One important thing in readying yourself for Christ's return

[Musicmaster]

Hmm. Shut out of salvation doesn't seem to be the message of that parable, but we're not allowed to discuss the "other" implication. It was the wedding celebration of the Lamb, which takes place at a time before the earthly Kingdom at His second coming to this earth.

Anyway, I just wanted to see if we were at least close in our understanding of that parable.

MM

 

[Shepherd Boy]

Of course at the time of Jesus speaking the parable, it would not of have spoken to salvation as we know it. I think the implications can speak to us in that we have been given such a great opportunity, invited through the offer of salvation, but yet out of the lack of seriousness, rebellion or lack of understanding in what we have been given that some will not be not prepared to meet Him. These are the foolish people which Jesus calls them correctly. I don't know any other words you can use.

It is a prevailing thought in the parable of talents when we see the one who did nothing with what He had been given
or this in Matthew 24
42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what [g]hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
and continues on to say,
45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food [i]in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying ]his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Or expanded on here in the booK of Luke chapter 12
35Be dressed for service and keep your lamps burning. 36Then you will be like servants waiting for their master to return from the wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks, they can open the door for him at once. 37Blessed are those servants whom the master finds on watch when he returns. Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve and will have them recline at the table, and he himself will come and wait on them. 38Even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night and finds them alert, those servants will be blessed.

39But understand this: If the homeowner had known at what hour the thief was coming,g he would not have let his house be broken into. 40You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour you do not expect.”

41“Lord,” said Peter, “are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?”

42And the Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their portion at the proper time? 43Blessed is that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 44Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
45But suppose that servant says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and he begins to beat the menservants and maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

47That servant who knows his master’s will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from him who has been entrusted with much, even more will be demanded.

I think it is the seriousness of our faith that Jesus is making reference too. Obeying His commands and following Him. And remaining in Him as so many writers of the scriptures point out and I don't think were joking. This should give us all pause to ask about the life we are living?
Some will suffer judgment, but I believe some will suffer eternally for taking God's gift for granted, because this is the message the scriptures portray for us from beginning to end. God wants to offer us a good life, a fruitful life but on His terms because He created it to serve His purpose and not ours. And I will stop there because that statement could become a book. lol

Hmm. Shut out of salvation doesn't seem to be the message of that parable, but we're not allowed to discuss the "other" implication. It was the wedding celebration of the Lamb, which takes place at a time before the earthly Kingdom at His second coming to this earth.

Anyway, I just wanted to see if we were at least close in our understanding of that parable.

MM

Did you mean we are not allowed to discuss the other implications on this forum? Just curious?
That is my thoughts anyway, maybe not shared in the same way by others

 

[forgiven61]

if our heart is right then that is the big key. we should should note should live like we know he is returning at any moment. but we dont we lose focus on watching for his appearing . just make SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH OIL FOR OUR LAMPS, that is continual process

 

[crossnote]

if our heart is right then that is the big key. we should should note should live like we know he is returning at any moment. but we dont we lose focus on watching for his appearing . just make SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH OIL FOR OUR LAMPS, that is continual process

It's funny, both the wise and the foolish (virgins) grew drowsy and began to sleep...

vs. 5. "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep"

 

[Musicmaster]

It's funny, both the wise and the foolish (virgins) grew drowsy and began to sleep...

vs. 5. "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep"

Hmm. See? There are all kinds of nuances we can glean from the text that are so easily overlooked.

Good catch, CN.

MM

 

[crossnote]

Hmm. See? There are all kinds of nuances we can glean from the text that are so easily overlooked.

Good catch, CN.

MM

I don't know, that might put a dent in the position that oil = preparedness.

 

[Major]

Hello Major;

That is a great question but first, if I may ask,

Have some of us noticed that the discussions such as your question have more substance these last days?

Its nice to get back into Talking Jesus and allowing us to think, for example, about readying ourselves for Christ's return.

Back to the question. To be honest I never gave much thought about the theme of every sermon being about the 2nd Coming.

I do remember trusting most of the preachers who pray about receiving the Word of God before giving the message. But I will say many of the sermons arrived or included the message of acceptance and being ready for Christ's return.

I probably worded that question wrong.

I guess what I was asking was as we preach the Word of God, and we are convinced, Jesus is coming again soon......do you feel the urgency to proclaim that fact more frequently than ever before?

 

[Musicmaster]

I don't know, that might put a dent in the position that oil = preparedness.

That they all fell asleep, that says something I had never through about before. I'll have to give that some more think.

 

[Musicmaster]

Perhaps that oil is representative of the measure of truth some had in relation to others. There are many out there who are merely religious because they believe in a false christ who's totally unknown to the scriptures. Some denominational and cultic groupings believe in a christ who can't save anyone. Those who follow such a one will then realize that they were following the wrong christ, but only after it's too late, and thus had to go out and set their beliefs right in order to be aligned with the TRUE Christ, and their previous belief system will have then relegated them to enduring tribulation and tremendous persecution, and thus end up numbered among those John saw, and was asked about by one of the 24 elders.

(shrug) Just a thought to kick around and see if the pieces fit the texts as we read them.

MM

 

[forgiven61]

It's funny, both the wise and the foolish (virgins) grew drowsy and began to sleep...

vs. 5. "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep"

but who had the lamps ready and extra oil ? who asked to buy some of the oil .? we all get drowsy spiritually its a every day job to stay awake spiritually . is getting drowsy a excuse ? no how many can honestly say they live as if the watch could turn to a warning he is coming at the very moment ?

 

[bobinfaith]

It's funny, both the wise and the foolish (virgins) grew drowsy and began to sleep...

vs. 5. "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep"

Hmm. See? There are all kinds of nuances we can glean from the text that are so easily overlooked.

Good catch, CN.

MM

I don't know, that might put a dent in the position that oil = preparedness.

That they all fell asleep, that says something I had never through about before. I'll have to give that some more think.

Perhaps that oil is representative of the measure of truth some had in relation to others. There are many out there who are merely religious because they believe in a false christ who's totally unknown to the scriptures. Some denominational and cultic groupings believe in a christ who can't save anyone. Those who follow such a one will then realize that they were following the wrong christ, but only after it's too late, and thus had to go out and set their beliefs right in order to be aligned with the TRUE Christ, and their previous belief system will have then relegated them to enduring tribulation and tremendous persecution, and thus end up numbered among those John saw, and was asked about by one of the 24 elders.

(shrug) Just a thought to kick around and see if the pieces fit the texts as we read them.

MM

Hello MM and crossnote;

I've got my student hat on. As I'm reading the Scriptures in Matthew 25:1-12, the Parable of the ten virgins and the preparedness of Christ's coming;

I feel the interpretation and what God says are not limited to only one cut and dry teaching, but additional angles that I feel you are pointing out. If I'm correct then I'm in agreement with you.

MM, please elaborate more on the oil representation especially the part you mentioned where the Holy Spirit is not represented of the oil.

However, I do believe the preparedness includes our spiritual condition and what God has entrusted us.

God bless you all and your families.

 

[Musicmaster]

Hello MM and crossnote;

I've got my student hat on. As I'm reading the Scriptures in Matthew 25:1-12, the Parable of the ten virgins and the preparedness of Christ's coming;

I feel the interpretation and what God says are not limited to only one cut and dry teaching, but additional angles that I feel you are pointing out. If I'm correct then I'm in agreement with you.

MM, please elaborate more on the oil representation especially the part you mentioned where the Holy Spirit is not represented of the oil.

However, I do believe the preparedness includes our spiritual condition and what God has entrusted us.

God bless you all and your families.

Bob, I was just talking to my wife about the oil today, and she disagreed, saying that she thinks that oil IS representative of Holy Spirit given the many other representations of oil throughout scripture as a sort of representational reference to the Spirit.

Although I agreed with her in principle, my reason for the differentiation of the oil from the Spirit in this case is that the five wise virgins recommended the foolish ones go out and "buy" additional oil. That doesn't set right with me given that one cannot purchase Holy Spirit, and wise followers of Christ would never even suggest to anyone that money can buy Holy Spirit influence nor filling.

Additionally, I don't believe there is a measure where Holy Spirit is concerned. Either one has Holy Spirit within him or her, or they do not. We've all heard about the "fullness" of Holy Spirit and such, but I still don't see that as necessarily a "measure" of the Spirit, but rather the power the Spirit so chooses to exercise in and/or through an individual.

CN drove home to me our need to pay VERY close attention to ALL the words in order to seek deeper the parallel to that oil. In this case, I don't think we can rightly draw that line to the Spirit of the Lord...not in that case.

I hope that elicits some food for thought leading to some good discussion if someone sees some flaws in my reasoning.

MM

 

[Shepherd Boy]

That they all fell asleep, that says something I had never through about before. I'll have to give that some more think.

That they all fell asleep, that says something I had never through about before. I'll have to give that some more think.

but who had the lamps ready and extra oil ? who asked to buy some of the oil .? we all get drowsy spiritually its a every day job to stay awake spiritually . is getting drowsy a excuse ? no how many can honestly say they live as if the watch could turn to a warning he is coming at the very moment ?

A thought I had concerning that drowsiness/sleep is it being a metaphor for it was a long time in coming, the bridegroom (our lord) that is for them on the B.C. side and for us now on the A.C. They were waiting for the messiah the first time, we are now waiting for the Lord a second time and it is taking awhile. The early church was looking for the bridegroom to return in there time the night has certainly grown long.

if our heart is right then that is the big key. we should should note should live like we know he is returning at any moment. but we dont we lose focus on watching for his appearing . just make SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH OIL FOR OUR LAMPS, that is continual process

I like what forgiven said, it reminds me of being dressed up with no place to go. And in light of these scriptures many generations have passed since Jesus ascension and promised return, but we are ready either way if we close our eyes before He comes or are ready when He arrives.
I definitely think you can't look at this parable just on our side of the cross, but that the Lord was speaking to Jews on that side before the cross. Some were ready for Him. A remnant like Mary his mother, his earthly relational dad-Joseph and the others that recognized who he was when the call went out the bridegroom is here. Think of the angles, or John the baptist, or the two witnesses in revelation and us announcing the bridegroom is coming!
Thinking of the angels announcements... The angels said, born to you this day! and then the day when the disciples were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”…

So I think of it applying to both to the Jews then and after the cross to all of us now. It makes me think about seeking, asking, and knocking and what we find becomes the oil in our lamps that light our way to meet Him, but not everyone will be ready.

 

[forgiven61]

A thought I had concerning that drowsiness/sleep is it being a metaphor for it was a long time in coming, the bridegroom (our lord) that is for them on the B.C. side and for us now on the A.C. They were waiting for the messiah the first time, we are now waiting for the Lord a second time and it is taking awhile. The early church was looking for the bridegroom to return in there time the night has certainly grown long.


I like what forgiven said, it reminds me of being dressed up with no place to go. And in light of these scriptures many generations have passed since Jesus ascension and promised return, but we are ready either way if we close our eyes before He comes or are ready when He arrives.
I definitely think you can't look at this parable just on our side of the cross, but that the Lord was speaking to Jews on that side before the cross. Some were ready for Him. A remnant like Mary his mother, his earthly relational dad-Joseph and the others that recognized who he was when the call went out the bridegroom is here. Think of the angles, or John the baptist, or the two witnesses in revelation and us announcing the bridegroom is coming!
Thinking of the angels announcements... The angels said, born to you this day! and then the day when the disciples were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”…

So I think of it applying to both to the Jews then and after the cross to all of us now. It makes me think about seeking, asking, and knocking and what we find becomes the oil in our lamps that light our way to meet Him, but not everyone will be ready.

after the cross is of the upmost importance . our waiting /serving of his return Colossians chapter 3 :
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. tell us how to be ready

 

[crossnote]

I feel the interpretation and what God says are not limited to only one cut and dry teaching, but additional angles that I feel you are pointing out. If I'm correct then I'm in agreement with you.

Bob, I was only asking questions and posing possibilities...no cut and dry teaching.

 

[Musicmaster]

Hello MM and crossnote;

I've got my student hat on. As I'm reading the Scriptures in Matthew 25:1-12, the Parable of the ten virgins and the preparedness of Christ's coming;

I feel the interpretation and what God says are not limited to only one cut and dry teaching, but additional angles that I feel you are pointing out. If I'm correct then I'm in agreement with you.

MM, please elaborate more on the oil representation especially the part you mentioned where the Holy Spirit is not represented of the oil.

However, I do believe the preparedness includes our spiritual condition and what God has entrusted us.

God bless you all and your families.

Another aspect of that imagery is the foolish virgin asking for oil from the wise ones. We cannot give even a portion of the Spirit to anyone, given that God is Sovereign, so that drives home even more to me that the oil cannot be representative of the Spirit. We also cannot share our preparedness to others apart from something physical. So paying close attention to the wording, excluding spiritualizing the language, it gives us much to consider.

MM

 

[Shepherd Boy]

Another aspect of that imagery is the foolish virgin asking for oil from the wise ones. We cannot give even a portion of the Spirit to anyone, given that God is Sovereign, so that drives home even more to me that the oil cannot be representative of the Spirit. We also cannot share our preparedness to others apart from something physical. So paying close attention to the wording, excluding spiritualizing the language, it gives us much to consider.

MM

I have to agree with you on this. And realizing that Jesus was speaking to an audience of probably Moses believing Jews who were being prepared for His arrival at some point by the prophets (not realizing He whom the prophets spoke of was standing before them) that had to have implications to them different yet similar to us. We are all waiting on the bridegroom too in the way of His second return.

The foolish ones were left wanting as their lights were going out in the darkness because of the lack of oil. They were told go back and buy, but while they were away the bridegroom comes and those who were ready went.
That act of buying brings this verse to mind, Isaiah 55:1,2 “Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you without money, come, buy, and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost! Why spend money on that which is not bread, and your labor on that which does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, and your soul will delight in the richest of foods. 3 Incline your ear and come to Me; listen, so that your soul may live.

And The disturbing part that is hard for us as compassionate Christians is when they finally did arrive it was too late. Not only was it to late, but He said I do not know you.

But weren't those 5 other women also invited? and even appeared to be ready for the occasion? Why did He say, " I do not know you?” when they showed up at the door. Was it because they were not prepared and had taken something for granted? Is this the type of person the bridegroom would not recognize as someone knowing Him? Wouldn't someone knowing Him be ready? These are questions for us.

The fact that they didn't bring extra oil adds to what MM said, and would also be the thought they did not have extra Spirit. Is extra Spirit possible? Isn’t having the Spirit based on our continued walk with Him in obedience? Starting with our reception and agreement with the salvation we have been offered, not stopping there but continuing in a willful acknowledgment of His will as we grow in our knowledge of Him.
These verses might also be fitting here from Paul,

1 thessalonians 5:19-21 Do not extinguish the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies (instruction & direction) with contempt, but test all things. Hold fast to what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

I am sure the virgins had to express some excuse when they showed up at the door, like maybe saying, “we didn’t know it would get so late so we had not brought extra oil for our lamps?” Just thinking… So, I guess you could kind of say, they were assigned a place with all the others on the outside because they were not there when he came. I can imagine them weeping and gnashing their teeth (regret) standing outside in the darkness.

 

[CPerkins]

This is a great example of how one can glean more from the scriptures every time they are read.

All the virgins slept, yet half where prepared with oil and half not, even though they slept.
In our vigilance God knows we need periods of rest after all we cannot remain on 24 hour watch for days, months and years.
Half the virgins were told to buy oil and came back late and were not recognized by Christ.

The lesson of preparedness is an important part of the parable, but this discussion has brought out that there are other nuances of understanding that can be gleaned from the parable, and most of these nuances require digging into other scriptures and building an understanding of the full context of the Bible.

When studying a passage such as this I like to write out a list of questions, even questions I think I know the answers too.. Many times the immediate context will explain some of the answers to the questions. At other times, it is necessary to explore other scriptures to find the answers.

 

[Musicmaster]

This just keeps getting better all the time. Good stuff.

So, the oil is not the Spirit, and it is not preparedness necessarily, but maybe, just maybe, the oil is representative of a measure of forgiveness from the Lord after having confessed and repented:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Perhaps unrighteousness depletes our "oil" so to speak, and in that state of depletion, one is therefore not prepared by way of continual confession and daily repentance, one is left unprepared for when He comes. That suggests an inverse thought process about the oil, does it not, thus masking the meaning from those who do not study to show themselves approved of God?

In these discussions, therefore, we can share the precious things with others that help encourage them to likewise delve into the scriptures, and seek the Lord for the greater depths of what He may give liberally to all who ask with hearts having been cleansed through confession before the Lord, and active repentance every day. That's one of my daily mottos..."Repent every day so that I may not continue in repeating past sins."

In other words, sin pokes holes in our oil reservoir, and thus we go about the day unprepared for when He comes for His own.

Hmm. This drives me to even deeper reverence before the Lord in this moment. The more our eyes are opened toward the Holy of Holies to see His Light, the more we are driven to our knees, on our faces, in worship of the Most High.

So, the "purchase" is the price for confession and repentance. THAT I can agree with when it comes to what we may "buy" in a not-so-physical sense. Prayer is special, within which we confess, and declare our active repentance validated by our actions. That seems more consistent with the text, would y'all agree?

MM

 

[bobinfaith]

Bob, I was only asking questions and posing possibilities...no cut and dry teaching.

This is a great example of how one can glean more from the scriptures every time they are read.

All the virgins slept, yet half where prepared with oil and half not, even though they slept.
In our vigilance God knows we need periods of rest after all we cannot remain on 24 hour watch for days, months and years.
Half the virgins were told to buy oil and came back late and were not recognized by Christ.

The lesson of preparedness is an important part of the parable, but this discussion has brought out that there are other nuances of understanding that can be gleaned from the parable, and most of these nuances require digging into other scriptures and building an understanding of the full context of the Bible.

When studying a passage such as this I like to write out a list of questions, even questions I think I know the answers too.. Many times the immediate context will explain some of the answers to the questions. At other times, it is necessary to explore other scriptures to find the answers.

This just keeps getting better all the time. Good stuff.

So, the oil is not the Spirit, and it is not preparedness necessarily, but maybe, just maybe, the oil is representative of a measure of forgiveness from the Lord after having confessed and repented:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Perhaps unrighteousness depletes our "oil" so to speak, and in that state of depletion, one is therefore not prepared by way of continual confession and daily repentance, one is left unprepared for when He comes. That suggests an inverse thought process about the oil, does it not, thus masking the meaning from those who do not study to show themselves approved of God?

In these discussions, therefore, we can share the precious things with others that help encourage them to likewise delve into the scriptures, and seek the Lord for the greater depths of what He may give liberally to all who ask with hearts having been cleansed through confession before the Lord, and active repentance every day. That's one of my daily mottos..."Repent every day so that I may not continue in repeating past sins."

In other words, sin pokes holes in our oil reservoir, and thus we go about the day unprepared for when He comes for His own.

Hmm. This drives me to even deeper reverence before the Lord in this moment. The more our eyes are opened toward the Holy of Holies to see His Light, the more we are driven to our knees, on our faces, in worship of the Most High.

So, the "purchase" is the price for confession and repentance. THAT I can agree with when it comes to what we may "buy" in a not-so-physical sense. Prayer is special, within which we confess, and declare our active repentance validated by our actions. That seems more consistent with the text, would y'all agree?

MM

Hey brothers;

Each one of you made my point by blue-lighting what you posted. Asking questions, posing possibilities, seek the Lord for greater depths, digging into other Scriptures and honing in to the full context of the Bible.

I also do my fair share of teaching and continue being a student. It can be challenging to explain that Scripture is not one dimensional, for example, the discussion of the oils which can have other teachable interpretations.

Shallow study of the Word can be in a sense "unpreparedness." The deeper we study the Word, the better we understand, the better we grasp our daily living and ultimately our preparedness.

God bless everyone and this discussion.