On Richness and Poverty

If I see a rich guy driving a ferrari past an orphanage battling to feed the kids properly.......I will not ever in this life or the next think of that rich guy as a Christian. This is where you and I disagree 100%. You somehow think there is something else going on in his heart....like he is unaware of the fact that poor orphans will see him in his ferrari. Now if we were to talk a bout a pastor in that ferarri....the non Christian status is qaudrupled in my mind.

Please understand, I am not saying you cannot live lavishly with money. I am just saying, don't call yourself a Christian if you do. Christianity 101 = modesty / ambassador for Jesus / heart for the orphans, poor and widows.

We must be reading different bibles! I think we should put this to a vote.

kJ
YOU JUDGE far too much in things you have no knowledge of. Do you know what this rich Christian does with his money ? You do not get blessed like this by God with out be a giver and you give where God directs. The fact that you refuse call this man a Christian is something you will stand before the Father with. That is all yours.

Your view on what certain scriptures says is from a human point of understanding with NO real spiritual insight what so ever. You will not ever receive any understanding in this area for your heart is already made up and is now become way side to true biblical prosperity.

God bless you Kj and hey how about you giving the funds the orphans need there.
 
I agree with point number 2, and this applies to any true Christian.
The story about the poor widow giving her last mite illustrates this perfectly. Jesus said that she gave more than everyone else because she gave everything she had to live on while the others gave out of their abundance. It is a heart matter.

Mykuhl this is good but you are taking to differnet situations and trying to place them into one. It can not be done. If a pastor or any Christian is wealthy and it was God who gave them this wealth then they had to and will have to always be giving to others even if YOU do not see it they are. it also does not mjatter if they keep things for them selves or have a fancy car that GOD gave them for God gives all things "richly" not poorly or just a little to enjoy.

God Bless
 
Mykuhl this is good but you are taking to differnet situations and trying to place them into one. It can not be done. If a pastor or any Christian is wealthy and it was God who gave them this wealth then they had to and will have to always be giving to others even if YOU do not see it they are. it also does not mjatter if they keep things for them selves or have a fancy car that GOD gave them for God gives all things "richly" not poorly or just a little to enjoy.

God Bless
Jim, my issue here is not that a Christian/pastor is wealthy it is how he/she uses the wealth that the Lord gave him. It is a stewardship issue, thus a heart issue. God gives us wealth so we have more to give away/help others, not to use it selfishly on ourselves. It is one thing for a Christian to own fancy things and a whole other matter to buy/acquire them himself. Just because a Christian has fancy things does not necessarily mean that he bought them himself and is using it for his pleasure. It could have been given it to him by others or that he using it selflessly. What I DO have a problem with is when a Christian buys/acquires fancy/expensive things himself....to be used for his own pleasure. Let's take the example of a Christian man that buys a Ferrari, a Rolex watch, an Armani suit and $10,000,000 house. He could have just as easily bought a Volkswagen, a Seiko watch, a $300 suit and a $500,000 house and used all the money he saved to give to those in need.
You can't tell me that God would not be far more pleased with the man doing this than spending that same money on luxuries, REGARDLESS of how much he may be giving to those in need.
 
2Co 8:9.. For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.

I think I read somewhere God's streets are made out of pure gold, and all the foundations of his city are precious stones, and every gate into the city are made out of one single huge pearl. Does that sound like "overkill" to you?

I sure would not want to accuse God of having these things.
 
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2Co 8:9.. For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.

I think I read somewhere God's streets are made out of pure gold, and all the foundations of his city are precious stones, and every gate into the city are made out of one single huge pearl. Does that sound like "overkill" to you?

I sure would not want to accuse God of having these things.

That my friend is an entirely different ball game. What you describe with the streets of gold and gems and huge pearls is in heaven/God's kingdom. There is no poor or needy there to provide for. Here in this fallen world we need to provide for those in need with our wealth. Just think about what would happen if everyone in the world that had excess would share with those that had need. There would be no poor and needy left!
 
The "blessings" of the Lord makes one rich. Not that we are to seek to be wealthy, but only seeking his Kingdom.
There is no way the Lord is going to give you something that would harm one of his children.

Jas 1:16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers.
Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.

Pro 23:4.. Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom.

1Ti 6:7.. for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world.
1Ti 6:8.. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.
1Ti 6:9.. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

Pro 10:22.. The blessing of the LORD makes rich, and he adds no sorrow with it.
 
That my friend is an entirely different ball game. What you describe with the streets of gold and gems and huge pearls is in heaven/God's kingdom. There is no poor or needy there to provide for. Here in this fallen world we need to provide for those in need with our wealth. Just think about what would happen if everyone in the world that had excess would share with those that had need. There would be no poor and needy left!
Remember when we are accusing men who God has blessed maybe more than we think they should be, we are actually accusing God who gave it to them.
What ever you do unto the least of my brethren, you have done unto me.
 
I am by no means falsely accusing anyone. I believe I made my point pretty clear in post #23. It's not about someone having more than I personally think they should have it is about being a bad steward with the blessings they were given.
 
I am by no means falsely accusing anyone. I believe I made my point pretty clear in post #23. It's not about someone having more than I personally think they should have it is about being a bad steward with the blessings they were given.

I know you are not accusing anyone, but there are those who do. As for me my riches are in the Wisdom and revelations the Lord has given me concerning his Word. But, at the same time I have all my needs met, and have more than I need. It was not always like that when I first became a Christian, but I have learned that God does supply all my needs according to his riches in Glory. I know this as a fact and believe it to be true.
 
Jim, my issue here is not that a Christian/pastor is wealthy it is how he/she uses the wealth that the Lord gave him. It is a stewardship issue, thus a heart issue. God gives us wealth so we have more to give away/help others, not to use it selfishly on ourselves. It is one thing for a Christian to own fancy things and a whole other matter to buy/acquire them himself. Just because a Christian has fancy things does not necessarily mean that he bought them himself and is using it for his pleasure. It could have been given it to him by others or that he using it selflessly. What I DO have a problem with is when a Christian buys/acquires fancy/expensive things himself....to be used for his own pleasure. Let's take the example of a Christian man that buys a Ferrari, a Rolex watch, an Armani suit and $10,000,000 house. He could have just as easily bought a Volkswagen, a Seiko watch, a $300 suit and a $500,000 house and used all the money he saved to give to those in need.
You can't tell me that God would not be far more pleased with the man doing this than spending that same money on luxuries, REGARDLESS of how much he may be giving to those in need.

Mykuhl,
What you are describing here is nothing more then a poverty mentyality. Oh It is better tyo drive a cheeper car so I can say I gave more. Nothingin what you claim is biblical or sound advise but it is a religious thinking.

If they have a fancy car and God gave it to them then it is theres until God says give it to so and so. They have given more then you know before they even got their house or car. I would urge you to do a study in biblical prosperity and learn from God and not what seems correct.

Ok I buy a new racing engine for my dirt car and it I drop 100 grand on this engine. Now I will use it for my pleasure of racing and God gave me this because he knows I enjoy it. Now in your thinking I am sinful and selfish because I could have bought a cheeper engine and gave more to others. Just an example..

Y0ur heart is good but you thinking is off.
Blessings
 
What mykul is describing is not the poverty mentality. The poverty mentality believes that we should all be in rags and without shoes, and having anything more than necessity is greedy.

Wealth in and of itself isn't bad, scripture is full of examples and is pretty clear on it, however, how we use the wealth, and what we buy, is what matters.
This goes across the whole plane of income levels though.
For example, a rich man buys a $150,000 Ferrari and uses it to minister to a Ferrari owner's club, kind of an out of the box example, but the point is he is using it for the kingdom of God.
On the other hand, you have an average income guy who spends $3,000 on a lawn mower so he can have the luxury and bragging rights of it. He is not using it for the glory of God.

The stuff, and the price tag isn't the problem, all of it is God's anyways, if we don't use it to God's glory, then we fall short. On a side note, it seems (for me atleast) harder and harder to justify spending a ton of money on things that are not necessary. I know it would be hard for me to use a Ferrari as a witness tool , and it would go against my conscious knowing that that money could have been used much more effectively elsewhere. But if that Ferrari is used as a tool to save even one person, then it was a pretty cheap car in my book.
 
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What mykul is describing is not the poverty mentality. The poverty mentality believes that we should all be in rags and without shoes, and having anything more than necessity is greedy.

Wealth in and of itself isn't bad, scripture is full of examples and is pretty clear on it, however, how we use the wealth, and what we buy, is what matters.
This goes across the whole plane of income levels though.
For example, a rich man buys a $150,000 Ferrari and uses it to minister to a Ferrari owner's club, kind of an out of the box example, but the point is he is using it for the kingdom of God.
On the other hand, you have an average income guy who spends $3,000 on a lawn mower so he can have the luxury and bragging rights of it. He is not using it for the glory of God.

The stuff, and the price tag isn't the problem, all of it is God's anyways, if we don't use it to God's glory, then we fall short. On a side note, it seems (for me atleast) harder and harder to justify spending a ton of money on things that are not necessary. I know it would be hard for me to use a Ferrari as a witness tool , and it would go against my conscious knowing that that money could have been used much more effectively elsewhere. But if that Ferrari is used as a tool to save even one person, then it was a pretty cheap car in my book.


You make a couple of decent points. One when a christians lives with a poverty mentality it says.........all i need is the cheeper model for modesty pleases God which is stinken thinken.
If a man can afford to buy a 3000 dollar lawn tyractor because that is what he wopuld enjoy then so be it. You used an example of not using it for Gods glory we fall short. Hmm ya know what say he uses it to cut his grass and hey what say he praises God while cutting such said grass and thanks God for his awesome tractor.

Look you miss the big picture........does a soldier pay his own way ? Does not a farmer keep of the harvest ro slaughter for him self ? When God bless us with finances it does not mean one is wrong for having thingsd for them selves. WHAT IS WRONG IS WHEN THAT IS ALL THAT IS EVER DONE.
 
I find it very interesting that when a man looks at a woman and lusts after her, he has already committed adultery with her. There many men who commit this sin without ever touching a women. Most likely the biggest adulterers are men who have never touch a women in their life!!
It is the same for those who have nothing financially, but have the love of money in their hearts which is the root of all evil. Having prosperity and having money is not evil at all, it is the "love" of these things that makes it bad. You can be poor and have nothing, and suffer from this sin.
 
I find it very interesting that when a man looks at a woman and lusts after her, he has already committed adultery with her. There many men who commit this sin without ever touching a women. Most likely the biggest adulterers are men who have never touch a women in their life!!
It is the same for those who have nothing financially, but have the love of money in their hearts which is the root of all evil. Having prosperity and having money is not evil at all, it is the "love" of these things that makes it bad. You can be poor and have nothing, and suffer from this sin.

Amen and lets dig itno this "Love of Money" a little deeper.
Scripture says the the love of money is the root of all evil. Ever wonder why?
To love after money means it is the very most important thing in your life. You will kill to keep it or get it you will do what ever it takes and step on who ever you must and use this money as power to get your way.

You become driven with a crazed desire consumed with the need for money and it is yours and no one helped you and no one tells you what to do with it. This is the type of person who has a hard time coming into the kingdom of God and not simply a rich wealthy man.

Does this sound about right Curtis ?
Blessings
Jim
 
Amen and lets dig itno this "Love of Money" a little deeper.
Scripture says the the love of money is the root of all evil. Ever wonder why?
To love after money means it is the very most important thing in your life. You will kill to keep it or get it you will do what ever it takes and step on who ever you must and use this money as power to get your way.

You become driven with a crazed desire consumed with the need for money and it is yours and no one helped you and no one tells you what to do with it. This is the type of person who has a hard time coming into the kingdom of God and not simply a rich wealthy man.

Does this sound about right Curtis ?
Blessings
Jim
I agree brother. I have needs in my life, and I have wants. All my needs are met according to his riches in Glory, and my wants I eventually always get as God withholds no good thing from those who walk uprightly before him.

Psa_84:11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

Walking upright before God is a lot easier than lusting over and trying to get things the worldly way. Keeping our hearts and mind on the Lord 24/7 not only gives us peace, but it also allows the Lord to provide us everything to enjoy as his child.
 
Amen and lets dig itno this "Love of Money" a little deeper.
Scripture says the the love of money is the root of all evil. Ever wonder why?
To love after money means it is the very most important thing in your life. You will kill to keep it or get it you will do what ever it takes and step on who ever you must and use this money as power to get your way.

You become driven with a crazed desire consumed with the need for money and it is yours and no one helped you and no one tells you what to do with it. This is the type of person who has a hard time coming into the kingdom of God and not simply a rich wealthy man.

Does this sound about right Curtis ?
Blessings
Jim
Actually, Jesus commended the rich young man for the good he did and told him he lacked one thing yet. He was not willing to give up that one thing to follow Jesus. That is why Jesus said it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
I agree brother. I have needs in my life, and I have wants. All my needs are met according to his riches in Glory, and my wants I eventually always get as God withholds no good thing from those who walk uprightly before him.

Psa_84:11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

Walking upright before God is a lot easier than lusting over and trying to get things the worldly way. Keeping our hearts and mind on the Lord 24/7 not only gives us peace, but it also allows the Lord to provide us everything to enjoy as his child.

Amen for God gives "all things" "richly" to enjoy but a little bit of common sense in His ways would tell you that you are not just going to get things because you want them. Seek God and His Righteousness first then these things will be added.

By doing this you learn of His ways and have learned to put them into practice or another words lving them daily 24/7/365
 
Actually, Jesus commended the rich young man for the good he did and told him he lacked one thing yet. He was not willing to give up that one thing to follow Jesus. That is why Jesus said it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Wealth can be a barrier, indeed. So can many other things. It is difficult for a lusty or promiscuous man or a gambling man or a drunkard to enter heaven also. You have to put it into perspective. Jesus told that young wealthy man to sell all he had because He could read his heart---no one else could---and He alone knew what was standing in the way of him receiving Jesus' gift of life. Now, that prescription is not given to any of us, like so many misguided people like to think.
 
Actually, Jesus commended the rich young man for the good he did and told him he lacked one thing yet. He was not willing to give up that one thing to follow Jesus. That is why Jesus said it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Brother not quite correct with this one. It was not about the money. Think about all the things jesus asked Him and the boy said he did themor does them....Not once was LOVE mentioned. THis boy had not ever heard of wealking in Love or loving the brethren and so forth. Giving his wealth away was for him to learn how to love and fall in love with people.
If this boy would have done this he would have replaced judus and become the treasurer for Jesus.
 
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