Revelation

Nov 6, 2019
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I agree 100% with your comment.

Personally, I believe that way too many people who do not understand the book go out of their way to give their personal opinion rather than doing the required study to find the real message. But that is just MY opinion!
I hear you sir!
The only person who is able to reveal the hidden treasures in the Bible, God's love letter to mankind, is the Holy Spirit.
My aim is to depend on Him every time I open this amazing book.
Bless you my brother in Christ
 
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I hear you sir!
The only person who is able to reveal the hidden treasures in the Bible, God's love letter to mankind, is the Holy Spirit.
My aim is to depend on Him every time I open this amazing book.
Bless you my brother in Christ
I agree completely with you brother and I look forward to your input.
 
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Continuing we see in Revelation 1:9...…….
"I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."


This verse tells us several things.

First it confirms that John is the author.
Second it tells us that he is our brother in the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Third, we understand that he is on the island of Patmos.
Then fourth, we see that he is in "trouble".

The "trouble" we see here is NOT the Great Tribulation which is yet to come. He is referring to the persecution that was already befalling believers in his day.

John was exiled to Patmos from 86 AD to 96 AD and it was there on a rocky, volcanic, lonely island that God gave him this great vision when he unlocked the book of Daniel.
 

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Continuing we see in Revelation 1:9...…….
"I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."


This verse tells us several things.

First it confirms that John is the author.
Second it tells us that he is our brother in the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Third, we understand that he is on the island of Patmos.
Then fourth, we see that he is in "trouble".

The "trouble" we see here is NOT the Great Tribulation which is yet to come. He is referring to the persecution that was already befalling believers in his day.

John was exiled to Patmos from 86 AD to 96 AD and it was there on a rocky, volcanic, lonely island that God gave him this great vision when he unlocked the book of Daniel.
He is the only one of died of natural causes, right?
 
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So it wasn't such a bad life. :)
Well.....all Christians were persecuted terribly. The Roman coliseum was the pace where Christians were slaughtered by gladiators and lions.
Rome paid 10% of any Christian's money when they were turned in by their family or friends and then that person was killed.

The Apostle John was exiled to the prison island of Patmos because he wouldn’t stop preaching the Gospel.

According to tradition/legend, he was sentenced to death by being thrown into a cauldron of boiling oil.
When that didn’t harm him at all, and actually caused a revival, he was sent to Patmos where there was no one to preach to. While there he was visited by the Lord Jesus in a vision who commanded him to write the book we know as The Revelation and then took him to the end of the age to witness all of it's unfolding.
 

rtm3039

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Well.....all Christians were persecuted terribly. The Roman coliseum was the pace where Christians were slaughtered by gladiators and lions.
Rome paid 10% of any Christian's money when they were turned in by their family or friends and then that person was killed.

The Apostle John was exiled to the prison island of Patmos because he wouldn’t stop preaching the Gospel.

According to tradition/legend, he was sentenced to death by being thrown into a cauldron of boiling oil.
When that didn’t harm him at all, and actually caused a revival, he was sent to Patmos where there was no one to preach to. While there he was visited by the Lord Jesus in a vision who commanded him to write the book we know as The Revelation and then took him to the end of the age to witness all of it's unfolding.
The place has changed a bit.

patmos_b.jpg
 
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Revelation 1:10...………..
"On the LORD's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet".


Being IN the Spirit, John was then unable to make a mistake.

The Lord's day is of course everyday of the week. However, in this case, it is the FIRST day of the week which is the day Chrst rose from the dead and as Christians we worship on that day which is Sunday.

Most Bible teachers say that the "Sound of a Trumpet" is the voice of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am not a scholar in any way whatsoever, but I believe that it is the voice of God as well.
 
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God might tell us all the same things, but we are all unique souls! What a boring world this would be without personal forms of self expression, especially through scripture. We all have an opinion.

Carry on you logical warriors; it doesn't matter to me if I agree or not. God made us all beautifully different!!! THAT is what I enjoy most about the body of Christ. Hugs to all, and to all a good night...
 
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God might tell us all the same things, but we are all unique souls! What a boring world this would be without personal forms of self expression, especially through scripture. We all have an opinion.

Carry on you logical warriors; it doesn't matter to me if I agree or not. God made us all beautifully different!!! THAT is what I enjoy most about the body of Christ. Hugs to all, and to all a good night...
I agree with you! My only concern is when our opinions are not based in the Word of God but in fact come from our own thoughts.

Maybe I did not say it correctly when I posted it to another person and if so I apologize to you.

Acts 10:34 says..........
'"..............of a truth, God is no respecter of persons".

Of course I know that you are aware that the original meaning of that comment from Peter was to correct the false teaching that only the Jews could be saved. God gave the truth to Peter that "Whosever will" is invited to come to Christ and be saved by the finished work of Christ Jesus.

That IMPO also means and speaks to the Bible truth that God does not show favoritism? He is not "particial". The ground at the foot of the cross is level and ALL can be saved.

That would also speak to those who believe that God has given them a "Special Word of knowledge" that He has not made available to everyone else and that was my point in my discussion. IF we are given something and we believe it came from God then it is imperitive that it be confirmed by the written Word of God. If it is not then it remains a personal opinion.

When anyone says that God has visited me or spoken to ME and gave ME something He has not given to anyone else, that IMO violates the premise of Acts 10:34 as well as other Scriptures.

When we look closely at the Bible we see that everyone is to be treated identically according to a divine standard or principle.

Proverbs 23:24-26...…….
"These also are sayings of the wise.
To show partiality in judgment is not good.
He who says to the wicked, “You are righteous,”
Peoples will curse him, nations will abhor him;
But to those who rebuke the wicked will be delight,".

Now, I agree with your comment and actually it is seen in Romans 14:5 confirms it...…...
" One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. "

We are all at different levels of learning and understanding and that learning comes from the Word of God. As we study the Scriptures we grow in knowldge.

Romans 10:17......
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God".

It is always a blessing to speak with you and I wish you a great day and good health!
 
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Revelation 1:11...………...
"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.


The Holy Spirit here is performing His office work. That is why I pray that the Holy Spirit of God might take the things of Christ and show them to us.

The exact words of Jesus in John 16:13-14 were...………..
"When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you."

We are beginning to get a feel for the glorified Christ. We are considering Him in His office as the Great High Priest" that He is today.

Please understand what I am saying to all. I know that I am totally incompetent to try and speak about these Scriptures to you. I am completely unqualified and unworthy to bring any exegesis to you. I am sure that there are many of you reading these words who are more qualified than I am.

Only the Holy Spirit of God can make these Scriptures real to us and I am keenly aware that not everyone is going to agree with my thoughts and I am not going to argue with anyone one what you believe. However, Hebrews 3:1 tells all of us that...……...….

"Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest."
 

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Unfortunately, one participant in this thread has been removed from the forum as well as all posts initiated or quoted by others.

The staff reviewed member conduct and post content and found a confrontational demeanor that violated Forum Rules -

This thread can now continue, but we ask that debating the merits of one doctrine or belief system over another be left out of this entire Forum because that debating may violate Forum Rules 2.1, 2.3, 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2b. Thank you.



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Good news. I am pleased that we can continue.

In the SEVEN churches we have a composite of all local churches at any particular time. Each church has a major characteristic.

The Church at Ephesus.....................They lost their first love.
The Church at Smyrna.......................It was the persecuted church.
The Church at Pergamos..................It was faithful but tolerated false teachers.
The Church at Thyatira......................This church was dominated by a powerful false prophet.
The Church at Sardis..........................This was a spiritually dying church.
The Church at Philadelphia............Faithful witnessing church.
The Church at Laodica......................Lukewarm church.

There is also a pattern used for each church ............

1. Destination.
2. Description.
3. Commendation.
4. Deficiency.
5. Demand.
6. Discrimination.
7. Promise.
 
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bobinfaith

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Good news. I am pleased that we can continue.

In the SEVEN churches we have a composite of all local churches at any particular time. Each church has a major characteristic.

The Church at Ephesus.....................They lost their first love.
The Church at Smyrna.......................It was the persecuted church.
The Church at Pergamos..................It was faithful but tolerated false teachers.
The Church at Thyatira......................This church was dominated by a powerful false prophet.
The Church at Sardis..........................This was a spiritually dying church.
The Church at Philadelphia............Faithful witnessing church.
The Church at Laodica......................Lukewarm church.

There is also a pattern used for each church ............

1. Destination.
2. Description.
3. Commendation.
4. Deficiency.
5. Demand.
6. Discrimination.
7. Promise.
Hello Major;

I'm currently studying Revelation 2 and Jesus pointed out the characteristics of each church. This is important.

Acts 2:42, 42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

In Hebrews 10:25, 24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

In Ephesians 4:11-13, 11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,

These Scriptures and more throughout the Old and New Testaments point to God's Word encouraging us to fellowship as one body so He can inhabit our praises and worship. Going to church allows the Lord to build up our character as done in Revelation 2.

Sad, but there are people who won't go to church because someone hurt their feelings. When we don't go to church we don't get discipled, we develop our own doctrine of the Scriptures. When we don't go to church we develop our own doctrine on our terms, instead of God's, and this will expose our errors. So, by not going to church because of another church member, is this God's fault? No!

Does the Scriptures not teach us about building our relationships and character with one another? Yes!

The seven descriptions that define our pattern for each church is what Jesus is pointing out to John. In other words, we all are accountable and these seven points reveal our individual and church family's character.

Major, thank you for sharing and discussing Revelation with us. I have to be honest, Revelation and Romans are challenging in my personal studies and God gives me the zeal to continue learning.

I have a question for you. If we all chose not to go to church, would Jesus have given His Word to John regarding the seven churches?

God bless you, brother, and Merry Christmas.
 
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Hello Major;

I'm currently studying Revelation 2 and Jesus pointed out the characteristics of each church. This is important.

Acts 2:42, 42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

In Hebrews 10:25, 24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

In Ephesians 4:11-13, 11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,

These Scriptures and more throughout the Old and New Testaments point to God's Word encouraging us to fellowship as one body so He can inhabit our praises and worship. Going to church allows the Lord to build up our character as done in Revelation 2.

Sad, but there are people who won't go to church because someone hurt their feelings. When we don't go to church we don't get discipled, we develop our own doctrine of the Scriptures. When we don't go to church we develop our own doctrine on our terms, instead of God's, and this will expose our errors. So, by not going to church because of another church member, is this God's fault? No!

Does the Scriptures not teach us about building our relationships and character with one another? Yes!

The seven descriptions that define our pattern for each church is what Jesus is pointing out to John. In other words, we all are accountable and these seven points reveal our individual and church family's character.

Major, thank you for sharing and discussing Revelation with us. I have to be honest, Revelation and Romans are challenging in my personal studies and God gives me the zeal to continue learning.

I have a question for you. If we all chose not to go to church, would Jesus have given His Word to John regarding the seven churches?

God bless you, brother, and Merry Christmas.
IMO...……….NO!

The fact that the Seven Churches are introduced in the very 1st chapter of God's revealing of the future tells us how important the church is to all believers.

The facts are clear and IMO are demonstrated in every facet of life.

If a man wants to be a doctor...……………..he must go to a university to learn how to do it.
If a man wants to be a car mechanic...…..he must go to a school to learn how to do it.
If a man wants to be a football player......he must play football with others to learn how to be successful.
If a man wants to be a lawyer......………......he must go to school to be successful.
If a man wants to be a DUCK......……...……..he must go and live down at the "pond" where the ducks hang out.

IF....."IF" a man has chosen to be a Christian and follow Christ …...…. He must then hang out where Jesus hangs out.

WHY????

It is very important that we hear the word of God. The Bible says, in Isaiah 55:11.........
"So shall My word be which goes forth from My mouth. It shall not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it," .

Some will use the excuse of...…"I do not go to church because it is full of hypocrites".

My response to that excuse is...…"THEN WHAT IS ONE MORE GOING TO HURT".

NO!. My answer is that SAVED, BORN AGIAN people want to go to church and are there because they are saved!

Those who refuse to attend church and worship the Lord Jesus are actually NOT saved. Are they religious? Probably!
Do they KNOW about the Jesus Christ. YES they do. But know about Jesus does not and has never saved anyone.

I know a lot about NASCAR racing and I attended more races than I can remember. My favorite is Bristol Tenn. I did that because I loved the racing.

I go to church because I love the Lord Jesus.

Yes, I know that there are liberals and "thinkers (?) who say that Jesus lives in us so He is where we are no matter where we are. That is true but it is also rationalization to do not do something we are told to do in the Scriptures.

That is the same kind of thinking that says if I stand in my garage I am then a "CAR".

The fact is......going to church does not save anyone or keep anyone saved, anymore than keeping the Law saves us. However, it does mean and does show the world around us that we are in fact saved and we want to be in a place with other saved people who have the same faith in Christ that we have.

IMO, That is exactly why the wither of Hebrews said in Hebrews 10:25...…......
"Do Not forsake the assembling of ourselves, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. not neglecting--as some habitually do--to meet together, but encouraging one another, and doing this all the more since you can see the day of Christ approaching."

Blessing to you and thanks for the comments.

Please know that I AM NOT A BIBLE scholar. I am only trying to share with our friends here on the site what God has allowed to learn over many years of study. My health over the last 10 years or so has severely limited my ability to travel and teach so doing that here has been a blessing for me.

However......What I post does NOT mean that I am correct and anyone can disagree with me and discussion is the root of learning when it is done in a loving, civil and Christian atmosphere.
 
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Im going to voice my opinion on something that was posted. I do love my church, and attend irregularly because Im not getting what I need. As my search for another congregation more suitable to me needs continues, I am finding more of the same. Churches in my area are filled with married couples even older than myself. At 55 Im not finding any singles my age, singles groups, or singles events at any church within a two hour drive. The groups I am finding with singles are Celebrate Recovery, AA, and NA which are not for me. As a more than 20 year recovered alcoholic I know NOT to put myself in a place with those whom still continue to fall. I know that the temptation for me is too great, so I avoid situations that might cause me personally to sin. That in itself says a lot about the communities in which I live. Where are young Christian adults going (I see so few in church)? Where are all the saved singles? The middle aged couples? Unless I attend a huge church with a concert like show complete with lights, smoke, and a full band, Im not finding them. What does that say to the world around us?

Now for my opinion. I will disagree; going to church today does not always show the world we are saved anymore than going to a doctor shows we are healthy. What shows we are a member of the body of Christ is how we live our lives, how we treat others, and the love we choose to share freely. Ive been to a lot of churches that would rather dissect me apart into pieces highlighting my sins, than show me the love and fellowship I seek. Without charity, love, and hope what are we? An empty church is still an empty building if it cannot be filled with love to glorify our Father in heaven. Its like church has become a business. That is a very sad fact being Ive lived in 11 states, and have visited far too many than any one person ever should. Its really skewed my views on church, and what was intended in our holy scriptures.

I am disagreeing with the love of Christ in me, as brother Major posted. We don't always have to agree, but we are commanded to love one another.

From my personal perspectives I have witnessed a great deal of support from the body of Christ on these very boards. The moderators here are awesome! I have found internet fellowship, a place to ask for prayer, a place where I can find those in need of prayer, a place to study the word of God, a place to discuss it, all within the comfort of my own home. I think in todays world accurate Christian sites are showing others what the body of Christ is all about, just as much as the churches around that actually get it.

Peace, and love to all reading...
 
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