Second Coming War and Rule of the King of kings.

D3vot3d2G0d said:
Thank you Major

Maybe chronological wasn't the right choice of a word.
It is said that the book of Job is the oldest book but it doesn't appear to fit in the first order. Yet from Genesis where supposedly Moses is the authour, historically we can verify some accuracy by rulers,pharaohs and events,even through Samuel,Kings and Chronicles but where does Job fit.
I wish I had a better understanding of ancient Jewish history to apply the word to what we know.

Were the seven days of creation 7 straight days, when carbon dating and multiple test date earth as older than 6000 yrs.Archeology dates fossils of never seen species ,such things as dinosaurs,etc. when we have zero record of such.
Some of the events ppl have confused by placing the timeline here or there then we have those that believe 70 AD is an event that already established the destruction of Israel and the second coming.

A statement by Paul is taken out of context and a whole event made by tying cherry picked scripture to make a doctrine or doctrines that are only a couple centuries old.

I believe what the word says and we can understand it by revelation of the HS,it's the placing the pieces of the puzzle that's hard ,especially if man interferes.

Hope this clarifies something....lol
I might be confused now...........lol
Click to expand...

You are not confused! Confusion is a symptom that makes you feel as if you can’t think clearly.

That aint you sister. Now there may some areas that need to be focused on or to learn more about but that is not confusion so do not sell your self short!
 
D3vot3d2G0d said:
Myself,I do not believe all the word is in chronological order. Nevertheless it all is true and will be according to his plan.

Many thousands of years most of the word was spread orally, there was zero written and not a compiled word of God, a lot of what we think thus saith the word of God is based on allogoric,symbolic and man made interpretations or revealed by the Spirit.

We have been allowed to have the darkness in our understanding pulled back ONLY so far.

The first resurrection, Mt.27:50-53 upon Jesus' death and resurrection,graves were opened and many bodies of the saints arose and appeared to many ( living). None even looked for the first resurrection,not even his followers but it happened.

Some 2000 yrs later we are looking for the second resurrection and coming upon his return.

After John hears what Christ commends and rebukes of the church ages,we then have to study,not just read what will be revealed by the Holy Spirit.

My understanding, thin as it may be, is war will reign from the AC against those alive saints and sinners that refuse his mark,it will be the only means of survival to buy,sell,receive medical care and so forth and will be for a short time.( many anti-christ have already come from Nero to Hitler)

Then when the ABOMINATION is fostered upon humanity begins the wrath of God against the AC and his minions. There will be a remnant of living ppl that survive the AC,they will replenish the earth for the 1000 yr reign.

Rev.20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christs,and shall reign with him a thousand yrs.Then the judgements by the saints (1Cor.6:2/3,Rev.19:11).We do not know how many dead came forth or from what all parts of the earth when Jesus arose. Wheither their time was from Adam to Noah,from Noah until Jesus' resurrection or both.

We do know that they that are alive shall NOT prevent those that sleep.

Last there will be a great battle,one Satan has waited many centuries for between God and himself. Remember he has since his rebellion desired to overthrow God and become God.

All saints will join in this battle for Satan has his last stand here before the lake of fire!
Click to expand...

Good thoughts all. Allow me to say to you that I for one appreciate openminded thoughts!

The new modernists of the neo-orthodox (so near and yet so far) schools of Barth and Brunner define inspiration in another manner ie.......
The Bible is the Word of God because particular passages have conveyed from time to time a divine message to man. To man at times the Bible becomes a word of God.

I realize that YOU are not saying that at all, but This school of teaching does not hold the Bible to be the Word of God but rather declares that under some circumstances parts of it become a word of God. As both these views dethrone the whole idea of a real divine revelation I reject them. When I speak of the Bible as the Word of God I do not only mean that it contains the Word of God but that it is the Word of God.

Now, are there symbols used in the Bible??? Certainly there are! However, the Bible is not symbolic or allagorical!

Also, allow me to say that the 1st Resurrection is not over....yet!

The 1st Resurrection is in PHASES!

1.
Jesus Christ Himself (the “first fruits,” 1 Corinthians 15:20), paved the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him.

2.
There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection.

3.
Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

4.
And the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4).

That ends the 1st Resurrection which is a resurrection unto LIFE but the 2nd Resurrection is one unto DEATH (Lake of Fire).

You said..........
"Last there will be a great battle,one Satan has waited many centuries for between God and himself. Remember he has since his rebellion desired to overthrow God and become God.

All saints will join in this battle for Satan has his last stand here before the lake of fire!"

I hope that you do not think that I am trying to correct you or tell you anything at all. Anytime you do, please tell me to........."Keep it to myself" and I will understand.

I am just trying to grow you in knowledge. There are actually TWO Battels coming. #1 is Armageddon which will come 7 years after the Rapture removes all born again believers. Rev. 19 gives the account.

The Lord Jesus will do ALL of the work. The host of heaven comes with Him but only as observers.
Rev. 19:15,

The 2nd Battle that is coming is found in Rev. 20 and it is 1000 years AFTER Armageddon.

Rev. 20:7........
"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

And it does not appear that men have anything to do with the 2nd battle either.

Rev. 20:10.....
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. "
 
I do agree with the above said,ALL.
I just fear my post get so
long and some might NOT read or access them.

The battles and resurrection are the word of God.
I do not have the devotion some have to stay with one subject and explain all the bowls, trumpets and ect.

Yes I've met those whom think ONLY bits and pieces are the WORD OF GOD,and it's usually cut- up to fit their agenda or doctrines.

The WHOLE is the word of God. This is how he lets us know His character,personality,pleasures,his promises and blessings to us...........
I COULD NOT ever be where I am today if not for the word,the truth freely being opened up by the HS.

Furthermore,the word ( Jesus) has always been from the beginning.

We all have particular things that catch our interest. These differ by ability to comprehend,depth of study and openness to the Spirit.
We SHARE his word,not by force,coercion, nor anger but by giving them a taste of SALT to make them THIRSTY FOR THE LIVING WATER!

Been quilty of some of above statement😶
 
Last edited:
Major said:
Good thoughts all. Allow me to say to you that I for one appreciate openminded thoughts!

The new modernists of the neo-orthodox (so near and yet so far) schools of Barth and Brunner define inspiration in another manner ie.......
The Bible is the Word of God because particular passages have conveyed from time to time a divine message to man. To man at times the Bible becomes a word of God.

I realize that YOU are not saying that at all, but This school of teaching does not hold the Bible to be the Word of God but rather declares that under some circumstances parts of it become a word of God. As both these views dethrone the whole idea of a real divine revelation I reject them. When I speak of the Bible as the Word of God I do not only mean that it contains the Word of God but that it is the Word of God.

Now, are there symbols used in the Bible??? Certainly there are! However, the Bible is not symbolic or allagorical!

Also, allow me to say that the 1st Resurrection is not over....yet!

The 1st Resurrection is in PHASES!

1.
Jesus Christ Himself (the “first fruits,” 1 Corinthians 15:20), paved the way for the resurrection of all who believe in Him.

2.
There was a resurrection of the Jerusalem saints (Matthew 27:52-53) which should be included in our consideration of the first resurrection.

3.
Still to come are the resurrection of “the dead in Christ” at the Lord’s return (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

4.
And the resurrection of the martyrs at the end of the Tribulation (Revelation 20:4).

That ends the 1st Resurrection which is a resurrection unto LIFE but the 2nd Resurrection is one unto DEATH (Lake of Fire).

You said..........
"Last there will be a great battle,one Satan has waited many centuries for between God and himself. Remember he has since his rebellion desired to overthrow God and become God.

All saints will join in this battle for Satan has his last stand here before the lake of fire!"

I hope that you do not think that I am trying to correct you or tell you anything at all. Anytime you do, please tell me to........."Keep it to myself" and I will understand.

I am just trying to grow you in knowledge. There are actually TWO Battels coming. #1 is Armageddon which will come 7 years after the Rapture removes all born again believers. Rev. 19 gives the account.

The Lord Jesus will do ALL of the work. The host of heaven comes with Him but only as observers.
Rev. 19:15,

The 2nd Battle that is coming is found in Rev. 20 and it is 1000 years AFTER Armageddon.

Rev. 20:7........
"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

And it does not appear that men have anything to do with the 2nd battle either.

Rev. 20:10.....
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. "
Click to expand...
Very well explained - it's how I understand it as well (except I've never thought of the 1st Resurrection taking place in phases, but you are right - it does!)

Thanks!
 
paidforinfull said:
I usually do, but I am familiar with these Scriptures - I just never put two and two together. Now it all just clicked :).
Click to expand...

Well......I am very blessed that you can agree.

If you have not yet realized it, I am Bible Literalist and not a denominational spokesperson.

I do not represent any denominational agenda and if it is in the Bible then that is the end of the story.
Likewise.....if it is not in the Bible then it is to be rejected.

It is a blessing to have you here on this forum!
 
paidforinfull said:
Very well explained - it's how I understand it as well (except I've never thought of the 1st Resurrection taking place in phases, but you are right - it does!)

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Well, allow me to clarify it.

The Bible tells us that there is a 1st Resurrection and then a 2nd Resurrection sperated by 1000 years.

However, when we read the Scriptures we see pretty quickly that there are several "resurrections" mentioned. So then, since there is only the 1st and the 2nd and the second is a resurrection of all the lost to the Lake of Fire then the others must be part - or a "phase" of the 1st resurrection.
 
Major said:
Well......I am very blessed that you can agree.

If you have not yet realized it, I am Bible Literalist and not a denominational spokesperson.

I do not represent any denominational agenda and if it is in the Bible then that is the end of the story.
Likewise.....if it is not in the Bible then it is to be rejected.

It is a blessing to have you here on this forum!
Click to expand...
Hi Major:

I had a look at your thread 'What is biblical literalism' and posted a reply there.

I also don't fall for denominational agendas - we are Christians, not Baptists, Methodists, etc. We should base our beliefs on God's Word, not man-made interpretations or anything else.

I am so blessed to be a member of CFS!

Blessings.
 
Major said:
I agree and it looks like your prophetic understanding is Literal which is mine as well.

I would only ask what you mean by.............
"I do not believe all the word is in chronological order."

Chronological order is listing, describing, or discussing when events happened as they relate to time. It is like looking at a timeline to view what occurred first and what happened after that.

I am just curiouse so that I can be on the same page of understanding.
Click to expand...

Chronology is a good thing if that is the focus of the study in order to understand the sage, or the flow of events, which is important in some studies.

Systematic study, however, as you know, is not concerned with the chronology as its first and foremost pursuit. I'm sure Bob can relate to this...

So, one must first define the purpose for their study in order to arrive at the approach to the method of study. Again, preaching to the choir here...
Major said:
Dv.......he is tuff! If you ever wanted him to leave, just tell him that I am a lot better looking than he is!!!!
Click to expand...

OH! THAT DOES IT! I'M THROUGH! :mad:

(snicker, snicker)

MM
 
I agree @Musicman

Someone once asked me how I study,the only answer I had at the time was either the Spirit gives me a topic or else what someone says moves me to study.

You've hit my method of study,I study systematically and didn't know it.
When I go into a topic it's like I'm ravenous to find all and everything I can about that subject.
I love God's word !
 
Musicmaster said:
Chronology is a good thing if that is the focus of the study in order to understand the sage, or the flow of events, which is important in some studies.
Systematic study, however, as you know, is not concerned with the chronology as its first and foremost pursuit. I'm sure Bob can relate to this...
So, one must first define the purpose for their study in order to arrive at the approach to the method of study. Again, preaching to the choir here...
OH! THAT DOES IT! I'M THROUGH! :mad:
(snicker, snicker)
MM
Click to expand...
D3vot3d2G0d said:
I agree @Musicman
Someone once asked me how I study, the only answer I had at the time was either the Spirit gives me a topic or else what someone says moves me to study. You've hit my method of study, I study systematically and didn't know it.
When I go into a topic it's like I'm ravenous to find all and everything I can about that subject.
I love God's word !
Click to expand...

Yes, when brother Musicmaster and I had a discussion on systematic theology and Biblical theology, we agreed both are equally good studies but the KEY is, how do we arrive at a common ground when discussing Jesus?

I always like to point out that Jesus meeting with the Samaritan woman in John 4, or when Philip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts 8 were excellent example studies of systematic (Jesus and Philip) and Biblical (the Samaritan woman and the Eunuch,) all reaching a common ground of understanding and ministering for the Kingdom.

I'm a Biblical theologian. I've tried systematic theology but it isn't who I am when I'm sharing the gospel. Unfortunately, we try to be one or the other, and we get stuck and have a hard time saying, I just don't understand.

The KEY is, allow the Holy Spirit, as D3v pointed out, to prompt us in our sharing and just be Yourself! Now, there are many who are both systematic and Biblical theologists (study of God) - God bless them for that!

And here is another good thing, All Glory to God, He gifts us with many other forms of theological study, not just two.
 
bobinfaith said:
Yes, when brother Musicmaster and I had a discussion on systematic theology and Biblical theology, we agreed both are equally good studies but the KEY is, how do we arrive at a common ground when discussing Jesus?

I always like to point out that Jesus meeting with the Samaritan woman in John 4, or when Philip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts 8 were excellent example studies of systematic (Jesus and Philip) and Biblical (the Samaritan woman and the Eunuch,) all reaching a common ground of understanding and ministering for the Kingdom.

I'm a Biblical theologian. I've tried systematic theology but it isn't who I am when I'm sharing the gospel. Unfortunately, we try to be one or the other, and we get stuck and have a hard time saying, I just don't understand.

The KEY is, allow the Holy Spirit, as D3v pointed out, to prompt us in our sharing and just be Yourself! Now, there are many who are both systematic and Biblical theologists (study of God) - God bless them for that!

And here is another good thing, All Glory to God, He gifts us with many other forms of theological study, not just two.
Click to expand...

Actually, Bob, the systematic approach is indeed the one by which I discovered Jesus throughout the OT, and finalizing His identity and work for redemption in the Gospels, and revealing Himself to mankind even more profoundly thereafter in the sagas of the epistles, on into the revelatory book that finishes out Earth's history. Wayne Grudem. Here is an excerpt from a study of his book on Systematic Theology on Wayne's website:

A. Any study that answers the question, “What does the whole Bible say to us today?” about any given topic (--John Frame, RTS)
1. Emphases
a. whole Bible
b. to us
c. today
(http://www.waynegrudem.com/test/2005/082105.pdf)

Bob is pointing at a method of study that isn't all that dissimilar to the systematic approach, but the truth be told, both approaches can be abused, and are indeed abused when applied only in part.

For example, some out there say that Jesus was tortured in Hell for those three days and nights, chained to the floor of Hell and tormented and tortured, ultimately dying a 'spiritual' death. That is a "biblical doctrine" that was abusively arrived at for the sake of some sort of sensationalistic teaching item that tickled the ears of those with itching ears for something new and novel...giving to them a Jesus completely unknown to the scriptures.

A systematic approach takes in a panoramic view of not only the Person of Jesus, but also the events surrounding His life and teachings without leaving outside in the dark the fact that Jesus 'descended' and "...led the captives free..." after He said, "It is finished," and gave up His Spirit unto the Father. Where were those captives? In Abraham's Bosom, located in Sheol. Nowhere does the text even hint at the idea of Jesus having to continue paying for sin in Hell, but that's taught as if it were gospel truth to be embraced as closely as the very existence of Christ Himself. It's a spurious, doctrinal invention of man's imagination as an abuse of biblical theology study. It's deplorable.

So, the aim of the student is what determines for them which approach to use, because the scope of the study is the question the student must ask of themselves when making a choice.

That's not an answer in totality about these two systems of study, but this may give to some an idea of what they are.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
Actually, Bob, the systematic approach is indeed the one by which I discovered Jesus throughout the OT, and finalizing His identity and work for redemption in the Gospels, and revealing Himself to mankind even more profoundly thereafter in the sagas of the epistles, on into the revelatory book that finishes out Earth's history. Wayne Grudem. Here is an excerpt from a study of his book on Systematic Theology on Wayne's website:

A. Any study that answers the question, “What does the whole Bible say to us today?” about any given topic (--John Frame, RTS)
1. Emphases
a. whole Bible
b. to us
c. today
(http://www.waynegrudem.com/test/2005/082105.pdf)

Bob is pointing at a method of study that isn't all that dissimilar to the systematic approach, but the truth be told, both approaches can be abused, and are indeed abused when applied only in part.

For example, some out there say that Jesus was tortured in Hell for those three days and nights, chained to the floor of Hell and tormented and tortured, ultimately dying a 'spiritual' death. That is a "biblical doctrine" that was abusively arrived at for the sake of some sort of sensationalistic teaching item that tickled the ears of those with itching ears for something new and novel...giving to them a Jesus completely unknown to the scriptures.

A systematic approach takes in a panoramic view of not only the Person of Jesus, but also the events surrounding His life and teachings without leaving outside in the dark the fact that Jesus 'descended' and "...led the captives free..." after He said, "It is finished," and gave up His Spirit unto the Father. Where were those captives? In Abraham's Bosom, located in Sheol. Nowhere does the text even hint at the idea of Jesus having to continue paying for sin in Hell, but that's taught as if it were gospel truth to be embraced as closely as the very existence of Christ Himself. It's a spurious, doctrinal invention of man's imagination as an abuse of biblical theology study. It's deplorable.

So, the aim of the student is what determines for them which approach to use, because the scope of the study is the question the student must ask of themselves when making a choice.

That's not an answer in totality about these two systems of study, but this may give to some an idea of what they are.

MM
Click to expand...

Hello MM;

Good points, brother, and I totally agree that both approaches can be abused when applied whether Biblical or Systematic and only in part given your Jesus example of descension.

One important area that is so vital but for some reason gets overlooked is the spiritual empowerment of listening. Jesus emphasized several times in the New Testament, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." So, are we just talking the Gospels only in passing?

I feel there is an anointing for these discussions of the OT or NT, so if we're engaged in the study of God then why do we argue the study of God, or with each other?

In Mark 5:32-34 Jesus gives a solid example of listening when He was traveling and a woman touched Him, who had been bleeding for 12 years. When she told Jesus her prolonged illness, Jesus stopped, looked at her, listened and told the woman her faith healed her.

There are two ways we can study this, Biblical or Systematic Theology, and as MM said, "the aim of the student is what determines for them which approach to use, because the scope of the study is the question the student must ask of themselves when making a choice."
 
Musicmaster said:
Chronology is a good thing if that is the focus of the study in order to understand the sage, or the flow of events, which is important in some studies.

Systematic study, however, as you know, is not concerned with the chronology as its first and foremost pursuit. I'm sure Bob can relate to this...

So, one must first define the purpose for their study in order to arrive at the approach to the method of study. Again, preaching to the choir here...


OH! THAT DOES IT! I'M THROUGH! :mad:

(snicker, snicker)

MM
Click to expand...

No your not!

You are toooooo important to all of us!

Not as cute as some of us, but very important!!!!!!!

Like this...........1650489467757.png
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello MM;

Good points, brother, and I totally agree that both approaches can be abused when applied whether Biblical or Systematic and only in part given your Jesus example of descension.

One important area that is so vital but for some reason gets overlooked is the spiritual empowerment of listening. Jesus emphasized several times in the New Testament, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." So, are we just talking the Gospels only in passing?

I feel there is an anointing for these discussions of the OT or NT, so if we're engaged in the study of God then why do we argue the study of God, or with each other?

In Mark 5:32-34 Jesus gives a solid example of listening when He was traveling and a woman touched Him, who had been bleeding for 12 years. When she told Jesus her prolonged illness, Jesus stopped, looked at her, listened and told the woman her faith healed her.

There are two ways we can study this, Biblical or Systematic Theology, and as MM said, "the aim of the student is what determines for them which approach to use, because the scope of the study is the question the student must ask of themselves when making a choice."
Click to expand...

I agree. As Dr. Wayne Grudem explains it........
“systematic theology is any study that answers the question, ‘What does the whole Bible teach us today?’ about any given topic.”
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top