RIP: Church Music

synthplayer said:
Music sets the tone - in all situations. Next time you watch a television program, concentrate on the music score. Listen to the overall tone when it's a sincere, tender moment. Then, listen when there's a confrontation. I could go on and on. (Sometimes I think I hear circus music when I'm watching a show about politicians) My nephew is a very accomplished musician. When he was still in his twenties, he listened to a music that had Christian lyrics, but the tone of the music was incredibly hard core. The kind of hard core music I'm talking about almost always has satanic lyrics when it is utilized in the secular world. I remember thinking how the two just didn't fit together. It would be like a loving husband growling through clenched teeth, "I love you, honey" to his wife. I asked myself, doesn't tone matter, too? As I mentioned above, my father was a pastor, and my mother was in charge of the music program. Occasionally, my father would have an alter call at the end of some services. On those occasions, my mother would play the piano and she'd play a song that fit the scene. She'd play songs that concerned surrender and repentance. She'd play softly while the pastor urged the congregants to repent , come to the altar, and surrender their will to Jesus. I believe that the music had an impact in those moments.
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Hello synthplayer;

I experience what you shared. Even during a commercial a catchy musical tune gets my attention. God does not bless ignorance, therefore, He will give us discernment and wisdom of light and hidden darkness in Christian music.

God bless you, synthplayer.
 
bobinfaith said:
two non Christian music, which is worse, country music or rock? I
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i did for a reason due to many old timers feel country music with words about getting drunk cheating on the wife etc is ok . compared to rock music lots of the rock groups sand love ballads... i might listen to a old country song along the way i do like Johnny cash daughter seringing Tennessee flat top . i still like some my old classic foreigner juke box hero yes i love the music part guitars playing . its been interesting discussion old school has been put up against new school ..i like what i like lol
 
In Awe of Him said:
I'm the one who is in disagreement with a large portion of what is being said here... and I will testify that this has been a very respectful discussion... I am always delightfully and pleasantly impressed with how people talk to each other In these forums.
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Hello In Awe of Him;

I wouldn't get wrapped up with agreeing or disagreeing. Just enjoy the show (love and fellowship!)

Overall, it's been a very good and respectful discussion, and if it arrives at a disagreeable point, take the time to listen to other's views, not necessarily having to respond to each one.

Most important, when time to walk away allow room for learning more and from each other, giving glory to Christ.

God bless you, sister.
 
In Awe of Him said:
This seems to be the common "thought" from those who are NOT in favour of contemporary Christian music. I have already clarified that I believe the problem with the mega churches is that they teach a false doctrine. ( Yes... this is a blanket statement ).

Can you or SOMEONE explain to me... what the purpose of corporate worship is?? Or is that a term that only the contemporary Worship camp has coined??

What is the emotion that is being manipulated? I'm still not clear as to what people are debating about here. I say this because I am the biggest fan of contemporary Worship music... but for the life of me... I do NOT see the "emotional manipulation/damage" anyone is referring to.

Is the concept of Worshipping together with fellow believers not meant to bring each individual CLOSER to the heart of FATHER GOD?

There is something I am not getting here... Someone please help me to understand how one can claim that certain music played in church causes one to be DECEIVED??? I mean all due respect... and it is not my intention to argue... I am truly at a loss to understand what some are saying here.

*** Edit... I think part of why I am not understanding what is truly being stated here is due to the fact that I am not aware of what is being played in churches today. Can someone Major or anyone else following this thread give me some examples of the type of songs that are causing problems?? I really have the heart to understand here... and if I am wrong in how I feel about the matter... I need to embrace the truth.
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Most of it has to do with what style of music each person likes. The older people grew up with only a piano or an organ as accompaniment to the congregation singing. They love the lyrics of the old hymns like In The Garden, How Great Thou Art, Amazing Grace and so on. Then they see on TV the contemporary services where they sing 20 stanzas of You Are Worthy over and over and it seems to them as it is mass hypnosis or manipulation of some sort, because they never experienced any thing like it. Such as just feeling the Spirit around them and enjoying it as long as you can. The times I remember feeling the Spirit all around be as a child was when the pastor had the congregation sing How Great Thou Art a second time, encouraging everyone to belt it out to shake the rafters, having us hold the notes at the end for 10 seconds or more to finish the song.
The older generation just see it as excessively repetitive singing the same three words over and over and over. I grew up with that generation of my parents so I understand it, though I like lots of the contemporary stuff too. But then, I like rock music too. Our church has this older generation element who are passing away now over the years. We have a piano and an organ in the sanctuary. We don't have an organist so it goes unused for decades now. But I know we could never get rid of it as feelings would be hurt. I would just as soon replace it with a drum set if it were my decision.

For the past 15 or so years I have been performing special music or sitting in for the pianist when she is away to do the congregational singing. I play acoustic guitar so it gives a different feel to the songs and the congregation is very supportive about it. My sons have performed with me a number of times with them playing drums and bass, (upright and electric). Now we have mixed in some contemporary songs, but I am very conscious of keeping enough of the old hymns in to keep from having grumbling. The biggest positive reactions I get are when we do the songs with a country flavor or southern gospel style. That is just what the majority likes. I understand this and appreciate it; I even like those styles too. But I would love to do some with rock flavor like Rattle by Elevation Worship. That, though, would not go over very well.

I don't know if this explains it for you at all, but I can go into more detail if you need.
 
Big Moose said:
I don't know if this explains it for you at all, but I can go into more detail if you need.
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Hello Big Moose.... Thank you for this WONDERFUL and heartfelt reply to my question. You have eloquently and articulately explained the dilemma that this thread brings out. I love your RESPECT for the church/congregation. Your heart shines through as caring and compassionate. This is a beautiful thing. You are showing a submission of yourself to the church.

What you have expressed is exactly what I have walked away with... however... your open attitude is more along the lines of someone who simply understands... this is about preference... with the knowledge that the older population of the church deserve the honour of being made comfortable and at peace when they attend the fellowships that many have attended all their lives. I think perhaps this new genre of Worship music is like a culture shock to some.

I know for myself... I did not grow up with the hymns... so my first introduction to church worship was straight into this contemporary stuff. It was a refreshing change and freedom after leaving the Catholic church.

God bless you Big Moose for your gentle heart and ability to see the bigger picture here. I believe your ATTITUDE is in itself an ACT of WORSHIP.
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello Major;

As I read your posts in this topic I have no agreeable or disagreeable determinations but taking the time to enjoy your thoughts and opinions regarding Christian music.

If we make determinations on opinions that can arrive at self motive or self serving, then I would hope to have discernment to decide if I want to continue in that direction of the conversation. Not so in this thread.

In this topic my self motive is to enjoy the conversation and other's opinions while serving to be an uplifter in fellowship. But I'm also interested as a musician who has served in the music ministry.

When I was much younger I had a dream to be a professional musician, travel the world and record. This exposed me to all genres of music, some I loved and some I didn't have an ear for. My self motive was for people to enjoy my music. It was about me.

In 1974 when I was led to serve God in the music ministry it was on a much smaller scale. As the years went by that smaller scale of playing every Sunday and other Christian venues actually gave me much more fulfillment serving God instead of playing on the world stage. This is my testimony.

In high school the acappella choir introduced and expanded my musical love, for example, Handel's Messiah. When we sang in the Church choir I became more familiar with traditional hymns. I love the traditional hymns for many are 100+ years old, Scriptural based and timeless.

The music ministry led me to other opportunities in ministry but came with lessons. These lessons are people, not the guitar, microphone, sound equipment or rehearsals. Co-existing with other people, personalities, getting along, life situations, praying, studying and then serving God during worship service on Sunday, giving our all in all for Him. This takes discipline and unfortunately, many Christian musicians stepped down, not because of God, but because they couldn't get along with the other.

Hello forgiven;

Of the two non Christian music, which is worse, country music or rock? I'll tell you the truth. When I first heard 1969's Okie From Muscogee by Merle Haggard, I enjoyed it and learned he came to Jesus later in his life. 1974's Thank God I'm a Country Bob by John Denver was a gifted musician and composer but wasn't saved and died in a plane crash.

I like both and when country or rock is transposed to Christian music can also be enjoyable. Aside from worship service, I have enjoyed country or rock praise music while driving long distance.

God bless you, both, brothers.

Bob
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Good thoughts and Iam on your side. I grew up on the 50's rock and roll and then came country rock. I liked he Rolling Stones etc.
My wife and I attended several rock concerts and many country ones as well.

However.....my only contention in this topic is the incorporation of those types of song into the Christian Worship service.

I submitt everyone that when we hear those songs we grew up on sung in church.....(Not lyrics but beat and rhythm) our minds take us bake to those days when those songs were new to us. Whether or not we admit it.......THAT is what they do.

That then is not worship but "reminiscing" and we worship looking forward to Christ!
 
In Awe of Him said:
That sounds like a people problem... NOT a music problem..... just saying... lol
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Yes and No. You see, it is the elderly who tithe and finance the church, any church. If and when the music program becomes to much modern contemporary, they leave or stop giving. That is not a people problem as much as it is a way to respond to something not liked.
 
Major said:
Yes and No. You see, it is the elderly who tithe and finance the church, any church. If and when the music program becomes to much modern contemporary, they leave or stop giving. That is not a people problem as much as it is a way to respond to something not liked.
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I am all for RESPECT and being sensitive to your audience. I absolutely agree that the elderly population NEED to be cared for and accommodated somewhat ( for lack of a better way of saying that ). Again... I am not familiar with how most churches do things.
The way you worded the statement seemed like an ULTIMATUM. If we don't get our way... we don't tithe and we aren't happy.
Surely there is a way to handle this situation... which you are most definitely familiar with.

I have enjoyed reading the posts in this thread... it gave me something to think about... and also solidified my own beliefs regarding worship.

As always.... a pleasure to talk to my BIG BROTHER. :D

I thought you were going to quote my SARCASTIC remark to you... HAHA...

**Edit... HAHA.... YOU did address it. and now I feel badly because you asked the question sincerely...
GOTTA LOVE ME... HAHAHA
 
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In Awe of Him said:
Major ... Do you really feel the need to ask me this question?? HAHA. Good GRIEF!!! ( that is my rolling eyeballs statement!! ) complimented with my favourite emoji that requires medical attention and no one seems to be caring for. :D

My favourite worship team of the second church I attended consisted of a keyboard and a violin. The sound that was made was a beautiful beautiful thing... and it brought me to heavenly places ( for lack of a better word ).

I have a hard time with the word manipulation and Worship. I have never experienced such a terrible thing.

I have never gone to church to be entertained.... and the only instruments I have seen at church are guitars... keyboards and the blessed violin.

Thank you for taking the time to address me.
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I do not know you well enough to not ask. That is kind of like not explaining the gospel to someone you do not know thinking they have already heard it.

May dear sister, may I say to you that Spiritual Manipulation has been used in the church since there was a church. Spiritual manipulation is a technique used by some abusive churches and cults to control individuals and acquire gain, all the while giving the impression that their teachings are based on the Bible.

The practice of isolating “proof texts” and “cherry picking” verses to persuade the uninformed that their interpretation is right, even to the extent of claiming they alone have “the truth” and everybody else is wrong. Some have even altered the Bible and produced their own translation to support their religious bias.

Have you ever had During a conversation between Christians, someone might say, "The Lord has told me that . . . ." ?????
This is one of the classic forms of MANIULATION.

This statement essentially shuts down the conversation because it implies that, since God has spoken a word, there can’t be any further discussion. don’t be fooled by this trick; it is a form of spiritual manipulation.

Or another is when a preacher says, "Sow into my ministry, and God will repay you. Sow, and you will reap! God is no man’s debtor."

Could such preaching simply be an exploitive appeal for money? Is the preacher trying to influence people for his own financial advantage? If so, it is spiritual manipulation.

Now the facts are Contemporary Worship music can move and manipulate emotions, even shape belief. Corporate worship is neurological and physiological.

Martin Luther in 1585 insisted that music’s ability to move and manipulate made it a singular, divine gift. “Next to the Word of God,” Luther wrote, “only music deserves being extolled as the mistress and governess of the feelings of the human heart. … Even the Holy Spirit honors music as a tool of his work.”
 
In Awe of Him said:
I am all for RESPECT and being sensitive to your audience. I absolutely agree that the elderly population NEED to be cared for and accommodated somewhat ( for lack of a better way of saying that ). Again... I am not familiar with how most churches do things.
The way you worded the statement seemed like an ULTIMATUM. If we don't get our way... we don't tithe and we aren't happy.
Surely there is a way to handle this situation... which you are most definitely familiar with.

I have enjoyed reading the posts in this thread... it gave me something to think about... and also solidified my own beliefs regarding worship.

As always.... a pleasure to talk to my BIG BROTHER. :D

I thought you were going to quote my SARCASTIC remark to you... HAHA...
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You are correct.......when the elderly voice their opinions to church leadership and that opinion falls in death ears then your comment of......
"If we don't get our way... we don't tithe and we aren't happy."

Itis however really not a matter of getting our way as much as it is........"why are you changing what has worked here for 100 years"?
 
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