Question About Former Church

JustPassingThru said:
Jacob and Israel.
The signification of the name Jacob is dirty rotten deceiver and scoundrel.
The signification of Israel is ruled by God.
These two names are used to show when Jacob was walking in the flesh, hence he is refereed to as Jacob, when he was walking in the spirit he is refereed to as Israel. When the nation of Israel was walking in the flesh they are referred to as Jacob, when they are walking in the Spirit they are referred to as Israel, also, when we who are born again are walking in the flesh we are Jacobs, when we are walking in the spirit we are Israels, just look at the stories when Jacob was called Jacob and we can see our flesh rearing it's ugly head, when we are walking in the spirit we can see the characteristics of Israel in our lives.
And while we are talking about Jacob, when Joesph presented his two sons Manasseh and Ephraim to his father, Jacob claimed them as his sons, making these two gentile boys a part of Israel, from that we can understand the symbolism Paul was teaching about we, the Church, being grafted into the stump.
Blessings, Gene
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Jacob: means supplanter; he supplanted (took the place of) his brother Esau, who was the actual first-born, and to whom belonged the promise of the first-born: the double blessing.
Israel: prevailed with God; name given to Jacob after he wrestled with the "iysh", who also blessed him.

Very good poast, Beloved.
 
Yeah bro, he was named supplanter because of his action at birth, read the story of his life, was he not a dirty rotten deceiving scoundrel? Names in the Old Testament are keys that unlock the Word for us, if we insert the meaning of the name into the situation it well give us insight, take the well known story of David and Goliath, David knew from the names mentioned where the Philistines were camped and the army of Israel (remember, governed by God) were camped that Goliath was already judged by God, David believed in faith (and faith comes from hearing and hearing from the Word of God), that God would give him the victory and not only over Goliath, ...we read he chose five smooth stones, but the four brothers of Goliath also.

Blessings,

Gene
 
I have copied and pasted your last two posts, Beloved. I will take time and read them carefully: although I must say it seems
I will not agree with everything.
I can agree with Eph 2:8-10; and with what Paul called the dispensation of grace.
Questions: what are the "cults" you to which you refer?
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My dear brother, it's not about agreeing with me, it's receiving the Truth of the New Covenant Jer 31:31-4 and allowing the Holy Spirit to teach you, there are not many truths, there is only one Truth, Jesus said He was the Truth John 14:6 and He said when the Comforter comes He will teach us everything He (Jesus ) said John 14:26, Paul explains to us that we have the witness of the Holy Spirit inside of us Heb 10:15, John reiterates the same thing when he teaches the Unction inside of us will teach us all things 1 John 2:27, what does that mean, when we hear a teaching from the Holy Spirit through the operation of the gift of teaching in the church the Holy Spirit inside of us (the Witness) will comfort our hearts in saying, "it's true, it's true," notice we will be (1) comforted by the Comforter, and, John the Baptist said I have joy because I have heard His voice John 3:29, our (2) joy will be fulfilled because we have heard His voice, ...let everything be established by two witnesses. On the other hand, if it's not from the Holy Spirit then He will witness to our spirits that it's not from Him and hence not true, in place of comfort and joy there will be a check in our hearts and confusion in our minds.

Now here's the problem, it's what we have already learned, Jesus said be careful of what you listen to Mark 4:24, 25*, so if we have been deceived and allowed false teaching to enter in then because of the pride in our old man we don't want to admit we are wrong, ...it's hard to unlearn something we have already learned, especially if we have already repeated it.

* Here is a interpretation that might help to explain more clearly what Jesus was saying.

He went on to say, "Pay attention to what you're listening to! Knowledge will be measured out to you by the measure of attention you give. This is the way knowledge increases. Those who understand these mysteries will be given more knowledge. However, some people don't understand these mysteries. Even what they understand will be taken away from them." Mark 4:24, 25


A "cult" is defined by it's teaching.

1. A cult will deny the Deity of Jesus Christ John 1:1.
2. A cult will present another gospel Gal 1:6-9.
3. A cult will teach there are works necessary to obtain salvation contrary to Eph 2:8, 9.
4. A cult will teach that all roads lead to God, ...ecumenism as it's presently called has infiltrated and is embraced in the church today.

Remember the words of our Lord,

Go in through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there are who go in through it. Because narrow is the gate and constricted is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matt 7:13, 14

Strive to enter in at the narrow gate. For I say to you, many will seek to enter in and shall not be able. Luke 13:24

Bro, I'll pass on to you what I was taught,... be a Berean, Acts 17:11, that is, prayerfully search the Scriptures daily to see if what you are hearing is true, is there the witness of the Holy Spirit, also, there is only one Truth, if what we believe is contradicted by just one Scripture then what we believe is wrong, ...there is only one Truth.

Nice talking to you,

Blessings,

Gene
 
Beloved, what many believers cannot understand is that there is a difference between Jacob and Israel (as opposed to Israel and the Church). The promise was through Jacob; for he was of the lineage from where the Lord Jesus was born; but the blessing is in Israel, for he dared to want to know the NAME of the ONE with whom he wrestled (Gen. 32:29)
Beloved, the blessing of the Lord is for all who call (invoke) His NAME. Have we not understood? "For whosoever shall call on the NAME of the Lord shall be saved." The promise came and was fullfilled in the birth of Jesus Christ; the blessing was fullfilled on the Day of Pentecost, after the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. The promise and the blessing have come together
in the Church through His NAME![/quote]

This is incorrect my brother.
The promise of the Spirit, as referenced in Galatians 3:14 is defined in Romans 4, where it is written that the promise was that Abraham would be the heir of all things. (which is why we are joint-heirs with Jesus now through the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant in Christ).
The Blessing of the Lord did not come on Jacob when he wrestled and prevailed, it was actually his by birth, for all in Abraham's lineage had it on them by birth, according to the covenant. The mark of the covenant was the circumcision (I would recommend an excellent series by Kenneth Copeland called Covenant Made By Blood, or EW Kenyon's Blood Covenant book).
The Blessing of Abraham in Galatians 3:14 is the Blessing of the Lord (Proverbs 10:22) which is the same as the original blessing on Adam and Eve (Genesis 1:28). Then look at how God blessed Abraham (in other words, what the result was) (Genesis 24:35, Genesis 13:2, 12:3).
Read Hebrews 4 and see that the GOSPEL was preached unto to the Israelites in the wilderness, and that God says He preached the Gospel unto Abraham beforehand in Galatians 3. Most Christians think that the Gospel is Jesus being the forgiveness of their sins on the cross. Well that is true, but it is only 1 part of it - the rest is that it translated you OUT of the curse and the kingdom of darkness and translated you INTO the Kingdom of God's dear Son and under the Blessing of the Lord/Abraham (Col 1:13).
It is how Jesus did everything He did - He walked in the fullness of the blessing of Abraham.
Paul said in Romans 15:29 that he was coming in the FULLNESS of the blessing of the Gospel of Christ.
If it the Gospel is merely the forgiveness of sins, then how can Paul come in the fullness of it? You are either forgiven or you are not, there are no degrees of forgiveness.
The Blessing is EVERYTHING. And Jesus got it back for us.
It's why there were no miracles in the Garden of Eden - they didn't need them - they had the Blessing of the Lord.
It's why there are no miracles in Canaan - they have the Blessing of the Lord.
It's why there won't be any miracles in Heaven - we will have the fullness of the Blessing of the Lord, there will be no need of miracles.
The Blessing is your birthright by the shed blood of no less a Person than Jesus Christ the Lord God Himself.
Learn how to walk in it - you need to use your tongue; see Joshua 1:8, Deut 30:19, Prov 18:20-21, etc.
It takes love to work your faith and it takes faith to work the Blessing.
It's why the Jews no matter where they go, they own everything, they have all the money - it's because they taught this daily to their children and expect it and speak it and declare it on everything, everyday, they laid their hands on their children and declared it on them, and so on.
Build your expectation, start declaring Deut 28:1-13 over yourself and into the fabric of your life. Prov 10:22 also, for who can you possibly bless if you can only take care of you?
 
A good book that Scripturally teaches what the Blessing actually is and how to walk in it is "The Blessing of the Lord Maketh Rich" by Kenneth Copeland - it will change your life forever, and the lives of everyone in your line going forward.
 
So then, if I understand your doctrine you believe what the word says and then you chose and use whatever verse that fits your need, is that correct?

Blessings,

Gene
 
TheCurseOfTheRodain said:
Beloved, what many believers cannot understand is that there is a difference between Jacob and Israel (as opposed to Israel and the Church). The promise was through Jacob; for he was of the lineage from where the Lord Jesus was born; but the blessing is in Israel, for he dared to want to know the NAME of the ONE with whom he wrestled ()
Beloved, the blessing of the Lord is for all who call (invoke) His NAME. Have we not understood? "For whosoever shall call on the NAME of the Lord shall be saved." The promise came and was fullfilled in the birth of Jesus Christ; the blessing was fullfilled on the Day of Pentecost, after the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. The promise and the blessing have come together
in the Church through His NAME!
Click to expand...
This is incorrect my brother.
The promise of the Spirit, as referenced in is defined in ; where it is written that the promise was that Abraham would be the heir of all things. (which is why we are joint-heirs with Jesus now through the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant in Christ).

The Blessing of the Lord did not come on Jacob when he wrestled and prevailed, it was actually his by birth, for all in Abraham's lineage had it on them by birth, according to the covenant. The mark of the covenant was the circumcision (I would recommend an excellent series by Kenneth Copeland called Covenant Made By Blood, or EW Kenyon's Blood Covenant book).
The Blessing of Abraham in is the Blessing of the Lord () which is the same as the original blessing on Adam and Eve (). Then look at how God blessed Abraham (in other words, what the result was) (, ; ).
Read and see that the GOSPEL was preached unto to the Israelites in the wilderness, and that God says He preached the Gospel unto Abraham beforehand in . Most Christians think that the Gospel is Jesus being the forgiveness of their sins on the cross. Well that is true, but it is only 1 part of it - the rest is that it translated you OUT of the curse and the kingdom of darkness and translated you INTO the Kingdom of God's dear Son and under the Blessing of the Lord/Abraham ().
It is how Jesus did everything He did - He walked in the fullness of the blessing of Abraham.
Paul said in that he was coming in the FULLNESS of the blessing of the Gospel of Christ.
If it the Gospel is merely the forgiveness of sins, then how can Paul come in the fullness of it? You are either forgiven or you are not, there are no degrees of forgiveness.
The Blessing is EVERYTHING. And Jesus got it back for us.
It's why there were no miracles in the Garden of Eden - they didn't need them - they had the Blessing of the Lord.
It's why there are no miracles in Canaan - they have the Blessing of the Lord.
It's why there won't be any miracles in Heaven - we will have the fullness of the Blessing of the Lord, there will be no need of miracles.
The Blessing is your birthright by the shed blood of no less a Person than Jesus Christ the Lord God Himself.
Learn how to walk in it - you need to use your tongue; see , , , etc.
It takes love to work your faith and it takes faith to work the Blessing.
It's why the Jews no matter where they go, they own everything, they have all the money - it's because they taught this daily to their children and expect it and speak it and declare it on everything, everyday, they laid their hands on their children and declared it on them, and so on.
Build your expectation, start declaring over yourself and into the fabric of your life. also, for who can you possibly bless if you can only take care of you?[/quote]
___________________________________________

Very good scriptures, Beloved. There is a difference between Jacob, the natural man; and Israel, the spiritual man. They
are both the same man, but, we could say, not the same person. Abraham was indeed given a promise, and he believed that promise. Abraham was justified because he believed God's promise: not just believed. If Abraham prospered, which is what I seem to be hearing, it is because the Lord God knew Abraham not only believed, but Abraham would prove his faith by
commanding "...his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord...".
Man was forgiven from the cross, when Jesus cried, "Father forgive them...". But our sins are remitted by the blood in the waters of baptism: when Peter declared, "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Jacob/Israel was not blessed because he was the descendant (son through Isaac) of Abraham; he was blessed when he desired
to know the NAME of the one who changed his name: "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man. But of God." Everything, promise and blessing, is in the NAME: and there is neither promise or blessing without the NAME.
Abraham's blessing was that from him would come a seed and "...that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through
faith." See the connection? We are saved "...by grace through faith...promise of the Spirit through faith." The promise
was also given to his seed (Isaac and Jacob), and confirmed in them: by appearing unto them as God Almighty.
As for the tongue: "...if any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man...But the tongue can no man tame." But
the Holy Spirit came to tame the tongue in man, that we may be perfected.
I believe that my birthright is secure because I was conceived from the Father, and then brought forth "...of the water and of
the Spirit." (Jn. 3:3-5)

Make your paths straight, Beloved.
 
Candelario Mario Villa said:
______________________________________

OK. You are referring to the term "born again". Yes, it is a common teaching. Now everyone who is listening on this forum,
and on this thread in particular, knows that no one has advocated an "abstract teaching" on the born again experience...except maybe them that have an abstract way of thinking.

I agree that no one needs a guru: the Lord has chosen and given us "...some apostles; and some, prophets; and some,
evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of
the body of Christ...'. So what we need to do is match our ideas to those of the Lord's anointed: who are found in the pages of
the scriptures, and not as today's modernists posing as the Lord's anointed. Now if you are gifted in the area of teaching,
as you claim to understand the words of the Spirit, then please teach us: because no man can give what he doesn't have.

Now you are reverting back to the "God told me" argument, which is: if God has not spoken to you, then surely God must not
have spoken to anyone else! Now I'm not so sure that God has not spoken to anyone on this forum: or at least not in an audible voice. To paraphrase the man who was born blind: __ Why herein is a marvelous thing, that you have not heard Him speak to you, but I heard Him speak to me__. Beloved, I know the Lord has spoken to you, and is even now speaking to a multitude: He
is saying: "...come out of her (the confusion), my people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues." Can you hear Him now?
Click to expand...
My friend, not sure what you are asking of me? You have in fact been teaching an "abstract" teaching, that "born-again" does not really mean born-again. You make some reference that god has given you the true understanding, and told me that if I did not believe this new reading of such a clear passage then I should just "ask god". Now clearly you where trying to represent that this understanding did not come from a sincere study of what is written, but some abstract way of reading the truth of scripture. I reject that, and in the most absolute terms. The passage you have tried to change cannot read as you have tried to make it read. It cannot and will be glad to prove it, if I could get a clear understanding of what your trying to make it say? You seem to make all things unclear as to not get nailed down on any point you are trying to affirm. Now my understanding is that "born-again" is really "conceived from above" as god told you?Now I affirm that the passage must read "born-again" and cannot read as you have tried to suggest as god has taught you. For example the word for "born" can only be read as "born" in the verse in question and witness as "born" in the following 4 verses. No Greek translator would attempt to translate a word in one passage and then give the word a different meaning in the next 4 verses. Also in Nicodemus response, we have the Lords words reflected back in the form of a question. "Can a man, enter into his mothers womb" now is that "above" ? and be "born". Not conceived, that would make no sense. If the Lord had said "you must be conceived from above" Nicodemus question would make no sense whatsoever.
Candelario Mario Villa said:
______________________________________

OK. You are referring to the term "born again". Yes, it is a common teaching. Now everyone who is listening on this forum,
and on this thread in particular, knows that no one has advocated an "abstract teaching" on the born again experience...except maybe them that have an abstract way of thinking.

I agree that no one needs a guru: the Lord has chosen and given us "...some apostles; and some, prophets; and some,
evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of
the body of Christ...'. So what we need to do is match our ideas to those of the Lord's anointed: who are found in the pages of
the scriptures, and not as today's modernists posing as the Lord's anointed. Now if you are gifted in the area of teaching,
as you claim to understand the words of the Spirit, then please teach us: because no man can give what he doesn't have.

Now you are reverting back to the "God told me" argument, which is: if God has not spoken to you, then surely God must not
have spoken to anyone else! Now I'm not so sure that God has not spoken to anyone on this forum: or at least not in an audible voice. To paraphrase the man who was born blind: __ Why herein is a marvelous thing, that you have not heard Him speak to you, but I heard Him speak to me__. Beloved, I know the Lord has spoken to you, and is even now speaking to a multitude: He
is saying: "...come out of her (the confusion), my people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues." Can you hear Him now?
Click to expand...
Mr. Villa , one can not teach those who believe they already know. I cannot reason within the scriptures with those who make words mean what they like according to what they "think" god is telling them. If I made a point clear in truth? such as ; 5 times in 5 scriptures, the exact same Greek word is used "born" now what reasonable excuse would one give to change that word to mean different things in these passages? Nicodemus would not have said "can a man enter his mothers womb" and be "born" if the Lord had said "you must be conceived from ABOVE? Now is a mothers womb "above"? No, God did not show or "tell" you these things, He gave us His Word, and it is those flaming swords that guard the way back to the Tree of Life. Only those who handle the Word with honesty, may pass through.
 
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JustPassingThru said:
So then, if I understand your doctrine you believe what the word says and then you chose and use whatever verse that fits your need, is that correct?
Blessings, Gene
Click to expand...
________________________________________

No, it is apparent that you don't understand that I was saved "...by grace through faith..."; not by faith through grace.
I was saved by the ONE who was predestinated to die on the cross, was buried, and rose from the dead. What part of the
Gospel that saves do you think I'm missing?
What do you think is more dangerous: having a mistaken Gospel, or having ta mistaken doctrine?
Walk in the Light, Beloved
 
TheCurseOfTheRodain said:
A good book that Scripturally teaches what the Blessing actually is and how to walk in it is "The Blessing of the Lord Maketh Rich" by Kenneth Copeland - it will change your life forever, and the lives of everyone in your line going forward.
Click to expand...
_____________________________________________

Kenneth Copeland was a disciple of Kenneth Hagin: he (Copeland) remains in the teaching that Hagin taught in the 70's-90's.
Brother Hagin died in the faith, and at his death we shared the same Gospel.
Walk in the Spirit, Beloved.
 
No, it is apparent that you don't understand that I was saved "...by grace through faith..."; not by faith through grace.
I was saved by the ONE who was predestinated to die on the cross, was buried, and rose from the dead. What part of the
Gospel that saves do you think I'm missing?
What do you think is more dangerous: having a mistaken Gospel, or having ta mistaken doctrine?
Walk in the Light, Beloved
Click to expand...

Mario,

I don't have the slightest idea to what you are talking about.

My question was addressed to Rodain, sorry I didn't make that clear

Blessings,

Gene
 
Mitspa said:
My friend, not sure what you are asking of me? You have in fact been teaching an "abstract" teaching, that "born-again" does not really mean born-again. You make some reference that god has given you the true understanding, and told me that if I did not believe this new reading of such a clear passage then I should just "ask god". Now clearly you where trying to represent that this understanding did not come from a sincere study of what is written, but some abstract way of reading the truth of scripture. I reject that, and in the most absolute terms. The passage you have tried to change cannot read as you have tried to make it read. It cannot and will be glad to prove it, if I could get a clear understanding of what your trying to make it say? You seem to make all things unclear as to not get nailed down on any point you are trying to affirm. Now my understanding is that "born-again" is really "conceived from above" as god told you?Now I affirm that the passage must read "born-again" and cannot read as you have tried to suggest as god has taught you. For example the word for "born" can only be read as "born" in the verse in question and witness as "born" in the following 4 verses. No Greek translator would attempt to translate a word in one passage and then give the word a different meaning in the next 4 verses. Also in Nicodemus response, we have the Lords words reflected back in the form of a question. "Can a man, enter into his mothers womb" now is that "above" ? and be "born". Not conceived, that would make no sense. If the Lord had said "you must be conceived from above" Nicodemus question would make no sense whatsoever.

Mr. Villa , one can not teach those who believe they already know. I cannot reason within the scriptures with those who make words mean what they like according to what they "think" god is telling them. If I made a point clear in truth? such as ; 5 times in 5 scriptures, the exact same Greek word is used "born" now what reasonable excuse would one give to change that word to mean different things in these passages? Nicodemus would not have said "can a man enter his mothers womb" and be "born" if the Lord had said "you must be conceived from ABOVE? Now is a mothers womb "above"? No, God did not show or "tell" you these things, He gave us His Word, and it is those flaming swords that guard the way back to the Tree of Life. Only those who handle the Word with honesty, may pass through.
Click to expand...
__________________________________________

Beloved, I am asking nothing of you. What you are saying is that you don't "see" the words begotten from above (born again) in
the Greek [dictionary]? I went back to the inter-linear, and I see them whenever I look! I simply said that a believer is conceived od God by the preaching of the word. Nicodemus did not understand, because he was using the second defimnition
of "born", which is birthed (to come out of the womb). What I am trying to do is read the scriptures in context: otherwise,
Jn. 3:5, either says the same thing and rhe Lord is repeating Himself, or it doesn't mean the same thing, and no one is grasping it.
Nicodemus, like you, also did not understand: that's why he asked if a man can reenter his mother's womb! Jn. 3:3 correlates
with Peter's confession (I covered this before), and the Lord's answer to Peter: "...flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you, but my Father...". In essense, he was asking Nicodemus if he had said those things of himself, or did the Father tell him. What things? Nicodemus said, "We know you are a teacher come from God...". So the question still is, did the Father reveal something to Nicodemus; because, "...except it be given/conceived from above, he cannot see (perceive, discern, understand) the kingdom of God."
Beloved, I am teaching no one: especially those who "already know". If I use a word more than once, I try to make sure I am
following the word in the context of scripture. If it does not mesh with the immediate scripture, than I must ask myself why.
Walk in the Light, Beloved.
 
Kenneth Copeland was a disciple of Kenneth Hagin: he (Copeland) remains in the teaching that Hagin taught in the 70's-90's.
Brother Hagin died in the faith, and at his death we shared the same Gospel.
Walk in the Spirit, Beloved.
Click to expand...
Would that be the same doctrine that Dad Hagin told, Copeland, Osteen, Dollar and the rest of his disciples gathered around his (Hagin) death bed that he had been wrong about the prosperity doctrine he taught?

Blessings,

Gene
 
Candelario Mario Villa said:
__________________________________________

Beloved, I am asking nothing of you. What you are saying is that you don't "see" the words begotten from above (born again) in
the Greek [dictionary]? I went back to the inter-linear, and I see them whenever I look! I simply said that a believer is conceived od God by the preaching of the word. Nicodemus did not understand, because he was using the second defimnition
of "born", which is birthed (to come out of the womb). What I am trying to do is read the scriptures in context: otherwise,
Jn. 3:5, either says the same thing and rhe Lord is repeating Himself, or it doesn't mean the same thing, and no one is grasping it.
Nicodemus, like you, also did not understand: that's why he asked if a man can reenter his mother's womb! Jn. 3:3 correlates
with Peter's confession (I covered this before), and the Lord's answer to Peter: "...flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you, but my Father...". In essense, he was asking Nicodemus if he had said those things of himself, or did the Father tell him. What things? Nicodemus said, "We know you are a teacher come from God...". So the question still is, did the Father reveal something to Nicodemus; because, "...except it be given/conceived from above, he cannot see (perceive, discern, understand) the kingdom of God."
Beloved, I am teaching no one: especially those who "already know". If I use a word more than once, I try to make sure I am
following the word in the context of scripture. If it does not mesh with the immediate scripture, than I must ask myself why.
Walk in the Light, Beloved.
Click to expand...
No, Mr. Villa Nicodemus was not "using another definition" are you kidding? He was asking the Lord what He was trying to say by a "man must be born-again" and so what if you have a inter-linear what does that prove or mean as the reading is clear? Is a mothers womb "above"? Is the exact word translated different in 5 directly related passages? No, Mr Villa it is not and this passage cannot read as you have tried to teach it to others. You are in error and if you are the "man of God" you claim? You will admit the truth and repent.
 
Candelario Mario Villa said:
_____________________________________________

Kenneth Copeland was a disciple of Kenneth Hagin: he (Copeland) remains in the teaching that Hagin taught in the 70's-90's.
Brother Hagin died in the faith, and at his death we shared the same Gospel.
Walk in the Spirit, Beloved.
Click to expand...
"shared the same gospel"? I have many books of his, along with E.W. Kenyon.. They taught the righteousness of faith and a man must be born-again. I think you are missing the foundations of what gospel K.H. taught?
 
Mitspa said:
"shared the same gospel"? I have many books of his, along with E.W. Kenyon.. They taught the righteousness of faith and a man must be born-again. I think you are missing the foundations of what gospel K.H. taught?
Click to expand...
These guys would have giving you the same questions I have for trying to teach that "born-again" does not mean "born-again"
 
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JustPassingThru said:
Would that be the same doctrine that Dad Hagin told, Copeland, Osteen, Dollar and the rest of his disciples gathered around his (Hagin) death bed that he had been wrong about the prosperity doctrine he taught?

Blessings,

Gene
Click to expand...
Not sure where you got that info JPT? but it did not happen, the last person K.H. spoke to was his wife of many years. Look, there are enough real problems in the WOF without making stuff up. I left the WOF because of pride and greed, I need not make up stuff or bear false witness. There was an attempt by Hagin to correct some, but it was not on his deathbed and it was not a confession of wrong doctrine on his behalf.
 
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Candelario Mario Villa said:
______________________________________________
I guess I will have to study on what is "replacement theology"! I understand that the Lord did not have two folds, but had only one fold for both sheep: Jews and Gentiles. I also understand that the Lord did not replace the Jews with the Gentiles, but is calling us all in one calling: "...one Lord, one faith, one baptism." Also, that we, who were once Gentiles, have been grafted in to "...the natural olive tree...". I must be missing something.

OK. I give up. Can someone give me a brief outline (very brief) of what is "replacement theology"?
I would really appreciate it.
Click to expand...
You have covered it well. Any argument against those scriptures in an effort to try to support replacement theology would be silly at best.
Replacement theology states :
  1. The Jewish people are no longer God's chosen people. Instead, the Christian church now makes up God's chosen people. This implies that God has a short attention span.
  2. In the New Testament after Pentecost, the term "Israel" refers to the church. The Term Israel can refer to Jacob, to the nation of Israel to Jesus even because it means the servant of the Lord.
  3. The Mosaic covenant (Exodus 20) is replaced by the new covenant (Luke 22:20). The new covenant made in the blood of Christ replaces an old covenant, not people.
  4. Actual circumcision is replaced by a circumcision of the heart (Rom. 2:29). Circumcision as practiced by the OT is of no value, but it is not logically a dis qualifier of people, else non circumcision would be a qualifier of salvation. Gal 5:2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. Clearly this is Paul's opinion, but not a directive from the Lord, now read on..
    Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
    So this puts the matter in proper perspective.. the argument about circumcision supporting replacement theology has no substance.
 
Candelario Mario Villa said:
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Beloved, my reading is that they were in the tribulation, before they came out of the tribulation. I see that you are reading it
as they came out before the (great) tribulation. Either way, they "...stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palms in their hands...".
The Israelites, in the Law, needed to wash their clothes before presenting themselves before the Lord: although they were
already the chosen of the Lord. So these in Revelations, it seems to me, were already saved; but they "...washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." The Apostle Paul said we have not "...resisted unto blood, striving against sin." But it is apparent that these that stood before the throne did resist unto blood...
On the Day of the Lord, will a billion people be gathered together unto Him...or a remnant? It doesn't matter: the Lord is able to rescue a few or many.
Beloved, walk in holiness before the Lord.
Click to expand...

NO sir.....they were IN the tribulation and then came out of the tribulation. To come out of they must have been IN it therefore they came THROUGH it, not before it but out from it.

A Remnant.

Matthew 7:14
"Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it".
 
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