Question About Former Church

[Brother Paul]

No giants, the demons have all been defeated, what plagues mankind is their sin and false doctrine.

He was speaking figuratively though there are still malevolent spirits effecting unbelievers (2 Corinthians 4:4 stated after the resurrection says, "...the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.") It is we who faithe that have been set free.

I believe this only applies to those who would faithe...

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver ( to snatch away, rescue, save) them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

IMO those still who live for self in fear of death, are still subject to this bondage...what do you think?

 

[calvin]

___________________________________________

Thank you for taking the time, Beloved.
I agree with what you have written...except for not quite understanding #4: I take it Paul was referring to going back to serve the Law, and not circumcision by itself.
It would also be my contention that a person who will try to justify himself by any other means except through the Gospel that saves, is in peril of making grace null and void in their lives.

I know some will say that believing in Jesus is enough for salvation; I would have to counter and say, do you believe enough to obey? No? Tnen believing will profit you nothing. Yes? Then obey!

Yes, point 4 is hard to get a grip on in the context of 'replacement' theology....but there it is.
As for myself, I believe to proffer it as a support for the idea of replacement of a people is rather lame, as are all the arguments.
I suppose the thinking runs along the line that because the old covenant (of which circumcision is a part) has been replaced, those (the Jews), who still practice it are replaced as well.
Jesus paid an incredibly high price to redeem/purchase men for God::not to 'trade up'
Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,
We have this song in our hearts and we can not or should not ever allow replacement of it with any other song.

 

[Brother Paul]

I will put this out there for serious consideration; if, as some insist, the promises to Israel are only to the nation of Israel, then where did those promises come from? WHY did God help Israel and give them Moses and take them out of Egypt in the first place and lead them to Canaan?
The answer of course is that He did it to fulfill His everlasting covenant with Abraham. The covenant with Israel (which is not the covenant He wanted to make, but was a concession to their pride (He said I am poised to make you a nation of Kings of Priests, and they said, whatever you have for us to do, we are well-able to do it, so they removed themselves from the covenant of grace and forced God to make a covenant of Law with them so they could earn the blessing rather than get it like they had been, through grace (favor)) is the fulfillment of the covenant with Abraham and is therefore a continuation of the original covenant with Abraham.
Then when Jesus comes, He is the final fulfillment of both covenants, though it started with Abraham.
God did not bless the "nation" of Abraham, He blessed HIM. Just as He did not bless the nation of Isaac, but blessed Isaac himself.
Jacob/Israel was blessed HIMSELF, and so were all his seed. It was by birth, if you were of the bloodline of Abraham, you had the blessing of the Lord on you.
Then people say foolish things like, well if the Blessing makes you rich, why isn't EVERY Believer rich, since that's God's perfect will?

Then we have to ask since God's perfect will is that EVERONE knows Him and receives Christ, why isn't EVERYONE saved yet? That's God's will after all - He is not willing that ANY should perish. Yet we know that we have billions of earthlings who do NOT know God or Jesus. How is this possible if God's will is for ALL mankind to come to Christ.....hmmm....?
If God's perfect will is that no one is ever abused/hurt/harmed, etc, then how is it that people suffer these things...and "good" people too...even Christians...? For God's perfect will is Heaven, where no one is ever harmed, just like in Eden...yet how can it be so...?
Is is possible that just because something is God's will, it doesn't mean that it is AUTOMATIC?

God's will is that all be saved, yet that is not automatic, it took us acting in faith and receiving what He had already done and the Word became salvation to us...
In the same way, God's people the Israelites were in Egypt, in God's will in that they were His people through the covenant with Abraham. Yet they suffered slavery and did not even own their own bodies and never had enough (and yet it took over 400 years until SOMEONE called out in faith to God...astounding!).
Then they are brought out with miracles and into the wilderness where they have just enough, and God does fabulous things on this short journey, yet all the while He is letting them know it is not His perfect will, but that He has a place He calls the Promised Land (promised to who? ABRAHAM) which is Canaan the land of abundance, of always more than enough.
Then they come to Canaan, and they give an evil unbelieving report of what God has called good and they cannot enter because of unbelief. Was that God's will that they wander for 40 years while the unbelieving people of God's people died off? He said it wasn't.
Yet their unbelief is recorded for us it says in 1 Cor 10 to serve as an example for us that we may not miss out on God's perfect will as they did.
See also Hebrews 3 and 4 for this too (and note that God says the GOSPEL was preached unto them - the Blessing).

God's will was that MOSES go into the Promised Land, but Joshua did it instead because Moses disqualified himself. God's will was that the journey to the Promised Land took about a week or so, but the people disqualified themselves through their unbelief and their gainsaying of God, insisting that if what God said was true they'd have all seen it by now and it would be upon them all already...

Again, all of that stuff given to them was from God's covenant with Abraham and God relates to them what life is like under the Blessing of the Lord vs what is like under the curse. WHO gave the tithes by the way? Was it a national tithe or did each individual come and bring their tithes? And when God is rebuking the PEOPLE in verse 8 of Malachi 3, He says it is the men who are doing it, even the entire nation (meaning the priests are included) and then they say, how are WE robbing You? If God wanted to correct them and say, "I did not say you individuals, I meant you Israel as a nation only" He would have, yet He does not and leaves it as INDIVIDUALS.
The individuals of the nation of God's people make up the nation...What was going to happen to Abraham as a result of the everlasting covenant (notice God said it was an EVERLASTING covenant - it did not end, it was fulfilled with Jesus' new covenant, and we are back to receiving the Blessing as Abraham did, in faith because of God's grace)? He was going to have children, who would have more children, etc, and even though they comprised a nation of people they were blessed individually through the covenant. How was Jesus blessed? If HE was blessed, and now you are one with Him, a joint heir with Him (Romans 8:17), and you ARE as He IS NOW in THIS WORLD (1 John 4:17) - then...YOU ARE BLESSED, even apart from everything else I've already explained, you must see this. Is Jesus blessed? Then SO ARE YOU, or the Word of God is wrong (and that obviously is not an option).

We are warned to not miss out on God's good, acceptable and perfect will (Romans 12 - why doesn't He just say will, why does He add good and acceptable and perfect - and why does He say YOU prove it (like Joshua 1:8)?) like they did, because even when they got into the Promised Land, only JUDAH did what God's perfect will was - to possess everything there and have much more than enough. They could have been like the other unbelieving tribes of God's people that Joshua had to go rebuke over their refusal to go possess it once within it.

It is the same today, if you want to take God at His Word and receive all that He's promised to you, you may, and He is glad to do it. OR you can believe Satan's lies about disqualifying you from everything and only getting things when you get to Heaven...it's up to you, because as Romans 12 says, YOU will prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God, not Him (in other words, IT'S NOT AUTOMATIC). Will you believe God's Word or man's vain philosophies and traditions and opinions that SPOIL you (Colossians 2:8)?

Good post Rodain...much food for thought for many...

 

[Major]

Thank you Mitspa for you kind and loving reply to a potentially volatile subject, I too am in the same situation as you, the sheep would rather have their ears tickled by ambitious and greedy men rather than listen to the truth.

It's been some time now, but I read here on the internet about Hagin's calling his proteges to him and asking them to stop abusing and teaching the prosperity doctrine, and that came to me from a news letter from either the Berean Call or Search the Scriptures, ...that is what I was making a reference to.

Lord bless you brother,

Gene

IT was the Berean Call as I received the same newsletter.

 

[Major]

I will put this out there for serious consideration; if, as some insist, the promises to Israel are only to the nation of Israel, then where did those promises come from? WHY did God help Israel and give them Moses and take them out of Egypt in the first place and lead them to Canaan?
The answer of course is that He did it to fulfill His everlasting covenant with Abraham. The covenant with Israel (which is not the covenant He wanted to make, but was a concession to their pride (He said I am poised to make you a nation of Kings of Priests, and they said, whatever you have for us to do, we are well-able to do it, so they removed themselves from the covenant of grace and forced God to make a covenant of Law with them so they could earn the blessing rather than get it like they had been, through grace (favor)) is the fulfillment of the covenant with Abraham and is therefore a continuation of the original covenant with Abraham.
Then when Jesus comes, He is the final fulfillment of both covenants, though it started with Abraham.
God did not bless the "nation" of Abraham, He blessed HIM. Just as He did not bless the nation of Isaac, but blessed Isaac himself.
Jacob/Israel was blessed HIMSELF, and so were all his seed. It was by birth, if you were of the bloodline of Abraham, you had the blessing of the Lord on you.
Then people say foolish things like, well if the Blessing makes you rich, why isn't EVERY Believer rich, since that's God's perfect will?

Then we have to ask since God's perfect will is that EVERONE knows Him and receives Christ, why isn't EVERYONE saved yet? That's God's will after all - He is not willing that ANY should perish. Yet we know that we have billions of earthlings who do NOT know God or Jesus. How is this possible if God's will is for ALL mankind to come to Christ.....hmmm....?
If God's perfect will is that no one is ever abused/hurt/harmed, etc, then how is it that people suffer these things...and "good" people too...even Christians...? For God's perfect will is Heaven, where no one is ever harmed, just like in Eden...yet how can it be so...?
Is is possible that just because something is God's will, it doesn't mean that it is AUTOMATIC?

God's will is that all be saved, yet that is not automatic, it took us acting in faith and receiving what He had already done and the Word became salvation to us...
In the same way, God's people the Israelites were in Egypt, in God's will in that they were His people through the covenant with Abraham. Yet they suffered slavery and did not even own their own bodies and never had enough (and yet it took over 400 years until SOMEONE called out in faith to God...astounding!).
Then they are brought out with miracles and into the wilderness where they have just enough, and God does fabulous things on this short journey, yet all the while He is letting them know it is not His perfect will, but that He has a place He calls the Promised Land (promised to who? ABRAHAM) which is Canaan the land of abundance, of always more than enough.
Then they come to Canaan, and they give an evil unbelieving report of what God has called good and they cannot enter because of unbelief. Was that God's will that they wander for 40 years while the unbelieving people of God's people died off? He said it wasn't.
Yet their unbelief is recorded for us it says in 1 Cor 10 to serve as an example for us that we may not miss out on God's perfect will as they did.
See also Hebrews 3 and 4 for this too (and note that God says the GOSPEL was preached unto them - the Blessing).

God's will was that MOSES go into the Promised Land, but Joshua did it instead because Moses disqualified himself. God's will was that the journey to the Promised Land took about a week or so, but the people disqualified themselves through their unbelief and their gainsaying of God, insisting that if what God said was true they'd have all seen it by now and it would be upon them all already...

Again, all of that stuff given to them was from God's covenant with Abraham and God relates to them what life is like under the Blessing of the Lord vs what is like under the curse. WHO gave the tithes by the way? Was it a national tithe or did each individual come and bring their tithes? And when God is rebuking the PEOPLE in verse 8 of Malachi 3, He says it is the men who are doing it, even the entire nation (meaning the priests are included) and then they say, how are WE robbing You? If God wanted to correct them and say, "I did not say you individuals, I meant you Israel as a nation only" He would have, yet He does not and leaves it as INDIVIDUALS.
The individuals of the nation of God's people make up the nation...What was going to happen to Abraham as a result of the everlasting covenant (notice God said it was an EVERLASTING covenant - it did not end, it was fulfilled with Jesus' new covenant, and we are back to receiving the Blessing as Abraham did, in faith because of God's grace)? He was going to have children, who would have more children, etc, and even though they comprised a nation of people they were blessed individually through the covenant. How was Jesus blessed? If HE was blessed, and now you are one with Him, a joint heir with Him (Romans 8:17), and you ARE as He IS NOW in THIS WORLD (1 John 4:17) - then...YOU ARE BLESSED, even apart from everything else I've already explained, you must see this. Is Jesus blessed? Then SO ARE YOU, or the Word of God is wrong (and that obviously is not an option).

We are warned to not miss out on God's good, acceptable and perfect will (Romans 12 - why doesn't He just say will, why does He add good and acceptable and perfect - and why does He say YOU prove it (like Joshua 1:8)?) like they did, because even when they got into the Promised Land, only JUDAH did what God's perfect will was - to possess everything there and have much more than enough. They could have been like the other unbelieving tribes of God's people that Joshua had to go rebuke over their refusal to go possess it once within it.

It is the same today, if you want to take God at His Word and receive all that He's promised to you, you may, and He is glad to do it. OR you can believe Satan's lies about disqualifying you from everything and only getting things when you get to Heaven...it's up to you, because as Romans 12 says, YOU will prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God, not Him (in other words, IT'S NOT AUTOMATIC). Will you believe God's Word or man's vain philosophies and traditions and opinions that SPOIL you (Colossians 2:8)?

NOPE! The promises made to Abraham will be fulfilled in due time but the church will not be the receiver of those promises. It will be the nation of Israel.

The One whom the Bible 203 times calls “the God of Israel” has sworn by an everlasting covenant that Israel (three times called the “apple” of His eye–Dt 32:10; Lam 3:18; Zec 2:8) will never cease to exist as a nation: “Therefore fear thou not...O Israel...though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I...will not leave thee altogether unpunished” (Jer 30:10,11). “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city [Jerusalem] shall be built...it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever” (Jer 31:38-40). The language could not be clearer here and throughout God’s Holy Word.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Yes, point 4 is hard to get a grip on in the context of 'replacement' theology....but there it is.
As for myself, I believe to proffer it as a support for the idea of replacement of a people is rather lame, as are all the arguments.
I suppose the thinking runs along the line that because the old covenant (of which circumcision is a part) has been replaced, those (the Jews), who still practice it are replaced as well.
Jesus paid an incredibly high price to redeem/purchase men for God::not to 'trade up'
Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,
We have this song in our hearts and we can not or should not ever allow replacement of it with any other song.

_________________________________________________________

I have witnessed to a few men who are now in the Ministry of the Lord: which leads me to believe that I may be surpassed; but
I can never be replaced!

 

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

NOPE! The promises made to Abraham will be fulfilled in due time but the church will not be the receiver of those promises. It will be the nation of Israel.

The One whom the Bible 203 times calls “the God of Israel” has sworn by an everlasting covenant that Israel (three times called the “apple” of His eye–Dt 32:10; Lam 3:18; Zec 2:8) will never cease to exist as a nation: “Therefore fear thou not...O Israel...though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I...will not leave thee altogether unpunished” (Jer 30:10,11). “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city [Jerusalem] shall be built...it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever” (Jer 31:38-40). The language could not be clearer here and throughout God’s Holy Word.

I don't know where you think I said Israel ever ceased to exist - perhaps you confused me with someone else...

What IS clear, is that God made the first everlasting covenant with Abraham. Due to how a blood covenant works (you should read what it is and how it works, check out EW Kenyon's Blood Covenant or Kenneth Copeland's Covenant Made By Blood), He asked Abraham to offer Isaac as a sacrifice so that He could do the same with Jesus. God wanted to have His people walk in the fullness of the Blessing as His kings and priests but they rejected it so He had to get the Blessing to them through the Law since they said they could earn His Blessing. So Jesus comes as the fulfillment of Abraham's covenant with God (keep in mind the only reason God makes a covenant with Abraham's descendants is because of the covenant with Abraham...again, individuals). God said the whole world would be BLESSED through Abraham's seed.
The Scriptures say that whosoever is CHRIST'S is Abraham's seed now in Galatians 3. The Blessing has come to the whole world because of Jesus who got us the Blessing of Abraham as it is written in Galatians 3:13-14. These Scriptures are quite clear. Connect the dots.
Conversely, find a Scripture that says that only the nation of Israel gets the Blessing and that Jesus doesn't have it or is not blessed (because anyone IN Christ has the Blessing just as He does, 1 John 4:17 among others).

 

[JustPassingThru]

No giants, the demons have all been defeated, what plagues mankind is their sin and false doctrine.

He was speaking figuratively though there are still malevolent spirits effecting unbelievers (2 Corinthians 4:4 stated after the resurrection says, "...the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.") It is we who faithe that have been set free.

I believe this only applies to those who would faithe...

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver ( to snatch away, rescue, save) them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
IMO those still who live for self in fear of death, are still subject to this bondage...what do you think?

Paul was speaking figuratively???

Are you saying when Jesus hung on the Cross and exclaimed, "It is finished," that He was only speaking figuratively?

The malevolent spirits are masquerading as angels of light 2 Cor 11:15, teaching false doctrine, isn't that what I said? Jesus said men won't come to the light because their deeds are evil and they love (agape) the darkness John 3:19, the demons aren't keeping mankind from coming to the Light, but rather man's love of his sin.

IMO those still who live for self in fear of death, are still subject to this bondage...what do you think?

What do I think? Personally I believe what Paul said, mankind is dead in their trespasses and sins Eph 2:1, and for me dead men don't see, hear, smell, feel or think about True spiritual matters, man was created to worship so until the Divine fiat. "Let there be Light," shines forth in man's dark, dead spirit to awaken him out of his slumber of death he will create his own god in his own image to worship. The bondage is in creating his own god in his own image, it always includes works of some sort, hence man never has assurance that he has done enough works, that's the bondage, he becomes a slave to his god, afraid of death because he is never certain about eternity, ...aren't you glad we serve a wonderful, loving Heavenly Father that considers us as His friends, His brothers, His Bride, spotless, without blemish, pure, white as the snow. ....... ....Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Blessings,

Gene

 

[JustPassingThru]

Hello Gene, I believe what the Word says, and because of the Covenant that I am in with the Father through Jesus I have access to whatever He has agreed to do/give/supply through that Covenant. If I have a need, then He has already released at the cross whatever the answer is for that need. And yes, I do stand on His Word, just like Jesus did, and I expect the Father to perform His Word, just like He did starting with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and going forward through Jesus, just like all the original Apostles, and then the other Apostles (like Paul, Silas, Barnabas, etc) did.
We have no expectation for anything if it isn't in the Word as a promise. Thankfully, as God has said in Gal 3:29, we have His promises from Abraham going forward, since the only reason God did anything for the Israelites was because of His covenant with Abraham and the reason we got Jesus is because of Abraham (God asking Abraham to sacrifice Isaac released God to sacrifice Jesus for us, according to how a blood covenant works).

So what you are saying is God has to have one of His creation do something before He can be released to do a work, i.e. send Jesus?

Released from what?

Who or what is holding God in bondage that He needs to be released?

Yes, the story of Abraham's intention to sacrifice Issac is an illustration of what the Father would do to His own Son on Mt. Moriah, but the lesson to be learned from this story is, "God will provide Himself (a Lamb) for the burnt offering," ...it was a test Gen 22:1 to see if Abraham loved God more than his son and had nothing to do with the Abrahamic covenant of Gen 12:1-3 to leave Ur of the Chaldean, to make him a great nation that all of the other nations would be blessed and to bless those that blessed him and to curse those that would curse him, ...following the test of Issac God blessed Abraham Gen 22:17, 18, ...it's a blessing, not a Covenant. .

Blessings,

Gene

 

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

Yes, God has "bound" Himself by His Word. He has put Himself under it and has agreed in His sovereignty not to violate it (or else He'd be lying and we know He is not a man that He should lie (Numbers 23:6)). He's told us what He would do as a result of the Covenants of promise (see Ephesians 2) and won't go against them or refuse them.

Most Christians would scoff and say, "God can do anything He wants to do, He doesn't need us at all! If it's God's will it'll just happen!" Brethren, those are lies from the Devil. Talk to Jesus about that, for HE could do no mighty works among His own people save to lay His hands on a few sick people and heal them, and what was the reason why not? BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF. So God WANTED to do mighty miracles and works there among them, BUT THEY WOULD NOT LET HIM BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF.
God's will is also that ALL be saved, and that His people would have gone into Canaan instead of getting stuck and dying off in the desert for 40 years, and that there would not have been the Covenant of the Law...but in every case, it was mankind's unbelief that stopped Him from doing what He wanted. If man had yielded to His will, things would have been different in each case.

God has said in the Psalms, Psalm 89:34, My covenant will I not break, nor will I alter the Word that is gone out of My lips. In other words, God says what I have said I will do, I will do and what I have said, I mean, or else I would have used other words, I'm not a man that I cannot communicate clearly what I want.
He has also said in the Psalms, (I have to find it again) that God has placed Himself under the authority of His Word. God's Word is absolute and it is life.
Psalm 115:16 says He has given US the Earth - there are a great many things in our control. Otherwise why is Jesus praying for God's will to be done in it's entirety on the Earth if it's already being done? Why is He saying that there are 2 separate wills going on, one in Heaven and one in Earth. God is not in control down here - in Heaven He is in complete control, but here He has partnered with us to get things done. Or else Jesus is a liar.
Look at Deut 30:11-15 and Romans 10:6-10. They say the same thing, and combine it with Joshua 1:8, Deut 30:19-20. God's Word is life to us. We don't have any excuse, God has given us His Word and if we want to believe it and walk in it, we'll have the promises.

Now as for a blood covenant, look at Genesis 15:6-11 and 17-21.
A blood covenant was made between Abraham and the Lord God.
In a blood covenant (it is so deep and huge I will keep this brief), each side receives the benefits of the other. And the weaker side gets all the benefits of the stronger and becomes equal with them. The sides would exchange their coats, their personal weapons, etc and then they would walk through the halves and put a cut into their wrists and typically put some saltpeter or something similar that would cause the scar to become black so that they would see it all the time and remember their covenant. And the only way out was to die. And the enemies of one became the enemies of the other, and you see Jesus say if you knock, it'll be opened, etc - that is the covenant expectancy and the covenant love.
Look at 2 Sam 9 with David treating Meph the way he does and doing for him what he does all because of the covenant that David made with Jonathan. The Hebrew word is "hesed" for this covenant love and in the Greek it's agappe, and it's often translated in English into loving kindness, or tenderness, or tenderloving kindness or charity, that unreasonable kind of love, but it's all of that and more, and God doesn't just have this love, He IS this kind of covenant love, this hesed/agappe.
The blood covenant is everything, and the reason why Abraham was asked to sacrifice Isaac is so that He could do it with Jesus (He did not need to "test" Abraham - He's God, He already knows what Abraham will choose...God does not test us anyway, the Devil comes to try to do all that stuff to us), because that's part of how a covenant works. Do the research for yourself if you don't want to accept what I am saying here already having done the research. It will change how you look at God and what you expect Him to do in your life, and let me tell you from experience - it's GOOD. HE is good.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Yes, God has "bound" Himself by His Word. He has put Himself under it and has agreed in His sovereignty not to violate it (or else He'd be lying and we know He is not a man that He should lie (Numbers 23:6)). He's told us what He would do as a result of the Covenants of promise (see Ephesians 2) and won't go against them or refuse them.
Most Christians would scoff and say, "God can do anything He wants to do, He doesn't need us at all! If it's God's will it'll just happen!" Brethren, those are lies from the Devil. Talk to Jesus about that, for HE could do no mighty works among His own people save to lay His hands on a few sick people and heal them, and what was the reason why not? BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF. So God WANTED to do mighty miracles and works there among them, BUT THEY WOULD NOT LET HIM BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF.
God's will is also that ALL be saved, and that His people would have gone into Canaan instead of getting stuck and dying off in the desert for 40 years, and that there would not have been the Covenant of the Law...but in every case, it was mankind's unbelief that stopped Him from doing what He wanted. If man had yielded to His will, things would have been different in each case.
God has said in the Psalms, Psalm 89:34, My covenant will I not break, nor will I alter the Word that is gone out of My lips. In other words, God says what I have said I will do, I will do and what I have said, I mean, or else I would have used other words, I'm not a man that I cannot communicate clearly what I want.
He has also said in the Psalms, (I have to find it again) that God has placed Himself under the authority of His Word. God's Word is absolute and it is life.
Psalm 115:16 says He has given US the Earth - there are a great many things in our control. Otherwise why is Jesus praying for God's will to be done in it's entirety on the Earth if it's already being done? Why is He saying that there are 2 separate wills going on, one in Heaven and one in Earth. God is not in control down here - in Heaven He is in complete control, but here He has partnered with us to get things done. Or else Jesus is a liar.
Look at Deut 30:11-15 and Romans 10:6-10. They say the same thing, and combine it with Joshua 1:8, Deut 30:19-20. God's Word is life to us. We don't have any excuse, God has given us His Word and if we want to believe it and walk in it, we'll have the promises.
Now as for a blood covenant, look at Genesis 15:6-11 and 17-21.
A blood covenant was made between Abraham and the Lord God.
In a blood covenant (it is so deep and huge I will keep this brief), each side receives the benefits of the other. And the weaker side gets all the benefits of the stronger and becomes equal with them. The sides would exchange their coats, their personal weapons, etc and then they would walk through the halves and put a cut into their wrists and typically put some saltpeter or something similar that would cause the scar to become black so that they would see it all the time and remember their covenant. And the only way out was to die. And the enemies of one became the enemies of the other, and you see Jesus say if you knock, it'll be opened, etc - that is the covenant expectancy and the covenant love.
Look at 2 Sam 9 with David treating Meph the way he does and doing for him what he does all because of the covenant that David made with Jonathan. The Hebrew word is "hesed" for this covenant love and in the Greek it's agappe, and it's often translated in English into loving kindness, or tenderness, or tenderloving kindness or charity, that unreasonable kind of love, but it's all of that and more, and God doesn't just have this love, He IS this kind of covenant love, this hesed/agappe.
The blood covenant is everything, and the reason why Abraham was asked to sacrifice Isaac is so that He could do it with Jesus (He did not need to "test" Abraham - He's God, He already knows what Abraham will choose...God does not test us anyway, the Devil comes to try to do all that stuff to us), because that's part of how a covenant works. Do the research for yourself if you don't want to accept what I am saying here already having done the research. It will change how you look at God and what you expect Him to do in your life, and let me tell you from experience - it's GOOD. HE is good.

_______________________________________________________

Amen. God has promised by His NAME: and if He does not, or can not, fullfill His promise, then His NAME cannot be
Je-hovah; that is, He cannot be God. God has spoken, and said that His word will not come back void: and He has now
promised to save by His NAME: ".For there is none other NAME under heaven, given among men, in which we must
be daved...and has given him a NAME that is above every name that is named."

 

[JustPassingThru]

Rodain, friend, you forgot a Covenant, a very important Covenant for us today, it's the New Covenant, the Covenant that assures and comforts me I don't need any man to teach me because the Holy Spirit will teach me all things, ...sorry, I don't receive your interpretation of the Covenants, many years ago the Holy Spirit taught me the correct sense and interpretation of the Covenants, I'll chose to go with Him, 'cuz He's never steered me wrong.

Blessings,

Gene

 

[JustPassingThru]

Mario, brother, you need to do some serious Bible Study before you comment, Jehovah is not the name of God, the name Jehovah, for God, came about in the early 10th century when the vowel sounds for Adonai were added to the Hebrew name for God YHWH, if you look at a Hebrew alphabet you will see there is not a "J" in the Hebrew language, the "Y" is used like we would use the "J" in English, if you want to have an idea as to the actual name of God just say, Hallelujah, we replace the J with an Y sound, in the Hebrew hâlal = praise + yâhh, so if you are putting so much emphasis on His name, don't you think it's a good idea to have the correct name?

Also, His name is wonderful and I'm glad to know it and know Him by name, but here's something else to chew on concerning His name,

I will worship toward Your holy temple, and praise Your name for Your loving-kindness and for Your truth's sake; for You have magnified Your Word above all Your name. Psa 138:2

Blessings brother,

Gene

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Mario, brother, you need to do some serious Bible Study before you comment, Jehovah is not the name of God, the name Jehovah, for God, came about in the early 10th century when the vowel sounds for Adonai were added to the Hebrew name for God YHWH, if you look at a Hebrew alphabet you will see there is not a "J" in the Hebrew language, the "Y" is used like we would use the "J" in English, if you want to have an idea as to the actual name of God just say, Hallelujah, we replace the J with an Y sound, in the Hebrew hâlal = praise + yâhh, so if you are putting so much emphasis on His name, don't you think it's a good idea to have the correct name?
Also, His name is wonderful and I'm glad to know it and know Him by name, but here's something else to chew on concerning His name,
I will worship toward Your holy temple, and praise Your name for Your loving-kindness and for Your truth's sake; for You have magnified Your Word above all Your name. Psa 138:2
Blessings brother, Gene

_________________________________________________

Thank you for that verse in Psalm 138:2 _ it is disclosing that before His NAME, the "...word of His power..." was manifest.
It was spoken, and it is what formed (created) everything we see, and don't see. So yes, it is magnified above the NAME, because it was before the NAME. However, that does not detract from the importance of the NAME.

"And you shall call His NAME wonderful, counselor..." etc. So are you saying that the Lord's NAME is wonderful, or that that
is an attribute we shall find in His NAME? Oh! Should all English speaking people use the Lord's Hebrew NAME (YHWH) because we should not try to pronounce His NAME, as did the Jews?

God only has one NAME "...in which we must be saved...". It is a name that is greater than YHWH...greater in this respect:
it is the NAME in which all of God's promises are fullfilled. It is the name: Jesus! Or shall we write it, Yeh-shua? Are we allowed to pronounce it?
YHWH is that name (of promise) that was revealed to Moses. Or why do you believe that the Lord God revealed it to Moses?
Just so He could have a name, like His creation? Or do you believe, like today's modernists, that God has many names?
Beloved, walk holy before the Lord.

 

[Brother Paul]

Paul was speaking figuratively???

Are you saying when Jesus hung on the Cross and exclaimed, "It is finished," that He was only speaking figuratively?

The malevolent spirits are masquerading as angels of light 2 Cor 11:15, teaching false doctrine, isn't that what I said? Jesus said men won't come to the light because their deeds are evil and they love (agape) the darkness John 3:19, the demons aren't keeping mankind from coming to the Light, but rather man's love of his sin.

No of course not! The poster who said giants still exist drew a rebuttal. It was that I was responding to. You are absolutely correct here.

Also Israel was never "replaced" (God still has them as part of His eschatological plan) only "Judaism" was fulfilled in Christ and many of the Jewish people themselves missed that (and still do). However. we would not exist if there had not been an Israel and of course in one sense we ARE spiritual Israel so we mustn't give up on them.

I believe that in Christ, we saved gentiles are instruments that "bring Jacob back" (Jeremiah 31:11-13; Isaiah 49:5-6) at least those of them who would be saved. And we do this in one way as the fullness of the gentiles (the melo ha'Goyim of Genesis 48:19; Hosea 7:8; 8:8) comes into Messiah. Even the salvation of the gentiles (the wild olive branch being grafted in) is part of the re-grafting of lost sheep of the House of Israel (the broken off branch..sown in among the gentiles) back into His Holy Vine (Messiah) along with the natural branch (the saved Spirit born Jewish people). I see Romans as speaking of three groups becoming one in Messiah where others see only two.

In Romans 11:25 I do not think Paul is speaking of a completed pre-determined number of Gentiles, because he uses the exact same Greek phrasing that the LXX translators used for Genesis 49:19. He is speaking of the children of Joseph (the House or Kingdom of Israel scattered and acculturated by the Assyrians) which became a multitude of gentiles (goyim). So I still see Israel (not necessarily today's "Nation of Israel") as being something God is powerfully using to bring about the unfolding leading to the parousia or second coming. Even the nation today is a key linchpin God is now using to bring all this to fruition. As for their part (in His sovereign unfolding) we can only watch and pray and continue to show them this Messiah in the Law and the Prophets (the Tanakh, as Christ Himself did on the road to Emmaus).

but that's my $.02

brother Paul

 

[Brother Paul]

_________________________________________________
Thank you for that verse in Psalm 138:2 _ it is disclosing that before His NAME, the "...word of His power..." was manifest.
It was spoken, and it is what formed (created) everything we see, and don't see. So yes, it is magnified above the NAME, because it was before the NAME. However, that does not detract from the importance of the NAME.

"And you shall call His NAME wonderful, counselor..." etc. So are you saying that the Lord's NAME is wonderful, or that that
is an attribute we shall find in His NAME? Oh! Should all English speaking people use the Lord's Hebrew NAME (YHWH) because we should not try to pronounce His NAME, as did the Jews?

God only has one NAME "...in which we must be saved...". It is a name that is greater than YHWH...greater in this respect:
it is the NAME in which all of God's promises are fullfilled. It is the name: Jesus! Or shall we write it, Yeh-shua? Are we allowed to pronounce it?
YHWH is that name (of promise) that was revealed to Moses. Or why do you believe that the Lord God revealed it to Moses?
Just so He could have a name, like His creation? Or do you believe, like today's modernists, that God has many names?
Beloved, walk holy before the Lord.

Yes..."name" often refers to one's attributes, power, authority, presence, etc.,...take for example "wonderful" (Heb. pele' a worker of wonders) was not Messiah "wonderful"? The Zadokite priests of Qumran understood this. For example, Scroll 4Q21 prophetically predicts:

“As for the wonders…when He, that is Messiah comes,then He will heal the sick, resurrect the dead, and to the poor announce glad tidings“ (parentheses mine)

And when John's disciples come to Him to ask if He is the one He replies "...Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see: The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the glad tidings preached to them." This shem (translated "name shall be called") was a key to those of ancient Israel who were anticipating His arrival (based on the counting of weeks of years in Daniel).

So "name" does not always refer to a literal name like Joe or Bob (it is used this way in Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38) but as in the name of the King or in the name of the Law as in that authority and power....the one who comes in that name is as the very presence of that one that source and has full authority and the power to act in that name...now sometimes they are that source or it can be a prince (Son of the Source) or even an appointed representative (like were the Apostles and in a sense we also)..

 

[Mitspa]

I enjoy the conversation on the Name of God, I agree with JPT-Gene that YHWH is not pronounced as many do. I would just add the thought that all of the Old Testaments names of God where well known in the Lords earthly walk. When He said He came to reveal the Fathers name, He was not speaking of any of these OT names. He was speaking a mystery that would be revealed to the Church, though the Spirit of God. Many of you know the Name but because it is so childlike and it seems to have little value in a religious discussion, it has not filled your heart with joy, as it should. Blessings and enjoy reading you-alls views and understandings.

 

[JustPassingThru]

[QUOTENo of course not! The poster who said giants still exist drew a rebuttal. It was that I was responding to. You are absolutely correct here.][/QUOTE]

Sorry bro for the mistake, there is so much heresy being presented in this thread I didn't keep the players straight, ...I apologize.

Please be patient with me, but could you explain your meaning of spiritual Israel?

Also, I don't understand why or how we saved Gentiles will do anything to bring Israel back, I read your two verses, to me, in Jeremiah 13:11 the stronger than Israel is the same person stronger than us, and that is a reference to the devil, in Isaiah 49:5 6, to me that is a clearly Messianic, personally, I believe what Paul wrote, there is a veil over the Scriptures today until the last Gentile is brought into the Kingdom, after that happens, God will remove that veil so that once again Israel will be able to read and understand their Scriptures about their Messiah and turn to Jesus.

I see the fulness of the Gentiles being a period of time from 70 AD when the Roman General Titus, with his legions, razed the city of Jerusalem and it was not retaken from the hands of the Gentiles again by the Jews until June 7, 1967, when Lt. General Mordechai (Motta) Gu, with his IDF paratroopers announced over his radio, "The Temple Mount is in our hands! I repeat, the Temple Mount is in our hands!” immediately on hearing the news, General Rabbi Shlomo Goren, chief chaplain of the IDF, sounded the Shofar at the Western Wall to signify its liberation, ...fulfilling the prophecy Jesus gave us in Luke 21:24, ...on a side note, in His grace Father did not close the door to the Gentiles on that day, we're running on overtime, 'cuz if He had of I wouldn't be sitting here talking with you, and how many more reading this has He brought into His Kingdom since June 7, 1967?

Thank you and praise you Jesus for your unending, limitless mercy and grace, ...King of Kings and Lord of Lords, to you alone belongs all of the power, glory and authority for ever and for ever!!!

Blessings to you and your family bro,

Gene

 

[JustPassingThru]

I enjoy the conversation on the Name of God, I agree with JPT-Gene that YHWH is not pronounced as many do. I would just add the thought that all of the Old Testaments names of God where well known in the Lords earthly walk. When He said He came to reveal the Fathers name, He was not speaking of any of these OT names. He was speaking a mystery that would be revealed to the Church, though the Spirit of God. Many of you know the Name but because it is so childlike and it seems to have little value in a religious discussion, it has not filled your heart with joy, as it should. Blessings and enjoy reading you-alls views and understandings.

Ahhh Mitspa, don't leave us hanging like that!

Let's see, it's not Emmanuel, that's Old Testament, nor Joshua, that is too, Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace, all Old Testament, Lion of the Tribe of Judah, no that's a description, hmmmmmmm......................, I GOT IT!!!!

ABBA, or more correctly in English, ...dada!

His name is Yahweh
The Lord is one
His name is Yahweh
The Lord is one
Alpha & Omega
Beginning & The End
The Word who reigns forever
Yahweh, Redeemer, Friend

That's my dada.

Thank you Mitspa for this ray of Sonshine on this Sunday morning,

Blessings,

Gene

 

[JustPassingThru]

You know folks, it's Sunday morning here in Tahiti, the sun is shining, gentle Trade-winds are blowing and the ambient is in the low '80s, I'm blessed, ...Mitspa has presented to us a profound Truth that yes we often forget, Jesus told us that unless we are converted and become as little children.....,

Father has blessed my bride and myself with a ministry with children, He has given her her voice and to me the ability to play the piano, when were worship together with the Praise Songs we both know it's good and fulfilling, but not any more than when we sing this simple diddy with the children,

Jesus loves me this I know,
for the Bible tells me so,
little ones to Him belong,
they are weak, but he is strong,

Yes, Jesus loves me,
Yes, Jesus loves me,
Yes, Jesus loves me,
The Bible tells me so.

This thing we have is real and it really is that simple, ...so simple a child can understand.

May the Lord richly bless you this day as He has us my brothers and sisters in Christ,

Gene and Tania