Well, I guess Armageddon is in there somewhere (ch 14).Sorry calvin, but I believe chapter 14 is a picture of Armageddon, not the Rapture.
Verses 14-16 are a picture Christs judgment as a grain harvest, and verses 17-20 pictures the same event as a grape harvest.
Notice that when Jesus comes at the Rapture He comes with a "Trumpet Voice". The shout will be.......
"COME UP HITHER", which is the same thing He says to John in Rev. 4:1.
But in Rev. 14 He is seen comeing with a sharp sickle in His hand. The sickle is a picture of harvest. The Lamb of God is about to reap the harvest of the earth. He will seperate the tares from the wheat and it will be a time of blood. BUT............
those who are born again are SAVED from this time of wrath by the Rapture 7 years earlier.
Verse 16........"And He that sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth and the earth was reaped".
Judgment day comes!!!!
When the day of judgment comes, men will then experience the plagues explained in chapters 15-16.
To be honest Gene, I think you need to be careful with this.Calvin, who are the servants of God sealed in chapter 7, ....144 000 Jewish evangelists, who do they evangelize, ... the Jews first and also those people who have never heard the Gospel, i.e. those in the cults and other religions.
We are told by the elder these people washed their own robes, whereas we have been washed by Christ, this "work" (we are saved by grace and not by works) was accomplished by their not renouncing their faith in Jesus before the AC and were decapitated, ...where did the elder say they were standing, in front of the throne, whereas we are sitting on the throne with Chris, ...what is their service for all of eternity, to serve the Lord, whereas we are His bride and will be by His side (the explanation for the spear thrust into His side on the cross) for all eternity.
Blessings
Gene
To be honest Gene, I think you need to be careful with this.
Where does the Bible tell us that these 144,000 are 'Jewish Evangelists'? All the Bible tells us is that they are the 'servants of our God'
I see the 144,000 representing the perfect number of saved persons, sealed to protect them from the work of the four angels that appear in verse 1.
You say in part, "We are told by the elder these people washed their own robes, whereas we have been washed by Christ,"
Gene we are washed in/by the Blood of Christ. These people are no different to any others who have endured to the end...whatever that end might be.
To be honest Gene, I think you need to be careful with this.
Where does the Bible tell us that these 144,000 are 'Jewish Evangelists'? All the Bible tells us is that they are the 'servants of our God'. Gene it's not me "saying" this, it's what God has said. Just about any commentary will say that the 144,000 are Jewish evangelists (except the JWs) I see the 144,000 representing the perfect number of saved persons, sealed to protect them from the work of the four angels that appear in verse 1.
Those who are said to come out of the great tribulation are also said to be servants of God, v14.
Numbers in scripture have some significance. Twelve being perfect government, 12 sons of Israel, twelve months in a year, twelve tribes, 12 disciples etc. Also, the New Jerusalem is said to be 12000 x 12000 x 12000 stadia that would be 1,728 billion cubic furlongs,/stadia or about 10,941,048,000,000,000,000 cubic meters. That is going to be able to house more that just a few people I'd say.
It may well be that because the numbers cited are exact, 12,000 not 11,059 or 12121 etc, that these 144ooo represent not an exact numeric value, but absolute completion.
You say in part, "We are told by the elder these people washed their own robes, whereas we have been washed by Christ,"
Gene we are washed in/by the Blood of Christ. These people are no different to any others who have endured to the end...whatever that end might be.
I agree with you calvin on the Jewish "Evangelists". They are a remnant for sure from Israel, but there is no clear explanation on them being "Evangelists".
Major, what else could they be? They are "sealed" on their foreheads with the seal of the living God, , the dry bones prophesy tells us Israel is alive physically today, but not spiritually, the majority of the Jews in Israel today don't follow God, so with Angels flying through the sky announcing the Gospel, two Old Testament prophets prophesying in the streets of Jerusalem (don't you know modern day Jerusalem will blow their minds) and these 144000 Jewish men with a noticeable, evident seal on their forehead, what else could they talk about? Can't you just imagine the questions they will be asked, their seal will be different from the AC seal, ..."duh, I don't know, I was grabbed by shiny guy and he branded me," I don't think so, all through Scripture when Angels confronted people the people knew something supernatural was going down, just put yourself in their place, how would you react, ...just think about.
And, tell me, we take the 70 weeks prophesy in Daniel literally, we take the days recorded of the Flood literally, we take the number of years of Jesus's ministry literally, we take the three days and three night literally, so tell me (I'm asking anybody), by what Divine authority do we have to pick and chose which numbers in Scripture are literal or figurative, I've asked this question many times and have yet to have a Scriptural answer, ...thank you for bringing it up.
And...., you've answered the $64000 question, ...who would be left here on earth at the end.
Blessings,
Gene
BUT, the fact is that there is not a clear explanation of them being Evangelists. It would come from the teaching of "Implied Truth". In other words there is plenty of teaching and explanations to allow us to accept that they are Evangelists without actually saying as such.
And the top of the morning to you my brother, may the Lord richly bless your socks off today!!!
Okay, so even if we don't say they are "evangelists" Scripture teaches they can't be a part of the Church.
That's interesting, we know and teach that the New Testament doctrines are played out in the lives of the Old Testament saints, a picture for us so to speak, and while it might be an "Implied Truth" the Holy Spirit uses them to teach us and we learn and grow from them, why shouldn't/can't He use the same method in the New Testament, why can't we say with certainty? I mean, once we have been taught BY the Holy Spirit (and not man) a Truth that Truth doesn't change later on down the line, He can add to it, embellish it, open up new understanding about that Truth, add new dimensions to it, but it always remains THE Truth, no?
What we have been taught BY revelation from the Holy Spirit, it's ours, we OWN it, no one can take it from us, for example, the foundational Truth, Jesus is God, we own that, people can come, knock on our doors, pedal up to us on their bikes, protest against God, say He is even dead or doesn't exist or it's just an old Jewish fable, but that doesn't change the Truth and they can't take it from us or change our minds, if I were given the choice and I'm certain you would do the same thing to, to reject the Truth that Jesus is God or die, I would have to chose death, that's what our brother and sisters who have been martyred have done, the Truth is what gave them the strength to stand for Jesus, so then, what Truth, that we have been taught by revelation from the Holy Spirit, be it ever so trivial, could we, in the same circumstance, reject? Be it ever so trivial, to reject it would be to reject our beloved Jesus because He IS the Word, even the if, ands and tos, ...how could I do that, if I owned it that would make me a liar, how could I reject the One who loves me to the point of dying for me?
This isn't a rant, just what's in my heart about THE Truth and it's importance in our lives and determines our walk with the Lord,
Later,
Gene
Yes Gene I have read those and other inspired writings. No, I don't take your posts as being in anyway offensive.???????? Calvin, please don't take this the wrong way, it's an honest question, but have you read chapter 7 verses 4-8? Jesus said the 144000 were Jewish and then He named the tribes that each group of 12000 came from, Judah, Reuben, Gad etc., how can there be any question as to who the 144000 are?
As for your post #149, I confess I have not had time to marry your statements with the actual Bible verses for proper study.I'll go along with what you say about the number 12 (Numbers in Scripture by Bulinger is an excellent read), but I/we/the Church won't need to be protected from what the angels will do to the earth because we are already in Heaven, Chapt 4, the Church will not go through the Trib for the reasons I quoted from Scripture in #149 and if that isn't enough Jesus's own promise in Rev 3:10.
Question.................has the Church lived up to the bargain?Replacement theology is the belief that the "Christian Church" has replaced Israel as far as the promises made to Israel in the Old Testament are concerned.
I.e. God made many promises to Israel, Israel did not live up to the bargain, the Church has inherited the promises as opposed to Israel in particular.
Question.................has the Church lived up to the bargain?.