What point areyou trying to make with these pieces of scripture ?
Trials and Troubles more precious than gold
- Thread starter 2404
- Start date
What point areyou trying to make with these pieces of scripture ?
@KingJ
1.I believe you are pushing positive / motivational speaking and not Christianity.
Brother you can believe what ever you wish here. Nope KJ just saying what the word says with out twisiting fun filled facts into it. ; )
2.Not with God. We have faith in God being good. That is everyday life for us. We don't have power over life or death, or pretty much anything outside of His will. We are not demigods / gods unto ourselves.
Well then that shootsbproverbs 18:21 down the drain.
We have faith or trust that God is who He says He is and Faith in His word and Faith that he will do what he says He will do. That is every day life. See it's called walking By Faith and we are all called to live that way. This is so much more then simple belief He is God and Jesus died and was raised to life. Good grief KJ even the demons believe that.
3. If you believe you have power to close lions mouths, why don't you jump into a lion pit? How many will follow Jesus if you have that level of faith? It is exactly the same as avoiding hospital, but lets not discuss healing. My thinking is that NOBODY will follow Jesus. They will follow you.
What is all this mumble jumble KJ ? See once again you are just making a sillyt game out of this.
5.He hoped we would understand that it takes NO / little faith to move mountains.
Kj one day I hope you get a real understanding about faith and what is meant with the mustard seed.
6. Jesus was speaking to the unsaved and disciples that were still building trust in Him. Like I have already said / asked, do you think Peter needed to muster up faith to move a mountain after He was fully convinced that a man standing in front of Him was God of the universe?
This is your answer to why Jesus was heard many times saying ye of little faith.
Kj you need to get a real understanding about Faith. Yea I kinow you believe you do.
7. You need to read on, James 1:6-8 For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
I believe James is alluding to carnal Christians. If we truly believe in Jesus / our foundation built on a rock....we will be tossed to and fro by the wind? If we are truly saved, passed from death to life, given our lives to Jesus.....we will not receive anything? Lose your life and find it does not apply? If we truly give our lives to Jesus, we are double minded????? Unstable in all our ways???
Kj once again you make a game out of this. James is talking TO EVERY SPIRIT FILLED BORN AGAIN AND BLOOD WASHED BELIEVERS. Kj just because one believes in God and who He is does not mean everything just happens and all you need is faith that God is God.
Again KJ if you want to talk about this please get some understanding of this.
As far as the rest of your reply. How can any one truly reply when you take bits and pieces of scripture and twist them into non sense.
Thanks KJ
Have a wonderful night
Jim
1.I believe you are pushing positive / motivational speaking and not Christianity.
Brother you can believe what ever you wish here. Nope KJ just saying what the word says with out twisiting fun filled facts into it. ; )
2.Not with God. We have faith in God being good. That is everyday life for us. We don't have power over life or death, or pretty much anything outside of His will. We are not demigods / gods unto ourselves.
Well then that shootsbproverbs 18:21 down the drain.
We have faith or trust that God is who He says He is and Faith in His word and Faith that he will do what he says He will do. That is every day life. See it's called walking By Faith and we are all called to live that way. This is so much more then simple belief He is God and Jesus died and was raised to life. Good grief KJ even the demons believe that.
3. If you believe you have power to close lions mouths, why don't you jump into a lion pit? How many will follow Jesus if you have that level of faith? It is exactly the same as avoiding hospital, but lets not discuss healing. My thinking is that NOBODY will follow Jesus. They will follow you.
What is all this mumble jumble KJ ? See once again you are just making a sillyt game out of this.
5.He hoped we would understand that it takes NO / little faith to move mountains.
Kj one day I hope you get a real understanding about faith and what is meant with the mustard seed.
6. Jesus was speaking to the unsaved and disciples that were still building trust in Him. Like I have already said / asked, do you think Peter needed to muster up faith to move a mountain after He was fully convinced that a man standing in front of Him was God of the universe?
This is your answer to why Jesus was heard many times saying ye of little faith.
Kj you need to get a real understanding about Faith. Yea I kinow you believe you do.
7. You need to read on, James 1:6-8 For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
I believe James is alluding to carnal Christians. If we truly believe in Jesus / our foundation built on a rock....we will be tossed to and fro by the wind? If we are truly saved, passed from death to life, given our lives to Jesus.....we will not receive anything? Lose your life and find it does not apply? If we truly give our lives to Jesus, we are double minded????? Unstable in all our ways???
Kj once again you make a game out of this. James is talking TO EVERY SPIRIT FILLED BORN AGAIN AND BLOOD WASHED BELIEVERS. Kj just because one believes in God and who He is does not mean everything just happens and all you need is faith that God is God.
Again KJ if you want to talk about this please get some understanding of this.
As far as the rest of your reply. How can any one truly reply when you take bits and pieces of scripture and twist them into non sense.
Thanks KJ
Have a wonderful night
Jim
How can you agree with Jim if you believe this? This is my belief. Jim would teach us that we need more faith to get rescued.
To impart some of Paul's wisdom''For I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content''
If we carry on repeating / quoting scripture and testing God by claiming, demanding, chasing demons......are we content?
1. There are fun filled facts in believing we should be content in our suffering? I would think they are in the contrary.
2. Grasping who we are in Christ > power of life in the tongue from positive confession. We are living AD.
3. Believing God can print paper money is greater then believing a man is God? Could not disagree more with you.
4. An extreme example to show you how shot your theory on faith is. You cannot do anything with faith alone, so why push it? You can believe all day long that a mountain will move, but if its not God's will it won't move. Same with everything else.
5. I can see the size of a mustard seed and appreciate Jesus's sarcasm / rhetorical overstatement just fine right now.
6. I can think of many better things to do then build my faith in faith. We should not play Christianity.
7. I don't think you grasp my point. If I believe God is God, I believe He an do anything. Faith of a mustard seed can also move a planet, a galaxy and probably every mountain on every planet in every galaxy. It is nothing but laughable to suggest we need to build faith that God can print paper money. Faith expected of us is purely in trusting God to be good. You need to meditate more on your faith in gravity. Don't we all have faith in gravity? What would someone say to you if you told them to muster up their faith in gravity?
Last edited:
The right faith---strong faith, more in quality over quantity, is what God responds to.
So you don't believe we must be content in whatever situation, you believe we need the right faith in bad sitautions?
Why you quote Dan 3:17-18 if you don't believe it? If you do, how do you reconcile your statements?
The bold is the crux of our disagreement. You believe God is with you but there are only ''certain'' things He can do for you. You don't believe He is omnipotent? Jesus used sarcasm / rhetorical overstatement on the mustard seed example for a reason.
God is either omnipotent or He is not. God is either with you or He is not. That's all there is to it.
Only certain things He can do for me? Where do you get that?
In Christ and by my faith in Him, I can do the things He did---He has authorized it.
Your butchering scritptures to make your case. It is sad Bro.
Yes Paul had learned this and we should too and I have. This means you stay full of the joy of the Lord if things are good or bad plenty or need. This does NOT say we are to except this state as His will or our lot in life.
Do you even grasp why we are to be like this KJ ? If so explain to me.
Blessings
KJ you really need to slow down and try to under stand things. God does not just go about doing what ever He wants when ever He wants. He is able to do anything BUT He put things into motion or being and wont go against them.
Please study and learn the meaning to the parable of the mustard seed KJ. This does not say all you need is a little bit of faith and it is all good.
You want to elaborate a little more on what you are saying here ?
You said ''and because of Him and the wisdom He gives, I can know which things I encounter I can speak to with Christ's authority to change or remove''.
I actually don't think that the "Faith of a Mustard Seed" really is rhetorical overstatement...
It's a point made to illustrate something that we often don't get ahold of....
I have spoken to the mountain... I have spoken to healing.. I have spoken to this and to that IN FAITH - and nothing happened... Guess WHAT that illustrates and bears testimony of.... That MY faith is NOT EVEN that of a mustard seed... MY faith is NOT what I can count on when I am in trouble.... I have no righteousness or power within myself to effect any of those things... Wishing and hoping don't make it so....
The mountain doesn't have to listen to me... Neither does the sickness... Neither does the job or the septic tank out back... BUT - they DO have to listen to God...
It's HIS faith we count on.. That's the point of Euphemia's quote in Daniel - that EVEN IF God does NOT deliver us - still I will put my faith in HIM.... because HE is faithful.
What I HAVE experienced is - ME working and fighting and pushing and putting in my all... ME being "Faithful"... and nothing useful comes out of it.... I pray - ask God.... Try some more and nothing... Finally - say "Jesus, I know you don't owe me, but I could use some help here" ... and then leave it be - as it won't happen of MY power.... A couple days/week later - I notice it has somehow "Worked itself out"... WITHOUT my effort.....
It's as if God is specifically doing things to make the point that it's not MY actions or MY faithfulness that works it out - but it's HIS faithfulness....
It's a point made to illustrate something that we often don't get ahold of....
I have spoken to the mountain... I have spoken to healing.. I have spoken to this and to that IN FAITH - and nothing happened... Guess WHAT that illustrates and bears testimony of.... That MY faith is NOT EVEN that of a mustard seed... MY faith is NOT what I can count on when I am in trouble.... I have no righteousness or power within myself to effect any of those things... Wishing and hoping don't make it so....
The mountain doesn't have to listen to me... Neither does the sickness... Neither does the job or the septic tank out back... BUT - they DO have to listen to God...
It's HIS faith we count on.. That's the point of Euphemia's quote in Daniel - that EVEN IF God does NOT deliver us - still I will put my faith in HIM.... because HE is faithful.
What I HAVE experienced is - ME working and fighting and pushing and putting in my all... ME being "Faithful"... and nothing useful comes out of it.... I pray - ask God.... Try some more and nothing... Finally - say "Jesus, I know you don't owe me, but I could use some help here" ... and then leave it be - as it won't happen of MY power.... A couple days/week later - I notice it has somehow "Worked itself out"... WITHOUT my effort.....
It's as if God is specifically doing things to make the point that it's not MY actions or MY faithfulness that works it out - but it's HIS faithfulness....
So what you are saying is that a Christian should only be poor for a few months until he musters up more faith then a ridiculously tiny mustard seed, then he will be rich? All Christians poor for longer then a few months are not real Christains? They are wavering / double minded and being tossed to and fro....albeit they love Jesus from the bottom of their heart...
That is a really funny theory you pushing there Jim.I believe riches and ''signs'' have absolutely nothing to do with our Christian walk and faith.
So the mustard seed is not ridiculously tiny? Jesus was not mocking faith to move mountains / perform signs and wonders? Jesus was being serious?
When did I say all we need is a little bit of faith? I have always said, we live at a very high level of faith. Beleiving in God like I do in gravity = 1000 000 000 mustard seeds. Believing in God to move a mountain = 1 mustard seed. Belieiving in God to print paper money = 0.0000000001 mustard seed. Belieiving in God to put petrol in my car = 0.00000001 mustard seed. Believing in God to cause my jar of honey to never run out = 0.00000001 mustard seed. Which means if anything beneath 1000 000 000 mustard seed faith does not take place.....it is not a lack of faith, rather just God's will.
Thats great. I don't completely disagree. But what do you say to the Christian that is still poor or what not? They don't have enough faith? Is that not what is the case for many Christians? Would you learn contentment if that were God's will for you?I actually don't think that the "Faith of a Mustard Seed" really is rhetorical overstatement...
It's a point made to illustrate something that we often don't get ahold of....
I have spoken to the mountain... I have spoken to healing.. I have spoken to this and to that IN FAITH - and nothing happened... Guess WHAT that illustrates and bears testimony of.... That MY faith is NOT EVEN that of a mustard seed... MY faith is NOT what I can count on when I am in trouble.... I have no righteousness or power within myself to effect any of those things... Wishing and hoping don't make it so....
The mountain doesn't have to listen to me... Neither does the sickness... Neither does the jobor the septic tank out back... BUT - they DO have to listen to God...
It's HIS faith we count on.. That's the point of Euphemia's quote in Daniel - that EVEN IF God does NOT deliver us - still I will put my faith in HIM.... because HE is faithful.
What I HAVE experienced is - ME working and fighting and pushing and putting in my all... ME being "Faithful"... and nothing useful comes out of it.... I pray - ask God.... Try some more and nothing... Finally - say "Jesus, I know you don't owe me, but I could use some help here" ... and then leave it be - as it won't happen of MY power.... A couple days/week later - I notice it has somehow "Worked itself out"... WITHOUT my effort.....
It's as if God is specifically doing things to make the point that it's not MY actions or MY faithfulness that works it out - but it's HIS faithfulness....
I want to propose that we cannot dare to question the faith of any James 1:27 Christian. You don't help the poor and needy if you are poor or in a wheel chair yourself... unless you have an insurmountable amount of faith in God. The irony of this faith debacle is so thick! It is those that are weak in their faith that need money and blessings before they do Christianity.
Last edited:
Ok then....let me ask you to answer one thing. What does James 1:5-8 mean? You explain it to me. I want to know your understanding on these verses. What is James teaching here?So what you are saying is that a Christian should only be poor for a few months until he musters up more faith then a ridiculously tiny mustard seed, then he will be rich? All Christians poor for longer then a few months are not real Christains? They are wavering / double minded and being tossed to and fro....albeit they love Jesus from the bottom of their heart...
I believe riches and ''signs'' have absolutely nothing to do with our Christian walk and faith.
So the mustard seed is not ridiculously tiny? Jesus was not mocking faith to move mountains / perform signs and wonders? Jesus was being serious?
When did I say all we need is a little bit of faith? I have always said, we live at a very high level of faith. Beleiving in God like I do in gravity = 1000 000 000 mustard seeds. Believing in God to move a mountain = 1 mustard seed. Belieiving in God to print paper money = 0.0000000001 mustard seed. Belieiving in God to put petrol in my car = 0.00000001 mustard seed. Believing in God to cause my jar of honey to never run out = 0.00000001 mustard seed. Which means if anything beneath 1000 000 000 mustard seed faith does not take place.....it is not a lack of faith, rather just God's will.