You know more about my history than I do. Kudos
England has more money and having lived in both England and Wales I can feel it Terribly. Wales gets a raw deal. So sad. The coal mines didnt help it I think when they shut.
New Zealand
- Thread starter Lanolin
- Start date
England has more money and having lived in both England and Wales I can feel it Terribly. Wales gets a raw deal. So sad. The coal mines didnt help it I think when they shut.
Though I might know about Britain, I don't quite UNDERSTAND all British history for example, I am not sure why the Prince of Wales (Charles) is the Prince of Wales since he is not Welsh was not born there or lives there. Does that mean he owns Wales?
I only very recently found out about the Scottish clearances and crofters. Many Scots emigrated to NZ because the English were kicking them off the land and turning it into sheep farms. Vast areas of the South Island also became high country stations with large landholdings and impressive homesteads and they were picked by land ballot.
The Scots eventually settled in Dunedin, calling it the Edinburgh of the south, and made their fortune when they found gold in the Otago hills which fueled the economy for man years (until it ran out). Other 'canny' scots made fortunes land speculating, Auckland was basically founded by John Logan Campbell who bought the first land of what was to become the capital of the colony for a very brief period before the land wars in the Waikato. Irish also came as recruits and set up 'fencibles' in East Auckland. Auckland became a barracks for the Brits, and the road to the south leading to Waikato was the invading British army route - they named it Khyber Pass.
After the wars ended the capital moved to Wellington, which was more in the middle of New Zealand to govern the entire two main islands (North and South). It seemed a bit weird how it happened that way ..I mean, why didn't the British Pakeha just agree to settle in the South and Maori in the North Island and have they could have governed their own affairs amicably, each in charge of their own island but freely trading between the two?
I only very recently found out about the Scottish clearances and crofters. Many Scots emigrated to NZ because the English were kicking them off the land and turning it into sheep farms. Vast areas of the South Island also became high country stations with large landholdings and impressive homesteads and they were picked by land ballot.
The Scots eventually settled in Dunedin, calling it the Edinburgh of the south, and made their fortune when they found gold in the Otago hills which fueled the economy for man years (until it ran out). Other 'canny' scots made fortunes land speculating, Auckland was basically founded by John Logan Campbell who bought the first land of what was to become the capital of the colony for a very brief period before the land wars in the Waikato. Irish also came as recruits and set up 'fencibles' in East Auckland. Auckland became a barracks for the Brits, and the road to the south leading to Waikato was the invading British army route - they named it Khyber Pass.
After the wars ended the capital moved to Wellington, which was more in the middle of New Zealand to govern the entire two main islands (North and South). It seemed a bit weird how it happened that way ..I mean, why didn't the British Pakeha just agree to settle in the South and Maori in the North Island and have they could have governed their own affairs amicably, each in charge of their own island but freely trading between the two?
Many years ago, I needed to go to a Miccosukee casino on an investigation. I had no idea I first needed permission from their tribal council. That was an interesting 30 minutes.Staff Clarification: In post # 216, the word "funny" was used. Then in Post # 217, a slight misunderstanding was evident.
In USA English, the word 'funny' when used this way, means 'ironic' - not something humorous.
We must all remember that word usage in one country may not mean the exact same thing in another country. CFS has members from 41 countries at this time and word usage and meaning may differ at times between members.
Thank you.
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Well yes you just don't turn up, did you tell them you were coming?
It's a hospitality thing. You don't just surprise someone because they will be unprepared to offer you the best hospitality. This is partly why Maori are big on welcoming ceremonies. They have to be sure you not a spy who's going to steal or invade them and take all their kumara.
Maori tikanga (customs and protocol) govern their everyday life from greetings to introductions. Every time a tribe visited another tribe at a Marae (meeting place) they would do a powhiri (welcoming ceremony) and hongi (press noses) korero (make a speech) waiata (sing) karakia (pray) and hangi (eat together) to establish good relationships. They'll acknoweldege their ancestors and all those who came before them.
It's actually very much like a church service/ assembly is for Pakeha.
Maori had their formal customs too its not everyone was informal and just behaved anyway they wanted to. When people BROKE these customs or visitors caused offence then there were consequences.
It's actually very much like a church service/ assembly is for Pakeha.
Maori had their formal customs too its not everyone was informal and just behaved anyway they wanted to. When people BROKE these customs or visitors caused offence then there were consequences.
No I did not tell them, I did not know they would have such a silly issue with me. I was there to confirm someone's prior employment.
well they probably would have seen you as being rude. Traditions are there for a reason, you just need to have at least a basic understanding of them. It's the same as with anywhere, even church boards/meetings, you need to go through the elders.
The whole Treaty of Waitangi was signed because it was the Queen that was giving permission for her subjects to be on that land, not just anyone. The Queen had mana/authority. An ordinary person does not.
Otherwise you sign the visitors book like everyone else and are a guest.
Maori have a thing where they see the world as tapu or noa
Tapu is forbidden - meaning you can't do this or touch that, they had very specific rules for sacred places like burial grounds, and if you violated some a tapu there would be utu or payback. You had to say a karakia (prayer or chant) before entering a tapu area, to lift the tapu. It could offend the spirits or ancestors.
Noa means it's ordinary with no restrictions or limitations..its ok.
Of course Pakeha who are new to Maori would have no idea what these things would be when entering a village.
Just as Maori did not know Pakeha customs like money and writing and title deeds and what laws and rules they had.
So, again, cultural misunderstandings and of course they spoke totally different languages.
Tapu is forbidden - meaning you can't do this or touch that, they had very specific rules for sacred places like burial grounds, and if you violated some a tapu there would be utu or payback. You had to say a karakia (prayer or chant) before entering a tapu area, to lift the tapu. It could offend the spirits or ancestors.
Noa means it's ordinary with no restrictions or limitations..its ok.
Of course Pakeha who are new to Maori would have no idea what these things would be when entering a village.
Just as Maori did not know Pakeha customs like money and writing and title deeds and what laws and rules they had.
So, again, cultural misunderstandings and of course they spoke totally different languages.
It's a learning curve for everyone, even within your own culture, what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't.
I stick out like a sore thumb and probably have violated many unwritten rules in my lifetime. For example, sometimes I don't wait for others to and start eating when the food has arrived. Its because I'm hungry and in my household, nobody says prayers before eating and if you don't eat things will get cold. So its rude to keep people waiting when you are all seated and peoples stomachs are rumbling.
But for others, they think its rude for anyone to start eating until all the food is there and someone has made a very long speech.
I stick out like a sore thumb and probably have violated many unwritten rules in my lifetime. For example, sometimes I don't wait for others to and start eating when the food has arrived. Its because I'm hungry and in my household, nobody says prayers before eating and if you don't eat things will get cold. So its rude to keep people waiting when you are all seated and peoples stomachs are rumbling.
But for others, they think its rude for anyone to start eating until all the food is there and someone has made a very long speech.
I don't believe it's a being polite thing. Tribal governments maintain the power to determine their own governance structures, pass laws, and enforce laws through police departments and tribal courts. I just did not know this. The casino I went to is a building in Miami-Dade County. I Did not know the building enjoyed the same status as a foreign embassy. I was not there to arrest anyone. I was just looking for confirmation of employment. Truth be told, I was actually there to find out how to seek employment confirmation. I found them rude and difficult to work with.
it is because you didn't understand the protocol. It is not just being polite. They found you rude, you found them rude. Because both of you didn't understand each other or talk to each other. Also you weren't honest about your intentions, sometimes you need to go through an intermediary, that is why people have secretaries. You can't just go to the chief esp for a minor matter.
Don't be a Karen and say you need to speak to the manager over something minor, managers actually don't have time for that! Though in this day and age, it's sometimes hard to tell who's really in charge.
Wow you really are good at making assumptions. I went to the Casino's HR department, I identified myself as a government investigator, and told them I was there to confirm the prior employment of someone. I was transparent, never even mentioned a "chief," and really did not think I needed to enroll in a local college course on Miccosukee history for something like that.
Ok, I did some reading. Not as impressive as I thought. There are approximately 550 individuals. They have three reservations, on around 128 square miles. I have been to two of the, with one being an alligator farm and the other the casino. Almost all their revenue comes from the casino, as it is the only allowed casino in south Florida. They make between $72 to $106 million yearly. At present, the IRS is attempting to collect $1 billion in back taxes (Hm, wonder if the IRS agents have to meet with the chief's secretary or sign the guest book?)
I don't know how casinos work sorry or what they do about taxes in the US.
Maori don't own casinos here but some own fisheries.
Some have turned to tourism, like whale watching, and guide to thermal places such as Rotorua, which is quite lucrative, but I'm not a bean counter, so I don't know how much money it makes a year. All I know is NZ does rely on tourism for income and Maori can be hospitable when they want to be, but it has to be balanced with looking after the land and leaving some for their own people. When you overrun with visitors it's not always good, especially if its rich tourists who have a reputation for flashing cash and then leaving litter all over the place (Rich, drunken British tourists especially) or camping and befouling natural places and not respecting sacred sites or areas under conservation.
Maori don't own casinos here but some own fisheries.
Some have turned to tourism, like whale watching, and guide to thermal places such as Rotorua, which is quite lucrative, but I'm not a bean counter, so I don't know how much money it makes a year. All I know is NZ does rely on tourism for income and Maori can be hospitable when they want to be, but it has to be balanced with looking after the land and leaving some for their own people. When you overrun with visitors it's not always good, especially if its rich tourists who have a reputation for flashing cash and then leaving litter all over the place (Rich, drunken British tourists especially) or camping and befouling natural places and not respecting sacred sites or areas under conservation.
Nobody particularly likes the taxman or auditors so don't be surprised if they are rude to you. Don't expect people to fawn all over you either when you coming to grade them on whatever. I know chefs get in a panic or suicidal over a michelin star. When I worked for a garden company that did audits, they could make you feel like a leaf out of place was a horrible sin and black mark on your gardening skills. They never said what you were doing right, but always quick to pounce on you doing wrong.
This is what retail does, they send mystery shoppers. So nobody quite knows when they will come and have to be on their best behaviours anyway. But you cannot bribe a mystery shopper and if you normally are rude to everyone then that will be picked up by the mystery shopper.
In universities, after end of every course, its the students who evaluate the teachers, on how well they've taught and what they think they've learned rather than the test scores indicating whether you are a good teacher or not.
This is what retail does, they send mystery shoppers. So nobody quite knows when they will come and have to be on their best behaviours anyway. But you cannot bribe a mystery shopper and if you normally are rude to everyone then that will be picked up by the mystery shopper.
In universities, after end of every course, its the students who evaluate the teachers, on how well they've taught and what they think they've learned rather than the test scores indicating whether you are a good teacher or not.
I've spent my entire adult like working under the scrutiny of one agency or another. Sometimes more than one at the same time.
The Miccosukee are also big on tourism, aside from the casino thing. They have small parks along the road that kind of connects east and west lower Florida (Miami - Tampa). It's Mosty alligator farms and air boat rides.
The Miccosukee are also big on tourism, aside from the casino thing. They have small parks along the road that kind of connects east and west lower Florida (Miami - Tampa). It's Mosty alligator farms and air boat rides.
I didn't know you could farm alligators? Is it for their hides?
Maori were big growers before the Pakeha took their land and turned it to dairy and sheep.
Some maori did get into sheep and dairy farming as share milkers and sheep shearing gangs, but thats seasonal work. I think very few now own the land since the Brits confiscated the best land and wouldn't sell it back to them.
But at least they were not enslaved, that would have been bad. Some found work as domestics but it wasn't really rewarding working for a rich white master and treated as inferior. So they mostly stayed away and lived off what was left of the land, labouring as millers, carpenters, construction, in factories, and then , turning to jobs in the cities after the 1950s.
Maori were told they shouldn't speak maori anymore and learn English and how to get along in a pakeha world, and make money etc. Because their popuation was down and starving and Pakeha didn't think they would survive as a people. Pakeha just thought they should be come white and live in their world and do whatever lowly jobs they could get. Not that many would give them any high up jobs or pay for their higher education, or treat them as equals.
Oh they did fight in the world war (Maori Battalion) FOR the British as nzers. Not sure why? NZ actually won its independence from Great Britain in 1949 but was several years before ties were cut completely and we were left on our own. Britain would supply the guns, NZ would supply the butter.
Then came the land marches and protests, because Maori did not forget what was unjustly taken. Pakeha thought maybe it could all be swept under the rug, but the prison population and the worst poverty, health and crime statistics were over represented by Maori.
Maori were big growers before the Pakeha took their land and turned it to dairy and sheep.
Some maori did get into sheep and dairy farming as share milkers and sheep shearing gangs, but thats seasonal work. I think very few now own the land since the Brits confiscated the best land and wouldn't sell it back to them.
But at least they were not enslaved, that would have been bad. Some found work as domestics but it wasn't really rewarding working for a rich white master and treated as inferior. So they mostly stayed away and lived off what was left of the land, labouring as millers, carpenters, construction, in factories, and then , turning to jobs in the cities after the 1950s.
Maori were told they shouldn't speak maori anymore and learn English and how to get along in a pakeha world, and make money etc. Because their popuation was down and starving and Pakeha didn't think they would survive as a people. Pakeha just thought they should be come white and live in their world and do whatever lowly jobs they could get. Not that many would give them any high up jobs or pay for their higher education, or treat them as equals.
Oh they did fight in the world war (Maori Battalion) FOR the British as nzers. Not sure why? NZ actually won its independence from Great Britain in 1949 but was several years before ties were cut completely and we were left on our own. Britain would supply the guns, NZ would supply the butter.
Then came the land marches and protests, because Maori did not forget what was unjustly taken. Pakeha thought maybe it could all be swept under the rug, but the prison population and the worst poverty, health and crime statistics were over represented by Maori.
I don't think anyone likes bureaucracy except the bureaucrats themselves. Don't take it personally. You are hated because of what you do scrutinising everything (making more work for everyone else) that makes it difficult for others to actually do their own jobs or be innovative. If I just did the same thing all the time to some preconceived rules and routines I would get so bored my brain would drop out.
But some people need bureaucracy in place to keep their brains IN.
But some people need bureaucracy in place to keep their brains IN.
good question. I will have to research. I was using the word "farm" as a lace where animals are kept.
I a unsure anyone actually "hates" me. Some might be scared of me (well, of what do), but that is not hate. Someone has to watch over the masses to make sure everyone is playing by the rules. If not, both the system and the weak are taken advantage of.