Mark 16:9-20

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Major said:
We are not talking about a prayer ministry Jim. You continually throw up smoke screens to change the focus of the conversation.

I have been from the very beginning speaking of people who claim to "heal". They seem to have the time and ability to go to large places of people who gather. But they do not seem to be able to go to the hospitals where people are sick and suffering and dieing to heal the people there.

That was my point so lets try and stick to that question instead of giving excuses and explanations of something else. Now if you choose to respond, please focus on the question..............
"why don’t faith healers go to the hospitals and empty them all? What about the children’s cancer ward? If they claim to have miraculous healing powers, why can’t they cure all the sick in the hospitals and the cancer wards?"
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Brother once again you make me laugh. Thank You
No smoke screens - No changing the focus........
Brother I used the example I gave as an example to You. It does not matter if it is a healing or prayer or house painting ministry...........They do what God says.....They Go where God leads.
It is Not what I or you think but what God tells them.................

Answer this question..........why do you place the focus on healing ministries as to going to hospitials and such ? Why is that you or I or any other born again spirit filled believer are not ? We all have the authority and power given to us through Christ...........so why focus this on ministries and not every born again beleiver including me and you ?

Yes you see things through your eyes and that is fine. Now then when this blinds us to the fact that ministries including healing ministries Only Follow After Gods Leading and not other believers views then we get our selves all worked up over nothing.

To answer your question why these bigger ministries do not..........actually many do and again....it is as God leads them not me or you. The better question is this.........why are not believers such as Me or You going to the hospitials and taking Gods healing power ?

Blessings
Jim
 
Major said:
We are not talking about a prayer ministry Jim. You continually throw up smoke screens to change the focus of the conversation.

I have been from the very beginning speaking of people who claim to "heal". They seem to have the time and ability to go to large places of people who gather. But they do not seem to be able to go to the hospitals where people are sick and suffering and dieing to heal the people there.

That was my point so lets try and stick to that question instead of giving excuses and explanations of something else. Now if you choose to respond, please focus on the question..............
"why don’t faith healers go to the hospitals and empty them all? What about the children’s cancer ward? If they claim to have miraculous healing powers, why can’t they cure all the sick in the hospitals and the cancer wards?"
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People who have the gift of healing offer it to the Church first, for whom the gift is meant to be used first and foremost.

We don't clear out hospitals, for one must have faith for healing---that is obvious.
 
aha said:
I noticed that point of view threads ago.... and noted the capitalized "HAS" : )

I happen to agree....but..... as I see it:

more often than not: those "two opposing view" was not actually "opposing" , actually complimentary , just missing each other point... that is my point : )

Question (to you, as well @Grant Melville and @Abdicate who clicked "like" post#81

something for me to ponder on/consider: can you give an example of Christian values or belief that are "two opposing view"?
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I'm thrilled you asked!!! :D

Six people on three corners of an intersection witness an accident. The police take their statements, all true statements, which is true: #1 the sergeant reads six identical accounts, or #2 he gets six different accounts of what happened and they don't agree?

This is called a "point of view paradox". #1 & #2 are indeed the truth, as WE the witness see it. When and only when all facts are studied can the truth be discovered, but the witnesses don't have all the truth, they only have what information is presented to them. The text of the word of God is not just two dimensional words, but are seen from our point of view! Our experiences dictate what we see, right or wrong, our experiences cloud the truth and muddy the truth. The ONLY way through to the truth is the through the Holy Spirit. He and only He can show us what is truth. Still we see what we want to see. We believe what we want to believe, but does our opinion of the truth matter concerning the truth? Nope.

This is what is meant when the word of God says that we need to work out our own salvation, to labor to enter His rest, to see what is not seen. To get there we ALL must have a teachable heart, humble to surrender to God's truth, not our perceived truth. Faith is trusting that God knows everything and loves us and wants only the best for us. When God told Israel to bury their excrement, they didn't know why, they just took it on faith, and complied. Today, scientifically we know that open sewers contaminate our food and water supply as well as the air and spreads disease. Every day science decodes the mysteries of the word of God. Without understanding, if we trust AND obey, we are choosing LIFE, but if we "know" better and do it our way, then we are choosing DEATH.

So the question is, how to find the truth in two opposing views? We must return to the whole word of God, not just those that support one side, we then get a bigger picture, but not the whole picture. Faith must play its part. Everyone MUST listen to the Holy Spirit Who will LEAD us to ask truth.

*[[1Jn 2:27]] KJV* But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
​
It took more ten years to write my chronology study because I wanted to use only the word of God to find out what year it is since creation. The Holy Spirit had to show me. I was stuck on one NT verse pitted against an OT verse for two full years trying to understand why it looked like a contradiction knowing full well there are no errors in the word of God. Then one day I was directed and got my answer. That's what the Holy Spirit does. Until it's done, one in disbelief cannot see. The Pharisees saw and knew, but many refused to believe they were wrong in their thinking, others repented but hid it being fearful more of man than God. All could not see the truth though they quoted it. It's all and only God only. We cannot lean on our own understating, our teachings, or our beliefs, only on the whole word of God, which has only one purpose: to get us to Jesus. Once there we have the same powerful Holy Spirit that wrote the word of God Who can direct each of our steps. You get a prompting to turn left and your life is changed forever because you received God or a blessing, or saved from tragedy, etc... Find "turn left" in the word of God... You won't find it. Who did the prompting? The word of God is just a map, a photo album of God dealing with mankind over the years. It's the Holy Spirit, alive, here now, today that prompts us. When we listen AND obey, we choose Life and we grow from faith to faith, grace to grace. Therefore:

*[[Mar 10:52]]* And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.

*[[Luk 18:42]]* And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

*[[2Co 5:7]]* (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

*[[Gal 3:11]]* But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
​
If there is a promise, then is true regardless of what we see, experience or believe. That is Truth. That is Faith.
 
I have to repeat it:

*[[Mar 10:52]]* And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.​

*[[Luk 18:42]]* And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.​

Who's faith saved them, @Major?
 
Act 14:9-10 KJV The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.​

Who did the healing? Faith.
 
Euphemia said:
People who have the gift of healing offer it to the Church first, for whom the gift is meant to be used first and foremost.

We don't clear out hospitals, for one must have faith for healing---that is obvious.
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Could you explain what you mean by ((We don't clear out hospitals, for one must have faith for healing---that is obvious.))

Because many times God will direct your path to some one who needs prayer for healing and they are not even born again and get the total healing..........

When one is given the gift of healing - then they are lead by the Lord in what direction to go with it. It is not something that is meant for the church only or for the most part. It is meant to be used every place your foot steps.
Blessings
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Could you explain what you mean by ((We don't clear out hospitals, for one must have faith for healing---that is obvious.))

Because many times God will direct your path to some one who needs prayer for healing and they are not even born again and get the total healing..........

When one is given the gift of healing - then they are lead by the Lord in what direction to go with it. It is not something that is meant for the church only or for the most part. It is meant to be used every place your foot steps.
Blessings
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Do you really think that we ought to set up shop in hospitals to clear them out of sick, dying people? As you have just said, God directs us and gives us His discernment as to who needs and will respond with faith to His miraculous touch.
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Would you please expound on your views of Matthew 13:11-16
Thanks
Blessings
Jim
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This is an intriguing portion of scripture. On the surface, it seems that it is unfair that either, A. Jesus speaks in parables to hide wisdom from those who misunderstand, or B. God is holding back information from certain people for some reason, holding back salvation. Neither A or B is true IMO. So I must be missing something.

In Matthew 13:11-16, Jesus responds to the disciple's question of why He speaks to them in parables, "“Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. "


First, I ask, why was it given to the disciples but not to the others? What differentiates them? The disciples have something that the others do not, as Jesus says in verse 12. The disciples believe IN Jesus and have faith in Him. So faith seems to be the key here.

Now Jesus goes on, "Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand." In parables these others can see, or imagine, what is going on in the parable. For example, we can "see" in our imagination the sower spreading the seed on the ground. So, they can see what is going on, yet they don't "see" the underlying message or truth. Why not? They lack the faith in God. They don't believe in Jesus and are jaded in their understanding. They won't believe unless it is obvious. Do you want to lead people who demand that absolutely everything that you say must be proven first??? I wouldn't. God is no different.

Jesus goes on quoting Isaiah:
14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:


‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’"

These people have closed off any faith in Jesus. We see this in other scripture, “If you are the Son of God, save yourself!”, asking questions to try to trap Him in some offense so they can accuse Him, and accuse Him of blasphemy. They have a starting point of belief that, this Jesus does not agree with us on the law, nor on the traditions we hold dear, so He cannot be the Messiah. No matter what Jesus says or does, miracle or not. Thus, God does not want these “know-it-alls” and hard hearted people to turn their hearts to God because it would only be temporary. They could never be trusted with salvation, for it would end just like the angels who revolted and needed to be cast out.

I think this is why faith is so important. Maybe we should capitalize Faith to distinguish between ordinary faith in whatever, and Faith in Jesus believing on His name. Believing Faith in God, like Abraham’s Faith, is what God is looking for, to deliver wisdom to and salvation for. That is why I said, “It seems to be, that, God does not want those who have no desire to follow the Word without proof.” Or in the positive vein, it seems to be, that, God only wants to give salvation to those who desire to follow the Word without proof. A good and faithful servant is what He is looking for.
I hope this was clear. o_O :)
 
Euphemia said:
Do you really think that we ought to set up shop in hospitals to clear them out of sick, dying people? As you have just said, God directs us and gives us His discernment as to who needs and will respond with faith to His miraculous touch.
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No I did not just say that. You did .. lol
Look drop the faith part other then on the one with the healing gift...........God will and Does heal people to show His love before they are even saved.........Guess there faith for healing would not be developed then aye ? ;)

I dont believe I said anything close to setting up shop in a hospital..........
Thats all I said.........
Blessings
Jim
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
No I did not just say that. You did .. lol
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Not really.

Look drop the faith part other then on the one with the healing gift...........God will and Does heal people to show His love before they are even saved.........Guess there faith for healing would not be developed then aye ? ;)

I dont believe I said anything close to setting up shop in a hospital..........
Thats all I said.........
Blessings
Jim
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Don't you think my comment about hospitals was self-explanatory?
 
Euphemia said:
Not really.



Don't you think my comment about hospitals was self-explanatory?
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What are you talken about ? You said I said something that i did not. so I said it as in being funny no you just said it.........Your answer no not really

Then you quote me aand say dont you think my explanation about hospitials was self explanatory?
Is this a game of riddles ? Rofl.........
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
What are you talken about ? You said I said something that i did not. so I said it as in being funny no you just said it.........Your answer no not really

Then you quote me aand say dont you think my explanation about hospitials was self explanatory?
Is this a game of riddles ? Rofl.........
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Hon, you asked me to explain what I said about the fact that we don't go out and empty out hospitals because it requires faith to believe for healing. Jesus didn't do it.
 
Euphemia said:
Hon, you asked me to explain what I said about the fact that we don't go out and empty out hospitals because it requires faith to believe for healing. Jesus didn't do it.
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Yes mam that is what you were saying............However........those who have been blessed with the gift of healing - well they simply use it where ever God leads them........many times it is to people who have no faith or trust in God and yet God heals and delivers them.........

Now then this can be a part of our life too.
Think about the begger............he was told silver and gold I haven one but what what I do have I give to you.........In the name of Jesus be healed or whole.............did this man have faith for his healing ? Nah he had faith in begging..............( paraphrased )

This is my point...........dont limit healing to only those who have fiath for healing.....
That is the only thing I was trying to say dear........... ;)
God Bless
Jim
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Yes mam that is what you were saying............However........those who have been blessed with the gift of healing - well they simply use it where ever God leads them........many times it is to people who have no faith or trust in God and yet God heals and delivers them.........

Now then this can be a part of our life too.
Think about the begger............he was told silver and gold I haven one but what what I do have I give to you.........In the name of Jesus be healed or whole.............did this man have faith for his healing ? Nah he had faith in begging..............( paraphrased )

This is my point...........dont limit healing to only those who have fiath for healing.....
That is the only thing I was trying to say dear........... ;)
God Bless
Jim
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I do not limit what Holy Spirit does through His children. I've actually laid hands on unbelieving strangers who have consented, for healing.
 
Big Moose said:
This is an intriguing portion of scripture. On the surface, it seems that it is unfair that either, A. Jesus speaks in parables to hide wisdom from those who misunderstand, or B. God is holding back information from certain people for some reason, holding back salvation. Neither A or B is true IMO. So I must be missing something.

In Matthew 13:11-16, Jesus responds to the disciple's question of why He speaks to them in parables, "“Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. "


First, I ask, why was it given to the disciples but not to the others? What differentiates them? The disciples have something that the others do not, as Jesus says in verse 12. The disciples believe IN Jesus and have faith in Him. So faith seems to be the key here.

Now Jesus goes on, "Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand." In parables these others can see, or imagine, what is going on in the parable. For example, we can "see" in our imagination the sower spreading the seed on the ground. So, they can see what is going on, yet they don't "see" the underlying message or truth. Why not? They lack the faith in God. They don't believe in Jesus and are jaded in their understanding. They won't believe unless it is obvious. Do you want to lead people who demand that absolutely everything that you say must be proven first??? I wouldn't. God is no different.

Jesus goes on quoting Isaiah:
14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:


‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’"

These people have closed off any faith in Jesus. We see this in other scripture, “If you are the Son of God, save yourself!”, asking questions to try to trap Him in some offense so they can accuse Him, and accuse Him of blasphemy. They have a starting point of belief that, this Jesus does not agree with us on the law, nor on the traditions we hold dear, so He cannot be the Messiah. No matter what Jesus says or does, miracle or not. Thus, God does not want these “know-it-alls” and hard hearted people to turn their hearts to God because it would only be temporary. They could never be trusted with salvation, for it would end just like the angels who revolted and needed to be cast out.

I think this is why faith is so important. Maybe we should capitalize Faith to distinguish between ordinary faith in whatever, and Faith in Jesus believing on His name. Believing Faith in God, like Abraham’s Faith, is what God is looking for, to deliver wisdom to and salvation for. That is why I said, “It seems to be, that, God does not want those who have no desire to follow the Word without proof.” Or in the positive vein, it seems to be, that, God only wants to give salvation to those who desire to follow the Word without proof. A good and faithful servant is what He is looking for.
I hope this was clear. o_O :)
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As i can agree with most of what you said, i think to get more clarity one has to read the other accounts of the same parable. Because in Mark 4:10 and Luke 8:1-10 it says that there were more than just the twelve that Jesus explained the meaning to. And in my opinion even if He was just talking to the disciples, then it would include us, because God made sure it was written in the Bible so that we could read it also, and by meditating on the Word of God....the Holy Spirit reveals unto us the truth of the written Word (John 14:17; 16: 13-15). And if we are truly following Christ, we are His disciples also...seed of Abraham because of faith and trust in Jesus (whom we are joint heirs with). Romans 4:16, 24

As i asked God one time why didn't He have Jesus reveal Himself to all the jewish people at that time, He reminded me that as Romans 9:6, 23 and ch 11 and John 10:16 says that it was not just for Israel that Jesus came.

Blesings
 
Euphemia said:
I do not limit what Holy Spirit does through His children. I've actually laid hands on unbelieving strangers who have consented, for healing.
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No one said you did...............but I must ask you this......is this a rule of yours ? this consented to healing or just a way to try and make the must have faith for healing - that you have been telling me ?

Now dont get all ruffled here..........I am not getting mean........just trying to talk straight so as to not miss under stand each other.........
Oh and you being far north of us.......are you east central or west ? Just wondering for I have been talking alot with guys in all through your area and farther north and west.........Alot..lol
 
You just can't go around laying hands on people indiscriminately...it could offend people, and actually put you in harm's way both physically and spiritually.

I live in southern region of Ontario called the Golden Horseshoe.
 
Euphemia said:
You just can't go around laying hands on people indiscriminately...it could offend people, and actually put you in harm's way both physically and spiritually.

I live in southern region of Ontario called the Golden Horseshoe.
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I agree big time.............in this day and age you can get sued and or thrown in jail for doing such things and this is especially true in hospitals............

I just wanted to grasp totally what you meant by consent and I do - thank you very much.
Beautiful area there. I believe I was over that way once when I was little when we went on a vacation to niagra falls and went over into canada......as a kid.......you dont ever want to ask your dad to drive from west to east up there.........ohhhhhhhh dont ever want to sit that long in a back seat again...........
Thank you for helping me to understand what you meant.
Blessings
Jim
 
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