Regeneration Precedes Faith?
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Rusty, I am assuming you are saying that no one will be saved "AT" the moment of the Second Coming of Christ, correct?
Silk..........death ends all chances.
They would already have had to believe upon the Lord Jesus, and refuse the Mark of the Beast wouldn't they Rusty?
I'm not sur my brother. I do not believe that anyone will be saved at the moment of the appearing of Jesus at His second coming., But I am sure there will be a revival before He appears.
IMO the only ones converted will be those who did not hear the gospel of Christ
Death of the body or death of the soul? Just curious because, Major, you know already what I think/know
Rusty........do you really think that I have a theology???
Do you actually think that I sit around thinking up things to post in this forum to argue with others over?
Now to address your question of.......... You expect a revival in the "Tribulation"?
I expect nothing my brother. I simply read and state what the Scriptures say. You my admissiom are not a believer in the Literal Word of God and I by admission do. I am not smart enough to try and spiritualize what God said, I just believe waht He did say.
Now.......Do I expect a revival in the Tribulation?
Rusty, will you please explain Rev. 12:4
"Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel."
That seems to me to be a lot of people who become saved.
Now, then explain Rev. 12:11
"and they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto death".
Dosen't that tell you that even in the times of extreme pressure, sinners can be saved.
Then of course speaking of a revival there is this verse that needs to be explained.......
Rev. 7:9
"After this I beheld and lo, a GREAT MULTITUDE which no man could number of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues stood before the throne and before the Lamb clothed with whie robes and palm in their hands."
Clearly, the written literal Word of God says that there will be a revival in the face of persecution and a great number of people will be saved. That is what is says! These involved in the GREAT MULTITUDE have come to Christ, refused the mark of the beast through the witness of the 144,000 Jewish, virgin men.
That Rusty is what the Scriptures say! That is NOT my theology but the Word of God.
You know as well as I do Rusty that literalists do not take everything as literal. You know that!
When something is an allogorical statement it is acceptat as such, but you know that as well.
When it is poetic it is accepted as such.
DAvid says in Psalms that God has a heart like a rock. Now do you really believe that I think the Heart of God is a rock and do not grasp the picture drawn.??
Now.........I noticed that you deflected the questions asked about Rev. 7:9 and 12:4. I noticed that you did not answer them but instead went to a topic about literalism being a rigid way of reading the Bible.
So then, what is the way you understand the 144,000 Jewish male virgins to be and what is the "Multitude" in 12:4?
You do not answer my questions but instead ask me....................
Deut 15:17
"Then thou shalt take an aul, and thrust it through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And also unto thy maidservant thou shalt do likewise.
Why is this such a difficult verse that it needs to be explained. IT is what it is!!!
Moses teaches Israel the principles of the Hebrew bondslave principles and the conditions for his freedom. After the slave had served 7 years he was free to go his way.
From "The History of The Bible", page 163, we find.............
When a slave was realeased he was not sent away empty. His owner was commaned to furnish him liberally, which is to be understood literally.......
"Thou shalt put upon his neck from thy flock and from thy grain".
Those who understand Hebrew can take what is said here literally and the meaning is:
The servant will not serve his master for eternity or for an endless amount of time but instead for the remainder of the time which a bond servant is obligated to serve.
The Hebrew word translated "for ever" is `owlam and the word does not always refer to an endless time. When that word is used as referring to the future, as at Deueronomy 15:17, then the meaning of that word is "defined by the nature of the thing itself": "It more often refers to 'future time,' in such a manner, that what is called 'terminus ad quem,' it is always defined by the nature of the thing itself" (Geseniu's Lexicon).
So no one who knows Hebrew would have to say that this verse cannot be taken literally.
That is not correct is it Rusty. After the slave served seven years he was to be free at the year of Jubilee. Doesn't that effect the idea of "forever" ?
Now, I see that you still have not addresed Rev. 7 & 12 as to where the 144,000 and the "Multitude" are literal people saved during the Tribulation.
Yes, I think every is aware of the different school of Preterism.
Well it is a prickly, vociferous, unruly, take no prisoners, and knowledgeable choir (and that's just mewaving from the third row.) But there are no falsettos here.
I am more of a bass myself.
Agreed.
You are welcome to adress the Rev. question on this thread Rusty as it is just as relative as our conversation as was literalism compared to to the thread. So please go right ahead with your explination.