Salvation is by Grace through Faith.

It seems to me that you are placing a LOT of emphasis on "FAITHING coming from a Greek word of "Pisteuo".

Then you stated.......
"Knowing Jesus isn't a prerequisite to fulfilling pisteuo and continually surrendered life. "

You are speaking to us in a high level of deep understanding so allow me to bring this back down to the "country boy" level.

So, let me ask you this question based on the following scenario from Acts 10:44-48. Now pay attention to the text. ........
"While Peter was still speaking these words, (what words?)'????

Acts 10:43.........
"Or Him all the prophets bear witness that through His/Jesus Christ name everyone WHO BELIEVES in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

Back to vs44.......
"was still speaking these words, the HOLY SPIRIT fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

vs45,......................
" And all the circumcised "BELIEVERS" (past tense and there's that pesty word that starts with a "B") who had come with Peter were amazed, (Why?) ???

Because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also.

vs46.........
"For (or becasue) they were hearinhg them speaking in tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered in verse 47........

"Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit JUST AS WE DID"
( can he?)

Vs48, .........
"And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days."

So, my question then is .... what did these new converts do in order to receive the Holy Spirit? They "BELIEVED."
And notice they received the Holy Spirit "BEFORE" they were water baptized.

Now, what is the Greek word for "believing" at vs43 and the Greek word for "believers" at vs45?

Great question Major, the Greek doesn't have the words believe, believer, and believing in their language. Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English language, and then mistranslated back out and stamped onto the Greek. So when asking an English source what the word "believe' is in in Greek , it will tell you pisteuo. The Greek only has pisteuo, continually moving towards something, and Apisteuo the reverse action continually moving away from something. They don't acknowledge a state of being where one is in a neutral or only believing. Makes it extra difficult to explain this.
 
When we all begin our walk by the Father calling us out, we don't have the spirit of Christ in us yet. He is not in us , and we are not in Him yet. Rom 8:9 As a result of this early state of being, He is none of ours (yet). And because Christ is none of ours, His word Cannot be ours, the promises in His word cannot be ours either.. I stand on the fact we can only connect with Christ by a continually surrendered life, including decisions supporting such surrendered life.
Could you please explain how one goes from the non bolded portion of the above post to the bolded portion?
 
Great question Major, the Greek doesn't have the words believe, believer, and believing in their language. Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English language, and then mistranslated back out and stamped onto the Greek. So when asking an English source what the word "believe' is in in Greek , it will tell you pisteuo. The Greek only has pisteuo, continually moving towards something, and Apisteuo the reverse action continually moving away from something. They don't acknowledge a state of being where one is in a neutral or only believing. Makes it extra difficult to explain this.
While there are plenty of people who are atheists or agnostic, who don’t really believe anything supernaturally now a days, this was not the case back then. Virtually everyone in that time period believed in supernatural beings and worshiped their “gods.”

Therefore when one understands the word "pistis" as meaning a vow to faithfulness or a vow to covenant loyalty one can see in that culture how important that was. To claim Jesus as your Lord and King to the exclusion of all others, was then a change of allegiance from your “god’s” to the one true God, the God of Israel and to pledge allegiance to His anointed King Jesus and to the His coming Kingdom!

It seems to me that was the reason why Jesus used the "Agapy" word to ask Peter is he really, really loved Him!
 
Thanks major.

Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father calls them. Thats what i would consider the first step in a relationship with Christ.

When we all begin our walk by the Father calling us out, we don't have the spirit of Christ in us yet. He is not in us , and we are not in Him yet. Rom 8:9 As a result of this early state of being, He is none of ours (yet). And because Christ is none of ours, His word Cannot be ours, the promises in His word cannot be ours either.. I stand on the fact we can only connect with Christ by a continually surrendered life, including decisions supporting such surrendered life. This Faithing response will cause God to accept us into the salvation process, test us in the parable of the sower, through the grafting process, "THEN" , He seals His Spirit in us making Christ, His Word, and His promises ours to stand on. When we become this finished product, i do see Gods word as something that can make our Faithing stronger. But instead of reading other saints epistles, we should spend the large portion of our time writing our own.

Thanks for your kind discussion.

Agreed.

I think that it would help all believers if they would understand that that freedom has already been purchased for us. It has already come. Christ has completed the work. It is for freedom that Christ set us free . Yet as we grow in our personal relationship with Christ, we all struggle with three key areas:
the flesh,
the world, and
the devil.
Christ has already provided the ultimate liberty through His covenant with us. He overcame all these things. However, the manner in which that freedom manifests in our personal lives is contingent upon the degree of our surrender to Him.

You said..........
" When we become this finished product.......".

It is no big deal to debate but IMHO we will not become a Finished Product" until we are dead, or Raptured. THEN we will receive a glorified body.
 
Agreed.

I think that it would help all believers if they would understand that that freedom has already been purchased for us. It has already come. Christ has completed the work. It is for freedom that Christ set us free . Yet as we grow in our personal relationship with Christ, we all struggle with three key areas:
the flesh,
the world, and
the devil.
Christ has already provided the ultimate liberty through His covenant with us. He overcame all these things. However, the manner in which that freedom manifests in our personal lives is contingent upon the degree of our surrender to Him.

You said..........
" When we become this finished product.......".

It is no big deal to debate but IMHO we will not become a Finished Product" until we are dead, or Raptured. THEN we will receive a glorified body.
And there YOU go! lol
 
Could you please explain how one goes from the non bolded portion of the above post to the bolded portion?
Yes, After we are called out by the Father, we respond by a turning from our way to the direction of the caller in our mind.
We then respond or take our first step towards Him by making a genuine surrendering of our lives to Him. Then we start to make decisions in life that support the fact we acknowledge our life as His and not ours anymore. Decisions that slowly but surely start to serve Him instead of ourselves.

Here are some prayers that we can start and end our day with.

God i offer myself to thee. To have with me and build with me as thou wills. Relieve me of the bondage of self that i may better do thy will. Take away my difficulties that victory over them may bare witness to those i would help of thy power, thy love, and thy way of life. May i do thy will always. Amen

My creator, i am now willing that you should have all of me the good and the bad. I am now willing that you should remove from me every single defect of character that stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength as i go out from here to do thy bidding.
 
While there are plenty of people who are atheists or agnostic, who don’t really believe anything supernaturally now a days, this was not the case back then. Virtually everyone in that time period believed in supernatural beings and worshiped their “gods.”

Therefore when one understands the word "pistis" as meaning a vow to faithfulness or a vow to covenant loyalty one can see in that culture how important that was. To claim Jesus as your Lord and King to the exclusion of all others, was then a change of allegiance from your “god’s” to the one true God, the God of Israel and to pledge allegiance to His anointed King Jesus and to the His coming Kingdom!

It seems to me that was the reason why Jesus used the "Agape" word to ask Peter is he really, really loved Him!

Yes Jesus singled out Peter even after peter denied Him 3 times.
Jesus asked Peter twice "Do you love me Peter" "Agape", ( The highest form of love, a Godly love) Peter the answers Him back " yes Lord, you know i love you" "phileo" a lower, friendship level of love. Then Jesus asked Peter the third time, "Do you love me Peter" "Phileo". Jesus came down to his level of love and then built the church on him. Phileo is where we get the Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love.
 
Agreed.

I think that it would help all believers if they would understand that that freedom has already been purchased for us. It has already come. Christ has completed the work. It is for freedom that Christ set us free . Yet as we grow in our personal relationship with Christ, we all struggle with three key areas:
the flesh,
the world, and
the devil.
Christ has already provided the ultimate liberty through His covenant with us. He overcame all these things. However, the manner in which that freedom manifests in our personal lives is contingent upon the degree of our surrender to Him.

You said..........
" When we become this finished product.......".

It is no big deal to debate but IMHO we will not become a Finished Product" until we are dead, or Raptured. THEN we will receive a glorified body.

You're right about that, but i was referring to a finished product here on earth.

A continually surrendered life is NT Faith and faithing. The more we give to Him the more He takes. The more He has, the more the world, flesh, and the devil play a part in us.
 
What is meant by a state of ‘only believing’?
I take that to mean only ‘believing about’.
If so, I would think we all agree.

Only "believing" in what Christ did, said, and promises will avail nothing. That state of being is only communicated in the English language not the Greek. The Greek language doesn't acknowledge that state of being. In the Greek language, we don't fulfill pisteuo as it relates to the living God , until we perform a specific act, based upon a specific belief, sustained by a specific kind of confidense. The Greek doesn't allow work and effort to be separated from NT Faith and faithing. Only the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing allow that, which is error.
 
You're right about that, but i was referring to a finished product here on earth.

A continually surrendered life is NT Faith and faithing. The more we give to Him the more He takes. The more He has, the more the world, flesh, and the devil play a part in us.

Maybe it is just me, but I am having a problem with the continual usage of the word "Faithing" and a "Continually surrendered Life" that you are using.....not that there is anything wrong with it but it seems to me that is what we all as Christians should be doing all the time.

When a lost sinner puts their trust and confidence in Jesus Christ and they by faith, trust in His redemptive work, and understand that their sins are not just covered anymore, they are removed forever, because of what Christ did at Calvary, they become born from above. The Spirit of God comes into their life and He will work them and mold them into the being He wants them to be, not what man thinks you should be, but what He wants them to be.

That is what I teach and have been taught. You are now using the word...."FAITHING". Is that what you are referring to or is it meaning something else?
 
Only "believing" in what Christ did, said, and promises will avail nothing. That state of being is only communicated in the English language not the Greek. The Greek language doesn't acknowledge that state of being. In the Greek language, we don't fulfill pisteuo as it relates to the living God , until we perform a specific act, based upon a specific belief, sustained by a specific kind of confidense. The Greek doesn't allow work and effort to be separated from NT Faith and faithing. Only the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing allow that, which is error.

I hear what you are saying but I AM NOT A GREEK and do not speak and read the Greek. (I did study it many years ago but I hated it).

You said............
" The Greek doesn't allow work and effort to be separated from NT Faith and faithing. Only the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing allow that, which is error."

Are you in a round about way trying to say that "Work and efforts" are somehow involved in our salvation????

It seems to me that that is the focus of you using the word "Pisteuo" repeatedly. Please help me to understand if you are trying to tell all of us that we must be obedient in all things to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If we love Him we will obey His commandments. This is referring to the law of the Spirit not the law of Moses. We must go and live holy lives and walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

Are you saying that If we continue to commit sin, we will be vomited out of the body of Christ and loose our salvation therefore our salvation depends on a change of heart away from a life of sin and dedicated to living a holy life fully surrendered to Jesus Christ. ??????????????
 
Maybe it is just me, but I am having a problem with the continual usage of the word "Faithing" and a "Continually surrendered Life" that you are using.....not that there is anything wrong with it but it seems to me that is what we all as Christians should be doing all the time.

When a lost sinner puts their trust and confidence in Jesus Christ and they by faith, trust in His redemptive work, and understand that their sins are not just covered anymore, they are removed forever, because of what Christ did at Calvary, they become born from above. The Spirit of God comes into their life and He will work them and mold them into the being He wants them to be, not what man thinks you should be, but what He wants them to be.

That is what I teach and have been taught. You are now using the word...."FAITHING". Is that what you are referring to or is it meaning something else?

Then your ready to discuss the salvation process or journey. If we agree on what true Nt faith and faithing are, lets talk about the true salvation process.

Faithing is the word the English language should have had for the translators to translate pisteuo into the English. The words believe, believing, and believer are mistranslations.

You want to start? Give your understanding of what has to happen in the salvation process and what order it must happen to recieve the Spirit of Christ. Then ill give you mine, or do you want me to go first?
 
I hear what you are saying but I AM NOT A GREEK and do not speak and read the Greek. (I did study it many years ago but I hated it).

You said............
" The Greek doesn't allow work and effort to be separated from NT Faith and faithing. Only the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing allow that, which is error."

Are you in a round about way trying to say that "Work and efforts" are somehow involved in our salvation????

It seems to me that that is the focus of you using the word "Pisteuo" repeatedly. Please help me to understand if you are trying to tell all of us that we must be obedient in all things to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If we love Him we will obey His commandments. This is referring to the law of the Spirit not the law of Moses. We must go and live holy lives and walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

Are you saying that If we continue to commit sin, we will be vomited out of the body of Christ and loose our salvation therefore our salvation depends on a change of heart away from a life of sin and dedicated to living a holy life fully surrendered to Jesus Christ. ??????????????
How my times did Christ say "have courage"? Courage takes work and effort. Pisteuo means a continually surrendered life, wouldn't a continually surrendered life take work and effort. Choosing to serve Him by the surrendered life takes work and effort.

Christianity is 95 % courage, 4% endurance, and 1% everything else.
 
How my times did Christ say "have courage"? Courage takes work and effort. Pisteuo means a continually surrendered life, wouldn't a continually surrendered life take work and effort. Choosing to serve Him by the surrendered life takes work and effort.

Christianity is 95 % courage, 4% endurance, and 1% everything else.
Faith is 100% Jesus...0% us

Galatians 2:20 (KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
 
Faith is 100% Jesus...0% us

Galatians 2:20 (KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Galatians says "i am crucified with Jesus"! How is that fulfilled? By a continually surrendered life, living a life inspired by such surrender.

Without checking ,i think this is the passage that half the translations say " Faith in the Son of God", and the other half has "Faith of the Son of God". The word Faith in this passage is the noun Pistis in the Greek. Not the verb Pisteuo. So we do live by the noun (commitment) to the Father by His Son Jesus Christ. But their is a correct application of Faith, "faithing" a verb, something we must be called to do and choose to do.

Grace is 100% Jesus, Faith is 100% how we respond to that unmerited favor.

And there's only one correct response that meets the condition to recieve His Spirit in us.
 
How my times did Christ say "have courage"? Courage takes work and effort. Pisteuo means a continually surrendered life, wouldn't a continually surrendered life take work and effort. Choosing to serve Him by the surrendered life takes work and effort.

Christianity is 95 % courage, 4% endurance, and 1% everything else.

No argument from me but..........that responce again "seems" to me that you are saying that salvation requires ....your words ---
"Courage takes work and effort."

I am really not desiring to be argumentative but Actually......Christianity is not ........."Christianity is 95 % courage, 4% endurance, and 1% everything else."

Christianity is 100% CHRIST!
 
Galatians says "i am crucified with Jesus"! How is that fulfilled? By a continually surrendered life, living a life inspired by such surrender.
When one is crucified, the only thing that is fulfilled is one’s death, and that is done through our baptism into His death…

Romans 6:3-4
[3] Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [4] Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
 
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