Question About Former Church

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Another word, which is really the correct one is "Catching Away".
IMHO, the Pre-millennial view is the one which allows for all the pieces of the puzzle to fit nicely together for ME. I have spent a lot of time on all three views over the years and it seems to me that this view fits all the Biblical teachings without any work to make anything fit in.
The Post-Millennial view advocates that the 2nd Coming of Christ will be AFTER the church has led the world into being saved and 1000 years of harmony on the earth. This was popular when it seemed that the missionary message was going to save the world, but today as we study ALL the Scriptures we can clearly see that there will be no peace on the earth till Jesus brings it.
The Amillennial view actually means NO 1000 year rule of Christ on the earth. It says that the prophecies of the Millennial Kingdom are not literal but speak figuratively to the happy state of the church today. Now there is an oxymoron for you.
Then there is the Preterist view. It says that all prophecy has taken place and was centered in and around 70 AD.
Of all the views, this one makes absolutely no sense at all.

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No, I'm not referring to post mil: it's post trib. The catching away (pre-trib) makes no sense to me, mainly because I don't
believe we (the Church) will be perfected without those Jews who will be saved. They were not perfected without us, it is
presumptuous (I believe) for us to believe that the Church will be celebrating without them.

 

[Major]

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No, I'm not referring to post mil: it's post trib. The catching away (pre-trib) makes no sense to me, mainly because I don't
believe we (the Church) will be perfected without those Jews who will be saved. They were not perfected without us, it is
presumptuous (I believe) for us to believe that the Church will be celebrating without them.

But Villa.......isn't that what the Church is all about. The church is the instrument whereby a Gentile and a Jew can come to God on the same basis and thereby creating something that never was before. Where there was Jew (saved) and Gentile (lost) now there is the Church where the chosen of both came come together by faith in Christ.

Matt. 16:18
"And I also say to you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it".

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

But Villa.......isn't that what the Church is all about. The church is the instrument whereby a Gentile and a Jew can come to God on the same basis and thereby creating something that never was before. Where there was Jew (saved) and Gentile (lost) now there is the Church where the chosen of both came come together by faith in Christ.Matt. 16:18
"And I also say to you that you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it".

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Amen. That's how I see it. And I don't believe that the Gospel has changed or will be changed. "...and other sheep have I that are not of this fold: them also must I bring in...". And the Lord is bringing us into the fold that once belonged only to the Jews.
But what I submit is that there will not be another fold aside from the fold that is already!

Now if the Jews were the only ones guilty of the Lord's crucifixion, then I could see that there was another way for them to be saved by way of the tribulation; while the Church would be celebrating the Wedding Feast.

 

[Mitspa]

Interesting discussion, and I must say that I have never felt the Lord draw me into the whole end-times issues, other than just as it relates to more of foundational teachings of faith and love, righteousness etc.. I do agree with Mr. Villa that the message I get is "always be ready" for no man knows the hour or the day, not Even the Son. I think it clear as we look at certain scriptures, much of these prophetic scriptures are coming to pass, the world grows in knowledge and in wickedness. I would say that any group who claims they have these issues all figured out? Should maybe be avoided?

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Interesting discussion, and I must say that I have never felt the Lord draw me into the whole end-times issues, other than just as it relates to more of foundational teachings of faith and love, righteousness etc.. I do agree with Mr. Villa that the message I get is "always be ready" for no man knows the hour or the day, not Even the Son. I think it clear as we look at certain scriptures, much of these prophetic scriptures are coming to pass, the world grows in knowledge and in wickedness. I would say that any group who claims they have these issues all figured out? Should maybe be avoided?

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Amen. Although speculating is not a big problem if one is ready! But to predict a date and time...that's another matter.

 

[Major]

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Amen. That's how I see it. And I don't believe that the Gospel has changed or will be changed. "...and other sheep have I that are not of this fold: them also must I bring in...". And the Lord is bringing us into the fold that once belonged only to the Jews.
But what I submit is that there will not be another fold aside from the fold that is already!

Now if the Jews were the only ones guilty of the Lord's crucifixion, then I could see that there was another way for them to be saved by way of the tribulation; while the Church would be celebrating the Wedding Feast.

O......but it will change my brother! The gospel will defiantly change.

Rev. 13:15-17
" And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

Revelation 14:9-11
"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

These verses as a unit, through the message of the 3rd angel teach us that if anyone worships the Beast and receives the mark, then he is one whose soul will be lost forever. I find this conclusion is inescapable. This sin constitutes the Un-pardonable sin for the Tribulation Age IMHO.

During the Tribulation, the lost man must accept the gospel of the Lord Jesus plus they must refuse the mark of the beast.
So IMO, the gospel does in fact change.

 

[Major]

Interesting discussion, and I must say that I have never felt the Lord draw me into the whole end-times issues, other than just as it relates to more of foundational teachings of faith and love, righteousness etc.. I do agree with Mr. Villa that the message I get is "always be ready" for no man knows the hour or the day, not Even the Son. I think it clear as we look at certain scriptures, much of these prophetic scriptures are coming to pass, the world grows in knowledge and in wickedness. I would say that any group who claims they have these issues all figured out? Should maybe be avoided?

Agreed completely.

If we are not "ready" then we are in trouble!

Aren't you glad that Jesus saves us and KEEPS us saved even when we are in disobedience!

 

[Major]

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Amen. Although speculating is not a big problem if one is ready! But to predict a date and time...that's another matter.

Agreed!

When someone says they know the month or day or year of the Lords return.......run from them!

We are to know the "season" and I believe that if we look around us, the signs of the season are with us today. Actually as one who believes in the "Catching Away" (Rapture), it is the next event on God's schedule and it can happen any day now. There is nothing needing to take place for the Rapture to take place.

So.......be ready and....."Watch therefore, for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come"!

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Agreed!

When someone says they know the month or day or year of the Lords return.......run from them!

We are to know the "season" and I believe that if we look around us, the signs of the season are with us today. Actually as one who believes in the "Catching Away" (Rapture), it is the next event on God's schedule and it can happen any day now. There is nothing needing to take place for the Rapture to take place.

So.......be ready and....."Watch therefore, for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come"!

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"...for that day (the Day of the Lord) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be
revealed, the son of perdition; who opposes himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits
in the temple (congregation) of God, showing himself that he is God." Remember the scripture in Job, where satan "...came
also among them."

The Church will not fall away (apostacize), but many believers will fall away; and "...the son of perdition..." will sit among the believers who apostacized and through them claim that he is the God of the Church. We do not have to wait upon a physical
temple on the mount!

 

[Major]

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"...for that day (the Day of the Lord) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be
revealed, the son of perdition; who opposes himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits
in the temple (congregation) of God, showing himself that he is God." Remember the scripture in Job, where satan "...came
also among them."
The Church will not fall away (apostacize), but many believers will fall away; and "...the son of perdition..." will sit among the believers who apostacized and through them claim that he is the God of the Church. We do not have to wait upon a physical
temple on the mount!

I agree with some of your comments.

However, I believe that we as people are right now in the middle of the "falling away". The church will not fail because she will be caught away to heaven as the Bride of Christ to live in New Jerusalem, the Pearly White City of God and the home of the church.

I also do think that there must be another temple built. I believe the Scriptures are very clear on that.

2nd Thess. 2:4
"Who (A/C) opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is worshipped, so that he as God SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD shewing himself that he is God".

 

[AllieWi]

Another word, which is really the correct one is "Catching Away".

IMHO, the Pre-millennial view is the one which allows for all the pieces of the puzzle to fit nicely together for ME. I have spent a lot of time on all three views over the years and it seems to me that this view fits all the Biblical teachings without any work to make anything fit in.

The Post-Millennial view advocates that the 2nd Coming of Christ will be AFTER the church has led the world into being saved and 1000 years of harmony on the earth. This was popular when it seemed that the missionary message was going to save the world, but today as we study ALL the Scriptures we can clearly see that there will be no peace on the earth till Jesus brings it.

The Amillennial view actually means NO 1000 year rule of Christ on the earth. It says that the prophecies of the Millennial Kingdom are not literal but speak figuratively to the happy state of the church today. Now there is an oxymoron for you.

Then there is the Preterist view. It says that all prophecy has taken place and was centered in and around 70 AD.
Of all the views, this one makes absolutely no sense at all.

Yes I have to agree with you Major. And it gives me confidence too that you and others here have studied both views. My Spirit knows the truth. Sometimes I feel the truth revealed thru a feeling of light and while I was at that church there seemed a castes shadow over my life--- now idk if that was just me or what--- I know it's not in the bible like how I'm describing. But that's what it felt like. It was a subtle darkness. Not evil-- just .. Idk I sound a little crazy haha

 

[Major]

Yes I have to agree with you Major. And it gives me confidence too that you and others here have studied both views. My Spirit knows the truth. Sometimes I feel the truth revealed thru a feeling of light and while I was at that church there seemed a castes shadow over my life--- now idk if that was just me or what--- I know it's not in the bible like how I'm describing. But that's what it felt like. It was a subtle darkness. Not evil-- just .. Idk I sound a little crazy haha

OK.......1st of all........what does "idk" mean?

 

[Major]

Yes I have to agree with you Major. And it gives me confidence too that you and others here have studied both views. My Spirit knows the truth. Sometimes I feel the truth revealed thru a feeling of light and while I was at that church there seemed a castes shadow over my life--- now idk if that was just me or what--- I know it's not in the bible like how I'm describing. But that's what it felt like. It was a subtle darkness. Not evil-- just .. Idk I sound a little crazy haha

Yes mamn, if one is going to comment or teach this stuff, one must have an understanding of all of them to grasp what is Biblically right or wrong. That is what I have tried to do now for a long time.

 

[Mitspa]

_________________________________________
"...for that day (the Day of the Lord) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be
revealed, the son of perdition; who opposes himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits
in the temple (congregation) of God, showing himself that he is God." Remember the scripture in Job, where satan "...came
also among them."
The Church will not fall away (apostacize), but many believers will fall away; and "...the son of perdition..." will sit among the believers who apostacized and through them claim that he is the God of the Church. We do not have to wait upon a physical
temple on the mount!

If when the Roman Empire took over all that was called "Christianity" could not be called a "falling away" I don't think the term has much meaning. I do not beat-up on the members of the RCC and try not to insult or provoke them needlessly, but to me this scripture is not something that is yet to come, but has come and we are yet dealing with the effect and the power of this "falling away". I allow that others have a different view, not a point I would get wrap around the axle (so to say) about.

 

[AllieWi]

Interesting discussion, and I must say that I have never felt the Lord draw me into the whole end-times issues, other than just as it relates to more of foundational teachings of faith and love, righteousness etc.. I do agree with Mr. Villa that the message I get is "always be ready" for no man knows the hour or the day, not Even the Son. I think it clear as we look at certain scriptures, much of these prophetic scriptures are coming to pass, the world grows in knowledge and in wickedness. I would say that any group who claims they have these issues all figured out? Should maybe be avoided?

Good point, mitspa

 

[AllieWi]

Yes mamn, if one is going to comment or teach this stuff, one must have an understanding of all of them to grasp what is Biblically right or wrong. That is what I have tried to do now for a long time.

I'm sorry! It means 'I don't know'

Whoops I quoted the wrong post.

 

[Mitspa]

OK.......1st of all........what does "idk" mean?

Let me guess "I didn't know"
Too late you already posted the answer but "idk" lol

 

[AllieWi]

IMS = IM NOT SURE!?

Lol made that one up.

 

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

Another thing to consider is how the Lord dealt with His people and with the world during the time that He did all those things to Egypt to let His people go; He didn't let one thing touch His people, not even one. There was a sever between His people and the people of the world.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8) so if He treated His people like that back then and we are much greater than they are (truly of all men born, John the Baptist was the greatest, yet, even the lesser lights in the Kingdom of Heaven are greater than he - which means you and me), then HOW could God, in this New Covenant which is BETTER than the 1st (which means to be better, it has to do EVERYTHING the old one did PLUS MORE), lump us in with the treatment of the world so that His people experience the horror of the wrath of God (the great tribulation).....There is no way - He would not do that, He will not do that and Romans 5:9, 1 Thes 5:9, Rev 6 and 7 bear that out.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Everybody has some great points: especially Rodain. What I see is that the Lord knows how to differentiate between His
people, and those who are not His. I agree that those living in Goshen had water to drink (no blood), and no fleas,
frogs, locusts, etc.; and their herd was also were safe. Which brings us to the point: "These are they which came out
of great tribulation." Either they came out from the great tribulation, or touching upon a persecution of the Church.