The Reason the Church is Floundering....

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What I observe is that many seem to be babes in Christ. Because they are yet babes they are unable to partake of the meat of God's word and still are using the milk. It saddens me when I see those that have been Christian a long time and yet they are still babes in Christ.

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. (KJV)

When we gather together and are instructed, this should not be our primary meal of the week. Perhaps part of the floundering we see is that so many fail to give adequate time to talk and listen to God.


Heb 5:13-4 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (KJV)

Heb 6:1-2 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (KJV)

Paul was admonishing these Christians to mature and grow in the knowledge and understanding of this way of life. Perhaps in part today's problem is as much a matter of feeling that others are to blame and not taking seriously our part in Christian growth and our need to trust God in all things.
 
What is your thought on this matter? What is the root of the problem? And more importantly, what can we do to change it?
I believe growth is great and needful, but I believe a deeper and more fundamental reason the Church is floundering is because it has a weak and crumbly foundation. It has not dug it's roots down deep into the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:11 (KJV) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 2:2 (KJV) For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1 Corinthians 3:10 (KJV) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

Consequently the Church ends up looking into self helps for growth from anything from Yoga to Wokism forgetting the pit from which she was rescued.
Ceasing to give thanks and honor to the glorious One who freely gave His life for their new life, she lauds and applauds the ones who charge for their own fame and in return offer vanities.
 
Expository preaching is a method of detailing what scripture means. It tends to be literal and adheres to the idea that the Bible says what it means and means what it says. There are a few ways of doing it but I prefer the lectio continua method of reading the Bible verse by verse and explaining it (I didn’t know that’s what it was called until I read the Wiki). A lot of Cavalry Chapel churches use that method.

I think that would take too long.
I think you need to read the Bible as stories, and then say come back next week for the next thrilling installment, instead of going verse by verse, which is really sentence by sentence and NITPICKING it.
 
But, what about the message of a local church for those who do believe?

After all, as I indicated, those attending church are not the average unbeliever, even if they have not yet accepted Christ.

Surely it they can be expected to know about sin, take it seriously, and be taught how to recognize and deal with sin on a personal level.

It is surely so, but again except where a sizeable number of members are indulging in personal sin and destroying the witness to God's kingdom, it is better to teach than scold.

Just as an example, if a preacher feels (as he should periodically) that his congregation doesn't consider their own sin, the preacher may profitably have a series of messages on the life of David.

David was identified as a man after God's own heart. But is was not because he was an unswervingly righteous man, but because when he sinned, and he was guilty of arranging the death of Uriah, Bathsheba's husband so he could commit adultery with her, and then act as if there was nothing wrong. What made David a man after God's heart was David's response when he was convicted of sin. He not only owned up to it, but he made the most public confession in history (it is still read today (Psalm 51).

It might even be well to point out that having sin does not cut one off irretrievably from God's plan. If you read the genealogy of our Lord in Matthew Ch 1, you find out that that adulterous act resulted in Solomon and the line leading to our Lord.

The congregation can be encouraged to examine their lives and bring whatever iniquities may remain before the Lord, and petition for strength to overcome all.

There are many other basics that a preacher may cover that instructs a believer whether he is newly converted, or an old spiritual warrior.

But I see little to recommend the approach of "the harshest scoldings will continue until you all understand the tender love God has for you".
 
Yes. There is "Expository" and then there is "Topical".

Both serve their purposes and both are acceptable. Some preachers alternate
I think that would take too long.
I think you need to read the Bible as stories, and then say come back next week for the next thrilling installment, instead of going verse by verse, which is really sentence by sentence and NITPICKING it.
It does take a long time. Sometimes years. What you call “nitpicking” I call understanding.

What you suggest is the problem. The word of God is thrilling enough without needing to glam it up or make it more Hollywood for people. It’s God’s holy word that is filled with truth and beauty beyond what a simplified “thrilling” version can ever convey.
 
It's not glamming it up.
It is simply READING it and letting it speak for itself, and appreciating the story rather than wondering, oh what does this word mean, and this word and then analysing it to death!

Jesus spoke in parables for a reason, He didn't go round carrying a dictionary or encyclopaedia and go looking up a kajillion different pages in the Bible.
 
It's not glamming it up.
It is simply READING it and letting it speak for itself, and appreciating the story rather than wondering, oh what does this word mean, and this word and then analysing it to death!

Jesus spoke in parables for a reason, He didn't go round carrying a dictionary or encyclopaedia and go looking up a kajillion different pages in the Bible.
Yeah, I don’t think you know what expository preaching is like to experience. Maybe check out YouTube for some examples. It’s really more like an in-depth Bible study. I’m not sure why you think a dictionary or encyclopedia is necessary to read the Bible.
 
It does take a long time. Sometimes years. What you call “nitpicking” I call understanding.

What you suggest is the problem. The word of God is thrilling enough without needing to glam it up or make it more Hollywood for people. It’s God’s holy word that is filled with truth and beauty beyond what a simplified “thrilling” version can ever convey.

You are 100% Correct!!!!!
 
It's not glamming it up.
It is simply READING it and letting it speak for itself, and appreciating the story rather than wondering, oh what does this word mean, and this word and then analysing it to death!

Jesus spoke in parables for a reason, He didn't go round carrying a dictionary or encyclopaedia and go looking up a kajillion different pages in the Bible.

Correct understanding of the actual words written in the original language is not analyzing. It is theologically called "Exegesis".

If we simply read what is written then what is read by the individual is then left up to their on mind as to what is written.

A person without the proper understanding may read the word "Beast" in the written Word of God and by their own thinking will then decide that that word means a four legged lizard breathing fire and eating people and flying through the air instead of realizing that it is a "symbolic"
word that signify man's affections--evil affections with the evil, and good affections with the good and context is the determining factor.

Parables were a way of "culling" the heard out.

As you said, and I agree...
"It is simply READING it and letting it speak for itself, and appreciating the story rather than wondering, oh what does this word mean".
Lets do just that shall we.

Matthew 13:10-17 are the literal words spoken by Jesus concerning what you said where we read.....
"To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it".

From this point on in Jesus’ ministry, when He spoke in parables, He explained them only to His disciples. But those who had continually rejected His message were left in their spiritual blindness to wonder as to His meaning. He made a clear distinction between those who had been given “ears to hear” and those who persisted in unbelief—ever hearing, but never actually perceiving and “always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth” (2 Timothy 3:7).

The disciples had been given the gift of spiritual discernment by which things of the spirit were made clear to them. Because they accepted truth from Jesus, they were given more and more truth. The same is true today of believers who have been given the gift of the Holy Spirit who guides us into all truth (John 16:13). He has opened our eyes to the light of truth and our ears to the sweet words of eternal life.
 
Yeah, I don’t think you know what expository preaching is like to experience. Maybe check out YouTube for some examples. It’s really more like an in-depth Bible study. I’m not sure why you think a dictionary or encyclopedia is necessary to read the Bible.

Agreed!
 
I believe growth is great and needful, but I believe a deeper and more fundamental reason the Church is floundering is because it has a weak and crumbly foundation. It has not dug it's roots down deep into the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:11 (KJV) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 2:2 (KJV) For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1 Corinthians 3:10 (KJV) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

Consequently the Church ends up looking into self helps for growth from anything from Yoga to Wokism forgetting the pit from which she was rescued.
Ceasing to give thanks and honor to the glorious One who freely gave His life for their new life, she lauds and applauds the ones who charge for their own fame and in return offer vanities.

Exactly!

If and when the any church is not rooted and grounded in the written Word of God....it will be left open tio the thoughts of mean and their ideas of what is acceptable.
 
But, what about the message of a local church for those who do believe?

After all, as I indicated, those attending church are not the average unbeliever, even if they have not yet accepted Christ.

Surely it they can be expected to know about sin, take it seriously, and be taught how to recognize and deal with sin on a personal level.

It is surely so, but again except where a sizeable number of members are indulging in personal sin and destroying the witness to God's kingdom, it is better to teach than scold.

Just as an example, if a preacher feels (as he should periodically) that his congregation doesn't consider their own sin, the preacher may profitably have a series of messages on the life of David.

David was identified as a man after God's own heart. But is was not because he was an unswervingly righteous man, but because when he sinned, and he was guilty of arranging the death of Uriah, Bathsheba's husband so he could commit adultery with her, and then act as if there was nothing wrong. What made David a man after God's heart was David's response when he was convicted of sin. He not only owned up to it, but he made the most public confession in history (it is still read today (Psalm 51).

It might even be well to point out that having sin does not cut one off irretrievably from God's plan. If you read the genealogy of our Lord in Matthew Ch 1, you find out that that adulterous act resulted in Solomon and the line leading to our Lord.

The congregation can be encouraged to examine their lives and bring whatever iniquities may remain before the Lord, and petition for strength to overcome all.

There are many other basics that a preacher may cover that instructs a believer whether he is newly converted, or an old spiritual warrior.

But I see little to recommend the approach of "the harshest scoldings will continue until you all understand the tender love God has for you".
You said...............
"But I see little to recommend the approach of "the harshest scoldings will continue until you all understand the tender love God has for you".

Now then, that seems to have opened the door of reality to the cause and effect we live in today.

Because Pastors stopped preaching on the dangers of SIN and scolding their congregations in the last 50 years or so and look at what has happened to the church today. They have preached the Love and forgiveness of God at the expense of the judgment of God on sin.

The effect then is that The voting facts are that 40 % of Americans say vote democratic. 40 % say they vote republican, 20 % say they are neither.

Now the Democratic party openly runs on and touts the fact they they are 100% for abortion and homosexuals' marriages.

But Good says that both of those are SIN of the highest caliber.
So the question must be asked.......How can a born again so called Christian vote for people who support what God condemns???????

Because men have failed to condemn from the pulpit what God condemns from His written Word! the church is filled with wishy washy people who vote from their mind instead of from the Word of God. They have made politics their religion and as a result the church has no power to change what we see taking place right in front of us.

Galatians 6:7 .......
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows."

What we see taking place today is the result of not preaching the sins that God says condemns a man.
 
Exactly!

If and when the any church is not rooted and grounded in the written Word of God....it will be left open tio the thoughts of mean and their ideas of what is acceptable.

Mean should have been "MEN". You would have thought spell check would have caught that!
 
Yeah, I don’t think you know what expository preaching is like to experience. Maybe check out YouTube for some examples. It’s really more like an in-depth Bible study. I’m not sure why you think a dictionary or encyclopedia is necessary to read the Bible.
depends what kind of Bible study you go to.
Some are too confusing to even bother.

I like Bible studies where we actually READ THE BIBLE.
 
I think if you asked 100 believers for the reason the church as a whole is floundering, worldly, shallow and lukewarm, there would be a few who would fight and declare God's church is exactly what God wants and He is pleased with us.

But of those that remain, there would be a myriad of answers but none with a proposed correction to get us back on track. We read about revival, but are like the lame man at the pool of Bethesda, waiting for the angel to stir the water.

I have my own opinion, which I hope to share, but what say you? Is the church just fine, just drowned out by all the tares? Wait. That should be a red flag, right? Is the church as a whole walking in defeat, bickering over doctrine, overtaken with things of the world? Is holiness not only seen as impossible but also as a lifestyle that would constrict our "self" expression?

What is your thought on this matter? What is the root of the problem? And more importantly, what can we do to change it?

Thanks in advance,

Gideon
Lack of proper Biblical knowledge and application, and lack of seeking the will of the Lord, more what we desire to do!
 
I think if you asked 100 believers for the reason the church as a whole is floundering, worldly, shallow and lukewarm, there would be a few who would fight and declare God's church is exactly what God wants and He is pleased with us.

But of those that remain, there would be a myriad of answers but none with a proposed correction to get us back on track. We read about revival, but are like the lame man at the pool of Bethesda, waiting for the angel to stir the water.

I have my own opinion, which I hope to share, but what say you? Is the church just fine, just drowned out by all the tares? Wait. That should be a red flag, right? Is the church as a whole walking in defeat, bickering over doctrine, overtaken with things of the world? Is holiness not only seen as impossible but also as a lifestyle that would constrict our "self" expression?

What is your thought on this matter? What is the root of the problem? And more importantly, what can we do to change it?

Thanks in advance,

Gideon

You'd most likely get 101 reasons. What's yours?

Hello gideon;

It seems you received some good posts. Since you authored this thread it would be nice to receive your response.

God bless you, gideon, and your family.
 
You said...............
"But I see little to recommend the approach of "the harshest scoldings will continue until you all understand the tender love God has for you".

Now then, that seems to have opened the door of reality to the cause and effect we live in today.

Because Pastors stopped preaching on the dangers of SIN and scolding their congregations in the last 50 years or so and look at what has happened to the church today. They have preached the Love and forgiveness of God at the expense of the judgment of God on sin.

The effect then is that The voting facts are that 40 % of Americans say vote democratic. 40 % say they vote republican, 20 % say they are neither.

Now the Democratic party openly runs on and touts the fact they they are 100% for abortion and homosexuals' marriages.

But Good says that both of those are SIN of the highest caliber.
So the question must be asked.......How can a born again so called Christian vote for people who support what God condemns???????

Because men have failed to condemn from the pulpit what God condemns from His written Word! the church is filled with wishy washy people who vote from their mind instead of from the Word of God. They have made politics their religion and as a result the church has no power to change what we see taking place right in front of us.

Galatians 6:7 .......
"Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows."

What we see taking place today is the result of not preaching the sins that God says condemns a man.
What I am advocating is that rather than rail against the society we live in, we strengthen ourselves in Christ and then we can be a positive influence on those around us, knowing that society itself will never become sanctified no matter how loudly we proclaim the evils of society.

Our local churches need to do a better job of teaching believers how to recognize and deal with their own personal sin. They need to do a better job of teaching what living for Christ means. They need to do a better job of encouraging believers to step out into their community and let the community see (and hear) the results of their personal changed lives.

The church's main mission in a community should be to prepare and enable the believers to serve Him within the community. Instead, I see churches that are either invisible in the community beyond their worship services, or attempt to do it all, having some kind of outreach or ministry every day but the individual believer is left with the impression that the church is doing it all and the individual is relieved of any personal charge.

By examining our own lives, assessing whether we are living for Christ or ourselves, and making corrections to ourselves as the Lord leads. As we progress, we should also examine our activities and make sure our light is not under a bushel. Our neighbors need to know who we serve, and observe us serving Him.

They need to be invited as unique persons to learn what the Lord offers them and what the Lord requires of them.

Just as society is made up of the individuals within it, and is improved by improving the lives of those people, Christ's church is made up of His believers, and is made more effective when His believers draw closer to Him.

If we as believers make ourselves His instruments, our Lord can address the ills of temporal society.
 
What I am advocating is that rather than rail against the society we live in, we strengthen ourselves in Christ and then we can be a positive influence on those around us, knowing that society itself will never become sanctified no matter how loudly we proclaim the evils of society.

Our local churches need to do a better job of teaching believers how to recognize and deal with their own personal sin. They need to do a better job of teaching what living for Christ means. They need to do a better job of encouraging believers to step out into their community and let the community see (and hear) the results of their personal changed lives.

The church's main mission in a community should be to prepare and enable the believers to serve Him within the community. Instead, I see churches that are either invisible in the community beyond their worship services, or attempt to do it all, having some kind of outreach or ministry every day but the individual believer is left with the impression that the church is doing it all and the individual is relieved of any personal charge.

By examining our own lives, assessing whether we are living for Christ or ourselves, and making corrections to ourselves as the Lord leads. As we progress, we should also examine our activities and make sure our light is not under a bushel. Our neighbors need to know who we serve, and observe us serving Him.

They need to be invited as unique persons to learn what the Lord offers them and what the Lord requires of them.

Just as society is made up of the individuals within it, and is improved by improving the lives of those people, Christ's church is made up of His believers, and is made more effective when His believers draw closer to Him.

If we as believers make ourselves His instruments, our Lord can address the ills of temporal society.

I am in fact agreeing with you brother.

The fact is.....preaching against social sins and morality of society will not change society!!!!!

Only the changing of the heart of man can do that. Only a born again man can then change the direction of society.

What I am saying is that it just may be too late in the plan of God's time table for that to happen. There is a day set in time in which the Son of God in coming back and the Scriptures say that in that day.....it will be like the days of Noah and in Noahs day, man did what was evil continuelly in his eyes.

I am just saying that we may have passed the day of no return so that all we can do now id try and save as many of the lost as we can.
 
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