Trials and Troubles more precious than gold

@KingJ ... Brother, I am with you....

What would I do? I try to encourage and comfort them and try to lift the spirits of those brothers... To NOT blame them.. Not grind them up.... Not make promises or tell them to try harder or to believe God will give them prosperity and health... Rather to encourage them that we don't love them or value them any less because they have less or are sick.. That just because The World views them as worthless - we don't....

The WORST thing we can do in these sort of situations is to be like Job's 3 friends - DECLARED in the bible to be "Worthless Comforters"... Chastised by GOD himself that they were declaring things about Him that were not true... and what did THEY teach - that if you aren't prosperous, healthy, and full of "Blessings" - you are in sin against God and you are not faithful.....

If I could - I would try to offer them help.... Sometimes, you can "Teach a man to fish"... Sometimes, though - you just have to give them some money - telling them "Be fed and be warmed" won't pay the power bill or put gas in the tank will it....

As you said - just because we have "Stuff" - we aren't any more righteous or faithful than those who don't.. In fact - it's frequently the OPPOSITE.... 100% of THEIR treasure is in heaven, while OURS is here on earth.... Think of Christians in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Nigeria... They have lost EVERYTHING... They have had loved ones killed in their hands.. Burned alive... Tortured... shot.. Crucified.. They have lost children, wives, husbands, and loved ones.. Everything they have confiscated... Left for dead with no food or water..... THEY are the ones - those who have "Suffered for Christ" who Paul declares will "Rule with Christ"... Who Jesus declares have "Treasure in heaven".... Those people have to rely on God for 100% of everything every day....
 
KingJ, I have a question.
I see a lot of talk here about poor and rich, particularly poor Christians, etc.
What kind of poor and rich are we talking about? Monetary?
 
JohnC said:
I have spoken to the mountain... I have spoken to healing.. I have spoken to this and to that IN FAITH - and nothing happened..
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Brother, your faith produced exactly what you expected, nothing, and that is exactly what you received. Being "double minded" is the cause of never receiving anything of the Lord.

Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
 
CCW95A said:
Brother, your faith produced exactly what you expected, nothing, and that is exactly what you received. Being "double minded" is the cause of never receiving anything of the Lord.

Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
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Does this imply everyone here is double minded?
I can see a problem for us all.

More of a question, what if I received some, but not all?
 
Arrie03 said:
Does this imply everyone here is double minded?
I can see a problem for us all.

More of a question, what if I received some, but not all?
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Being "double minded" causes one NOT to receive from the Lord. These are not my words or my idea's. You can be a Christian and find yourself being double minded, that does not mean you are not a Christian. You can be a Christian and die of cancer or some other disease to. What do you desire from the Lord, and do you have scriptures to back it up? Faith is not "lets try and see if it works" There is no such a thing as that is total unbelief. You have already failed before you even began. We are suppose to ask and NEVER waver no matter what you see, feel, hear, or taste.
 
CCW95A said:
Being "double minded" causes one NOT to receive from the Lord. These are not my words or my idea's. You can be a Christian and find yourself being double minded, that does not mean you are not a Christian. You can be a Christian and die of cancer or some other disease to. What do you desire from the Lord, and do you have scriptures to back it up? Faith is not "lets try and see if it works" There is no such a thing as that is total unbelief. You have already failed before you even began. We are suppose to ask and NEVER waver no matter what you see, feel, hear, or taste.
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No, I get what you say, and the scripture.
Was hoping for an explanation that is past my level of understanding.
But, I know what to pray about now, thank you.
 
KingJ said:
So what you are saying is that a Christian should only be poor for a few months until he musters up more faith then a ridiculously tiny mustard seed, then he will be rich? All Christians poor for longer then a few months are not real Christains? They are wavering / double minded and being tossed to and fro....albeit they love Jesus from the bottom of their heart...:giggle::giggle: That is a really funny theory you pushing there Jim.

I believe riches and ''signs'' have absolutely nothing to do with our Christian walk and faith.

So the mustard seed is not ridiculously tiny? Jesus was not mocking faith to move mountains / perform signs and wonders? Jesus was being serious?

When did I say all we need is a little bit of faith? I have always said, we live at a very high level of faith. Beleiving in God like I do in gravity = 1000 000 000 mustard seeds. Believing in God to move a mountain = 1 mustard seed. Belieiving in God to print paper money = 0.0000000001 mustard seed. Belieiving in God to put petrol in my car = 0.00000001 mustard seed. Believing in God to cause my jar of honey to never run out = 0.00000001 mustard seed. Which means if anything beneath 1000 000 000 mustard seed faith does not take place.....it is not a lack of faith, rather just God's will.
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KJ Hello,
Look brother you keep twisting what I or any one says and this is not going any place so I am done. Have a blessed time
Jim
 
JohnC said:
I actually don't think that the "Faith of a Mustard Seed" really is rhetorical overstatement...
It's a point made to illustrate something that we often don't get ahold of....

I have spoken to the mountain... I have spoken to healing.. I have spoken to this and to that IN FAITH - and nothing happened... Guess WHAT that illustrates and bears testimony of.... That MY faith is NOT EVEN that of a mustard seed... MY faith is NOT what I can count on when I am in trouble.... I have no righteousness or power within myself to effect any of those things... Wishing and hoping don't make it so....

The mountain doesn't have to listen to me... Neither does the sickness... Neither does the job or the septic tank out back... BUT - they DO have to listen to God...

It's HIS faith we count on.. That's the point of Euphemia's quote in Daniel - that EVEN IF God does NOT deliver us - still I will put my faith in HIM.... because HE is faithful.

What I HAVE experienced is - ME working and fighting and pushing and putting in my all... ME being "Faithful"... and nothing useful comes out of it.... I pray - ask God.... Try some more and nothing... Finally - say "Jesus, I know you don't owe me, but I could use some help here" ... and then leave it be - as it won't happen of MY power.... A couple days/week later - I notice it has somehow "Worked itself out"... WITHOUT my effort.....

It's as if God is specifically doing things to make the point that it's not MY actions or MY faithfulness that works it out - but it's HIS faithfulness....
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John this statement is alittle different.........It's HIS faith we count on.. That's the point of Euphemia's quote in Daniel - that EVEN IF God does NOT deliver us - still I will put my faith in HIM.... because HE is faithful.

John that is not what they said..........They said even if God was not able to or another words even if God did not have the power or ability to deliver us WE STILL WONT WORSHIP YOUR GODS...........THEY NEW GOD COULD.........they simply were saying evein if he could not BUT they never said even if He does not as if He can but if he dont..........
 
Arrie03 said:
No, I get what you say, and the scripture.
Was hoping for an explanation that is past my level of understanding.
But, I know what to pray about now, thank you.
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Brother, faith as Jesus taught is something you believe you already received the moment you ask, or pray for it. This is what a lot of Christians miss. Faith does not believe you are going to get something in the future after you ask, that is hope. Faith always believes you received it at the exact moment you asked for it.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

The believing part (faith) is that you already have it, not that you are going to get it. So, if someone says they tried faith and it did not work, it is because they really did not believe they already received it the moment they asked for it.
 
JohnC said:
@KingJ ... Brother, I am with you....

What would I do? I try to encourage and comfort them and try to lift the spirits of those brothers... To NOT blame them.. Not grind them up.... Not make promises or tell them to try harder or to believe God will give them prosperity and health... Rather to encourage them that we don't love them or value them any less because they have less or are sick.. That just because The World views them as worthless - we don't....

The WORST thing we can do in these sort of situations is to be like Job's 3 friends - DECLARED in the bible to be "Worthless Comforters"... Chastised by GOD himself that they were declaring things about Him that were not true... and what did THEY teach - that if you aren't prosperous, healthy, and full of "Blessings" - you are in sin against God and you are not faithful.....

If I could - I would try to offer them help.... Sometimes, you can "Teach a man to fish"... Sometimes, though - you just have to give them some money - telling them "Be fed and be warmed" won't pay the power bill or put gas in the tank will it....

As you said - just because we have "Stuff" - we aren't any more righteous or faithful than those who don't.. In fact - it's frequently the OPPOSITE.... 100% of THEIR treasure is in heaven, while OURS is here on earth.... Think of Christians in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Nigeria... They have lost EVERYTHING... They have had loved ones killed in their hands.. Burned alive... Tortured... shot.. Crucified.. They have lost children, wives, husbands, and loved ones.. Everything they have confiscated... Left for dead with no food or water..... THEY are the ones - those who have "Suffered for Christ" who Paul declares will "Rule with Christ"... Who Jesus declares have "Treasure in heaven".... Those people have to rely on God for 100% of everything every day....
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John any Christian who is prosperous depends and relies on God for everything. They have also built up treasures in Heaven as well. You do not have to live in a messed up country to claim you have to rely on God for every thing..
 
CCW95A said:
Brother, faith as Jesus taught is something you believe you already received the moment you ask, or pray for it. This is what a lot of Christians miss. Faith does not believe you are going to get something in the future after you ask, that is hope. Faith always believes you received it at the exact moment you asked for it.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

The believing (faith) is in you already have it, not that you are going to get it. So, if someone says they tried faith and it did not work, it is because they really did not believe they already received it the moment they asked for it.
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Hey CCW another thing where People try the word and fail the word is the inbetween time or fighting the good fight of faith. See they do not graps that you have to stay in Faith with out wavoring or doubting or with out fear until it is manifested into this realm. If you can see it you can have it IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE IN THE SPIRIT.......If you can not see it in the Spirit then you are not seeing it. Seeing it in the natural will do you no good.
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Hey CCW another thing where People try the word and fail the word is the inbetween time or fighting the good fight of faith. See they do not graps that you have to stay in Faith with out wavoring or doubting or with out fear until it is manifested into this realm. If you can see it you can have it IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE IN THE SPIRIT.......If you can not see it in the Spirit then you are not seeing it. Seeing it in the natural will do you no good.
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Can you elaborate on what you mean by "seeing it in Spirit"?
 
Mykuhl said:
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "seeing it in Spirit"?
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Hey you copying me ? ( elaborate ) lol
Have you ever got a revelation from God via His word or something you heard and you knew that you knew it was God ? If so then you knew it in your spirit. It is kind of like that. It is where things are settled and the flesh nor mind can talk you out of it nor can worry or fear get in your way. Does this help ? ;)
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Hey you copying me ? ( elaborate ) lol
Have you ever got a revelation from God via His word or something you heard and you knew that you knew it was God ? If so then you knew it in your spirit. It is kind of like that. It is where things are settled and the flesh nor mind can talk you out of it nor can worry or fear get in your way. Does this help ? ;)
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Yes, thank you for explaining.
 
KingJ said:
So what you are saying is that a Christian should only be poor for a few months until he musters up more faith then a ridiculously tiny mustard seed, then he will be rich?
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3Jn 1:2.. Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

The Lord wants his Church, (the people) to prosper, and be in health, even as our soul prospers. This entails spiritual and physical prosperity.
Why would the Lord want that? How are you ever going to accomplish what the Lord has called you to do without it? Your not. We are not going to ask for a 70" 4K TV so we can sit around all day long and watch "Netflix". How are you going to preach the gospel if you are sick, without transportation, clothing, food, shelter or not having the ability to which God gives to bring to completion your mission?
 
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Fish Catcher Jim said:
Hey CCW another thing where People try the word and fail the word is the inbetween time or fighting the good fight of faith. See they do not graps that you have to stay in Faith with out wavoring or doubting or with out fear until it is manifested into this realm. If you can see it you can have it IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE IN THE SPIRIT.......If you can not see it in the Spirit then you are not seeing it. Seeing it in the natural will do you no good.
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Absolutely!! You have to see the "mountain" removed or it aint going anywhere. Teaching the "concepts" of faith is a must for the Church to be able to benefit from it. More people complain about those who walk by faith, which is exactly what they need, but can not see it.
 
CCW95A said:
Absolutely!! You have to see the "mountain" removed or it aint going anywhere. Teaching the "concepts" of faith is a must for the Church to be able to benefit from it. More people complain about those who walk by faith, which is exactly what they need, but can not see it.
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Amen !!
 
Mykuhl said:
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "seeing it in Spirit"?
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While we are living on this planet earth we will, and do go through afflictions, and trials. It seems like life is always throwing problems about money, our jobs, or just having enough to live our life. God has provided us "promises" to fulfill all these things so we can bring to completion our mission here on earth. These promises do not just automatically come, we have believe for them by faith. The Word of God provides us "light" which gives us "vision" so we can see these things by faith. The Bible tells us to "look" at the things not "seen", which is what we are "hoping" for, which faith gives "substance" to!! The only time "God's "eternal weight of Glory" is working for us is when we are keeping our spiritual eyes on the unseen. The unseen is what we are hoping for. You must see your self doing what God has called you to do. You must see yourself healed, prosperous, and having all your needs met by faith! If you can not see it, it is not faith.

2Co 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
 
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