Religion, Faith And Rituals

[Brother Paul]

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Very well: God gives grace to the believer; and He has shown and gives mercy to them that He is calling to His grace. To those who are under God's mercy, we should speak words of mercy that we may lead them to grace. If one is not showing mercy, then one cannot certainly lead anyone to grace! If one speaks only in terms of "grace", sans mercy, one has entered into "legalism".

Candelario Mario Villa

I am not sure if I did not misunderstand so correct me if I did not get the correct point...

Grace does not equal mercy...

Mercy - not getting what one would deserve by the Law alone

Grace - getting what one does not deserve under the Law

So how does one speaking of "grace" equal "legalism"

Maybe if you clarify I will get what you meant by this

Thanks

 

[Mitspa]

No not necessary but yes Messiah Jesus is THE good and yes He through the cross IS the tree of life...that was the real point (at least from their view)...as a discussion Vid I guess we could open a different thread

Well I would reject the connection with the tree of knowledge as was presented on the video Christ was not both trees, the law represents the tree of knowledge of good and evil, from which death comes to man, through the knowledge of sin. In Christ we return to the original intention of Gods plan, made in His Image and His Glory and having life.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Two possibilities? 1 is that you have made contact with a spirit that is trying to convince you that it is god. and this spirit is making things happen around you to keep you in its deception.
2 That God is dealing with based upon what you will become and who you are in Christ (if in fact you are).
What sort of prayers and answers are you speaking of as evidence? The scriptures are very clear that God does not give us that we use for our own lust.

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I see #2: but it will made manifest very soon. Like everyone else, "...one shall be taken, the other left behind..."; she will either draw nearer to the Creator, or she will walk away from the Truth. What she doesn't need right now is to be offered the fruit "...of the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

Candelario Mario Villa

 

[Mitspa]

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I see #2: but it will made manifest very soon. Like everyone else, "...one shall be taken, the other left behind..."; she will either draw nearer to the Creator, or she will walk away from the Truth. What she doesn't need right now is to be offered the fruit "...of the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

Candelario Mario Villa

Yes don't try to put her under the law, that only increases the sins power over her. What she needs is the Spirit of Grace and to walk in the truth of Gods power for her.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

I am not sure if I did not misunderstand so correct me if I did not get the correct point...
Grace does not equal mercy...
Mercy - not getting what one would deserve by the Law alone
Grace - getting what one does not deserve under the Law
So how does one speaking of "grace" equal "legalism"
Maybe if you clarify I will get what you meant by this Thanks

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Correct. Grace does not equal mercy, but is what God uses to lead us to grace.

Mercy: NOT getting what we deserve, which is death. "For the wages of sin is death."
James wrote that "Mercy rejoices against judgment. " In effect, mercy withholds the judgment we deserve (death), until we receive what we don't deserve; which is, grace!\

Grace: receiving what we don't deserve (eternal life in Jesus Christ): who is God's gift to man. "For by grace are you saved, through faith...it is the gift of God."

Legalism: used by denominations against anyone who espouses or conforms to another doctrine. It is a label.
In reality, it is a label that can be used by anyone against anyone. But I prefer to only use it to help define the Gospel. If I did not differentiate between mercy and grace, for example, I could be trying to conform scripture to my sole interpretation: that would make me a "legalist". If I would submit to scripture, I could be called a "believer".

One must be able to discern whether the person we speak to is under God's Law of Mercy, or Grace. We can lead a person to Grace with Mercy: or overwhelm the person with Grace. Mercy, to me, is easier to understand from a sinner's perspective: because I was also there. To the person that forgets where he came from, what I have written would not make sense; to the legalist, I would be a false prophet.

Candelario Mario Villa

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Yes don't try to put her under the law, that only increases the sins power over her. What she needs is the Spirit of Grace and to walk in the truth of Gods power for her.

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"...ever learning, and never coming to the knowledge of the truth." How long will you close your ears to the Holy Spirit? But I already know your answer: you will say, "I know you are but what am I?"

Candelario Mario Villa

 

[Mitspa]

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Correct. Grace does not equal mercy, but is what God uses to lead us to grace.

Mercy: NOT getting what we deserve, which is death. "For the wages of sin is death."
James wrote that "Mercy rejoices against judgment. " In effect, mercy withholds the judgment we deserve (death), until we receive what we don't deserve; which is, grace!\

Grace: receiving what we don't deserve (eternal life in Jesus Christ): who is God's gift to man. "For by grace are you saved, through faith...it is the gift of God."

Legalism: used by denominations against anyone who espouses or conforms to another doctrine. It is a label.
In reality, it is a label that can be used by anyone against anyone. But I prefer to only use it to help define the Gospel. If I did not differentiate between mercy and grace, for example, I could be trying to conform scripture to my sole interpretation: that would make me a "legalist". If I would submit to scripture, I could be called a "believer".

One must be able to discern whether the person we speak to is under God's Law of Mercy, or Grace. We can lead a person to Grace with Mercy: or overwhelm the person with Grace. Mercy, to me, is easier to understand from a sinner's perspective: because I was also there. To the person that forgets where he came from, what I have written would not make sense; to the legalist, I would be a false prophet.

Candelario Mario Villa

No "legalism" is a term that is best described as those who attempt to justify themselves by the "letter" or works of the flesh.. religious works etc.. According to the "law of works" and not the "law of faith".

 

[Mitspa]

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"...ever learning, and never coming to the knowledge of the truth." How long will you close your ears to the Holy Spirit? But I already know your answer: you will say, "I know you are but what am I?"

Candelario Mario Villa

Good! just start responding to your own post for me, if you get one wrong? I will let you know

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Good! just start responding to your own post for me, if you get one wrong? I will let you know

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"I write unto you, little children, for your sins are forgiven you for His NAME"S sake."

You are a good little boy. I hope you enjoy that pacifier.
Now go play with your scrabble that you got for your birthday!

Candelario Mario Villa

 

[Mitspa]

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"I write unto you, little children, for your sins are forgiven you for His NAME"S sake."

You are a good little boy. I hope you enjoy that pacifier.
Now go play with your scrabble that you got for your birthday!

Candelario Mario Villa

Now Mario you remember the rules that you have broken in the past. Don't be rude and insulting.... Try to have a good sense of humor and a bit of kindness in your post... folks will respond better if you don't get so mean and nasty

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Now Mario you remember the rules that you have broken in the past. Don't be rude and insulting.... Try to have a good sense of humor and a bit of kindness in your post... folks will respond better if you don't get so mean and nasty

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You remembered! Good boy. Now see if you can remember this: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot
enter into the kingdom of God." Now read it three times a day and go take your nap.

Candelario Mario Villa

 

[Mitspa]

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You remembered! Good boy. Now see if you can remember this: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot
enter into the kingdom of God." Now read it three times a day and go take your nap.

Candelario Mario Villa

Try to be nice.... Mario And thanks for the scripture but I have moved past the issue of baptism and such..as should you.

Heb 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

 

[LanceA]

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Being born of water is typically referred to as the first birth of a person (mothers womb). Jesus wasn't talking about water baptism but of our first birth. Born of the Spirit is being born again.

 

[God calls me Olivia]

Ever hear the Orthodox explanation of the fall and salvation? It is an interesting study...

Christ is the only GOOD...

Just for edification if any would listen to the whole presentation...

Although I agree with some things, like Jesus being our tree of life and sin is energy (all manifestation is energy and love is at a different energy manifestation than hate), I disagree with his fall theory for the bible says, "because the life of every creature is its blood" (Leviticus 17:14). Sin is death, not life. Psalm 51:5 says, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (Hebrews 9:22). The sin blood (which every born has death in their blood or they would not die) was passed to all of creation. I do believe that Jesus is the tree of life which we live forever because we are covered with His blood. "For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins" (Matthew 26:28). "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace" (Ephesians 1:7). I also do not believe the church is the bride.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Try to be nice.... Mario And thanks for the scripture but I have moved past the issue of baptism and such..as should you.
Heb 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

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Neglecting sound doctrine is not moving past them.

Bloved, if you want to be treated like a man, then let your writings reflect it.

Candelario Mario Villa

 

[magdalena]

Ok

I just want to show you that Jesus is not only the Son of God, but is God as well

""In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John1:1). "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14).

From these two verses we can see that Jesus was the Word and it says, "the Word was God."

"Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am (John 8:58).
"And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you (Exodus 3:14).

Again by comparing scriptures we see that Jesus was God.

"Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross" (Philippians 2:5-8).

"But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom" (Hebrews 1:8).

Jesus is not God the Father, but God the Son.[/QUOT
Ok now I'm really confused. How could god be 2 people?? Ok so god got Mary pregnant and Jesus was born who was gods son because god impregnated her. So how is god the father and god the son? I really don't get this. If god wanted to come to earth as a human could he not have just come here in a human form himself?

 

[Mitspa]

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Neglecting sound doctrine is not moving past them.

Bloved, if you want to be treated like a man, then let your writings reflect it.

Candelario Mario Villa

Good don't neglect sound doctrine but at some point you should be able to move past these basic principles into the deeper things of God. And a "real" man does not try to make others think he is a man, he knows what he is that's what makes him a man.

 

[magdalena]

You are not a "Trinitarian" that's for sure but all you posted here is totally Biblical so you are fine at this stage (maybe further than some and not than others). I do hold a trinitarian perspective here (and agree with Olivia and Marios interpretation) but I will say the Bible nowhere requires my perspective for salvation. Not everyone I have fellowshipped with or spoken with believes Jesus is God manifest in the flesh or maybe they (to me) overemphasize the "IN" the flesh (God being in Christ reconciling the world to Himself also gets this difference of interpretation)...but please stay on board Magdelena, do not get discouraged, you do contribute and make some of us re-think on some issues...but know this, MOST on this forum are trinitarians...

I am not sure why I posted this I felt moved to do so...I hope it spoke to someone

In His love

brother Paul

That's great. Everyone's posts are very helpful, and answer a lot of my questions. I do believe in Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I just don't think it's right to pray to any other than god himself. I do know Jesus died for us and the Holy Spirit is our guide, gods voice. Some call it intuition, I call it gods spirit because in my case it's always right never led me astray or to make a wrong decision, that little voice we have. I believe that's Hoffa way to communicate with Us. I am grateful to Jesus for what he has done, because of him we are able to be forgiven and invite god into our life. But as I mentioned I, personally, believe in praying directly to god himself. After all he had the authority to answer and he has the ability to put us in the path he has for us.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Although I agree with some things, like Jesus being our tree of life and sin is energy (all manifestation is energy and love is at a different energy manifestation than hate), I disagree with his fall theory for the bible says, "because the life of every creature is its blood" (Leviticus 17:14). Sin is death, not life. Psalm 51:5 says, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (Hebrews 9:22). The sin blood (which every born has death in their blood or they would not die) was passed to all of creation. I do believe that Jesus is the tree of life which we live forever because we are covered with His blood. "For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins" (Matthew 26:28). "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace" (Ephesians 1:7). I also do not believe the church is the bride.

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Very good, Beloved. Please let me elaborate just a little.

Since the cross, to this day, I do not see anyone born in sin (sinful). The Lord Jesus has taken care of the sin of Adam. So we are born without sin, but we are "...baptized in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...". And it is only for our own
sins that we are responsible . According to scriptures, if anyone else can live without sin, he will not die: "...for the wages of sin is death...". But because "...all have sinned and come short of the glory of God...", then we will all die the death that is common for all men...except that those who are in Christ Jesus will be resurrected with Him!

Beloved, Walk in the Light.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Yes you should show mercy and reject legalism

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There you are! Now be a nice little boy and run along and play, and let the big boys have a discussion.