The HOLY BIBLE

Many years ago (about 35), when I was a young man, new to trusting the Lord. and new to Studying His word, an issue divided many of the Christians and congregations in my home town. It wasn't anything that hasn't been discussed and debated among those that identify themselves as believers. Each viewpoint had supporting scripture, and many had alternative interpretations for the scripture cited by the other side. The exact issue is beside the point.

Another young person at my church began weeping over the division and said something like "I wonder why the Bible was not clearer and just said outright what was right".

The answer was and remains that if the Bible unambiguously contained all answers to questions concerning the Christian Life, we would never bring such things before God in Prayer. We would never see the Lord's leading in the occurrences of our daily life. We would become even more legalistic and ready to make those that disagreed to be spiritual casualties in some kind of ware of orthodoxy.

The Bible is to help us learn from the Holy Spirit speaking to our individual hearts, not a replacement for the Spirit, or an arbiter of conformity.
 
The primary reason why there is so much division contention and strife in the church is as Paul said it. "ye are yet carnal" and still need to be taught the rudimentary things of God .Or the Milk of the Word.When ye should be teachers. He is talking to CHRISTIANS
When he spoke of teachers in this context he is saying that ALL true BORN children of God by the Water(Word) and the Spirit of God should become teachers of the same basic doctrines or principles of God. So that each and every child of God should be able not only to give a good account of themselves "of the hope "that lieth with in them" but teach others the same principles .
Of repentance from dead works ,and of faith towards God ,of the doctrines of baptismS , and of laying on of hands and of resurection of the dead and of eternal judgment. Hebrews chapter 6.
But as it is also written "and are become such as need of milk and not of strong meat. And this is the cruncher . "For every one that useth milk is unskillful in the Word of righteousness for he is a babe .
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age ,even those who by reason of use have their senses excersised to discern both good and evil" Hebrews 5.
"To be carnally minded is death but to the spiritually minded is life and peace" Romans 8:6
"Because the carnal mind is at emnity against God , for it is not subject to the law of God or can be " Romans 8:7
and to repeat what I said at the beginning :
"For ye are yet carnal; for where as there is among you envying ,and strife and divisions ,are ye not yet carnal AND WALK AS MEN" 1 Cor 3:3.
Let it be clear on this point that Paul is speaking to Christians not to the unsaved or Godless but to the BORNagain and to BABES in Christ.
1Cor 3:1 And I brethren (!) could not (and now cannot(?) speak unto you as spiritual ,but as unto carnal,EVEN AS UNTO BABES IN CHRIST"
Its no use trying to 'debate' it all away and talk it out of its strength . Paul is speaking to CHRISTIANS who are BORNagain but are as yet carnal .
To be BORNagain is to be BORN again spiritually . But that does NOT mean that your minds are spiritual . But rather we have to be "renewed in our minds " How? By the Word of God and the Spirit of God. We are BORNagain by the same and we needs must grow by the same also.
There is no other reason for the strife and the endless debates where no one ever comes to a knowledge fo the truth .
But rather each thinks they are teachers and the final arbiter of the truth . while giving lip service to the principle that the scriptures are the final authority in all matters of "sound doctrine " and foundation for faith in and towards God.
Yet while making many claims are as babes at best . At worst do not even know the Lord at all.
It is worth noting also that Paul says by reason of use able to discern both good and evil. If you compare how Adam and Eve while given Gods knowledge of good and evil they by reason of deceit chose to do what was good in their own eyes .and reasoned thus it would make them wise .
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. It would therefore be reasonable to say that there is very little fear of God in much if not all of the debates that are simply strivings after the flesh . and as not only did they become blind to the truth but their reasoning was also off piste as well. For rather than become wise they became fools .
The HOLY Bible is above all a revelation of God Himself . It is also GODS wisdom as to what is good and what is evil. and what was denied in the garden of Eden is still the same . God has not changed and we are if Christs to walk in the light of Gods Word and according to what God says is good and evil. Not according to our own perceptions and reasonings . Save till they have been brought into line as it were with Gods . Even as it was in the beginning .
But who today believes what God says in the beginning? Most of the church and professign christians have compromised with the world for a peace sake mixing truth with error at best (?) or worst believes the world and not God . "Who is from the beginning"
In truth all versions of the Bible save two get it wrong at the very first verse.
What hope then has any of clear and sequential thought in the things of God when "all we like sheep have gone astray each going his own way" Yet strangely when they do they tend to all go in the wrong direction.

We therefore have to face it . Unpleasant though it is . That the church thinks one thing and God another .
The church : I am rich increased in goods and in need of nothing "
The Spirit of God : Ye are poor wretched blind and in need of eye salve and you do not even know it ...."
and where as most of the church is stamping its feet and 'celebrating' and is caught up in great delusions of false doctrines by false apostles and prophets making every one conceited with the idea that all are leaders prophets etc who like Baalam prophecy for money "but not of me says the Lord" or else embracing those great errors of Rome once again that were proved to eb so false at the reformation by Biblical argument and by her own murderous reactions to the truth .

"Behold I stand at the door and knock " This is the Spirit of God speaking to the church .
The knocking on the church door is a call to repent .
For the church thinks the Lord is inside .and if it is considered that after the resurection no locked and closed doors were a barrier to Him. You have to consider why the Lord is knocking on the door .
So the knocking on the door is a call to repent to all inside.
The promise however is to them "who have ears to hear and open the door. " To THEM will i come and sup with....
Only God and the Spirit of God can wrought what needs to be wrought . For it was while we was yet without strength and at emnity with God that Jesus died for us.
THAT is love and God commends it unto us .
IF my people will humble themselves and pray ,and confess their sins THEN will I forgive their sins and heal the land.
The church needs a true God given heaven sent revival.
Nothing else will cut the mustard.

For if we are" all to come to a unity of the faith" Then there needs must also be a unity of understanding . Not just of the milk of the Word but also of the strong meat .
Babes do not go to war or indeed get "married"
To have the same mind is not all agreeing with me or another . But to "let this mind be in you a sit was in Christ"
But to be in submission to the Spirit of God and willing to be led by HIM into all truth " For He knows the mind of God and the deep things of God"
If there be strife and division then it is because each man is wise in his own eyes and it would say in deed if not in word we need not the Holy Spirit to lead us . For have need of nothing.

in Christ
gerald
 
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We can see that people cannot be one in their interpretation of what they read in the Holy Bible.
Could it be that God wants us to rely on HIM, since we cannot help but depend on our "intellect and feeling"?
This is HUMAN WISDOM that God shows His displeasure, as we read in:
1 Cor 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1 Cor 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God...
 
grigoryamitai said:
We can see that people cannot be one in their interpretation of what they read in the Holy Bible.
Could it be that God wants us to rely on HIM, since we cannot help but depend on our "intellect and feeling"?
This is HUMAN WISDOM that God shows His displeasure, as we read in:
1 Cor 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1 Cor 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God...
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I think a reason for disunity of interpretation is that we gain understanding in waves or levels. For instance, one may learn in the New Testament that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. But one may not know the basis for it in the Old Testament. This is a more obvious example just to show the dilemma of the learning curve we all have. The Holy Spirit cannot throw all the knowledge at you at once. Our brains could not possibly handle the volume.
The wide ranging topics which the Bible touches on is also a problem to consolidate. One may be advanced on the concept of grace and mercy, but not on prophetic events. On and on, the members of the body all need to do their part, not trying to be one of the other members. So in the same vein, all the different denominations could be looked at, in a macro POV, as members of the body of Christ and each have their role.
 
Big Moose said:
I think a reason for disunity of interpretation is that we gain understanding in waves or levels. For instance, one may learn in the New Testament that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. But one may not know the basis for it in the Old Testament. This is a more obvious example just to show the dilemma of the learning curve we all have. The Holy Spirit cannot throw all the knowledge at you at once. Our brains could not possibly handle the volume.
The wide ranging topics which the Bible touches on is also a problem to consolidate. One may be advanced on the concept of grace and mercy, but not on prophetic events. On and on, the members of the body all need to do their part, not trying to be one of the other members. So in the same vein, all the different denominations could be looked at, in a macro POV, as members of the body of Christ and each have their role.
Click to expand...

Good thought Moose. I agree with you.
 
There are clues that, indeed, MAN cannot and should not use his "intellect and feeling" that GOD calls:
Gen_2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And so, this is what we hear from GOD;
James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
James 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

God's rebuke:
1 Cor 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1 Cor 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God...
 
Moose,
There is sense in what you say up to a point.
But it leaves out the fact that the Word of God says that the Holy Spirit of truth abides in ever believer who are true BORN sons of God and he has come to abide with us forever .
and by HIM we "we know the spirit of error"
It is also by Him that we are led into all truth
as it is also by him we need have no one to teach us as to what is good and what is evil or then what is true and what is not.
Much of the problem is that many who are still "babes in Christ" and are then "yet carnal" have been so pushed along and inflated by well meaning but misleading men that they are not what they say they are either in understanding or maturity.
Some others have been misled also into thinking that if they but learn Greek and Hebrew then they will understand the scriptures.

But to get back to the Holy Spirit who abides in us.
You are right in that there are levels of maturity and understanding .But that does not excuse the divisions and the strife. .
For while the level of our understanding may indeed differ the same Holy Spirit that bore witness with our spirit that we are now the children of God . is the same Holy Spirit that can and will and does bare witness to the truth when it is spoken and when it is heard, as it also will bear witness of the spirit of error .
Thus it can be understood that if the truth is spoken the Holy Spirit will bear witness with ours the truth of it albeit we may not understand WHY it is so .
If then we have that witness we can THEN ask God for the wisdom and understanding of that which the Holy Spirit speaks of.
Whether the truth or be it why it is wrong.

This also has to be said.
That the same holy Spirit who was so faithful in leading is to understand the truth about ourselves without God much to our discomfort and grief was then also faithful to lead us to understand our need of a saviour and then to a knowledge and understanding of Gods provision and then of Christ.
The milk of the word is not of a different order than the meat of the word .
and no truth we know as a babe in Christ will contradict or be out of harmony we will come to know as we grow in grace and in the knowledge of God . As much as no laws of physics is out of harmony with another and all . For each law dovetails perfectly and works also together with any other law .
So also no truth in Christ is or can be out of harmony or contradict any other truth but each will and is and does work together will all other truths we come to know .
Jesus said when the Holy Spirit shall come he will lead us into all truth and when you know the truth the truth shall make you free"
It has to be understood what this 'knowing ' is .
It is the same knowing as "Adam knew his wife Eve"
It is the same knowing as when you eat bread not just look and admire it .
It is the same as drinking water not thinking about it .
It is the same as getting your feet wet not sitting on the beach with your shoes on.
God goodness is past finding out it is written is it not?
Yet it is also written "Oh taste and see (understand) that the Lord is good"
"God is good to all the sons of men" But not all men know it . Nor do any understand that his goodness is to lead men to repentance .

The cause of the strife and the division then is not then about differences of maturity .
Its cause is as the scriptures say it is .
For when the truth is spoken in Christ and according to ALL scripture .No matter what your 'age' each child of God should know and recognise the truth of it and God will give what each is in need of from it .
But often the truth is rejected because another says it or because it does not conform to ones own thinking and primarily? it is because the people of God are not taught in the things of God but have assumed that to be BORN again is the be all and end all of our Salvation . Others that baptism is the be all and end all . others that the filling of the Holy Spirit is the be all and end all .Others that the gifts are the be all and end all and others its the book of Daniel and certain verses and any thing out of that remit is false .
Many do not know God as in knowing God ;they have but heard of Him as Job had and others.
Jacob had heard of God he had been in the place where God was but did not know it.
But he came to that place where he met God and 'bethel ' became El bethel .The God of the house of God.
Samuel had from the day of his weaning had been in the temple of God and as he grew up had ministered in the house of God and to Eli.
But the scriptures say he knew not the Lord nor was the Word revealed unto him.
Every child of God has not only to hear of him but must also come to know Him.

"Little children ye know the father and your sins are forgiven"
"Ye young men the word of God abideth in your richly and you have overcome the wicked one "

Ye fathers ye know Him who is from the beginning"
Surely you might think if you know the father then you know Him who is from the beginning?
According to the scriptures , no.
Indeed if you do not believe Him who "in the beginning" gave by inspiration the record of the beginning .How then can you know Him who was?
For he that receiveth the Word that was spoken receives also Him who spake it.
But if you receive not His words then how do you say you know Him?
But many of Gods people for the sake of peace with the world or the love of it have at best compromised with the world and at worst have believed the world rather than God.

The church then in the main does not know God as they think they do.
and that is another reason for the strife and division.
Little children ye know the father . Praise the Lord .
But far better surely is to so filled with the Word of God and it abiding in you and in its right order and context that you have overcome the wicked one .
But surely the best is to know Him who is from the beginning .
Getting out of Egypt after 400 years of cruel bondage ;wonderful!
Getting to learn to walk with God even better !
to enter the promise is that not even the best?
For then you are fulfilling that for which you was created for. and thus truly glorify God.

in Christ
gerald
 
JG27_chili said:
The Bible is an instruction manual on how to live your life.
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Amen !!
Key word here.........Instruction Manual
Follow the Instructions of the creator and get the desired results the Creator has in place.

Do things any other way and The Results that God The Creator put into place Will Not Function.

Trust the Instructions "How To" From the Master Builder and Creator Him self.
Blessings
FCJ
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Amen !!
Key word here.........Instruction Manual
Follow the Instructions of the creator and get the desired results the Creator has in place.

Do things any other way and The Results that God The Creator put into place Will Not Function.

Trust the Instructions "How To" From the Master Builder and Creator Him self.
Blessings
FCJ
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Is that like when we buy something new and open it and then throw the instruction manual away and try to figure it out on our own?
 
Hello there,

I think of the words of Paul to Timothy,

'But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned
and hast been assured of,
knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,
which are able to make thee wise unto salvation
through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.'
(2 Tim 3:14-17)

Division occurs when we fail to discern what specifically applies to the dispensation in which we belong, and bring in doctrines and practices which either apply to a dispensation that is past, or is yet to come. (eg., Law - grace - judgement)

The whole of Scripture has one object - to bring mankind to a knowledge of God, in and through Christ Jesus, His only begotten Son, and to make known His purpose, His will and His ways.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Complete said:
Division occurs when we fail to discern what specifically applies to the dispensation in which we belong, and bring in doctrines and practices which either apply to a dispensation that is past, or is yet to come. (eg., Law - grace - judgement)
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The other things that bring division are the spirit of division and strife and also people who choose to believe someone else's opinion (man's opinion) over what the Word of God really says.
Many people have been used by the enemy to sow incorrect interpretations of the Word of God into the church. And believers who don't take the time to verify everything spoken, fall for the lies because they don't know any better.

It's very important to check everything said against the Word and to also check with the Holy Spirit. To read and meditate on the Word asking the Holy Spirit to show one the truth. If we choose to be lazy in regards to the Word, we will ultimately stay in error and be deceived by the enemy.
 
Cturtle said:
The other things that bring division are the spirit of division and strife and also people who choose to believe someone else's opinion (man's opinion) over what the Word of God really says.
Many people have been used by the enemy to sow incorrect interpretations of the Word of God into the church. And believers who don't take the time to verify everything spoken, fall for the lies because they don't know any better.

It's very important to check everything said against the Word and to also check with the Holy Spirit. To read and meditate on the Word asking the Holy Spirit to show one the truth. If we choose to be lazy in regards to the Word, we will ultimately stay in error and be deceived by the enemy.
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Amen! Too many people believe what sounds good to them.

We live in a society of "Cafeteria Christians". We pick and choose what we like and can do and reject those things that we do not want to do or like to think about.
 
Complete said:
Hello there,

I think of the words of Paul to Timothy,

'But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned
and hast been assured of,
knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,
which are able to make thee wise unto salvation
through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.'
(2 Tim 3:14-17)

Division occurs when we fail to discern what specifically applies to the dispensation in which we belong, and bring in doctrines and practices which either apply to a dispensation that is past, or is yet to come. (eg., Law - grace - judgement)

The whole of Scripture has one object - to bring mankind to a knowledge of God, in and through Christ Jesus, His only begotten Son, and to make known His purpose, His will and His ways.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Click to expand...

Amen!
 
The Bible is the book of all books, the guide of all guides and the Word of God.
What is it to God? I'd say an autobiography. What is it to us? It is the foundation for us to live our lives by, as it instructs, guides and helps us through almost every situation.
 
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