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Hi thanks for the reply.

I am not accusing you of not working to compare. That’s the work of the accuser of the brethren; (Satan) he accuses us day and night . I am a slow learner offering my opinion called a heresy .

I lean more towards the Amil ( Eschatology) . Thousand years = a unknown. . No reason to wonder when will be the last day under the Sun .

Those who walk by the faith that comes from hearing God as it is written, the signified understanding. They are not of the number as those who seek after numbers, literal numbers rather than the golden measure the measure of faith comparing the spiritual things not seen to the same. . as it is written .

No dispensations as dispensationalist. The body of Christ never leaves earth and the comes back or at least according to the signified understanding of that last book found in the parable chapter 20 .

The "Abomination of Desolation" is a hierarchy of men who having been given the false power lord it over the faith of the non-venerable pew sitters or show watchers.

When Jesus walked out of the abomination of desolation he declared it desolate it could no longer make desolate the word of God. House is left desolate not will be.

Mathew 23: 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

We are the temple of God not made with human hands. The time of reformation came and is doing its work of restoring the government of faith no kings in Israel. On the last day he will destroy all kings a hierarchy of venerable men.

It was developed by the gathering together of like-minded outward Jewish men that refused to worship by faith (the unseen things of God). They demanded to set up a hierarchy of men (the pagan foundation) rather than trusting words said to have come from a unseen source (Our heavenly Father) that worked in prophets as apostles like the judges (mankind used as prophets) men and woman from all nations .

The end to sacrifice and offering under a government of a hierarchy of corrupted mankind was made void when Jesus walked out in Mathew 23 declaring it desolate .Not 70 years later. But at the hearing of faith the mark of his word .. He never entered in again even though the apostles of little faith asked him to take a second look. He moved to the high mountain representing all the kingdoms as nations of the world.

From my experiences it’s almost like the first century reformation, one like no other or ever gain did not occur. The 15th was a carbon copy just different names for the law of the fathers. Otherwise the goal on making all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura ) they tried to make it to no effect calling the word of God a heresy turning things upside down as the hierarchy of mankind’s seal of approval

The beginning of the abomination of desolation "removing God from the holy unseen place represented by the holy of holies the storeroom of his labor of love or work of faith that work in the believer to both will and empower us to walk with Emmanuel.

1 Samauel 8 : 4-7 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

You said...........
"I lean more towards the Amil ( Eschatology) . "

Gari........YOU are a Preterist!!!!

I have absolutely NO idea what the rest of your post means. It is just random opinions.

The Abomination of Desolation is exactly what the Scriptures say that it is.

Daniel 9:27...........
“He (A/C) will confirm a covenant with many for one ’seven.' In the middle of the ’seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

Matthew 24:15 .......
"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand".

In 167 B.C. a Greek ruler by the name of Antiochus Epiphanies set up an altar to Zeus over the altar of burnt offerings in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. He also sacrificed a pig on the altar in the Temple in Jerusalem. This event is known as the abomination of desolation.

In Matthew 24:15 Jesus was speaking some 200 years after the abomination of desolation described above had already occurred.
Jesus was prophesying that some time in the future another abomination of desolation , similar to the one which had already happened would occur in a Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

This is just not that hard to understand my friend.......IF you want to understand!

However, since you are a Preterist, I do know why you need to explain it away.
 

Garee

Account Closed
Garee, you're doing it again. You've completely derailed your response off into left field.

Why do you persist in avoiding an answer to what I asked of you? Why don't you prove what you claimed? Please show to me where any prophet or Patriarch had Holy Spirit dwelling WITHIN them

My goal is to defend the faith as it is writen that works in beleivers. It is decibed as armor we put on and keep on.

Left field is an open field. Sure I will show as soon as you can show me when the Holy Spirit did not work within in a prophet sent with the gospel as an apostle. How else can he move them if not from within? A whirlpool from without or thunder and lightning, and not the still small voice within? Not sure just what it is you are trying to prove.?

1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

Respecter of persons and all that other stuff you brought up are not answers. It's shooting in the dark, hoping to hit something.

I would think of course the fact that Christ is no respecter of person is one of the keys needed to rightly divide. He is not served by the human hands of any nation as if The Potter who satisfies all needs needed something from the clay he forms Christ in as new creatures .

Abel a prophet sent with the word of God as an apostle is the first recorded apostle martyr because Christ worked in him to both will and empower him to do the good work. We must start in the beginning with first reference of a doctrine.

Why would say some they had the Spirit of Christ on them rather than in them that seems odd to Me.? Whats the conclusion? Does flesh from any nation matter?

Is it that Holy Spirit left its influence of those born again believers when they acted foolish? (No God in their heart). Galatian 3 informs us of them who acted that way just as if they did not have the Spirit of faith .He would seem call them back to repentance and do the first work of Christ working in them … by which they can believe God not seen the first experience or first love .

He moves men from within as the Holy Spirit comes on them . It would seem many set up a understanding just like as if the first century reformation never came .A time like never before or ever again. And they try and make Acts 2 the starting point and not Genesis where the doctrine of working in prophets is introduced.

Acts 10:33-35 King James Version (KJV) Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God. Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Now, please discuss the difference that Christ's coming and having fulfilled mankind's redemption and cleansing made a difference as to Holy Spirit being UPON someone as opposed to WITHIN someone.

Can you focus on that for us? Please?

When suggesting and discussing the difference that Christ's coming had, having fulfilled mankind's redemption. Do you mean the promised demonstration of the work finished from before the foundation of the world (the actual unseen work of his faith work) or the tempoiral demonstration of the Father and Son in Isaiah 53 ?

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The Holy Spirit worked in the Old Testament saints just as the new testament saints. . One bride one church.

What would be the reason to cause a division? I would say he works in the heart of all to both will and empower called the hearing of faith.

They received the end of their faith from the beginning just as we do. They looked ahead by the faith of Christ that worked in them again in order to demonstration of the work finished from the foundation of the world. We look back by the same Spirit of faith. Christ's that works in us and them. They had the treasure of the gospel power woking in them or if you desirte to say on them just as us.

1 Peter1: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Perhaps looking at the signified the language of parables should be looked into. . they provide the hidden manna teaching us how to walk by faith .
 

Garee

Account Closed
You said...........
"I lean more towards the Amil ( Eschatology) . "

Gari........YOU are a Preterist!!!!

I have absolutely NO idea what the rest of your post means. It is just random opinions.

The Abomination of Desolation is exactly what the Scriptures say that it is.

Daniel 9:27...........
“He (A/C) will confirm a covenant with many for one ’seven.' In the middle of the ’seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

Matthew 24:15 .......
"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand".

In 167 B.C. a Greek ruler by the name of Antiochus Epiphanies set up an altar to Zeus over the altar of burnt offerings in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. He also sacrificed a pig on the altar in the Temple in Jerusalem. This event is known as the abomination of desolation.

In Matthew 24:15 Jesus was speaking some 200 years after the abomination of desolation described above had already occurred.
Jesus was prophesying that some time in the future another abomination of desolation , similar to the one which had already happened would occur in a Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

This is just not that hard to understand my friend.......IF you want to understand!

However, since you are a Preterist, I do know why you need to explain it away.

More of a Amil. . . no literal thousand years.

A preterist is a person who maintains that the prophecies in the Apocalypse have already been fulfilled. They misinterpret the parable in Revelation 20 used to represent a thousand signified years as if it was 24 hour day. Three times it is used that way before the last 6 (Revelation 20) to show God does not work with in time restraints.. . numbering days .

An Amil position gets under the teaching instruction in the opening verse of the Book or Revalation. teaching us that not only is the whole book inspired but also signified the language of parables or called hidden Manna in Revelation 2:17 . In order to show us of the things that come to pass. . the end of time looking back to the whole period of time or the beginning.

Spirit on the Lord's day, the “last day” under the sun and heard behind a great voice, as of a trumpet the last trump

Revelation 1:1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Looking back from the last day under the Sun we get a picture of history past inspect to those who pierced him realed in a minds, eye or vision.

Revelation1: 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Revelation 1: 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

It’s the last day. . two fold, the day the day of judgment and the day that those who have been born again from above receive the promise of their new incorruptible body

. Six times in John the Holy Spirit uses the phrase last day in that way teaching us how to walk faith .Not after the temporal things seen

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 
More of a Amil. . . no literal thousand years.

A preterist is a person who maintains that the prophecies in the Apocalypse have already been fulfilled. They misinterpret the parable in Revelation 20 used to represent a thousand signified years as if it was 24 hour day. Three times it is used that way before the last 6 (Revelation 20) to show God does not work with in time restraints.. . numbering days .

An Amil position gets under the teaching instruction in the opening verse of the Book or Revalation. teaching us that not only is the whole book inspired but also signified the language of parables or called hidden Manna in Revelation 2:17 . In order to show us of the things that come to pass. . the end of time looking back to the whole period of time or the beginning.

Spirit on the Lord's day, the “last day” under the sun and heard behind a great voice, as of a trumpet the last trump

Revelation 1:1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Looking back from the last day under the Sun we get a picture of history past inspect to those who pierced him realed in a minds, eye or vision.

Revelation1: 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Revelation 1: 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

It’s the last day. . two fold, the day the day of judgment and the day that those who have been born again from above receive the promise of their new incorruptible body

. Six times in John the Holy Spirit uses the phrase last day in that way teaching us how to walk faith .Not after the temporal things seen
John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Somewhat true Gari. Actually..... true Amillennialism views the millennial kingdom as a present reality.

Now if that were the case, why does the Lion and Lamb not graze in the same back yard?
If that is the case, why does the children and the rattlesnake not play together?
If that is the case one has to ask why there is War today? The Bible says that the 1000 year Millennium will be a time of Peace.

Anyway, you as an amillennialist view the age between the first and second advents of Christ as fulfilling the prophecies of both the tribulation and the millennium. YOU then view Satan as having been bound at the cross, the resurrection in connection with the kingdom as occurring when the graves of some of the saints were opened at the resurrection of Christ, Pentecost as being the sign of Christ’s kingdom come on earth, and the persecution of the early church as fulfilling, at least in part, the prophecies of the tribulation period.

The question then must be from Bible students: “How do they arrive at such an allegorized view of the kingdom?

Now, if I could answer why you think such a thing, I would NOT be posting on an internet website but instead I would be sitting on my own Island watching the sun go down living off my wealth from all the books I would have written.

In other words..........I have NO clue!
 
My goal is to defend the faith as it is writen that works in beleivers. It is decibed as armor we put on and keep on.

Left field is an open field. Sure I will show as soon as you can show me when the Holy Spirit did not work within in a prophet sent with the gospel as an apostle. How else can he move them if not from within? A whirlpool from without or thunder and lightning, and not the still small voice within? Not sure just what it is you are trying to prove.?

Garee, we're not talking about weather and water swirling about outside of a man. We're talking about the difference the scriptures make between the Spirit UPON a man as opposed to WITHIN. Throwing in elements of external, physical things doing some sort of inner work...come now. Let's stop playing that game, shall we, and be real about this?

Holy Spirit UPON someone is not restrained from moving a man in spirit and in body, as would be the case with a storm in the sky. Let's stop comparing apples to oranges, and stick to the topic at hand, ok? That's all I ask. Can we dispense with the unrelated comparisons, and deal directly with the question?

Time after time, we're told about the Spirit of the Lord being UPON those men. It is not said that they were FILLED with the Spirit.

Isaiah 59:21 "As for Me," says the LORD, "this [is] My covenant with them: My Spirit who [is] upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants' descendants," says the LORD, "from this time and forevermore."

The scriptures are replete with subtle indicators of truths that one must mine the word of God to pick up on. This one happens to speak to the difference between the OT believers and those after the cross. They only had a sin covering, we today have fulfilled redemption. Why do you suppose the OT saints were not in Heaven until AFTER Jesus fulfilled their redemption on that cross. They were held in Abraham's Bosom in Sheol until Jesus led them free into Heaven from that place after their sins were finally atoned?

Now, one more time...can you answer this?

MM
 

Garee

Account Closed
Somewhat true Gari. Actually..... true Amillennialism views the millennial kingdom as a present reality.
In other words..........I have NO clue!

Yes we are in the last days. The clues are in the Bible .
Now if that were the case, why does the Lion and Lamb not graze in the same back yard?
If that is the case, why does the children and the rattlesnake not play together?
If that is the case one has to ask why there is War today? The Bible says that the 1000 year Millennium will be a time of Peace.

We are promised of wars and famines, marrying and dying business as usual history repeating itself right up till the last day. Then having received our new incoruptible bodies there will be no death by lions or poisonous things like false prophecy. .Phyiical death began after day 6 . When the father of lies deceived Cain to murder his brother Able. Abel who blood cries out form the corrupted earth is the first recorded martyr. And murder case.

Anyway, you as an amillennialist view the age between the first and second advents of Christ as fulfilling the prophecies of both the tribulation and the millennium. YOU then view Satan as having been bound at the cross, the resurrection in connection with the kingdom as occurring when the graves of some of the saints were opened at the resurrection of Christ, Pentecost as being the sign of Christ’s kingdom come on earth, and the persecution of the early church as fulfilling, at least in part, the prophecies of the tribulation period.

The question then must be from Bible students: “How do they arrive at such an allegorized view of the kingdom?

Now, if I could answer why you think such a thing, I would NOT be posting on an internet website but instead I would be sitting on my own Island watching the sun go down living off my wealth from all the books I would have written.

Yes we look for the signified understanding hid in parables. . we find that prescription in the opening verse of Revelation1:1.

In the parable in chapter 20:5 of Revelation it does reveal that Satan fell at Pentecost bound with the gospel chain locked with the gospel key for a unknown amount of time signified by a thousand years .He will be loosed for a short while when the Holy Spirit sends a famine for hearing the gospel called killing the two prohets (the law and the prophets (Gods witness sola scriptura ) not being empowered to believe. No new converts during that period

Some will build another temple made with human hands (abomination of desolation) .and look for animals like red heifers to kill. In some sort of hope of Jewish flesh profiting for something even though Jesus plainly said his onw does not profit

Apparently when the veil was rent there was no Jewish fleshly king sitting in the holy of holies. It was then he fell not having the power to deceive the other nation (every nation) That we must have a jewish man to teach us .as a law of the fathers a hierarchy of men. The veil that represented the flesh of the firstborn son, the ceremonial law of circumcision had become sight (our blody husband) because of circumission .

All the nations witnessed that Satan had fell. He could no longer hide behind the veil representing the flesh of Jesus. You could say like the wizard of Oz the fictional story. Big voice no power. .

In Joel it speaks of the power to a go out in the world as apostles sent with the good news.

Acts 2:15-17 King James Version (KJV) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

I am no writer that would apear to be your blessing. Together we could write it and then you could go on the island .I would get a new roof and windows . Miscalculated my retirement .
 

Garee

Account Closed
Garee, we're not talking about weather and water swirling about outside of a man. We're talking about the difference the scriptures make between the Spirit UPON a man as opposed to WITHIN. Throwing in elements of external, physical things doing some sort of inner work...come now. Let's stop playing that game, shall we, and be real about this?

Holy Spirit UPON someone is not restrained from moving a man in spirit and in body, as would be the case with a storm in the sky. Let's stop comparing apples to oranges, and stick to the topic at hand, ok? That's all I ask. Can we dispense with the unrelated comparisons, and deal directly with the question?

Time after time, we're told about the Spirit of the Lord being UPON those men. It is not said that they were FILLED with the Spirit.

Isaiah 59:21 "As for Me," says the LORD, "this [is] My covenant with them: My Spirit who [is] upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants' descendants," says the LORD, "from this time and forevermore."

The scriptures are replete with subtle indicators of truths that one must mine the word of God to pick up on. This one happens to speak to the difference between the OT believers and those after the cross. They only had a sin covering, we today have fulfilled redemption. Why do you suppose the OT saints were not in Heaven until AFTER Jesus fulfilled their redemption on that cross. They were held in Abraham's Bosom in Sheol until Jesus led them free into Heaven from that place after their sins were finally atoned?

Now, one more time...can you answer this?

Unrelated comparisons? Aples and Oranges? Did you try using the prescription for rightly dividing the parables mixing faith unseen eternal things with the temporal things seen?(2 Corinthians 4:18)

The holy Spirit that came up-on them worked in them just as it worked with Balaams Ass to show God is not served by human hand in any way shape of form

That work of Christ stopped the madness of that false prophet Asses are used to represent the unredeemed faithless. Or natural unconverted mankind. A lamb to represent Christ. The lamb must be ceremonially sacrificed. Or break his neck like in hanging with Judas faling backward. .The breaking of the neck signified the Spirit of judgment of those that fall backward slain in the Spirit of judgment. Two witnesses below in a parable teaching us that God is not served by human hands in any way shape or form .We simply do not know Christ after the rudiments of this world .The temporal what the eyes see .

Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

Exodus 34:20But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
 
My goal is to defend the faith as it is writen that works in beleivers. It is decibed as armor we put on and keep on.

Left field is an open field. Sure I will show as soon as you can show me when the Holy Spirit did not work within in a prophet sent with the gospel as an apostle. How else can he move them if not from within? A whirlpool from without or thunder and lightning, and not the still small voice within? Not sure just what it is you are trying to prove.?

1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.



I would think of course the fact that Christ is no respecter of person is one of the keys needed to rightly divide. He is not served by the human hands of any nation as if The Potter who satisfies all needs needed something from the clay he forms Christ in as new creatures .

Abel a prophet sent with the word of God as an apostle is the first recorded apostle martyr because Christ worked in him to both will and empower him to do the good work. We must start in the beginning with first reference of a doctrine.

Why would say some they had the Spirit of Christ on them rather than in them that seems odd to Me.? Whats the conclusion? Does flesh from any nation matter?

Is it that Holy Spirit left its influence of those born again believers when they acted foolish? (No God in their heart). Galatian 3 informs us of them who acted that way just as if they did not have the Spirit of faith .He would seem call them back to repentance and do the first work of Christ working in them … by which they can believe God not seen the first experience or first love .

He moves men from within as the Holy Spirit comes on them . It would seem many set up a understanding just like as if the first century reformation never came .A time like never before or ever again. And they try and make Acts 2 the starting point and not Genesis where the doctrine of working in prophets is introduced.

Acts 10:33-35 King James Version (KJV) Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God. Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.



When suggesting and discussing the difference that Christ's coming had, having fulfilled mankind's redemption. Do you mean the promised demonstration of the work finished from before the foundation of the world (the actual unseen work of his faith work) or the tempoiral demonstration of the Father and Son in Isaiah 53 ?

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The Holy Spirit worked in the Old Testament saints just as the new testament saints. . One bride one church.

What would be the reason to cause a division? I would say he works in the heart of all to both will and empower called the hearing of faith.

They received the end of their faith from the beginning just as we do. They looked ahead by the faith of Christ that worked in them again in order to demonstration of the work finished from the foundation of the world. We look back by the same Spirit of faith. Christ's that works in us and them. They had the treasure of the gospel power woking in them or if you desirte to say on them just as us.

1 Peter1: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Perhaps looking at the signified the language of parables should be looked into. . they provide the hidden manna teaching us how to walk by faith .
You said.............
The Holy Spirit worked in the Old Testament saints just as the new testament saints. . One bride one church.

Gari......The Bible says in John 7:39
"Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified".

Then in “John 14:12..........
"Greater things shall you do when the Holy Spirit comes, when I am ascended and the Holy Spirit comes”.

But if the question is, “Were Old Testament saints indwelt by the Spirit?” I think I would have to say NO!

The work of the Holy Spirit in Old Testament times was selective and temporary but not indwelling.
 
Yes we are in the last days. The clues are in the Bible .


We are promised of wars and famines, marrying and dying business as usual history repeating itself right up till the last day. Then having received our new incoruptible bodies there will be no death by lions or poisonous things like false prophecy. .Phyiical death began after day 6 . When the father of lies deceived Cain to murder his brother Able. Abel who blood cries out form the corrupted earth is the first recorded martyr. And murder case.



Yes we look for the signified understanding hid in parables. . we find that prescription in the opening verse of Revelation1:1.

In the parable in chapter 20:5 of Revelation it does reveal that Satan fell at Pentecost bound with the gospel chain locked with the gospel key for a unknown amount of time signified by a thousand years .He will be loosed for a short while when the Holy Spirit sends a famine for hearing the gospel called killing the two prohets (the law and the prophets (Gods witness sola scriptura ) not being empowered to believe. No new converts during that period

Some will build another temple made with human hands (abomination of desolation) .and look for animals like red heifers to kill. In some sort of hope of Jewish flesh profiting for something even though Jesus plainly said his onw does not profit

Apparently when the veil was rent there was no Jewish fleshly king sitting in the holy of holies. It was then he fell not having the power to deceive the other nation (every nation) That we must have a jewish man to teach us .as a law of the fathers a hierarchy of men. The veil that represented the flesh of the firstborn son, the ceremonial law of circumcision had become sight (our blody husband) because of circumission .

All the nations witnessed that Satan had fell. He could no longer hide behind the veil representing the flesh of Jesus. You could say like the wizard of Oz the fictional story. Big voice no power. .

In Joel it speaks of the power to a go out in the world as apostles sent with the good news.

Acts 2:15-17 King James Version (KJV) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

I am no writer that would apear to be your blessing. Together we could write it and then you could go on the island .I would get a new roof and windows . Miscalculated my retirement .

IF....IF you wanted me to respond to your post, you would have used the "REPLY" option instead of just posting hoping I would not see it I guess. Who knows.

You said.............
"In the parable in chapter 20:5 of Revelation it does reveal that Satan fell at Pentecost bound with the gospel chain locked with the gospel key for a unknown amount of time signified by a thousand years ".

Gari......with all due love, respect and Christian admiration, that is just NONESENSE!

Not one single word is validated by any Scripture to support your post. What you just posted is completely FULL BLOWN PRETERISM!

Satan did not fall at Pentecost. What we do know is this: the angels were created before the earth (Job 38:4-7). Satan fell before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden (Gen, 3:1-14). Satan’s fall, therefore, must have occurred somewhere after the time the angels were created and before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Whether Satan’s fall occurred hours, days, or years before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden, Scripture does not specifically say but he certainly did not FALL AT PENTECOST.
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You said..............
"Apparently when the veil was rent there was no Jewish fleshly king sitting in the holy of holies."

Again, NONESENSE and not Biblical! There was NEVER a man, or a King or a Jew that SAT IN THE HOLY OF HOLIES>.

The great High Priest only went into the Holy of Holies once a year to place blood on the Mercy Seat.
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You said......
I am no writer that would apear to be your blessing.

Gari......I am someone who believe in what the Word of God says.

YOU my friend come across as a GNOSTIC. That is the impression you give with what you write. You are always saying that what YOU KNOW is more important and more authentic that what God has said.

I have always challenged such people in a loving and respectful way and that is what I am AND OTHERS are doing with you.

Truth is not what you and me say it is but rather it is what God says it is.
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You said...............
"In the parable in chapter 20:5 of Revelation it does reveal that Satan fell at Pentecost bound with the gospel chain locked with the gospel key for a unknown amount of time signified by a thousand years .He will be loosed for a short while when the Holy Spirit sends a famine for hearing the gospel called killing the two prohets (the law and the prophets (Gods witness sola scriptura ) not being empowered to believe. No new converts during that period"


NO SIR! That is incorrect and is not Biblical. You just TWISTED Revelation 20:5 with the PRETERIST theological false agenda to make it say what YOU want it to say.

Actually the Bible says that in Revelation 19:11-6 the Lord Jesus comes again at Armageddon.

Then the Bible says in Revelation 20:5 that AFTER Armageddon.............
"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

Then begins the 1000 year rule of Christ as seen in Revelation 20:5-6............
"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Then in Revelation 20:7 we see.............
"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,"

The Scriptures DO NOT SAY what you said..."He will be loosed for a short while when the Holy Spirit sends a famine for hearing the gospel".

The Bible actually says in Revelation 20:8........
"and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth-Gog and Magog-and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore."

The Bible says in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 that there will be a FALLING AWAY but that is before the A.C is revealed. That time is TODAY.


Then in 2 Thess. 2:8..........
"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the LORD shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders".

1. Falling Away
2. Rapture.
3. A/C is revealed.
4. 7 years of Tribulation
5. Armageddon
6. Satan chained
7. 1000 year rule of Christ
8. Satan released
9. Last Rebellion
10,New Heaven and Earth.
 
Unrelated comparisons? Aples and Oranges? Did you try using the prescription for rightly dividing the parables mixing faith unseen eternal things with the temporal things seen?(2 Corinthians 4:18)

The holy Spirit that came up-on them worked in them just as it worked with Balaams Ass to show God is not served by human hand in any way shape of form

That work of Christ stopped the madness of that false prophet Asses are used to represent the unredeemed faithless. Or natural unconverted mankind. A lamb to represent Christ. The lamb must be ceremonially sacrificed. Or break his neck like in hanging with Judas faling backward. .The breaking of the neck signified the Spirit of judgment of those that fall backward slain in the Spirit of judgment. Two witnesses below in a parable teaching us that God is not served by human hands in any way shape or form .We simply do not know Christ after the rudiments of this world .The temporal what the eyes see .

Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

Exodus 34:20But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

Garee, you continue to avoid answering directly my questions and Major's questions. If you can't answer them with the precision of scripture, then just admit it. There's no shame in saying, "I don't know." We won't think any less of you. Answering with "things unseen" and all the other diversions is not at all the accountability to which we have been called to as followers of Christ Jesus. Your answers to both of us left everyone standing in the dark with crickets chirping in the background (since we're speaking of ethereal imagery).

So, I'm left with no other assessment than to conclude that you don't know the answers to the inconsistencies in your eschatology. Wolves and sheep getting along in a pristine environment appears to be one of the many glaring problems in your eschatology you can't seem to wrest into conformity to your viewpoint. That's a good thing, Garee, because that leaves us with the understanding that scripture means what it says.

MM
 
My goal is to defend the faith as it is writen that works in beleivers. It is decibed as armor we put on and keep on.

Left field is an open field. Sure I will show as soon as you can show me when the Holy Spirit did not work within in a prophet sent with the gospel as an apostle. How else can he move them if not from within? A whirlpool from without or thunder and lightning, and not the still small voice within? Not sure just what it is you are trying to prove.?

1 Kings 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.



I would think of course the fact that Christ is no respecter of person is one of the keys needed to rightly divide. He is not served by the human hands of any nation as if The Potter who satisfies all needs needed something from the clay he forms Christ in as new creatures .

Abel a prophet sent with the word of God as an apostle is the first recorded apostle martyr because Christ worked in him to both will and empower him to do the good work. We must start in the beginning with first reference of a doctrine.

Why would say some they had the Spirit of Christ on them rather than in them that seems odd to Me.? Whats the conclusion? Does flesh from any nation matter?

Is it that Holy Spirit left its influence of those born again believers when they acted foolish? (No God in their heart). Galatian 3 informs us of them who acted that way just as if they did not have the Spirit of faith .He would seem call them back to repentance and do the first work of Christ working in them … by which they can believe God not seen the first experience or first love .

He moves men from within as the Holy Spirit comes on them . It would seem many set up a understanding just like as if the first century reformation never came .A time like never before or ever again. And they try and make Acts 2 the starting point and not Genesis where the doctrine of working in prophets is introduced.

Acts 10:33-35 King James Version (KJV) Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God. Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.



When suggesting and discussing the difference that Christ's coming had, having fulfilled mankind's redemption. Do you mean the promised demonstration of the work finished from before the foundation of the world (the actual unseen work of his faith work) or the tempoiral demonstration of the Father and Son in Isaiah 53 ?

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The Holy Spirit worked in the Old Testament saints just as the new testament saints. . One bride one church.

What would be the reason to cause a division? I would say he works in the heart of all to both will and empower called the hearing of faith.

They received the end of their faith from the beginning just as we do. They looked ahead by the faith of Christ that worked in them again in order to demonstration of the work finished from the foundation of the world. We look back by the same Spirit of faith. Christ's that works in us and them. They had the treasure of the gospel power woking in them or if you desirte to say on them just as us.

1 Peter1: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Perhaps looking at the signified the language of parables should be looked into. . they provide the hidden manna teaching us how to walk by faith .
In all of that post, the 1st thing you said was.............
"My goal is to defend the faith as it is writen that works in beleivers. It is decibed as armor we put on and keep on."

Now I am sure that in YOUR mind that is what you believe. However, from the ACTUAL posts you have made, YOU and everyone else here knows that YOUR goal is to promote YOUR agenda of PRETERISM!

Gari......just so that everyone here knows what Preterism is, allow me to tell all of them that According to Preterism- No signs today point forward to Christ's return Jesus “came” in 70 AD All of Matthew 24 is fulfilled, both partial and full Preterism agree on this.

THAT is what YOUR goal is based on.

YOUR agenda in Preterism says, which YOU have over the course of your postings have agreed and stated is that YOUR opinions are not limited to this division in prophecy.

Some of the things you have said and the theology of your agenda teaches are..........
1. The whole world saw the son come in the clouds.
2. Zech. 12 fulfills Mt.24:30.
3. Nero was the “beast” and “The man of sin” (2 Thess. 2:4) has come.
4. Jesus is the “prince that shall come” in Dan.9.
5. The “end” of the world (age) refers to the end of the Jewish world in 70 AD when the temple was destroyed and Israel was scattered.
6. It was the last days of the old system.
7. The fall of “Babylon” of Revelation 17 refers to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.
8. God replaced Old Testament Israel with the Church, all the promises to Israel now belong to the church.
9. Satan is already bound in the abyss unable to hinder the spread of the Gospel.
10The spirit being poured out on all flesh already took place.
11Rev.7:9 is the end of the age harvest that already took place
12the fullness of the Gentiles have come in.
13Revelation 20 has already been fulfilled.

I just want to make sure that everyone here who read this stuff knows that If you think on the implications of believing the “prophecies” as past events, it WILL CHANGE everything you have ever learned from the Bible.
 
Garee, you continue to avoid answering directly my questions and Major's questions. If you can't answer them with the precision of scripture, then just admit it. There's no shame in saying, "I don't know." We won't think any less of you. Answering with "things unseen" and all the other diversions is not at all the accountability to which we have been called to as followers of Christ Jesus. Your answers to both of us left everyone standing in the dark with crickets chirping in the background (since we're speaking of ethereal imagery).

So, I'm left with no other assessment than to conclude that you don't know the answers to the inconsistencies in your eschatology. Wolves and sheep getting along in a pristine environment appears to be one of the many glaring problems in your eschatology you can't seem to wrest into conformity to your viewpoint. That's a good thing, Garee, because that leaves us with the understanding that scripture means what it says.

MM

Well said and to that I give a hearty AMEN

Now as you have seen, I have been accused of many things in my past. Some of them are.......being cute, another is that I am slim and another is that I give too much attention to our dogs. Some have even said that I may be somewhat too much of a truth teller.(?) whatever that means.

However, no one can ever say that what I say is not straight forward and to the point and easy to understand.

Colossians 4:6
"Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person."

1 Peter 3:15.....
"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man who asketh you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear."
 
13Revelation 20 has already been fulfilled. (according to preterists)

I guess that means satan has already been cast into the Lake of Fire (v.10) and we have been through the Great White Throne judgment (v.12).

Besides, why do they arbitrarily stop at chapter 20? There are two more chapters of prophecy in Revelation.
 
I guess that means satan has already been cast into the Lake of Fire (v.10) and we have been through the Great White Throne judgment (v.12).

Besides, why do they arbitrarily stop at chapter 20? There are two more chapters of prophecy in Revelation.

Beats me!
 
I guess that means satan has already been cast into the Lake of Fire (v.10) and we have been through the Great White Throne judgment (v.12).

Besides, why do they arbitrarily stop at chapter 20? There are two more chapters of prophecy in Revelation.

Well, that depends on which flavor one is...full preterist of partial preterist. That grouping is like a multi-colored lollipop.
 
Well, that depends on which flavor one is...full preterist of partial preterist. That grouping is like a multi-colored lollipop.
So full preterists believe all of Revelation was fulfilled by 70AD? wow. That would be like John Denver's song about West Virginia...'almost heaven'.
 
So full preterists believe all of Revelation was fulfilled by 70AD? wow. That would be like John Denver's song about West Virginia...'almost heaven'.

Most Preterists are partial rather than full because full Preterism is riddled with FAR more problems. Preterism followers most generally hate the Jews. Hanagraaf is one such, although he denies being a partial Preterist. His eschatology is far closer to partial then pre-millennial. He wrote the forward to a book on Amillennialism. So, he tried to shuck and jive around the subject to keep anyone from nailing him down to a predefined identifier.

MM
 
Most Preterists are partial rather than full because full Preterism is riddled with FAR more problems. Preterism followers most generally hate the Jews. Hanagraaf is one such, although he denies being a partial Preterist. His eschatology is far closer to partial then pre-millennial. He wrote the forward to a book on Amillennialism. So, he tried to shuck and jive around the subject to keep anyone from nailing him down to a predefined identifier.

MM
Yup, I saw the debate between Hitchcock and Hanegraaf, where the former took the latter to the woodshed.
R.C. Sproul and Hitchcock would have probably been a better match.
Oh well, I guess Hanegraaf is right now gazing into heaven through icons.
I use to listen to Walter Martin (who was a Classical Premil) but when he passed on, somehow Hanegraaf usurped the show.
 
Yup, I saw the debate between Hitchcock and Hanegraaf, where the former took the latter to the woodshed.
R.C. Sproul and Hitchcock would have probably been a better match.
Oh well, I guess Hanegraaf is right now gazing into heaven through icons.
I use to listen to Walter Martin (who was a Classical Premil) but when he passed on, somehow Hanegraaf usurped the show.

Martin was a hoot. He wore all that gaudy jewelry, but he was a hard hitter for apologetics and cult influences.
 

Garee

Account Closed
Gari......with all due love, respect and Christian admiration, that is just NONESENSE!

Not one single word is validated by any Scripture to support your post. What you just posted is completely FULL BLOWN PRETERISM!

Satan did not fall at Pentecost. What we do know is this: the angels were created before the earth (Job 38:4-7). Satan fell before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden (Gen, 3:1-14). Satan’s fall, therefore, must have occurred somewhere after the time the angels were created and before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Whether Satan’s fall occurred hours, days, or years before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden, Scripture does not specifically say but he certainly did not FALL AT PENTECOST.

Respectable nonsense. Sorry brother. Well it’s better than no sense at all. Did you mean you do not agree with the idea of parables teaching us as a kingdom of priest from all nations how to walk by faith, concealing the mysteries from the faithless? I would ofer the parable below.

What does it teach?

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

I would think if no desire to search no conclusion to the parable .Historical is what we have the literal (no mixing of faith . I would think both are needed to find the conclussion .

Sons of God are the believers. Abel is the first son of God accredited by the fullness of Christ grace that worked in him .His blood cries out from the corrupted heart of earth, longing to be clothed with the promised new incorruptible body which as sons of God we are. Not what we will be The new bride made up of all the nations of the world .

Those who mix faith the unseen with the temporal seen they receive the rest yoked with Christ. They would refuse to make Jesus into a circus seal like the faithless outward Jews

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

It would seem when looking at the parable in Revelation 20 you forgot to consider the interpretation instruction in the first verse. It I believe teaches us that not only did the Holy Spirit inspire the thoughts of God from heaven ( the whole book all the chapters ), but also signified it, the language of parables or called hidden manna in Revelation 2. The bread of unfamiliarly revealing the mysteries hid.

Thousands years is the same kind of metaphor used in other parables the first three times in the bible to represent a unknown (faith issue.) .God does not number days or people rather than us walking by faith (the unseen ) .

The word “thousand” is used many, many times throughout the Bible to represent an unknown as to whatever is in view. he owns the catle on a thosand hill repsents he own all . Many many demonstrations using thousand, ten and hundreds in mutiples for rightly dividing the parables.( mixing faith)

No signs where given to wonder after . . never coming to faith (beleif) the conclusion . Those who do seek after a sign before they will believe God or exercise the faith of Christ that works in the believer today God sends them a strong delusion so that they can continue to believe the lie and wonder, wonder and continue to wonder never coming to the end of faith the salvation of one’s soul .

You could say it makes way for the purgatory false doctrine of wondering marveling ecited the flesh .extending time after one takes there last breath with no end to it .

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The word thousand as to whatever is in view is used many times to represent an unknown.(faith issue)

No signs to wonder after were given. And God is no longer bringing any new revelations; the Book of Revelation is the last chapter in the book of law the Bible. It is sealed with seven seals till the end of time, the last day under the Sun. There are no laws missing by which we could know God more intimately. Our armor of God protects us informing, if any man after the last revelation was given to John says the lord said this, I saw him here or there or had a dream we are commanded to believe not. He warned us before time (the last Chapter Revelation.) .It’s how we can try the spirits to see if they are inspired from above heavenly or earthly corrupted .

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

The sign of Jonas the prophet was fulfilled at the cross by the Son of man .

A closing warning not to seek after signs as a means to wonder after in the last chapter 22 of Revelation is given to all who do seek after the literal word and not the hidden manna (signified understanding )The interpretation is given exclusively to those who do seek the understanding of parables hid from the evil generation that seek after signs .”Show us a miracle then we will believe”. No sign was given to wonder about.

I understand that the Legion fell in the beginning after creation Genesis, when God saw pride in that’s spirit of lies heart because of the glory of creation before that fall. That glory departed on day three. The full presence of God will again be the glory in the new with the new bride. But that’s not the fall I am speaking of. The one I am referring to does not mean the spirit of error has been made to no effect and there is no deception in the world . That’s the new order with our new bodies when the legion will be a thing of the past never coming to mind forever and ever.

I am referring to the parable in Revelation 20 in respect to all the nations “ the entire world” as sign to mankind we do not need men to teach and lord it over our new faith the pagan foundation.

How beautiful are the feet of those shod with the gospel sent them out two by two. The greatest time in history. A time like never before or ever again the renting of the veil. The sign of circumcision of the first born Jesus therefore revealing the mysteries hidden from time past of the bloody husband Christ because of circumcision .

Loking at another parble there the Holy Spirt used the phrase Blody husband to represnt the Son of man Jesus Bloody husband a reference to the husband of the bride of Christ the church that the Father named Christian in the book of Acts formerly calling her Israel as in all Israel are not born again Israel . Christian a more befitting name to name the bride of Christ made up of all the nations as families of the earth . Literally meaning according to a demonym ; A word that identifies people by location and founder. Like Philippians, Galatians, Nicolaitanes etc.

Christian with no other meaning added . . . . residents of the city of Christ named after her founder and husband Christ. Prepared as His chaste virgin bride the many lively stones that make up the spirit unseen house the wife of Christ. .

It is shown in an Old Testament parable (bloody husband) which I would think can help us understand the reason for circumcision as sign of the first born. The veil in respect to our blody husband Christ will remain rent until the last day.

.It is similar to the parable of Abraham and Isaac with the ram caught in the bush . It uses Zipporah a gentile woman to represent the church as the new creatures. .as to what we will be neither male nor female, Jew nor gentile and uses her son the first born Gershom meaning an alien or I have been a stranger in a strange land. To represent new creatures in Christ.

Surely Zipporah was not calling Gersom her son her "bloody husband" She understood the mystery of faith of the suffering of Christ beforehand and and the glory the opening of the veil. . opening the graves of saints that had the Spirit of Christ in them working in respect to the suffering bloody husband before hand .( 1 Peter 1:8-10)

Exodus 2:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to meSo he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

When the veil representing jesus foreflesh was rent from the top to the botom to show inspired from above and the nakeness holy of holies was revealed there was no Jewish King siting there as a daysman (Pope) fleshly infallible teaching master or interpreter.

I think the law of faith was established when the veil was rent . Believers look to the unseen eternal not that seen the temporal mixing the two making it one perfect law, the just and justier. The Father with the Son .

The Legion could no longer deceive all the nation of the whole world that we do need a man to teach us .That does not mean he will not continue to accuse the brethren day and night as he did in Job 1 until the last day But again he will not deceive all the nation that Jewish flesh could profit for something when we are already informed; Jesus said of his own flesh it profits zero.

They received the end of their new faith from the beging just as us .They look ahead by the power as it is written we look back to the same viel representing our bloody husband .

1 Peter1: 8 -10Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:1 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow

The glorious resurrection gate remains open till the last day under the Sun .The veil will not be stitched back together. One demonstration was promised. Some did know Christ after the flesh we know him that way no more forever. God is not a man as us.

I would think there is no need to seek after sign. Signs cannot do any more than make a person wonder or doubt according to those who seek after wonderments or marveling and not after faith the unseen things of God, as it is written . .
 
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