Mark 16:9-20

[Major]

Yes, an addition inspired by God, Himself.

I will not argue that with you. As I have stated before, I accept the words as the Word of God and only add that the Greek grammer of the way they are written that if you can do ONE of the "Sign Gifts" then you can do all of them.

The grammatical Greek can not be altered so as to make it be acceptable that the Sign Gifts are ones that can be chosen.
They were given as a "package" deal and not a pick and choose what you like and what you want to do.

That is all I have said from the very beginning.

Bless you sister and be well!

 

[CCW95A]

Acts 3:1-10...........
"Now Peter and John went up together to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour. And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms from those who entered the temple; who, seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple, asked for alms. And fixing his eyes on him, with John, Peter said, "Look at us." So he gave them his attention, expecting to receive something from them. Then Peter said, "Silver and gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk." And he took him by the right hand and lifted him up, and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength. So he, leaping up, stood and walked and entered the temple with them--walking, leaping, and praising God. And all the people saw him walking and praising God. Then they knew that it was he who sat begging alms at the Beautiful Gate of the temple; and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him".

What faith did the lame man have? He didn't know who Peter and John were. He wasn't asking for healing, he was looking for money. Yet without asking and without faith, he was healed. The accurate description is that faith came after he saw he was healed.

Matthew 12:9-13...............

Do you not think since this man was laid at this particular gate every day would not have heard about Jesus, and what he taught? After all this was the path that lead to the temple where Jesus often taught. Did this man just wake up healed or was he "expecting" something from Peter. He did not know what Peter was going to give him, put he was expecting to receive what ever he had. Is not "faith" "expecting", or as the KJV says "assurance" of things hoped for.

Heb 11:1 Faith assures us of things we expect and convinces us of the existence of things we cannot see. (GW)

Faith does NOT come after the fact, it comes before the fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Act 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

 

[Major]

@Major

I am not a member of ANY denomination, and I would appreciate your refraining from pigeon-holing me and others.

My beliefs come only from the word of God and the gentle teaching of Holy Spirit in my life. Yes, you do not share some areas of my faith, and that is clear, but as one opens himself up to the leadership of Holy Spirit, one becomes more and more in tune with Him and what He says.

It's all a journey, my friend.

Yes it is. And the journey is always better when we can work out our differences in love.
Please believe me when I say that I am not placing you in a box or hole. As I said, "some" will reject my comment BUT if you read the statement of faith for the Charismatic Pentecostal faith, you will see very clearly that you are in line with every single thing that they teach and I only say that from reading your posting on those teachings.

I am not and did not say that in a negative, bad or "got cha" attitude but instead one of trying to explain why we are at odds over some of the things discussed here.

In fact it was you and not me that brought the denominational thing into this thread and your exact words were on page #3 speaking to me you said.................
"but your understanding about spiritual gifts is rather impoverished and reeks of denominational influence. You really need to go through the New Testament and discard your denominational flavouring, and allow Holy Spirit to teach you HIS truth about the anointing."

All I am doing is clarifying your comment so that we all know what "denomination influences" are. That my sister is why I said that you follow the AoG denominational teaching. You may not agree with that, but your comments and teaching say the opposite.

God love ya and I do too and I hope you stay well!

 

[CCW95A]

Matthew 12:9-13...............
"Now when He had departed from there, He went into their synagogue. And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?" --that they might accuse Him. Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." Then He said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other" (Matthew 12:9-13)

I find this one interesting because the man who was healed was a pawn in a play to trap Jesus. He wasn't looking to be healed, he had come to the synagogue for worship. He never asked for his arm to be restored. The leaders and Jesus were having a disagreement and then Jesus simply asks him to extend his hand and never mentioned "faith" at all. Jesus didn't even say what he was about to do, and yet the man was healed in front of a large number of people stubbornly holding on to their unbelief.

Did this man know that Jesus was trying to be tricked into healing on the "Sabbath" Did he not hear the question given to Jesus about healing? What do you suppose would have happened if this man did NOT "stretch" out his had? Do you think this man knew what Jesus was about to do, sense this whole scene was about whether or not Jesus would heal on the Sabbath. This man acted on his faith and stretch out his had, and it was healed.

 

[CCW95A]

It is always a blessing to speak with you and I do hope that you will realize that our differences come from the denominational positions that we do not share on this doctrinal issue.

Brother I do not dislike you at all, sense we are both part of the body of Christ. You are fun, and make me search the scriptures more than if we just agreed on everything. I would love it if we both saw eye to eye, but you have reasons why you believe the way you do, and I also see things a bit differently than you.

 

[Major]

signs and wonders - simply the results seen of Gods working power.
Still the same today as it was then.

That is an outstanding opinion Jim but is it from the Bible. Is that what the Bible teaches us?
Doesn't the Bible actually teach us that if we are strong in faith we don't need signs and wonders to know that the Father cares for us??? Why would we need to be further convinced of God by the exhibiting of power. We don't need signs and wonders to prove that He exists or that He hears our prayers.

What does the Bible say?? In fact you have quoted this Scripture several times, do you only believe it when it is necessary to do so?

Romans 10:17...........
"Faith comes by hearing the word and hearing from the Word of God".

Isn't it all about Christ that we believe what we read. Without seeing any evidence of supernatural manifestations, we can believe because God has granted us grace to believe based upon the testimony of His Word. Faith is to work from his word. I have read your comments and you have said exactly the same thing.

Absolutely the Lord requires faith, however we are more blessed who believe without seeing. Again, isn't that what the Bible teaches us?????

John 20:29.
"Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Without a doubt faith is the foundation upon which rests every thing we receive in our spiritual life. Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Hebrews 11:6...........
"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

But its not presumption nor is it imaginative. If we look at the people who have had supernatural experiences, we'll find that, in many cases, when the signs and wonders cease, their faith ceases. It was not true faith, but rather mere belief in what they could deny seeing. They believed because they saw, but they did not have true faith, it was temporary. The 3 cities Christ did miracles in the people hated him. So he pronounced a judgment on them.

Also, no people on the face of the earth saw more miracles and signs and wonders than did the Children of Israel who came out of Egypt. They SAW and experienced the power of God and yet in the end............how many of them were allowed into the promised land Jim????????

TWO! ........... They did not have the faith to believe God!!!!

Bless you my brother and be well!

 

[Major]

Brother I do not dislike you at all, sense we are both part of the body of Christ. You are fun, and make me search the scriptures more than if we just agreed on everything. I would love it if we both saw eye to eye, but you have reasons why you believe the way you do, and I also see things a bit differently than you.

That is absolutely what I have been saying. We simply do not agree on some non-essential doctrines. Tell me ONE person who agrees with everything you say then let me talk to you wife!

I never have any animosity toward you and in fact I love it that you have a wonderful faith and are faithful in it.

Blessing!

 

[Major]

Did this man know that Jesus was trying to be tricked into healing on the "Sabbath" Did he not hear the question given to Jesus about healing? What do you suppose would have happened if this man did NOT "stretch" out his had? Do you think this man knew what Jesus was about to do, sense this whole scene was about whether or not Jesus would heal on the Sabbath. This man acted on his faith and stretch out his had, and it was healed.

IMO it does not matter if he knew or did not know. He had not come for healing and did not ask to be healed. He did not demonstrate any faith at all, IMO.

 

[CCW95A]

IMO it does not matter if he knew or did not know. He had not come for healing and did not ask to be healed. He did not demonstrate any faith at all, IMO.

I really believe this man put two, and two together and came to the conclusion, "Hey, I think I am in the right spot, at the right time here. The religious leaders are seeing if Jesus would heal on the Sabbath, and I am here and I need healing. Oh happy day for me, as I am going to do what ever he asks of me"

 

[Euphemia]

They were given as a "package" deal and not a pick and choose what you like and what you want to do.

Not true....although those who are filled with (baptized in) the Holy Spirit could encounter opportunities throughout life where any and all of the gifts would be employed. We cannot dictate our circumstances.

The spiritual gifts are a package deal---for the entire Body of Christ.

 

[Major]

Do you not think since this man was laid at this particular gate every day would not have heard about Jesus, and what he taught? After all this was the path that lead to the temple where Jesus often taught. Did this man just wake up healed or was he "expecting" something from Peter. He did not know what Peter was going to give him, put he was expecting to receive what ever he had. Is not "faith" "expecting", or as the KJV says "assurance" of things hoped for.

Heb 11:1 Faith assures us of things we expect and convinces us of the existence of things we cannot see. (GW)

Faith does NOT come after the fact, it comes before the fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Act 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

My brother, what did Jesus say about those who ask for signs or miracles?

Matthew 12:39 ...........
"An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas ".

Jesus is saying that as Jonah spent three days and three nights in the belly of death (the fish that swallowed Jonah) so He would spend three days and three nights in the belly of death. This was the only sign that would be given.

Our faith focus is to be on the cross and what Jesus accomplished for us by sacrificing Himself on that cross. He bore our sin penalty so we would not have to pay that debt. This is the greatest miracle of all. We are transformed from spiritually dead people into people alive in the spirit and are granted eternal life. What need is there for any other miracles?

 

[Major]

I really believe this man put two, and two together and came to the conclusion, "Hey, I think I am in the right spot, at the right time here. The religious leaders are seeing if Jesus would heal on the Sabbath, and I am here and I need healing. Oh happy day for me, as I am going to do what ever he asks of me"

And you may be correct, but of course what you are saying is ADDING to what the Word actually does say.

 

[CCW95A]

My brother, what did Jesus say about those who ask for signs or miracles?

Matthew 12:39 ...........
"An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas ".

Jesus is saying that as Jonah spent three days and three nights in the belly of death (the fish that swallowed Jonah) so He would spend three days and three nights in the belly of death. This was the only sign that would be given.

Our faith focus is to be on the cross and what Jesus accomplished for us by sacrificing Himself on that cross. He bore our sin penalty so we would not have to pay that debt. This is the greatest miracle of all. We are transformed from spiritually dead people into people alive in the spirit and are granted eternal life. What need is there for any other miracles?

An evil generation seeks for a "sign" so they would believe. A righteous generation has faith first before seeing, and experiencing God's provision through his promises.

 

[Euphemia]

Yes it is. And the journey is always better when we can work out our differences in love.
Please believe me when I say that I am not placing you in a box or hole. As I said, "some" will reject my comment BUT if you read the statement of faith for the Charismatic Pentecostal faith, you will see very clearly that you are in line with every single thing that they teach and I only say that from reading your posting on those teachings.

I am not and did not say that in a negative, bad or "got cha" attitude but instead one of trying to explain why we are at odds over some of the things discussed here.

In fact it was you and not me that brought the denominational thing into this thread and your exact words were on page #3 speaking to me you said.................
"but your understanding about spiritual gifts is rather impoverished and reeks of denominational influence. You really need to go through the New Testament and discard your denominational flavouring, and allow Holy Spirit to teach you HIS truth about the anointing."

All I am doing is clarifying your comment so that we all know what "denomination influences" are. That my sister is why I said that you follow the AoG denominational teaching. You may not agree with that, but your comments and teaching say the opposite.

God love ya and I do too and I hope you stay well!

Being non-denominational and allowing Holy Spirit to teach us brings out His flavour---not a denominational influence.

 

[CCW95A]

And you may be correct, but of course what you are saying is ADDING to what the Word actually does say.

You are right, but putting yourself in his position using what we do know in scriptures can give us insight into what was going on. This is of course just my opinion, but I believe I have the Spirit of God.

 

[Euphemia]

Brother, there could never be any healing without faith. Healing does not just fall out of the sky onto people. Someone had to either pray for that person, or someone had bring that person to Jesus, or they had to come to where Jesus was to be healed. Sometime it was the faith of another person that brought forth healing. It makes no difference who it was it is, and will always be by faith that healing comes, even if it was just Jesus's faith out of his mercy and grace to heal a person. Lazarus had his sister to call for Jesus to come for her brother. No matter where you read in scripture you will find someones faith in operation. This is why which I have already posted in this thread........

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Very true, as exemplified in Jesus' own life:

Mark 6:4-6
Then Jesus told them, “A prophet is honored everywhere except in his own hometown and among his relatives and his own family.” 5 And because of their unbelief, he couldn’t do any miracles among them except to place his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 And he was amazed at their unbelief.

 

[aha]

I'm thrilled you asked!!!

Six people on three corners of an intersection witness an accident. The police take their statements, all true statements, which is true: #1 the sergeant reads six identical accounts, or #2 he gets six different accounts of what happened and they don't agree?

This is called a "point of view paradox". #1 & #2 are indeed the truth, as WE the witness see it. When and only when all facts are studied can the truth be discovered, but the witnesses don't have all the truth, they only have what information is presented to them. The text of the word of God is not just two dimensional words, but are seen from our point of view! Our experiences dictate what we see, right or wrong, our experiences cloud the truth and muddy the truth. The ONLY way through to the truth is the through the Holy Spirit. He and only He can show us what is truth. Still we see what we want to see. We believe what we want to believe, but does our opinion of the truth matter concerning the truth? Nope.

This is what is meant when the word of God says that we need to work out our own salvation, to labor to enter His rest, to see what is not seen. To get there we ALL must have a teachable heart, humble to surrender to God's truth, not our perceived truth. Faith is trusting that God knows everything and loves us and wants only the best for us. When God told Israel to bury their excrement, they didn't know why, they just took it on faith, and complied. Today, scientifically we know that open sewers contaminate our food and water supply as well as the air and spreads disease. Every day science decodes the mysteries of the word of God. Without understanding, if we trust AND obey, we are choosing LIFE, but if we "know" better and do it our way, then we are choosing DEATH.

So the question is, how to find the truth in two opposing views? We must return to the whole word of God, not just those that support one side, we then get a bigger picture, but not the whole picture. Faith must play its part. Everyone MUST listen to the Holy Spirit Who will LEAD us to ask truth.

*[[1Jn 2:27]] KJV* But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
​

It took more ten years to write my chronology study because I wanted to use only the word of God to find out what year it is since creation. The Holy Spirit had to show me. I was stuck on one NT verse pitted against an OT verse for two full years trying to understand why it looked like a contradiction knowing full well there are no errors in the word of God. Then one day I was directed and got my answer. That's what the Holy Spirit does. Until it's done, one in disbelief cannot see. The Pharisees saw and knew, but many refused to believe they were wrong in their thinking, others repented but hid it being fearful more of man than God. All could not see the truth though they quoted it. It's all and only God only. We cannot lean on our own understating, our teachings, or our beliefs, only on the whole word of God, which has only one purpose: to get us to Jesus. Once there we have the same powerful Holy Spirit that wrote the word of God Who can direct each of our steps. You get a prompting to turn left and your life is changed forever because you received God or a blessing, or saved from tragedy, etc... Find "turn left" in the word of God... You won't find it. Who did the prompting? The word of God is just a map, a photo album of God dealing with mankind over the years. It's the Holy Spirit, alive, here now, today that prompts us. When we listen AND obey, we choose Life and we grow from faith to faith, grace to grace. Therefore:

*[[Mar 10:52]]* And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.

*[[Luk 18:42]]* And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

*[[2Co 5:7]]* (For we walk by faith, not by sight

*[[Gal 3:11]]* But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
​

If there is a promise, then is true regardless of what we see, experience or believe. That is Truth. That is Faith.

Thanks and Amen for the reply.

I would consider myself a child in this walk of Faith.
having said that: be careful to offend me or put a stumbling block to children/weak like us : )

half kidding, half seriously : )

..... seriously: I think we use different measurement sticks for non-Christians vs. Christian "point of views"

this verse comes to mind in this walk of Faith, hoping that am already a "man" someday..

1 Corinthians 13:9-13New King James Version (NKJV)
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

 

[Abdicate]

@Major A perverse generation requires a sign...we're not asking for signs to believe, but living a lifestyle of faith because of belief. Monumental difference. Believing in God and His promises when our eyes, and all senses, lie, we still see what is not seen to effect the physical realm. That's faith.

 

[Abdicate]

Thanks and Amen for the reply.

I would consider myself a child in this walk of Faith.
having said that: be careful to offend me or put a stumbling block to children/weak like us : )

half kidding, half seriously : )

..... seriously: I think we use different measurement sticks for non-Christians vs. Christian "point of views"

this verse comes to mind in this walk of Faith, hoping that am already a "man" someday..

1 Corinthians 13:9-13New King James Version (NKJV)
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Exactly! And our experiences fill in the gaps our minds cannot comprehend due to those experiences. There is a great show (3 episodes) called Brain Games on Netflix which goes into this in much more amazing details. Everyone should watch it because the weaknesses of our minds is exploited by the devil through our experiences, the experiences of others, and our lack of information. The word of God must be believed in its entirety to get the truth and even then it still must be revealed by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Jim, this debate is quite useless. YOU and Abdicate and Euphemia and CA are all members or followers of the Charismatic Pentecostal denomination. Now one or two will say that they are non-denomination but if you will read the Assembly of God statement of faith you will see that you all follow lock in step. I am NOT a believer in that faith and never will be as I think it is not Biblical and requires way too many Bible verse to be altered to be accepted.

I have noticed that all of you are only interested in ME. That is your reason for your comments. ME!!! Do not all of you see how self centered that is. This is NOT about me.
I among many others do not agree with your denominational teaching which you are putting forth all the time, and because I do not agree with you, all of a sudden you are all worried about ME. NO YOUR NOT!!!!
You are angry because I have taken a stance against what you are preaching and you are wanting make it appear that I am the problem.

I suggest you stop worrying about me and trying to explain your opinions because I do not agree with your theology and when you make comments that are not Bible and I point them out, instead of arguing about them or you worrying that I do no agree with you, we just say God bless and move on.

God bless you Jim!

Greetings Major.,
I have no idea what you are talking about here. I reply to you as you reply to me. Worried about you ? Now how do you get this ? Singled you out ? How do you get this.
Brother I think you have read to much into this and that is that. I have no itention of changing anything about you - that is a full time job for me dealing with the things God points out. Beyound dealing with me (changes) I do not even go there.

Any way nice hearing from you and God bless my friend
Jim