RIP: Church Music

[Major]

Yes, agreeing on the basics, amen! Regarding disagreements, though Major always thinks he's cute, I disagree because I'm cuter. Otherwise, I'll take my marbles and go home!

lol!!!

I was never any good at marbles. My fingers were too big I think.

Anyway, just to be totally clear on my thoughts......IT is not my opinion but it is historical fact that the decline of a culture can be directly tied to the decline of music. It is not an insignificant thing.

So then as a Christian if we follow the Word of God and according to Ephesians 2:1-2 there is a “spirit of disobedience” in every unsaved person. The power Satan gives to a Madonna, Justin Bieber and other musicians is real.
God’s people must guard themselves from the power of music that is promoted by Satan.
We must always be on guard so as to not allow the world to come into the church and that is exactly what we do when we bring in worldly music.

Some will say that since music is amoral, any kind of music is acceptable in church. However, I have repeatedly and firmly said that rock & roll music (and its musical cousins such as soft rock, pop/rock, country rock, and easy jazz) is “unavoidably associated” with immorality and closely imitates the world’s music system.
The fact that Changing the lyrics and substituting Christian words by musicians cannot remove that stigma but that is exactly what the church has allowed in the namee of......."Can'nt we all just get along"

There are those who argue the old hymns are a tangible link to our past. This is certainly true, and here is the key to understanding........for these hymns have surely withstood the test of time because those songs of the old hymns, too, are rich in Christian doctrine. The lyrics give magnificent instruction in sound Christian theology instead of repetitious rantings.

Now......No one has to agree with me. These are personal thoughs based on real time observations.

 

[Major]

I would not be able to handle such a thread. I would get banned from the forums for my LACK of composure. HAHA.
I take false doctrine very seriously... and the WRATH and ANGER I feel towards these things is something I have to be
very careful with. I believe God has granted me great mercy and wisdom in being able to discern certain things.

So... If you decide to post another thread... I will have to read from a distance and with a muzzle and handcuffs. HAHAHA.
That is cause for my green friend to show up.

You would do fine. We need the thoughts and insights from people such as you. You are intelligent and certainly born again.

I promise you that there is NO ONE this forum who takes Bible doctrine more seriously than me.

 

[In Awe of Him]

You would do fine.

There are three topics I have banned myself from ... well four if you count the one about eternal security.

1. Pentecostalism
2. WoF movement.
3. Catholicism

I know myself Major. It will be to everyone's benefit to have the LITTLE LAMB remain JOYFUL and SILENT. HAHA.

 

[Major]

There are three topics I have banned myself from ... well four if you count the one about eternal security.

1. Pentecostalism
2. WoF movement.
3. Catholicism

I know myself Major. It will be to everyone's benefit to have the LITTLE LAMB remain JOYFUL and SILENT. HAHA.

I understand sis. Everyone has "hot" buttons.

I have actually done the study and work and produced two study guides for my church on "Cults".
Several years ago I was part of a 3 man team in Florida under the direction of the Florida Baptist Convention who went from church to church teaching how to spot and understand a cult. I was in centrall Fl.

In your list, #2 is actually included in #1.

 

[Big Moose]

Ok... so.... I feel the need to have "closing remarks" HAHA. ( not to close the thread but to close my thoughts ).

Here is what I have gleaned from this thread.

There is a generational divide in the church... I think us baby boomers are perhaps the majority at this time... and I absolutely agree that our elderly population must be respected and honoured. ( I have said this several times in my comments ).

There is also a difference in DEFINITION of what Worship is. This has been my concern. That some people are referring to and labelling Worship as something it is NOT. In my humble opinion... there is a clear biblical definition of what WORSHIP is. How we go about entering into a place of REVERENCE for God is optional (provided it does not go against scripture). That is where music style comes to play... old hymns vs. contemporary music. This is a PREFERENCE and will be guided by prior church experience = what people grew up with and were exposed to.

The abuse or misrepresentation of ANYTHING in Christianity is NOT counted as valid. Therefore... I agree there is much going on in this present day that falls into this category.... but my caution is this.... Do NOT confuse bad doctrine and teachings with music... and that is the difficult part to discern.

I have appreciated being part of this conversation. I have acquired a greater sensitivity to the older generation ( which probably includes myself. HAHA ).

I learned Worship from the contemporary music perspective... and so this is my preference and comfort in a church setting. I am 100% comfortable with this.

Anyone who approaches GOD with a pure heart and REVERENCE... with the mind to PRAISE and HONOUR GOD is participating in
Worship. If the old hymns bring you there... that is good.... If contemporary worship music brings you there... that is good. It is all PLEASING to GOD.

and that.... is my little two cents worth.

That was worth way more than 2 cents!

 

[forgiven61]

There is a generational divide in the church... I think us baby boomers are perhaps the majority at this time... and I absolutely agree that our elderly population must be respected and honoured. ( I have said this several times in my comments ).

you got one part right a gen gap

Anyone who approaches GOD with a pure heart and REVERENCE... with the mind to PRAISE and HONOUR GOD is participating in
Worship. If the old hymns bring you there... that is good.... If contemporary worship music brings you there... that is good. It is all PLEASING to GOD.

and that.... is my little two cents worth

agreed and that is about a dollar worth lol

 

[synthplayer]

If I was going to try to write a song for my wife, I would try to write something grand. I would attempt to write something that would really touch her heart. There would be references that only she and I would get, but even an outsider would realize the depth of my love for her. It would require a lot of thought, and a lot of re-writes. We've spent many years together, and I'd want to recall the good times and the bad and how we stood together through it all. That would be necessary in order for me to feel it worthy of her.

Or, I could write:

You're so cool
You're so cool
You're so cool
I'm glad you're my wife.

Which approach do you think she would appreciate more?

 

[Lanolin]

I thought I would chime in tho I don't have much new to add -

I didn't grow up in church so wasn't aware what a sea change it would have been for new music to come in church. By the time I got there, there was no choir, just a band and rock type music was the way to worship with the lyrics changed, but it was sensual rather than spiritual.

One song everyone kept singing was 'I am coming back to the heart of worship, where its all about you, Jesus, I'm sorry for the thing I've made it' and I did NOT understand why the whole congregation was singing very personal song with 'I' statements we were encouraged to be singing as a corporate, unless it was just a solo performance piece for the vocalist in the pulpit. I found it sort of hypocritical that this song, is the one that many churches like to sing! Unless there had been a real problem in the first place....

There was a time in the 90s when bands were doing albums 'unplugged' but in churches they were going the other way with full concert regalia crowding out everything, so it seemed like a rock concert every week. I don't quite understand that.

If we are singing together it's not about who's on 'stage, but lifting up our voices in praise in unison, and we can't do that when someone's sort of taken over everything.

I enjoy music, but I got very confused about my first exposure to Christian Contemporary. I thought it would be gospel and spiritual, but instead it seemed as earthly as ordinary music. Some of it was rock, some of it was house or even trance, just with different lyrics. As someone who was tentatively coming to Christ then, I wasn't sure what to make of this huge festival where teens moshed and raised their hands up but just didn't drink. lol. Are people worshipping the music or are they worshipping the musicians or are they worshipping God? What are they chanting?

If I was going to try to write a song for my wife, I would try to write something grand. I would attempt to write something that would really touch her heart. There would be references that only she and I would get, but even an outsider would realize the depth of my love for her. It would require a lot of thought, and a lot of re-writes. We've spent many years together, and I'd want to recall the good times and the bad and how we stood together through it all. That would be necessary in order for me to feel it worthy of her.

Or, I could write:

You're so cool
You're so cool
You're so cool
I'm glad you're my wife.

Which approach do you think she would appreciate more?

Is it just vain repetitions?

 

[Lanolin]

Scripture and Song vs Hillsong...which do you prefer.

I think there are some good and bad in each, some very worthy hymns and some clunkers that I really am not sure about. I don't have any say about what songs are sung in church tho, and there's now restrictions on what can be sung in schools.

Sunday school songs, however, seem untouched. Does everyone know the Sneeze Song.

 

[bobinfaith]

Scripture and Song vs Hillsong...which do you prefer. I think there are some good and bad in each, some very worthy hymns and some clunkers that I really am not sure about. I don't have any say about what songs are sung in church tho, and there's now restrictions on what can be sung in schools.
Sunday school songs, however, seem untouched. Does everyone know the Sneeze Song.

Hi Lanolin;

Is the Sneeze Song for little kids by Bryant Oden?

Bob

 

[In Awe of Him]

That was worth way more than 2 cents!

I do the same with laundry... I stuff the machines and call it a load. HAHAHA.

 

[crossnote]

IT is not my opinion but it is historical fact that the decline of a culture can be directly tied to the decline of music. It is not an insignificant thing.

Seeking the root of the problem, I wonder what causes the decline of music?

 

[Major]

Seeking the root of the problem, I wonder what causes the decline of music?

No idea.

 

[Lanolin]

Hi Lanolin;

Is the Sneeze Song for little kids by Bryant Oden?

Bob

I don't know who it's by

It's fun to sing.
Hymns can be hard to understand and a bit complicated, though there's still room for them in churches I note. I like simple songs.

 

[forgiven61]

One song everyone kept singing was 'I am coming back to the heart of worship, where its all about you, Jesus, I'm sorry for the thing I've made it' and I did NOT understand why the whole congregation was singing very personal song with 'I' statements we were encouraged to be singing as a corporate, unless it was just a solo performance piece for the vocalist in the pulpit. I found it sort of hypocritical that this song, is the one that many churches like to sing! Unless there had been a real problem in the first place....

it s a older song with a great message .the worship team had took there eyes off Christ and it soon became about the worship leader and worship team. he then came to his senses and pinned the song. its a very beautiful son with a great message not heard it in years

 

[forgiven61]

we are all Apostolic Christians.

i am just a Christian saved by grace through faith

 

[bobinfaith]

Seeking the root of the problem, I wonder what causes the decline of music?

Hello crossnote;

That's a great question for the Church in these times. We've had so many contributions, opinions and objectives posted in this thread. The traditional hymns have remained timeless in many of our worship services today.

Church hymns don't decline but the hymnals update every 20 years by adding former contemporary praise and worship of the late 1970s and 1980s to it's list of hymns. For example, Give Thanks and As The Deer.

In the late 1960s and 1970s worship music grew even more in the 1980s to today's mid 2020s with studio recordings, the experimentation of various musical instruments and electronics.

Despite the worlds changes, advances or declines of worship music, God is not moved and remains constant by inhabiting our praises, hearts of worship in a setting that glorifies Him.

God bless you all.

​

 

[crossnote]

Hello crossnote;

That's a great question for the Church in these times. We've had so many contributions, opinions and objectives posted in this thread. The traditional hymns have remained timeless in many of our worship services today.

Church hymns don't decline but the hymnals update every 20 years by adding former contemporary praise and worship of the late 1970s and 1980s to it's list of hymns. For example, Give Thanks and As The Deer.

In the late 1960s and 1970s worship music grew even more in the 1980s to today's mid 2020s with studio recordings, the experimentation of various musical instruments and electronics.

Despite the worlds changes, advances or declines of worship music, God is not moved and remains constant by inhabiting our praises, hearts of worship in a setting that glorifies Him.

God bless you all.

Bob, I wasn't thinking hymnals, that would be just a symptom of a deeper root of the problem.

 

[bobinfaith]

There are those who argue the old hymns are a tangible link to our past. This is certainly true, and here is the key to understanding........for these hymns have surely withstood the test of time because those songs of the old hymns, too, are rich in Christian doctrine. The lyrics give magnificent instruction in sound Christian theology instead of repetitious rantings. Now......No one has to agree with me. These are personal thoughs based on real time observations.

Seeking the root of the problem, I wonder what causes the decline of music?

Hello crossnote;

That's a great question for the Church in these times. We've had so many contributions, opinions and objectives posted in this thread. The traditional hymns have remained timeless in many of our worship services today. Church hymns don't decline but the hymnals update every 20 years by adding former contemporary praise and worship of the late 1970s and 1980s to it's list of hymns. For example, Give Thanks and As The Deer. In the late 1960s and 1970s worship music grew even more in the 1980s to today's mid 2020s with studio recordings, the experimentation of various musical instruments and electronics. Despite the worlds changes, advances or declines of worship music, God is not moved and remains constant by inhabiting our praises, hearts of worship in a setting that glorifies Him.
God bless you all.

Bob, I wasn't thinking hymnals, that would be just a symptom of a deeper root of the problem.

Hello crossnote;

Your question was a response to Major's comment above which I agreed was a good suggestive summary of the decline of music. I only wanted to add to the discussion with my additional thoughts.

If you're weren't thinking hymnals and feel that would be a deeper root of the problem, that's fine, brother.

But I am curious. How would hymnals be a symptom of a deeper root of the problem?

God bless you, brother.

 

[Major]

Hello crossnote;

Your question was a response to Major's comment above which I agreed was a good suggestive summary of the decline of music. I only wanted to add to the discussion with my additional thoughts.

If you're weren't thinking hymnals and feel that would be a deeper root of the problem, that's fine, brother.

But I am curious. How would hymnals be a symptom of a deeper root of the problem?

God bless you, brother.

Good question!