business is not needed for me since Christ appeared.

good thread.
 
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Lanolin said:
No the one hand clapping is not the Tao. That's more Zen buddhism. Totally different philosophies.
The Tao is translated as 'the Way', which of course, was what Jesus spoke about.

It's not in contradiction to the still small voice and the peace that passes all understanding. When I pray its more about listening to God than saying what *I* think...if you've never had a prayer time where you let the peace of God wash over you, and you listen to Him then you haven't really been praying. You just been chatting and never letting God do His thing.
Click to expand...
Lanolin said:
Please people don't confuse Chinese philosophers with Japanese! Shinto and Zen are NOT Chinese.

China has a big christian population (that's underground, but it got there) in contrast, to this day Japan has hardly any christians.
Click to expand...
And Christians don’t confuse the words of Jesus with Eastern philosophies.
You can’t mix the impersonal way (Tao) with the Personal (the person of Jesus Christ).
I had studied plenty of Suzuki and Laozi, I know the difference.
 
Lanolin said:
No the one hand clapping is not the Tao. That's more Zen buddhism. Totally different philosophies.
The Tao is translated as 'the Way', which of course, was what Jesus spoke about.

It's not in contradiction to the still small voice and the peace that passes all understanding. When I pray its more about listening to God than saying what *I* think...if you've never had a prayer time where you let the peace of God wash over you, and you listen to Him then you haven't really been praying. You just been chatting and never letting God do His thing.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ instructed the disciples and us how to pray. Luke 11 where we are given a model prayer. In many places throughout God's word God tells us to ask in prayer believing.

I agree we must listen to God, but how does God speak to us, is the real question? The Bible is called the "word of God," Christ is called the "Word." Listening to both is clearly instructed in God's word. We are told that God will help and guide us. It is clear that listening to God is very important, but to say one has never really prayed if they didn't have a time of silence in prayer, I don't find anywhere in scripture. I can see possible benefit in it, but it is not how Christ ever described prayer unless you have a scripture or scriptures you can share that say otherwise.

We are given the Holy Spirit and we need to yield to that Spirit which implies listening. God may choose to speak to us at anytime. God may well speak to you in prayer, there have been times I felt an immediate answer to a prayer. God wants us though to speak to him as well as listen. Communication requires both listening and talking and prayer is primarily our way to speak to God.

We are also told of mediating on God's word(s).

I agree that many don't spend enough time listening to God. Understanding though how to listen to God, so that we really hear him is important. For that understanding I go to God's word, what God tells me rather than listening to men and their thoughts on the matter.

I believe that many cultures have remnants of God's teaching learned from those God sent out in ages past. Much of it though has been adapted and changed to fit their worldly view of the nature of the world and their Gods.
 
Lanolin said:
Please people don't confuse Chinese philosophers with Japanese! Shinto and Zen are NOT Chinese.

China has a big christian population (that's underground, but it got there) in contrast, to this day Japan has hardly any christians.
Click to expand...

That much I can attest to since I lived there for 2.5 years back in the mid 80's. The majority of the Japanese population venerates Nabooda.

MM
 
Lanolin said:
Speaking of philosophy or wisdom....
I read the Tao Te Ching. Some of it made sense and the other I got the sense that Lao Tzu would rather people just didn't do anything at all lol.

In some sense he was right, that if 'nature' took it's course, or we let the Holy Spirit do the work, rather than ourselves, we would have much better results. Yielding, letting our hearts be changed rather than forcing things.
Click to expand...

Who pays for his sin?
 
CPerkins said:
Jesus Christ instructed the disciples and us how to pray. Luke 11 where we are given a model prayer. In many places throughout God's word God tells us to ask in prayer believing.

I agree we must listen to God, but how does God speak to us, is the real question? The Bible is called the "word of God," Christ is called the "Word." Listening to both is clearly instructed in God's word. We are told that God will help and guide us. It is clear that listening to God is very important, but to say one has never really prayed if they didn't have a time of silence in prayer, I don't find anywhere in scripture. I can see possible benefit in it, but it is not how Christ ever described prayer unless you have a scripture or scriptures you can share that say otherwise.

We are given the Holy Spirit and we need to yield to that Spirit which implies listening. God may choose to speak to us at anytime. God may well speak to you in prayer, there have been times I felt an immediate answer to a prayer. God wants us though to speak to him as well as listen. Communication requires both listening and talking and prayer is primarily our way to speak to God.

We are also told of mediating on God's word(s).

I agree that many don't spend enough time listening to God. Understanding though how to listen to God, so that we really hear him is important. For that understanding I go to God's word, what God tells me rather than listening to men and their thoughts on the matter.

I believe that many cultures have remnants of God's teaching learned from those God sent out in ages past. Much of it though has been adapted and changed to fit their worldly view of the nature of the world and their Gods.
Click to expand...

I believe the Bible teaches us that God speaks to our consciousness!!!!

1 Tim. 1:5..........
"Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,"
 
Major said:
I believe the Bible teaches us that God speaks to our consciousness!!!!

1 Tim. 1:5..........
"Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,"
Click to expand...

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (KJV)

God is putting his commandments into our mind (which will lead to a good conscience) and writing them in our hearts. In this way love can spring from a pure heart and from a good conscience out of sincere (honest) faith (or trust) in God.

So the act of listening to God is allowing God through his Holy Spirit to perform it's work in us. It also means hearing the words God has spoken is word. It also involves heeding the example of Christ which we will be led of the Spirit to follow. All facilitated by the Holy Spirit acting in our minds and hearts.

So I agree if by consciousness you refer to the part of the mind, God writes his law or way of faith and love (1 John 3:23).
 
CPerkins said:
Jesus Christ instructed the disciples and us how to pray. Luke 11 where we are given a model prayer. In many places throughout God's word God tells us to ask in prayer believing.

I agree we must listen to God, but how does God speak to us, is the real question? The Bible is called the "word of God," Christ is called the "Word." Listening to both is clearly instructed in God's word. We are told that God will help and guide us. It is clear that listening to God is very important, but to say one has never really prayed if they didn't have a time of silence in prayer, I don't find anywhere in scripture. I can see possible benefit in it, but it is not how Christ ever described prayer unless you have a scripture or scriptures you can share that say otherwise.

We are given the Holy Spirit and we need to yield to that Spirit which implies listening. God may choose to speak to us at anytime. God may well speak to you in prayer, there have been times I felt an immediate answer to a prayer. God wants us though to speak to him as well as listen. Communication requires both listening and talking and prayer is primarily our way to speak to God.

We are also told of mediating on God's word(s).

I agree that many don't spend enough time listening to God. Understanding though how to listen to God, so that we really hear him is important. For that understanding I go to God's word, what God tells me rather than listening to men and their thoughts on the matter.

I believe that many cultures have remnants of God's teaching learned from those God sent out in ages past. Much of it though has been adapted and changed to fit their worldly view of the nature of the world and their Gods.
Click to expand...
Well I don't know about you, but being silent when someone else is talking actually helps me listen!
And being silent when I'm reading helps me because I can read MUCH faster silently than out loud. It will be much faster than listening to an audio book even.

That is why I emphasise reading. If someone doesn't know how to read, they won't make much progress in understanding all the things God has to say to us, in the past, the present and the future that's written in scripture.
 
Actually the Bible does say about silent prayer as 'speaking in your heart'.

Matthew 6:6 ESV / 124 helpful votes​

But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

1 Samuel 1:12-13 ESV / 86 helpful votes​

As she continued praying before the Lord, Eli observed her mouth. Hannah was speaking in her heart; only her lips moved, and her voice was not heard. Therefore Eli took her to be a drunken woman.

Romans 8:26-27 ESV / 40 helpful votes​

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Psalm 139:1-4 ESV / 40 helpful votes​

To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.

Exodus 14:14 ESV / 27 helpful votes​

The Lord will fight for you, and you have only to be silent.”

Mark 1:35 ESV / 18 helpful votes​

And rising very early in the morning, while it was still dark, he departed and went out to a desolate place, and there he prayed.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 ESV / 15 helpful votes​

Pray without ceasing,

Psalm 23:1-6 ESV / 14 helpful votes​

A Psalm of David. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; you anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows. ...

Proverbs 21:23 ESV / 13 helpful votes​

Whoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble.

Psalm 141:3 ESV / 12 helpful votes​

Set a guard, O Lord, over my mouth; keep watch over the door of my lips!

James 5:13 ESV / 11 helpful votes​

Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.

Habakkuk 2:20 ESV / 11 helpful votes​

But the Lord is in his holy temple; let all the earth keep silence before him.”

Proverbs 17:28 ESV / 11 helpful votes​

Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise; when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent.

A tonne of scripture is here! Sorry I just copied and pasted from the closest Bible website.

Paul told women to keep silent in church, why, so the women could LISTEN. How could anyone hear what God has to say when they are talking over Him all the time.
 
Also, when Mary was listening to Jesus, she was not recorded as saying anything. She listened at his feet. It was Martha who was being noisy!
 
If Jesus had been a typical school teacher today, he would have told Martha to sit down and be quiet. lol

One rule in the classroom has always been if the teacher is speaking, everyone must be silent so the teacher can be heard. A good teacher will wait until everyone is quiet before speaking, and they won't let the lesson be interrupted.
 
Lanolin said:
Well I don't know about you, but being silent when someone else is talking actually helps me listen!
And being silent when I'm reading helps me because I can read MUCH faster silently than out loud. It will be much faster than listening to an audio book even.

That is why I emphasise reading. If someone doesn't know how to read, they won't make much progress in understanding all the things God has to say to us, in the past, the present and the future that's written in scripture.
Click to expand...
I believe the people in Jesus day, were orally oriented as manuscripts and papyri were rather scarce…
 
CPerkins said:
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (KJV)

God is putting his commandments into our mind (which will lead to a good conscience) and writing them in our hearts. In this way love can spring from a pure heart and from a good conscience out of sincere (honest) faith (or trust) in God.

So the act of listening to God is allowing God through his Holy Spirit to perform it's work in us. It also means hearing the words God has spoken is word. It also involves heeding the example of Christ which we will be led of the Spirit to follow. All facilitated by the Holy Spirit acting in our minds and hearts.

So I agree if by consciousness you refer to the part of the mind, God writes his law or way of faith and love (1 John 3:23).
Click to expand...
Thanks brother.

The conscious of man is a gift from God. It gives us the ability to determine right from wrong in spiritual and in fact ALL matters.
IT is what separates us from animals.

Think back a few thousand years. What made Adam and Eve hide in the Garden from God?????......Their Conscience!
They disobeyed God and their conscience would not let them forget.

What made King David cry out....
"Have mercy on me O God-with draw not your Holy Spirit from Me"?
His Conscience!

What made Pilot's wife write to her husband-....
"Have nothing to do with this man".
Her Conscience!

What made Peter cry out like a baby when he denied Jesus the 3rd time"
His Conscience!

We battle with our conscience every day we are alive. There is an inner voice that says.....STOP! Turn around-DANGER-WHY ARE YOU HERE!!!

IMHO, the sooner a person learns to obay that voce the sooner we will have inner peace with God and joy in our lives.
 
Lanolin said:
Actually the Bible does say about silent prayer as 'speaking in your heart'.

Matthew 6:6 ESV / 124 helpful votes​

But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

1 Samuel 1:12-13 ESV / 86 helpful votes​

As she continued praying before the Lord, Eli observed her mouth. Hannah was speaking in her heart; only her lips moved, and her voice was not heard. Therefore Eli took her to be a drunken woman.

Romans 8:26-27 ESV / 40 helpful votes​

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Psalm 139:1-4 ESV / 40 helpful votes​

To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.

Exodus 14:14 ESV / 27 helpful votes​

The Lord will fight for you, and you have only to be silent.”

Mark 1:35 ESV / 18 helpful votes​

And rising very early in the morning, while it was still dark, he departed and went out to a desolate place, and there he prayed.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 ESV / 15 helpful votes​

Pray without ceasing,

Psalm 23:1-6 ESV / 14 helpful votes​

A Psalm of David. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters. He restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; you anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows. ...

Proverbs 21:23 ESV / 13 helpful votes​

Whoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps himself out of trouble.

Psalm 141:3 ESV / 12 helpful votes​

Set a guard, O Lord, over my mouth; keep watch over the door of my lips!

James 5:13 ESV / 11 helpful votes​

Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.

Habakkuk 2:20 ESV / 11 helpful votes​

But the Lord is in his holy temple; let all the earth keep silence before him.”

Proverbs 17:28 ESV / 11 helpful votes​

Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise; when he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent.

A tonne of scripture is here! Sorry I just copied and pasted from the closest Bible website.

Paul told women to keep silent in church, why, so the women could LISTEN. How could anyone hear what God has to say when they are talking over Him all the time.
Click to expand...

I agree that listening is necessary and a very good thing. I too often speak to God in silence, while praying. I don't equate silent speech though to listening. When I pray it is my time to speak to God whether it is silent speech or speaking aloud. While praying the Holy Spirit speaks to God as well, most of the time we are not going to be aware of that communication.

The act of prayer is not though about listening to God. Listening to God is very important, but is done in other ways. Not to say that God can't speak to us while we pray, but the act of prayer is not about listening to God.
 
CPerkins said:
I agree that listening is necessary and a very good thing. I too often speak to God in silence, while praying. I don't equate silent speech though to listening. When I pray it is my time to speak to God whether it is silent speech or speaking aloud. While praying the Holy Spirit speaks to God as well, most of the time we are not going to be aware of that communication.

The act of prayer is not though about listening to God. Listening to God is very important, but is done in other ways. Not to say that God can't speak to us while we pray, but the act of prayer is not about listening to God.
Click to expand...
what, prayer isn't about listening to God? What planet are you from?
When you talk to God, don't you listen to Him as well? Give Him time to answer you? How can you not know in your heart that God has answered your prayer if you do not listen?

Or do you just go off and go ok here God this is all the stuff I have to say to you. Now got that off my chest. Bye.
 
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