Question About Former Church

[JustPassingThru]

Daniel tells us that in the last days knowledge will increase and I think every one here will agree with that, especially old codgers like Major and myself (sitting typing at computers), however, not only knowledge, but the Word will become more clearer, for instance, back in the 80's I remember the go to commentary on Revelation was written by Barnhouse, but in the last 10 years our understanding of the Apocalypse is far beyond what he was taught by the Lord, ...as both Major and I have shared, there is a divine outline given to us in Rev 1:19 by Jesus Christ Himself if we will receive it.

What things John saw in chapter one is his cousin, Jesus, Glorified, restored to His perfection and glory (and when He was here on earth as the God-Man He didn't know the day or the hour, but now He does).

What things are, for John at that time, was/is the Church, chapters 2,3 and I think everyone will agree the Church is still on the earth today.

What things that are to come starts with chapter four to twenty-two.

John tells us, as a faithful witness and in this narrative a type of the Church, at the beginning of chapter four, he saw a door open in Heaven and Jesus telling him to come up here and He, Jesus, would show him what is going to come after, after the Church is raptured, caught away, snatched up, what ever you might like to call it. Now the Church is the Bride of Christ and we will spend seven years on our honeymoon with our Bridegroom in Heaven, while the last seven years of Daniel's 70 week prophecy to Israel must be fulfilled, if not then God's Word cannot be trusted, we can't trust in the finished work of the Cross, we don't have any assurance that God can finish the work He stated in us, we are without hope and doomed, but, we know God can't lie so the final 7 years of the prophecy will come to pass for the Jews, ...Jesus gave a hint to Nicodemus that he didn't understand, but we do today, because the dry bones prophecy of Ez 37 was fulfilled on May 14, 1948.

When we consider the Church, chapters 2 & 3, there are three way we can apply it, regard it, interpret it, as (1) historically, there were/are seven church periods since the day of Pentecost, (2) there is word to churches in how they are behaving, what they are doing, how they are ministering, and (3) there is a personal application to each individual believer.

Historically the first 3 churches, Ephesus, Smyrna, and Pergamos have passed off of the scene, that leaves the other four churches, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicean (three cities named and one people named, that should give us a big insight), still on planet earth, if historically the church of Thyatira started around 600 AD, ...then the question is which of these four churches does Jesus say He will rapture, i.e. not cause to go through the final 7 years of Daniel's 70 week prophecy, in the Old Testament referred to as the Time of Jacob's Trouble, referred to as the Tribulation in the New Testament?

I highly recommend everyone prayerfully study these last four churches and make certain you are in the church that Jesus will take home to be with Him.

Time to go back to work,

Blessings,

Gene

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Daniel tells us that in the last days knowledge will increase and I think every one here will agree with that, especially old codgers like Major and myself (sitting typing at computers), however, not only knowledge, but the Word will become more clearer, for instance, back in the 80's I remember the go to commentary on Revelation was written by Barnhouse, but in the last 10 years our understanding of the Apocalypse is far beyond what he was taught by the Lord, ...as both Major and I have shared, there is a divine outline given to us in Rev 1:19 by Jesus Christ Himself if we will receive it.
What things John saw in chapter one is his cousin, Jesus, Glorified, restored to His perfection and glory (and when He was here on earth as the God-Man He didn't know the day or the hour, but now He does).
What things are, for John at that time, was/is the Church, chapters 2,3 and I think everyone will agree the Church is still on the earth today.
What things that are to come starts with chapter four to twenty-two.
John tells us, as a faithful witness and in this narrative a type of the Church, at the beginning of chapter four, he saw a door open in Heaven and Jesus telling him to come up here and He, Jesus, would show him what is going to come after, after the Church is raptured, caught away, snatched up, what ever you might like to call it. Now the Church is the Bride of Christ and we will spend seven years on our honeymoon with our Bridegroom in Heaven, while the last seven years of Daniel's 70 week prophecy to Israel must be fulfilled, if not then God's Word cannot be trusted, we can't trust in the finished work of the Cross, we don't have any assurance that God can finish the work He stated in us, we are without hope and doomed, but, we know God can't lie so the final 7 years of the prophecy will come to pass for the Jews, ...Jesus gave a hint to Nicodemus that he didn't understand, but we do today, because the dry bones prophecy of Ez 37 was fulfilled on May 14, 1948.
When we consider the Church, chapters 2 & 3, there are three way we can apply it, regard it, interpret it, as (1) historically, there were/are seven church periods since the day of Pentecost, (2) there is word to churches in how they are behaving, what they are doing, how they are ministering, and (3) there is a personal application to each individual believer.
Historically the first 3 churches, Ephesus, Smyrna, and Pergamos have passed off of the scene, that leaves the other four churches, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicean (three cities named and one people named, that should give us a big insight), still on planet earth, if historically the church of Thyatira started around 600 AD, ...then the question is which of these four churches does Jesus say He will rapture, i.e. not cause to go through the final 7 years of Daniel's 70 week prophecy, in the Old Testament referred to as the Time of Jacob's Trouble, referred to as the Tribulation in the New Testament?
I highly recommend everyone prayerfully study these last four churches and make certain you are in the church that Jesus will take home to be with Him.Time to go back to work, Blessings, Gene

________________________________________________________

Thank you, Beloved. You have made some good points...except that John the Baptist, who was the son of Zacariah and Elizabeth, and the Apostle John are two different individuals.

 

[Major]

Everybody has some great points: especially Rodain. What I see is that the Lord knows how to differentiate between His
people, and those who are not His. I agree that those living in Goshen had water to drink (no blood), and no fleas,
frogs, locusts, etc.; and their herd was also were safe. Which brings us to the point: "These are they which came out
of great tribulation." Either they came out from the great tribulation, or touching upon a persecution of the Church.

Boom! And there it is my brother!!!

You just said......
"Either they came out from the great tribulation, or touching upon a persecution of the Church".

The removal of the Church (True believers) at the Rapture then makes the statement you made possible which was..........

"Either they came out from the great tribulation"!!!!

That is exactly what they did. They came out of the Great Tribulation!

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Boom! And there it is my brother!!!
You just said......
"Either they came out from the great tribulation, or touching upon a persecution of the Church".
The removal of the Church (True believers) at the Rapture then makes the statement you made possible which was..........
"Either they came out from the great tribulation"!!!!
That is exactly what they did. They came out of the Great Tribulation!

__________________________________________

Beloved, my reading is that they were in the tribulation, before they came out of the tribulation. I see that you are reading it
as they came out before the (great) tribulation. Either way, they "...stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palms in their hands...".
The Israelites, in the Law, needed to wash their clothes before presenting themselves before the Lord: although they were
already the chosen of the Lord. So these in Revelations, it seems to me, were already saved; but they "...washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." The Apostle Paul said we have not "...resisted unto blood, striving against sin." But it is apparent that these that stood before the throne did resist unto blood...
On the Day of the Lord, will a billion people be gathered together unto Him...or a remnant? It doesn't matter: the Lord is able to rescue a few or many.
Beloved, walk in holiness before the Lord.

 

[Mitspa]

Like I said this issue has not been my point of study but I have noticed some things that might answer why some think the Church must go through the great trial to come and some believe that the Church will be spared?

Re 3:7 ¶ "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, 'These things says He who is holy, He who is true, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens":
8 "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.
9 "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie--indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
10 "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Now just as "salvation" - "deliverance from this world, works according ones spiritual obedience, through faith and love, it could be that a portion of the believers will be "kept from the hour of trail" while those who fell short of obedience to the truth, have failed to seek the deliverance from this world, because of their love for this world?
Again these are just some thoughts, not teaching this as sound doctrine.

 

[Major]

Like I said this issue has not been my point of study but I have noticed some things that might answer why some think the Church must go through the great trial to come and some believe that the Church will be spared?

Re 3:7 ¶ "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, 'These things says He who is holy, He who is true, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens":
8 "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.
9 "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie--indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
10 "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Now just as "salvation" - "deliverance from this world, works according ones spiritual obedience, through faith and love, it could be that a portion of the believers will be "kept from the hour of trail" while those who fell short of obedience to the truth, have failed to seek the deliverance from this world, because of their love for this world?
Again these are just some thoughts, not teaching this as sound doctrine.

Mitspa, the biggest thing or better said, hang up, IMHO is the fact that some of our brethren can not understand that there is a difference between Israel and the Church. They believe that the Church has accepted all the promises made to Israel when in fact it has not.

The promises made to Israel will come to fact in God's timing and not to the Church.

After the Church has been removed to heaven it is then when God turns His attention to Israel and the prophecies made to Israel will be fulfilled.

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa, the biggest thing or better said, hang up, IMHO is the fact that some of our brethren can not understand that there is a difference between Israel and the Church. They believe that the Church has accepted all the promises made to Israel when in fact it has not.

The promises made to Israel will come to fact in God's timing and not to the Church.

After the Church has been removed to heaven it is then when God turns His attention to Israel and the prophecies made to Israel will be fulfilled.

I would agree in general terms that many take a prophecy or promise given the Israel (in the flesh) and apply it in all kinds of error and then build off of error, more error. Then expect others to just kind of follow along with their understanding into some crazy stuff. I must say I have never heard a teaching on end-times etc.. That brings that awareness of revelation, light and peace, such as that which the sound doctrine of the gospel brings to me. Having confidence in the truth of the gospel, I do not feel the need have all the end-time answers. I know this, Gods grace and love will carry "out" or "through" or "over" "beyond" etc... Those who know and trust in His gospel. I know that "When light "truth" comes, the heart rejoices" I have not had this witness, in any teaching that I have heard, although I can agree with some but not all of much that is taught in this issue, by many different teachers. Some things are clear error to me according to the gospel, but some things I cannot have as much confidence in as some seem to be willing to have. Still willing to listen and consider all those from the "born-again" groups. But some I will not even consider because they are so-far from the truth of the gospel. Blessings

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Mitspa, the biggest thing or better said, hang up, IMHO is the fact that some of our brethren can not understand that there is a difference between Israel and the Church. They believe that the Church has accepted all the promises made to Israel when in fact it has not.
The promises made to Israel will come to fact in God's timing and not to the Church.
After the Church has been removed to heaven it is then when God turns His attention to Israel and the prophecies made to Israel will be fulfilled.

_____________________________________________

Beloved, what many believers cannot understand is that there is a difference between Jacob and Israel (as opposed to Israel and the Church). The promise was through Jacob; for he was of the lineage from where the Lord Jesus was born; but the blessing is in Israel, for he dared to want to know the NAME of the ONE with whom he wrestled (Gen. 32:29)

Beloved, the blessing of the Lord is for all who call (invoke) His NAME. Have we not understood? "For whosoever shall call on the NAME of the Lord shall be saved." The promise came and was fullfilled in the birth of Jesus Christ; the blessing was fullfilled on the Day of Pentecost, after the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. The promise and the blessing have come together
in the Church through His NAME!

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

I would agree in general terms that many take a prophecy or promise given the Israel (in the flesh) and apply it in all kinds of error and then build off of error, more error. Then expect others to just kind of follow along with their understanding into some crazy stuff. I must say I have never heard a teaching on end-times etc.. That brings that awareness of revelation, light and peace, such as that which the sound doctrine of the gospel brings to me. Having confidence in the truth of the gospel, I do not feel the need have all the end-time answers. I know this, Gods grace and love will carry "out" or "through" or "over" "beyond" etc... Those who know and trust in His gospel. I know that "When light "truth" comes, the heart rejoices" I have not had this witness, in any teaching that I have heard, although I can agree with some but not all of much that is taught in this issue, by many different teachers. Some things are clear error to me according to the gospel, but some things I cannot have as much confidence in as some seem to be willing to have. Still willing to listen and consider all those from the "born-again" groups. But some I will not even consider because they are so-far from the truth of the gospel. Blessings

________________________________________________

Beloved, tell me: of all the "born again" groups, how would you know which ones are "so-far from the truth"? Do you mean
that the gospel they preach is not the Gospel of Peter and Paul? Or are you referring to the doctrines they espouse? Or perhaps
the Godhead they preach is in direct contradiction to that which you proclaim?

 

[Mitspa]

________________________________________________
Beloved, tell me: of all the "born again" groups, how would you know which ones are "so-far from the truth"? Do you mean
that the gospel they preach is not the Gospel of Peter and Paul? Or are you referring to the doctrines they espouse? Or perhaps
the Godhead they preach is in direct contradiction to that which you proclaim?

I believe in general those who have some understanding of the truth, know what I mean by the term? A man must be "born-again" is a common teaching, it is not some abstract teaching that needs to be explained. "how do I know the truth" I need not defend the truth I have, Gods Word is my defense. I need not change the words to match my own ideas, I allow the word to change me, until I come into agreement with Gods word. I need no guru to tell me the meaning of the words of scripture, God in His wisdom has made these things known to those who love the truth. He has so designed His word that each word and truth bears witness to each other, and he has chosen a well-known tongue in the Greek, that all might be able to search and know the truth, from the least to the greatest. No, i do not need some passing prophet to tell me what God has already said in plain and simple words. "god told me" and words don't really mean what they clearly mean, is how every cult is started.

 

[Major]

_____________________________________________

Beloved, what many believers cannot understand is that there is a difference between Jacob and Israel (as opposed to Israel and the Church). The promise was through Jacob; for he was of the lineage from where the Lord Jesus was born; but the blessing is in Israel, for he dared to want to know the NAME of the ONE with whom he wrestled (Gen. 32:29)
Beloved, the blessing of the Lord is for all who call (invoke) His NAME. Have we not understood? "For whosoever shall call on the NAME of the Lord shall be saved." The promise came and was fullfilled in the birth of Jesus Christ; the blessing was fullfilled on the Day of Pentecost, after the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. The promise and the blessing have come together
in the Church through His NAME!

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."

The biggest problem with this replacement theology is that, in order to make it work, proponents have to spiritualize parts of the Scriptures, saying that they are not speaking literally, but only figuratively.
But that doesn't make sense. If the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah are literal, which history has proved, why would anyone think that the prophecies about the second coming would not be literal, also? Dr. David Reagan says: "If the common sense makes sense, then any other sense is nonsense!"

It is true that many prophecies of the Old Testament were indeed fulfilled in the establishment of the early church. However, it becomes obvious when you study the Scriptures that there is a difference between the promises made to Israel as a nation, and the Church today. God's covenant with Israel has never been "replaced"; it is irrevocable, and as solid as God himself.

And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:7​

 

[Major]

I would agree in general terms that many take a prophecy or promise given the Israel (in the flesh) and apply it in all kinds of error and then build off of error, more error. Then expect others to just kind of follow along with their understanding into some crazy stuff. I must say I have never heard a teaching on end-times etc.. That brings that awareness of revelation, light and peace, such as that which the sound doctrine of the gospel brings to me. Having confidence in the truth of the gospel, I do not feel the need have all the end-time answers. I know this, Gods grace and love will carry "out" or "through" or "over" "beyond" etc... Those who know and trust in His gospel. I know that "When light "truth" comes, the heart rejoices" I have not had this witness, in any teaching that I have heard, although I can agree with some but not all of much that is taught in this issue, by many different teachers. Some things are clear error to me according to the gospel, but some things I cannot have as much confidence in as some seem to be willing to have. Still willing to listen and consider all those from the "born-again" groups. But some I will not even consider because they are so-far from the truth of the gospel. Blessings

We stand in agreement and if your mind changes, I would be honored to speak with you if you so desired about the end times. You are welcome to PM me if you like my brother.

I am a believer in the literal sense, also that the Rapture is the next prophetic event, followed by 7 years of Tribulation, Armageddon, then the 1000 year rule of Christ.

 

[calvin]

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."

The biggest problem with this replacement theology is that, in order to make it work, proponents have to spiritualize parts of the Scriptures, saying that they are not speaking literally, but only figuratively.
But that doesn't make sense. If the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah are literal, which history has proved, why would anyone think that the prophecies about the second coming would not be literal, also? Dr. David Reagan says: "If the common sense makes sense, then any other sense is nonsense!"

I've never really studied 'replacement theology' Major. It seems to me to be founded on a profound and comprehensive lack of knowledge of the Lord. If the Lord was into replacement, He could have left the Noah family to drown with the rest of mankind, gaged Satan and replaced the human race with a replacement Adam and Eve.....but He didn't replace, He redeemed.
What is it we say of the Lord? 'The rock of our salvation', the Lord our redeemer' and similar. We never say 'our Lord the replacer'
The Whole of Scripture is about Redemption and restoration. About victory over death.

Good post you made up yonder.

 

[JustPassingThru]

Thank you, Beloved. You have made some good points...except that John the Baptist, who was the son of Zacariah and Elizabeth, and the Apostle John are two different individuals.

Ya got it bro, John the Revelator was the son of Salome, sister of Mary, so that makes him the cousin of Jesus, however, when a young pure, devout, girl in the youth group tummy started to bulge her parents sent her to her uncle Zacharias and Aunt Elisabeth, which makes the Baptist His cousin too.

Blessings,

Gene

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

I believe in general those who have some understanding of the truth, know what I mean by the term? A man must be "born-again" is a common teaching, it is not some abstract teaching that needs to be explained. "how do I know the truth" I need not defend the truth I have, Gods Word is my defense. I need not change the words to match my own ideas, I allow the word to change me, until I come into agreement with Gods word. I need no guru to tell me the meaning of the words of scripture, God in His wisdom has made these things known to those who love the truth. He has so designed His word that each word and truth bears witness to each other, and he has chosen a well-known tongue in the Greek, that all might be able to search and know the truth, from the least to the greatest. No, i do not need some passing prophet to tell me what God has already said in plain and simple words. "god told me" and words don't really mean what they clearly mean, is how every cult is started.

______________________________________

OK. You are referring to the term "born again". Yes, it is a common teaching. Now everyone who is listening on this forum,
and on this thread in particular, knows that no one has advocated an "abstract teaching" on the born again experience...except maybe them that have an abstract way of thinking.

I agree that no one needs a guru: the Lord has chosen and given us "...some apostles; and some, prophets; and some,
evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of
the body of Christ...'. So what we need to do is match our ideas to those of the Lord's anointed: who are found in the pages of
the scriptures, and not as today's modernists posing as the Lord's anointed. Now if you are gifted in the area of teaching,
as you claim to understand the words of the Spirit, then please teach us: because no man can give what he doesn't have.

Now you are reverting back to the "God told me" argument, which is: if God has not spoken to you, then surely God must not
have spoken to anyone else! Now I'm not so sure that God has not spoken to anyone on this forum: or at least not in an audible voice. To paraphrase the man who was born blind: __ Why herein is a marvelous thing, that you have not heard Him speak to you, but I heard Him speak to me__. Beloved, I know the Lord has spoken to you, and is even now speaking to a multitude: He
is saying: "...come out of her (the confusion), my people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues." Can you hear Him now?

 

[JustPassingThru]

Beloved, my reading is that they were in the tribulation, before they came out of the tribulation. I see that you are reading it
as they came out before the (great) tribulation. Either way, they "...stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palms in their hands...".
The Israelites, in the Law, needed to wash their clothes before presenting themselves before the Lord: although they were
already the chosen of the Lord. So these in Revelations, it seems to me, were already saved; but they "...washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." The Apostle Paul said we have not "...resisted unto blood, striving against sin." But it is apparent that these that stood before the throne did resist unto blood...
On the Day of the Lord, will a billion people be gathered together unto Him...or a remnant? It doesn't matter: the Lord is able to rescue a few or many.
Beloved, walk in holiness before the Lord.

Maybe this will help make this more clear, Paul tells us we are in the dispensation of Grace Eph 3:2, known as the Church age, the Church age is finished at the time of the rapture, then the dispensation of the Tribulation begins and will last 7 years, ...as I referenced to in my post there are four churches on the planet today, three are named after cities and one is named after the people of the city, Jesus tells us two of the churches named after cities will not be raptured, only a elect few out of those churches, the cities of Thyatyra and Sardis, the church named after the city of Philadelphia will be raptured and the fourth church, the church of the Laodiceans, which means the people make the decisions, we see Jesus standing outside of the church, this church will apostatize and will ultimately welcome and embrace the Anti-Christ, why, because Paul tells us they perish because they did not receive a love for the Truth and for that reason God will send a strong delusion on them where they can not be saved 2 Thess2:7-12.

So, those that have never heard the Gospel in the churches of Thyatyra and Sardis, will enter into the Tribulation along with all of the members of the different cults, they will be forced to take the mark of the beast and worship the Anti Christ to buy and sell or be decapitated, ...putting it all together we are saved by grace through faith and that faith is not of ourselves but was given to us by God, not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8, 9. The only thing we do is believe what God said, however, the Tribulation saints will have to to do a work to be saved, that is, not take the mark of the beast and then have enough strength in themselves to watch there wives, husbands, or children be tortured before their eyes and not renounce Jesus as their Christ, ...knowing after all of that they will lose their heads, that is the signification of washing their robes themselves in blood of the Lamb.



Also, to add to what has already been said, as to the Church replacing Israel that would make either the Father or the Son an polygamist, the Father has a Wife, Israel and the Son has a Bride, soon to become His Wife.

Blessings,

Gene

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

I've never really studied 'replacement theology' Major. It seems to me to be founded on a profound and comprehensive lack of knowledge of the Lord. If the Lord was into replacement, He could have left the Noah family to drown with the rest of mankind, gaged Satan and replaced the human race with a replacement Adam and Eve.....but He didn't replace, He redeemed.
What is it we say of the Lord? 'The rock of our salvation', the Lord our redeemer' and similar. We never say 'our Lord the replacer'
The Whole of Scripture is about Redemption and restoration. About victory over death.
Good post you made up yonder.

______________________________________________

I guess I will have to study on what is "replacement theology"! I understand that the Lord did not have two folds, but had only one fold for both sheep: Jews and Gentiles. I also understand that the Lord did not replace the Jews with the Gentiles, but is calling us all in one calling: "...one Lord, one faith, one baptism." Also, that we, who were once Gentiles, have been grafted in to "...the natural olive tree...". I must be missing something.

OK. I give up. Can someone give me a brief outline (very brief) of what is "replacement theology"?
I would really appreciate it.

 

[JustPassingThru]

Jacob and Israel.

The signification of the name Jacob is dirty rotten deceiver and scoundrel.
The signification of Israel is ruled by God.

These two names are used to show when Jacob was walking in the flesh, hence he is refereed to as Jacob, when he was walking in the spirit he is refereed to as Israel. When the nation of Israel was walking in the flesh they are referred to as Jacob, when they are walking in the Spirit they are referred to as Israel, also, when we who are born again are walking in the flesh we are Jacobs, when we are walking in the spirit we are Israels, just look at the stories when Jacob was called Jacob and we can see our flesh rearing it's ugly head, when we are walking in the spirit we can see the characteristics of Israel in our lives.

And while we are talking about Jacob, when Joesph presented his two sons Manasseh and Ephraim to his father, Jacob claimed them as his sons, making these two gentile boys a part of Israel, from that we can understand the symbolism Paul was teaching about we, the Church, being grafted into the stump.

Blessings,

Gene

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Maybe this will help make this more clear, Paul tells us we are in the dispensation of Grace Eph 3:2, known as the Church age, the Church age is finished at the time of the rapture, then the dispensation of the Tribulation begins and will last 7 years, ...as I referenced to in my post there are four churches on the planet today, three are named after cities and one is named after the people of the city, Jesus tells us two of the churches named after cities will not be raptured, only a elect few out of those churches, the cities of Thyatyra and Sardis, the church named after the city of Philadelphia will be raptured and the fourth church, the church of the Laodiceans, which means the people make the decisions, we see Jesus standing outside of the church, this church will apostatize and will ultimately welcome and embrace the Anti-Christ, why, because Paul tells us they perish because they did not receive a love for the Truth and for that reason God will send a strong delusion on them where they can not be saved 2 Thess2:7-12.
So, those that have never heard the Gospel in the churches of Thyatyra and Sardis, will enter into the Tribulation along with all of the members of the different cults, they will be forced to take the mark of the beast and worship the Anti Christ to buy and sell or be decapitated, ...putting it all together we are saved by grace through faith and that faith is not of ourselves but was given to us by God, not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8, 9. The only thing we do is believe what God said, however, the Tribulation saints will have to to do a work to be saved, that is, not take the mark of the beast and then have enough strength in themselves to watch there wives, husbands, or children be tortured before their eyes and not renounce Jesus as their Christ, ...knowing after all of that they will lose their heads, that is the signification of washing their robes themselves in blood of the Lamb.
Also, to add to what has already been said, as to the Church replacing Israel that would make either the Father or the Son an polygamist, the Father has a Wife, Israel and the Son has a Bride, soon to become His Wife.
Blessings, Gene

__________________________________________________

I have copied and pasted your last two posts, Beloved. I will take time and read them carefully: although I must say it seems
I will not agree with everything.
I can agree with Eph. 2:8-10; and with what Paul called the dispensation of grace.
Questions: what are the "cults" you to which you refer?

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

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I guess I will have to study on what is "replacement theology"! I understand that the Lord did not have two folds, but had only one fold for both sheep: Jews and Gentiles. I also understand that the Lord did not replace the Jews with the Gentiles, but is calling us all in one calling: "...one Lord, one faith, one baptism." Also, that we, who were once Gentiles, have been grafted in to "...the natural olive tree...". I must be missing something.

OK. I give up. Can someone give me a brief outline (very brief) of what is "replacement theology"?
I would really appreciate it.