THE INNER ROOM - "Learn and Grow - to Maturity". Please read the 1st Post.
- Thread starter Bondman
- Start date
- Status
Aw, I finally get a chance to get on, and your gone!
Oh well. I know you'll get back later! hee!
Hey, I always thought holiness and right living were the same things! I guess they are so close in definition its hard to seperate them.
Hmmm, learn something new everyday!
Yes it can sometimes be a bit difficult to catch us upside-down Down Under people - but then again it's the same for us in reverse! We're asleep when you're awake and vice versa! Did God really have to make it like THAT? *hmm...*
Praying, and hoping things are going well with the family. Lotsa love!
- BM
P.S. Still dunno where everyone's gone (tho Robin's probly buried in her study books). At the moment every time I speak here in the Inner Room my voice echoes all round the place - cos it's so EMPTY!!! *tries to laugh, but that echoes as well...* *still lonely, sob*
M
Mark_18
Guest
I'm here with you Bondman and I love you!!!!
My List
Oh, Bondman, thank you for reminding me about checking scripture for myself. I always did that before. I think I was just so glad to be helped in a deliverance ministry that I ended up trusting everything that was said instead of being cautious. I will have to revise this author's list I guess. Hope it will still be uplifting.
We leave on our trip on Sunday for London. I will be able to study a lot because we will be doing a lot of waiting around for flights. I will make my list then. I wish I had a laptop, but, I will probably be able to find a computer on the bases and can print my list out then.
Don't be lonely, Bond (James Bond) Be happy and visit some of the new posts while you can. Again, thanx for pointing me in the right direction. Bonnie :israel:
Oh, Bondman, thank you for reminding me about checking scripture for myself. I always did that before. I think I was just so glad to be helped in a deliverance ministry that I ended up trusting everything that was said instead of being cautious. I will have to revise this author's list I guess. Hope it will still be uplifting.
We leave on our trip on Sunday for London. I will be able to study a lot because we will be doing a lot of waiting around for flights. I will make my list then. I wish I had a laptop, but, I will probably be able to find a computer on the bases and can print my list out then.
Don't be lonely, Bond (James Bond)
Be happy and visit some of the new posts while you can. Again, thanx for pointing me in the right direction. Bonnie :israel:I'm here with you Bondman and I love you!!!!
Oh, thankyou SO much, Mark!!! I love you too! *feels muchbetter* *and hey, my voice has stopped echoing off all the walls, yee-harrr!!!*
Oh, Bondman, thank you for reminding me about checking scripture for myself. I always did that before. I think I was just so glad to be helped in a deliverance ministry that I ended up trusting everything that was said instead of being cautious. I will have to revise this author's list I guess. Hope it will still be uplifting.
We leave on our trip on Sunday for London. I will be able to study a lot because we will be doing a lot of waiting around for flights. I will make my list then. I wish I had a laptop, but, I will probably be able to find a computer on the bases and can print my list out then.
Don't be lonely, Bond (James Bond)
You're SO welcome, sweetie! I've figured for years that I may as well share with as many as I can how to avoid all the traps that I fell into over a long long period!! Oh man...
You're travelling, wow! 'James Bond' *hee!* is gonna miss you like crazy then, isn't he!! *can't bear to think about it...*
On most other forums I've been on I would go to various threads. What then happens is that I read - then can't help myself, and have to post! Then I have to go back to read responses of course. This then builds up until soon I'm just about full-time on that (or those) threads!
If I started doing this now, then The Inner Room would be totally empty in about a month flat: I'd not have time to be here, and others would then drift away. That is, I have to resolutely FOCUS on the ministry He's called me to - and I can tell you that I do NOT find that easy! I LONG to visit other threads, but cannot!
No Worries!
There are always computers on the AirForce Bases where we stay. I'll still be checking up on ya! So, behave yourselves! No talking behind my back, ya hear?
There are always computers on the AirForce Bases where we stay. I'll still be checking up on ya! So, behave yourselves! No talking behind my back, ya hear?
M
Mark_18
Guest
I think I underestimate the experience you guys have with your advice and the things you've seen and the places you've been in your lives. I thank you so very much for sharing your wisdom.
There are always computers on the AirForce Bases where we stay. I'll still be checking up on ya! So, behave yourselves! No talking behind my back, ya hear?
Goodness you're up late, sweetie!
We ALWAYS behave ourselves - thought you'd have realised that by now!! *hahah* Talking behind backs is verbotenin The IR so you're safe on that one! lol
How long are you flitting off for?
Hmm... yes, I spose there are some who would say that they've 'been there done that' as Believers! What tends to shock me tho, Mark, is how long I've taken to get to see and understand many, many Spiritual things. Sure, I HAVE had to do it all on my own these 50 long years, because of the fact that not at any point in my life have I had a Pastor or Minister who was further ahead in his Christian life than I was - to be able to teach me how to go further. Which is rather shocking when you think of it, hey!
So for poor ole BM it's always been 'pull meself up by me own bootstraps' - and that's sure been HARD! But good at the same time. Two ways you learn things GOOD! - if you have to learn it the HARD way you've usually got it forever! If you have to learn it by yourself, when you finally DO get there, then you've got it forever!
So I'm not complaining! What excites me out of my brain is where I AM now in Jesus by and because of God's grace and help. Never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined living the Christian life with joy and peace and love and hope like I now do! GOD IS SO GOOD!!
Love ya, man. You can grow to a place of Spiritual maturity in Christ into your future. Look forward to it, work toward it, seek for more and more of Him, be prepared to ENDURE the hardships necessary to get there - and this CAN happen for you!!
- BM
PRACTICAL NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANITY
MESSAGE #58
THE WORD OF GOD
It seems like we sinful humans have little to no idea how to actually READ and STUDY to truly understand the Scriptures.
1. There are the left-wing liberal types who choose which parts to believe and which to NOT believe. Like Church of England (Anglican) bishops/priests in England who at different times come out with astonishing statements like not believing in the resurrection, and even worse!
2. There are also the sects who choose which parts they are going to focus on and STRESS - as well as to leave out. Do you realise that if you OVER-STRESS just a few verses and passages you can EASILY change the whole message of the Bible!! Smaller sects have done this for years, and a larger denomination is doing this right now.
3. Then there are the 'misinterpreters' and 'careless' ones who either don't really want to find the truth, our just don't seem to want to take the time to read and study carefully. The quotes by Dr Anderson a few posts back appear to be a sad example of the latter. But trust me, he's far from being the only one like this (and you do need to carefully watch for this).
Alright then, which of these groups of people are the most dangerous to us? ALL OF THEM ARE!! For unless we:
(a) ENSURE that we are surrendered to Jesus as Lord of our lives, and
(b) trust the Holy Spirit to INTERPRET and REVEAL the truth to us, and
(c) seriously work, over time, at learning HOW to STUDY the Scriptures for ourselves,
then we are never going to know, and be sure that we are sitting on TRUTH rather than a pile of UNTRUTH!
QUESTION: How far do you think that believing errors will get you toward meeting Jesus in good shape in heaven? Answer is obvious, right!
Okay then, how far will learning the real TRUTH get you towards maybe even receiving that, "Well done, good and faithful servant!" when you get to heaven? Answer is obvious, right! *he!*
I so desperately want to see us all treating God's precious Word - and particularly the New Testament - with the greatest of care and respect, and ENSURING THAT WE GET THE TRUTH RIGHT as far as we possibly can - with His help!!
Gotta go read and study in Hebrews. Love yez all, and cya later!
- BM, with his (v. sick) Lady
COMMENTS WELCOME!
Surrendering
I have learned so much in my walk to be a mature Christian. I continue to learn.
I am being honest this morning, that I feel a piece of me is still trying to hold on to what I want... and not relying on him 100%..
What I mean by this is:
I was apartment hunting the other day.. It was a nice place and all, when speaking with the Landlord, they stated they require a 2 year lease.. I got an application to fill out.. when I left.. I found the nearest parking lot pulled over and started to bawl.
Why you might ask? Well I felt by potentially signing a 2 year lease that "MY" life would be put on hold. You see I am in a dating relationship, have been for almost 2 years now.. my heart's desire is to be married again, to have a family unit.. to not be alone, to wake up every day, come home every day to a husband, to have someone to hold me, cherish me etc.. you get the picture? The Lord really has blessed me.. he truly has.. I have come great strides in my walk with him.. I must admit that the sexual purity one and others can be frustrating at times.. You see there is a part of me that still wants things in "my' time.. I had thought that I had let go of the majority of that.. but it came rushing back in to me.. However, after praying and such it was good.. it really made me truly look at the relationship I was in and what it was all about.. as the Lord has worked on other things there as well.
MORE IMPORTANTLY:=- IT MADE ME LOOK AT WHERE I AM WITH MY WALK WITH HIM.. HE WANTS IT ALL.. NOT JUST 90%.. UNTIL I GET TO THAT POINT.. UNTIL WE ALL GET TO THAT POINT. WE WILL STRUGGLE..
Life is to short.. each day is ticking away.. I ask myself this morning:
Do you remeber your dreams? Do you really want to?
How am I going to get there?
Well the answer is simple.. but I try to make it complicated. Trust in him, give it all to him.. walk each moment of life with him..
I will start this morning with reminding myself with the message of Bondmans that I quoted.
But more importantly.. I need to focus on what the Lord's dream for me is.. his is simple.. not complicated.. he just wants me.. me and my heart.. 100%..by doing that.. he will continue to bless me and see the desires of my heart.
Glory be to the father this morning!
Robin
I have learned so much in my walk to be a mature Christian. I continue to learn.
I am being honest this morning, that I feel a piece of me is still trying to hold on to what I want... and not relying on him 100%..
What I mean by this is:
I was apartment hunting the other day.. It was a nice place and all, when speaking with the Landlord, they stated they require a 2 year lease.. I got an application to fill out.. when I left.. I found the nearest parking lot pulled over and started to bawl.
Why you might ask? Well I felt by potentially signing a 2 year lease that "MY" life would be put on hold. You see I am in a dating relationship, have been for almost 2 years now.. my heart's desire is to be married again, to have a family unit.. to not be alone, to wake up every day, come home every day to a husband, to have someone to hold me, cherish me etc.. you get the picture? The Lord really has blessed me.. he truly has.. I have come great strides in my walk with him.. I must admit that the sexual purity one and others can be frustrating at times.. You see there is a part of me that still wants things in "my' time.. I had thought that I had let go of the majority of that.. but it came rushing back in to me.. However, after praying and such it was good.. it really made me truly look at the relationship I was in and what it was all about.. as the Lord has worked on other things there as well.
MORE IMPORTANTLY:=- IT MADE ME LOOK AT WHERE I AM WITH MY WALK WITH HIM.. HE WANTS IT ALL.. NOT JUST 90%.. UNTIL I GET TO THAT POINT.. UNTIL WE ALL GET TO THAT POINT. WE WILL STRUGGLE..
Life is to short.. each day is ticking away.. I ask myself this morning:
Do you remeber your dreams? Do you really want to?
How am I going to get there?
Well the answer is simple.. but I try to make it complicated. Trust in him, give it all to him.. walk each moment of life with him..
I will start this morning with reminding myself with the message of Bondmans that I quoted.
But more importantly.. I need to focus on what the Lord's dream for me is.. his is simple.. not complicated.. he just wants me.. me and my heart.. 100%..by doing that.. he will continue to bless me and see the desires of my heart.
Glory be to the father this morning!
Robin
I have learned so much in my walk to be a mature Christian. I continue to learn.
I am being honest this morning, that I feel a piece of me is still trying to hold on to what I want... and not relying on him 100%..
What I mean by this is:
I was apartment hunting the other day.. It was a nice place and all, when speaking with the Landlord, they stated they require a 2 year lease.. I got an application to fill out.. when I left.. I found the nearest parking lot pulled over and started to bawl.
Why you might ask? Well I felt by potentially signing a 2 year lease that "MY" life would be put on hold. You see I am in a dating relationship, have been for almost 2 years now.. my heart's desire is to be married again, to have a family unit.. to not be alone, to wake up every day, come home every day to a husband, to have someone to hold me, cherish me etc.. you get the picture? The Lord really has blessed me.. he truly has.. I have come great strides in my walk with him.. I must admit that the sexual purity one and others can be frustrating at times.. You see there is a part of me that still wants things in "my' time.. I had thought that I had let go of the majority of that.. but it came rushing back in to me.. However, after praying and such it was good.. it really made me truly look at the relationship I was in and what it was all about.. as the Lord has worked on other things there as well.
MORE IMPORTANTLY:=- IT MADE ME LOOK AT WHERE I AM WITH MY WALK WITH HIM.. HE WANTS IT ALL.. NOT JUST 90%.. UNTIL I GET TO THAT POINT.. UNTIL WE ALL GET TO THAT POINT. WE WILL STRUGGLE..
Life is to short.. each day is ticking away.. I ask myself this morning:
Do you remeber your dreams? Do you really want to?
How am I going to get there?
Well the answer is simple.. but I try to make it complicated. Trust in him, give it all to him.. walk each moment of life with him..
I will start this morning with reminding myself with the message of Bondmans that I quoted.
But more importantly.. I need to focus on what the Lord's dream for me is.. his is simple.. not complicated.. he just wants me.. me and my heart.. 100%..by doing that.. he will continue to bless me and see the desires of my heart.
Glory be to the father this morning!
Robin
Wow, that's an incredibly honest appraisement of your life, dear one!! Thankyou for sharing it with us. We can then pray for you.
"You know Robin's heart, Lord. You see who she is, and how much she wants all of You. But You know how hard it is dealing with the flesh and it's wants cos You lived down here, and experienced all of that. May Your love and understanding of what she's going through, and Your power that is in her, help her to the place she wants, and You want. Thankyou, Lord Jesus, for hearing our prayers!"
- BM
PRACTICAL NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANITY
MESSAGE #59
LOSE - AND SAVE YOUR LIFE
I simply have to write about Robin's situation, because it's something every one of us knows in our lives. What we want can be SO hard to relinquish. We know full well that it's the only way to go, yet still the flesh says Yes to what we want, and No to the way we know is right. We all experience this. It's hardly abnormal!
And it just occurred to me this minute that this can often be exactly what STOPS many people from becoming a Christian, i.e., WHAT THEY SEE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO GIVE UP!! And that is SO understandable! I will lose this... and that... oh, and that too. Oh NO!!! They can't see that what you will gain is BETTER - SO MUCH BETTER - than what you may give up. Jesus said:
Mark Ch 8
35 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it.
This same strong truth is written in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) an amazing FOUR times! I can't seen any ambivalence about what He's saying, can you?
.. Save your life, and you'll lose it.
.. Lose you life for My sake, and you'll save it.
Is "for My sake" important there? I THINK SO!!! And Robin is totally right: it's either 100% - or nothing! Not only will we continue to struggle if only 90% is given to Him, but we'll never have any decent PEACE either. To start with, your struggling will ensure that! But what we ALL NEED is ALL of Jesus. Not just part!
Here's what we have WRONG. We think that our life is about US! IT'S NOT!! That's a totally useless and ultimately dangerous position to be holding in our minds and hearts! Life is about JESUS. And being with Him for eternity.
Change over to this very different perception about life -and then - but not UNTIL then - will you make it to that place of experiencing for the very first time the INCREDIBLE PEACEFULNESS, RELAXATION AND RESTFULNESS IN BEING COMPLETELY GIVEN OVER TO JESUS!!!
Experience that and you'll never be the same again, and will NEVER wish to go back to struggling with "what I want!" NEVER!!
- BM, with his Lady
COMMENTS WELCOME!
I guess it's my turn to "fess up" now since Robin did and share with ya'll what I am going through. I wrote what's below to Fluffy in a pm because I didn't think I wanted anyone else to know, but I felt in need of prayer. I'd even asked someone a while back if I had to go through what it seemed everyone else on this forum has gone through because I couldn't imagine ever being down again since I met Jesus. But, guess what . . .
"But, Oh, well. I'm going through a lot of "stuff" right now I guess. Been feeling kinda lost lately. I never thougt I'd get discouraged like I am because I was so high for a long time. I don't want anyone to know, though. Just you. I know I need to find my personal relationship with Heavenly Father somehow. I feel kinda far away. I feel uncomfortable in my own skin right now. I know that sounds odd. I don't even know how to express it. Just that I'm kinda not feeling like smiling, or victorious or something. Who knows. Don't worry, just pray for me. Thanks, Fluffy.
Ok, so there you have it. I'm "there" I guess. By the way, Fluffy's answer was so very good. She said it is a time of refining. I don't think I care too much being in a refining. But I realize I must depend on faith, not always feelings. Thanx for prayers. I guess we have all been here at one time or another and will be because this world is not our home.
"But, Oh, well. I'm going through a lot of "stuff" right now I guess. Been feeling kinda lost lately. I never thougt I'd get discouraged like I am because I was so high for a long time. I don't want anyone to know, though. Just you. I know I need to find my personal relationship with Heavenly Father somehow. I feel kinda far away. I feel uncomfortable in my own skin right now. I know that sounds odd. I don't even know how to express it. Just that I'm kinda not feeling like smiling, or victorious or something. Who knows. Don't worry, just pray for me. Thanks, Fluffy.
Ok, so there you have it. I'm "there" I guess. By the way, Fluffy's answer was so very good. She said it is a time of refining. I don't think I care too much being in a refining. But I realize I must depend on faith, not always feelings. Thanx for prayers. I guess we have all been here at one time or another and will be because this world is not our home.
Bonnie! I am so proud of you! It took a lot of courage to "fess up" like that!
Yep, refining is what I would call it, too. The refiner's fire it is sometimes referred as.
When we are down and discouraged, it doesnt do any good to act 'spiritual' and like everything is all hunky-dory when its not. Baby christians need to see the mature ones going thru hard times, too. That way, when it happens to them, they wont think something is terribly wrong with them, or "maybe I'm not saved after all!" type thing. I've seen that alot. Seen alot of young christians thinking that christianity is all about good times and everything coming up roses.
What a let down it is for them to see the reality! Its a fight. Its a battle against our own mind and wills. Its beating back the enemy.
Its life!
And it is a blessing to us to be able to pray for a brother or sister that is in need, too. It is a privelege and an honor.
Yep, refining is what I would call it, too. The refiner's fire it is sometimes referred as.
When we are down and discouraged, it doesnt do any good to act 'spiritual' and like everything is all hunky-dory when its not. Baby christians need to see the mature ones going thru hard times, too. That way, when it happens to them, they wont think something is terribly wrong with them, or "maybe I'm not saved after all!" type thing. I've seen that alot. Seen alot of young christians thinking that christianity is all about good times and everything coming up roses.
And it is a blessing to us to be able to pray for a brother or sister that is in need, too. It is a privelege and an honor.
Reading Bonnie's post, then Fluffy's response - which as Bonnie already said was SO good, and it sure was! - well, this all gave me pause for thought also.
It goes something like this. I've been around a long time. I've learnt a few things. I know where others can get to - and which God wants them to get to - in their walk with Him. Now here's the important bit: I never ever had a mentor to show ME what I've thus had to learn the long and hard way all by myself, so I do talk a lot here about what's possible for you, and how wonderful it is.
Okay, what I've not realised till reading the posts above is the other side of the coin. Cos God's taken me on to Spiritual maturity (which I'm now working on growing further into) I've not seen till now that I may seem to others, well, kind of "up there", which may easily enough make some folks feel that I can't relate to where THEY are - or in the reverse that they can't relate to where I am - and thus that I can't quite understand what it's like for them.
So may I please say a big sorry to anyone who, because of how I write, may feel that I can't really be "with them" in their trials (when actually I can), or worse still that maybe I may come across as somehow "above" you. I sure don't feel that at all!! And let me add here that when you've pretty-much been through it all like I have, I can totally assure you that you DON'T EVER forget what it was like! - the struggles; the times of feeling so down you're just about ready to go out of your mind; hardship piled upon hardship seemingly with no way out; not knowing how to connect to the Lord so as to get relief and help; more struggles, and even more; and so on and on.
Hmm... looks like it was time for "true confessions" in the IR, hey. Anyone else wanna join in?
With love to all!
- BM
It goes something like this. I've been around a long time. I've learnt a few things. I know where others can get to - and which God wants them to get to - in their walk with Him. Now here's the important bit: I never ever had a mentor to show ME what I've thus had to learn the long and hard way all by myself, so I do talk a lot here about what's possible for you, and how wonderful it is.
Okay, what I've not realised till reading the posts above is the other side of the coin. Cos God's taken me on to Spiritual maturity (which I'm now working on growing further into) I've not seen till now that I may seem to others, well, kind of "up there", which may easily enough make some folks feel that I can't relate to where THEY are - or in the reverse that they can't relate to where I am - and thus that I can't quite understand what it's like for them.
So may I please say a big sorry to anyone who, because of how I write, may feel that I can't really be "with them" in their trials (when actually I can), or worse still that maybe I may come across as somehow "above" you. I sure don't feel that at all!! And let me add here that when you've pretty-much been through it all like I have, I can totally assure you that you DON'T EVER forget what it was like! - the struggles; the times of feeling so down you're just about ready to go out of your mind; hardship piled upon hardship seemingly with no way out; not knowing how to connect to the Lord so as to get relief and help; more struggles, and even more; and so on and on.
Hmm... looks like it was time for "true confessions" in the IR, hey. Anyone else wanna join in?
With love to all!
- BM
New Class
I went to a new class at Church tonight and sure did learn a lot. By the way, I'm feeling so much better, thanx to God and for all your prayers.
The biggest thing I learned was that when Jesus was born a baby in the manger, and even when He was crucified, it was also God who was going through those things because the Father and Jesus are one. It was a new idea to me, even though I do believe in the Trinity now. It was just an eye opener to me. Have you all thought about this? I spose you have. But, it did bring up new questions also. Like, how was it that Jesus prayed to God and asked Him to remove "this cup?" And when God turned away from Jesus? I'll settle for any answer. I'm not doubting, just wondering.
This new study is on the Old Test. which is so hard for me to understand. The book is called "Be Amazed" by Warren W. Wiersbe. The other thing I learned is that all or most of the O.T. stories actually happened. I thought they were parables, like when Jonah was in the belly of the whale. And when the Red Sea was parted for the Israelites.
Anyway, I learned about a prophet who God told to marry a prostitute! Now, that made no sense to me. But then they told how it was commanded by God to try and convince the Jews that it is what they have done by worshipping other gods. And God was actually going to destroy all the Jews at one time because of their disobedience but one of the prophets talked Him out of it by explaining that the other people (Gentiles?) would never think of Him as a merciful God, destroying His own people!
Anyway, it was all very interesting and now I have more to read. I've also decided that I need to get back into the Word more often because I forgot how "magical" it is in the way it makes things better and brings you into worship. Four more days to "take-off." Violet, Jax, here I come!
I went to a new class at Church tonight and sure did learn a lot. By the way, I'm feeling so much better, thanx to God and for all your prayers.
The biggest thing I learned was that when Jesus was born a baby in the manger, and even when He was crucified, it was also God who was going through those things because the Father and Jesus are one. It was a new idea to me, even though I do believe in the Trinity now. It was just an eye opener to me. Have you all thought about this? I spose you have. But, it did bring up new questions also. Like, how was it that Jesus prayed to God and asked Him to remove "this cup?" And when God turned away from Jesus? I'll settle for any answer. I'm not doubting, just wondering.
This new study is on the Old Test. which is so hard for me to understand. The book is called "Be Amazed" by Warren W. Wiersbe. The other thing I learned is that all or most of the O.T. stories actually happened. I thought they were parables, like when Jonah was in the belly of the whale. And when the Red Sea was parted for the Israelites.
Anyway, I learned about a prophet who God told to marry a prostitute! Now, that made no sense to me. But then they told how it was commanded by God to try and convince the Jews that it is what they have done by worshipping other gods. And God was actually going to destroy all the Jews at one time because of their disobedience but one of the prophets talked Him out of it by explaining that the other people (Gentiles?) would never think of Him as a merciful God, destroying His own people!
Anyway, it was all very interesting and now I have more to read. I've also decided that I need to get back into the Word more often because I forgot how "magical" it is in the way it makes things better and brings you into worship. Four more days to "take-off." Violet, Jax, here I come!
PRACTICAL NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANITY
MESSAGE #60
THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT - Part 1
The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible. It's a word that's been coined to try and explain what cannot ultimately be explained: how we have three Persons Who the Word says are "one" - but at the same time are still "separate" individuals. FACT: God is SO MUCH BIGGER AND GREATER THAN US - to understand Him you'd need to BE God *silly!* and this is one example of things we simply cannot fully comprehend.
One example that's used to try and help is that a man can be a husband, son and father at the same time. Three very different roles, but just one person. It's an imperfect analogy. The one I used to use with 10-yr olds years ago seems a little better:
I'd ask: "How many triangles?" "One!" they'd call out. "How many corners?" "Three!" "How many God's?" "One!" "How many Persons?" "Three!" I'm sure they 'got it' with the simplicity of their young minds and understanding better than I did! Hope it helps. Because there really are THREE separate Entities - three Persons. Jesus is separate from His Father. Otherwise He'd have to be seen as this utter fool on earth - talking to Himself!
You may think of it like this. They are so ALIKE, that it's "as if" they are one Person. But they are three Persons. Sometimes it's said like this: "Three Persons in one God. One God in three Persons." In a marriage, the Word says that TWO have become ONE flesh. Do they really? Of course not! ONE married couple - and if it's a great marriage, no disharmony, working together, almost like they really ARE one! Yet at all times there are still two PERSONS. That's a poor picture of what we refer to as the Trinity, but I think it does help give us some clues.
Alright Jesus was the One who was on earth on the Cross. The Father was still in heaven. Jesus took all of the sins of everyone in the world upon Himself while on the Cross. The Father was the One Who put them there! - so that The Perfect Lamb could pay sin's full penalty of hell: which is TOTAL SEPARATION FROM GOD THE FATHER. That's what ultimately killed Jesus! A broken heart if you like!! - cos He and His Father and the Holy Spirit had been together from forever - and now Jesus is there suffering the cruelty of the cross, and left completely on his own!!!
But why DID the Father leave Jesus utterly ALONE? Because SIN SEPARATES!!! When you were unsaved, you were "dead in your sins" the NT says. This deadness was because you were completely SEPARATED from God BY YOUR SIN!! That's what sin does! That's why unbelievers can seem to know so little, and be so 'dumb' about the whole deal. They don't know God!! Nor can they, until they come to Him via Jesus.
Part 2 continued in next post...
PRACTICAL NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANITY
MESSAGE #61
THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT - Part 2
... Continued from PART 1 in Above Post
As soon as God the Father placed upon Jesus the sins of the world, that sin SEPARATED the Father and Jesus. And so Jesus cried out in the depths of agony, "My God My God why have you gone away from Me?" He was taking the agony of hell so you and I never have to experience it!!!
In the Garden of Gethsamene, Jesus was very close to the Cross that He knew perfectly well He'd come to earth to die on. He KNEW He was going to experience the HELL of separation from the Father. Effectively He said, "Father, if it's possible, could I be spared the Cross?" This is the "man" part of Jesus if you like, considering what He was going to have to go through. He answered His own question! "It's alright, Father, I am going to do YOUR will, not MINE." A great prayer for us all to pray I reckon!
Finally for this section, Father God did not go through the agony of hell and the pain of the Cross. He is NOT Jesus, right! He went through His own DIFFERENT pain. Here is the Father having to WATCH HIS SON go through all of that - but without being able to lift a finger to help! I'm sure He was tempted to, if you see what I mean. What Father wouldn't be. But HE COULD NOT. Because if He had, then JESUS' SACRIFICE TO SAVE US WOULD HAVE NOT BEEN COMPLETE and so we would all be consigned to the horror and punishment of hell forever!!! End of story.
I dunno about you, but I'm way, way, way beyond grateful that every large and every teensy part of all this incredible drama that was played out at Calvary was done PERFECTLY! Despite cringing from the whole awful deal, nonetheless both the Father and Jesus played the exact part each needed to - ALL FOR YOU!!!
Bonnie said:
Yes, the Old Testament all ACTUALLY HAPPENED, exactly as it is written! Because the actual AUTHOR of the whole of the Bible is GOD HIMSELF!!! He used men to set it down, but it's HIS WORD AND WORDS DIRECT TO US!! How about THAT!!
Once again we see a God Who is WAY ABOVE US. We can neither understand all of Him - NOR all of His ways! NEVER QUERY GOD!! (asking "Why?" and that sort of thing). With our tiny minds we TRY to comprehend Him. But we CANNOT. No matter how much of the Bible we know, and how mature a Christian we become, what we still comprehend is as nothing!
However, here's what I used to tell atheists while I was on MySpace: NO ONE CAN EVER UNDERSTAND AND KNOW ALL ABOUT GOD - BUT WE CAN KNOW ENOUGH!!! A very important truth for us all!
Great post! So glad you are learning all these new things!! Much love!
Continued in Part 3 ...
- BM, with his best supporter!
COMMENTS WELCOME!
- Status