Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.Or is it the number of those who were faithful to Christ?
Neither. The last thing it is referring to is 144 000 special / faithful people to reign with Jesus. That suggestion brings about many questions of God. In His omniscience He invited all to be saved and reign with Him but knew it was limited to 144k. Why did John not say ''for God so loved the world that 144k will reign with Him as royal priests and the rest be stuck on earth or annihlated''? There are many more such questions we can ask of Jesus, Paul and the disciples. Why in the universe were they not clear to us on this? Maybe because it has absolutely nothing to do with us?All people who have ever lived from the earth was created till the rapture. Or is it the number of those who were faithful to Christ?
Neither. The last thing it is referring to is 144 000 special / faithful people to reign with Jesus. That suggestion brings about many questions of God. In His omniscience He invited all to be saved and reign with Him but knew it was limited to 144k. Why did John not say ''for God so loved the world that 144k will reign with Him as royal priests and the rest be stuck on earth or annihlated''? There are many more such questions we can ask of Jesus, Paul and the disciples. Why in the universe were they not clear to us on this? Maybe because it has absolutely nothing to do with us?
Every saved person is part of the '''Royal Priesthood''.
1 Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.
To suggest some of us will be on earth and 144k reign... for me it shows a complete lack of understanding in what exactly the blood of Jesus was needed for / bought us. His blood bought us the greatest gift possible. A creation can be united with its God on a blood covenant basis. It is the devils goal to mock and confuse the cross. Dumb down what Jesus did / accomplished for mankind. The devil has managed to turn grace into religiosity with Jehovah witnesses.
I have one question for JW's....John was the greatest man ever born of woman according to Jesus. But yet whoever is least in the kingdom of God is greater then him Matt 11:11.
Agreed. But all who are saved reign with Him. Making the biggest gripe that JW's believe some are fully saved and others half saved...? All who are saved are destined to be adopted sons and joint heirs Eph 1:5, Rom 8:17.Well it does say the way to heaven is narrow.. While the path to hell is broad .. It also says MANY are called but FEW are chosen..
Yes god desires everyone to be saved but many dont want it/reject him
Yes, you are on track.
You are exactly rt!!The term Christian, although used sparingly in the new testament, did not really gain traction until the end of the first century. In a biblical sense, I think there is no distinction between being a true Jew and a Christian. In the epistles of Paul, we find comments such as "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." - Rom 2:28,29. We see this same idea when Jesus says to the church of Philadelphia in Rev 3:9 "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."
Paul further states: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.' In Gal 3:28 , James, who you can say was the "General Conference president", addresses his epistle to both Jews and Gentiles in James 1:1 as follows: "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting."
The bible tells us that new covenant is only made with those who are of "Israel." "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." Jer 31:33. Paul establishes that this text is referring to all believers when he quotes it in Hebrews 10:16.
Therefore in light of these text and many others not mentioned, while trying to avoid all human constructs, I believe those described in Rev 7:5 are simply Christians (not literal Jews) that are alive and sealed just before the time of Christ second coming.
Finally, when you consider Jews today, hardly any "Jew can trace there lineage to the 12 tribes of Israel. The meticulous tracking of lineage that the Jews were known for in biblical times ended (probably in 70 A.D.) Many who are known as Jews come by way of conversion. There is even controversy over how to tell if someone is of modern Jewish descent. I would encourage you to research the historical roots of the Zionist movement, which orthodox Jews resisted from the onset.
Does Paul contradicts himself later in Romans chapters 10-11 when he begins referring to Israel??? (I know he doesn't .)
Through out Romans (and other NT books) he refers to Jews (Israel) and Gentiles (Greeks) separately...so I think you might out to look at the context in which he said that. I also seem to recall that Christ went to the Jews first and primarily....Gentiles were grafted in...which I believe is also in Romans. Salvation is only in Christ...but there does appear to be plan as far as time and order is concerned. Yes, Jews and Gentiles are equally redeemed and saved in Christ, but that does not eliminate the Biblically recognized distinction between the two.
Since that passage in Revelation very, very specifically mentions the tribes of Israel, it is not Biblically logical to ignore that and spin another meaning out of it that has nothing to do with the context. That does nothing but establish a pattern to make a passage say anything we want it to say to fit in with a theology we already have and are comfortable with. And saying that most Jewish people do not know what tribe they are from is not relevant either. Their Creator knows. There are today Jews of Israel coming to faith in Christ who do not know what tribe they are from, but that does not prevent them from being called, granted repentance and being saved.
I take it this is addressed to me. To take a verse out of context is to say it I applied a meaning to it that was not relevant to the passage it was extracted from. Therefore, I am going to kindly ask you to prove this accusation, perhaps by clarifying the context of a passage and then showing how it was that a verse I quoted was taken out of it's context.
I do not argue that the bible does not make a distinction between the Jews and Gentiles. What I argue is that there is no distinction between being a TRUE Jew and Christian. To be truly a Jew is to be truly a Christian. The parable of the the grafted branches (that you brought up) is a perfect example because the literal Jews were supposed to remain connected to the vine (Jesus) by faith (). Under the unction of the Holy Spirit, Paul takes a page from the old testament and Jesus words in when he teaches this object lesson. Let's briefly dissect this verse:
" Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:"
Why were the they (the literal Jews) broken off?
"because of unbelief they were broken off"
And how are the gentiles grafted in?
"and thou standest by faith"
If the Jews lost their connection by being faithless, how were they ever connected in the first place? Is it not by faith? It was indeed faith for it has never ever been that Jews were saved by there lineage but only by faith--from Genesis to Revelation. It was only by faith that a Jew could be said to be truly a Jew, just as it is by faith that a Christian can only be truly Christian. He can profess by name to be Christian and he will be recognized by the world as such but in the books of heaven it will be a different story if he has not a living faith. This is why John the baptist would say in "And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." Therefore, we can say Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Jospeh, Moses, Samuel, Samson... David etc.. were as truly a Jew as they were truly a Christian. Of David, Jesus says he was a "man after His own heart." Of Moses, Jesus says that he wrote about Him.
Just like very very specifically mentions the tribes of Israel. Yet James audience in that letter is not the literal tribe of Israel. Over 30% of revelation are quotes taken directly from the old testament, one must have spiritual discernment to understand and . In terms of not knowing what tribe they are from, it is deeper then that. The implication is that it is highly unlikely that a pure Jewish lineage from biblical times exist today. Especially when you include intermingling and "converted Jews". Of course we can say all things are possible with God, but before doing that it would first be best to see if we are interpreting correctly was God is saying in the first place.
Blessings my friend
and with love,
If this was addressed to me,.....well, thank you for your reply.Well, if you think about it, people have always done that.
I agree, however this Jewish lad did not do this.As far as viewing Jesus from a Jewish perspective (when taking it from the Hebrew Scriptures) I don't think that is totally wrong.
Yes, you are on track.Yes, you are on track.
There are some rather fanciful and speculative postings here about 144,000 Jewish male virgins being a witness to
modern Israel (Judah) or to the rest of the world being blown away by a hypothetical 7 year tribulation.
But it is in my belief /understanding that the figure is allegorical and represents the gathering in of the complete Church to Jesus when he returns to gather the elect and to come into Jerusalem.