"Try the spirits"

Has the question now changed to "How can the unchangable God change?"

I am very curios to discover what the topic of this thread is. Does anyone know?

I have been getting the feeling this is an attempt to deny Jesus is God incarnate, without actually coming out and saying so, for some time now. If that is so, it needs to be stated so that people respond to the issue at hand and stop talking about everything else.

So, even tho I have nothing to offer this thread, I would like to follow it, but I can't if no one knows what anyone is talking about. Or am I the only one who doesn't know?

fil3232003, Can you please state the topic of this thread in one clear and concise statement? Please, so I can follow along. :) Please?

Danged if I know darlin.

I am much like you in that you said......
"I have been getting the feeling this is an attempt to deny Jesus is God incarnate, without actually coming out and saying so, for some time now".

But to be totally honest, I can not understand anything that "fil3232003 says about anything.
 

Ginger

Inactive
That's why I am only following...or trying to follow....this thread and not posting responses to his comments any longer. How can I respond when I don't have a clue what he is talking about????

Hopefully he will post a clear subject.
 
That's why I am only following...or trying to follow....this thread and not posting responses to his comments any longer. How can I respond when I don't have a clue what he is talking about????

Hopefully he will post a clear subject.

And PLEASE...........before someone posts and says that was an un-christian thing to say, DON'T.
I am sure that "fil3232003" is very sincere in what he is trying to communicate, and is a wonderful Christian person, it is that I just can not grasp what it is he is trying to say.
 
Danged if I know darlin.

I am much like you in that you said......
"I have been getting the feeling this is an attempt to deny Jesus is God incarnate, without actually coming out and saying so, for some time now".

But to be totally honest, I can not understand anything that "fil3232003 says about anything.

To the participants of this Thread,

Does not God through this very simple "test for spirits," want us all "to see" WHO Jesus Christ was before coming in the flesh?

Let us all look. God's plan for salvation needed the "shedding of blood" because of His covenant or testament to save those who humble themselves before Him.

It was Jesus Christ who "shed His blood on the cross," while it was the FATHER who made this testament. But here is the clue and the significance for this "test."

* Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
The TESTATOR or the maker of the testament was the FATHER! But the FATHER is a Spirit. Can we not ALL "see" the following truth?

* 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels...

WHO is this GOD?

Was it not the FATHER, and now it is in the person of JESUS CHRIST?

This is the "miracle" or the "revelation of the Father" that Jesus told Simon Peter when he correctly/rightly called Him CHRIST:

"Thou art the CHRIST!" - This is very clearly stated pointing to the primary role of JESUS being the SAVIOR, REDEEMER, MESSIAH!

No wonder it is written, Jesus Christ is God! Jesus Christ is the Creator! Jesus Christ is the Messiah! And this is very clearly written in the following:

* Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Now here is the confirmation of the FATHER for all the above!

* Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen:(not all people) that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

"Thou at the SON of the living God!" - This is but the secondary role of JESUS performing the following:

1) Jesus as the MODEL to the chosen: Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

2) Jesus showing the WAY (Joh 14:6) by EXAMPLE: 1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

3) In this secondary role of JESUS, He is NOT God! He is not the Savior! He is but the MODEL, calleds the "eldest Son of God" for the chosen.
4) In this secondary role of JESUS, He has also God like the chosen:

* Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

* John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Question:

Who has really passed this "test for spirit?"

I welcome any question regarding this truth of the TWO ROLES of Jesus Christ.
 
Instead of all the copy and pasting which runs differents thoughts all together in a mis mash of ideas..........why not just simply post what it is that you are trying to say.
 
Instead of all the copy and pasting which runs differents thoughts all together in a mis mash of ideas..........why not just simply post what it is that you are trying to say.

Is it not very very clear that GOD wants us to know "WHO manifested Himself in the flesh" in order to fulfill His testament of salvation?
- Jesus the Son of God?
- The One who made the testament of salvation?

This One who made the testament of salvation after manifesting Himself in the flesh, WHAT is His NAME?

This is what everybody is reading about the One who made the testament or covenant of salvation:

* Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
* Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

In the book of Revelation!

* Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Jesus Christ introducing Himself to the JEWS who could not recognize Him!

* John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
 
God has His way of "trying the spirits" whether a person is true or a bogus Christian. This was revealed to John the Beloved Apostle:

1 Joh 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1 Joh 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1 Joh 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

yup , I agree with that, when my God allowed my brother to see angels and demons.. he tested one by asking them , is jesus lord.. and it said no... obviously demon :x
 
yup , I agree with that, when my God allowed my brother to see angels and demons.. he tested one by asking them , is jesus lord.. and it said no... obviously demon :x

The word of God is "sacred" that it cannot be the subject of jesting:

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
 
Is it not very very clear that GOD wants us to know "WHO manifested Himself in the flesh" in order to fulfill His testament of salvation?
- Jesus the Son of God?
- The One who made the testament of salvation?

This One who made the testament of salvation after manifesting Himself in the flesh, WHAT is His NAME?

This is what everybody is reading about the One who made the testament or covenant of salvation:

* Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
* Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

In the book of Revelation!

* Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Jesus Christ introducing Himself to the JEWS who could not recognize Him!

* John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Is not the FATHER, the One who made the "testament of salvation?"

* Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

* Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Does not a TESTAMENT require the death of the maker or testator?

* Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
 
Is not the FATHER, the One who made the "testament of salvation?"

* Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

* Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Does not a TESTAMENT require the death of the maker or testator?

* Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

It is an irrefutable or unassailable truth that the FATHER is the maker of the Testament of Salvation. He, and not anybody, has to fulfill His Testament of Salvation with His DEATH!

But the FATHER is a Spirit (Joh 4:24). How could He do it?
Is there anything impossible with the FATHER, who claimed the only GOD in the following?

* Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Hence, who "manifested Himself in the flesh" in the following?

* 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Is not the foregoing "divine revelation" leading to the IDENTITY of JESUS CHRIST?

Is not the foregoing a "clue" to pass or hurdle the "test for spirits?"

* 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

* 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
 
God devised this "test for spirits" in order for His "chosen" be separated from the "called," the "sheep" from the "goats."

Now it is understandable for the following rebuke of Jesus Christ come the time for Judgment Day:

* Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
* Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

* Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

* Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

"iniquity" is anything contrary to the TRUTH!

Read: Psa 111:9 howreligious leaders rob God of His honorific titles.
Read Mat 23:8-10 how religous leaders rob God of His honorific titles.

Read John 10:1 and John 14:6, who are the "spiritual thieves and robbers," and not necessarily the "two thieves on the right and left" of Jesus Christ on the cross. Never did we hear Him rebuked these two thieves.

"LOVING IS BASED ON MUTUALLY KNOWING EACH OTHER."
 
To the participants of this Thread,

Does not God through this very simple "test for spirits," want us all "to see" WHO Jesus Christ was before coming in the flesh?

Let us all look. God's plan for salvation needed the "shedding of blood" because of His covenant or testament to save those who humble themselves before Him.

It was Jesus Christ who "shed His blood on the cross," while it was the FATHER who made this testament. But here is the clue and the significance for this "test."

* Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
The TESTATOR or the maker of the testament was the FATHER! But the FATHER is a Spirit. Can we not ALL "see" the following truth?

......

If you want people to seriously consider your posts and not simply ignore them as "spam" you are going to have to actually engage people in actual conversation. You are going to have to talk WITh people instead of talk AT people and respond to THEIR comments rather than your own.

Having said that what you have forgotten here is that the Father (Jehovah) has GIVEN all power and authority in Heaven and on the Earth to HIS SON Jesus (aka Jeshua etc depending on which language you are speaking)

OUR inheritance of the Kingdom is through the death of Jesus, not the death of Jehovah. We INHERIT the kingdom THROUGH and with Jesus.

Gal 4:6 "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."
Jesus never claimed to be His own Father but made it abundantly clear time and time again that He is the SON of the Father.

Are you aware that the churches established by the Apostles and those taught directly by the Apostles themselves considered it quite heretical and contrary to the teachings of Christ that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all the same person and not three distinct persons? Can I recommend you read the works of Irenaeus "Against Heresies" where this is clearly declared a heresy among the true Apostolic Churches of the First Century AD.
 
If you want people to seriously consider your posts and not simply ignore them as "spam" you are going to have to actually engage people in actual conversation. You are going to have to talk WITh people instead of talk AT people and respond to THEIR comments rather than your own.

Having said that what you have forgotten here is that the Father (Jehovah) has GIVEN all power and authority in Heaven and on the Earth to HIS SON Jesus (aka Jeshua etc depending on which language you are speaking)

OUR inheritance of the Kingdom is through the death of Jesus, not the death of Jehovah. We INHERIT the kingdom THROUGH and with Jesus.

Gal 4:6 "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."
Jesus never claimed to be His own Father but made it abundantly clear time and time again that He is the SON of the Father.

Are you aware that the churches established by the Apostles and those taught directly by the Apostles themselves considered it quite heretical and contrary to the teachings of Christ that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all the same person and not three distinct persons? Can I recommend you read the works of Irenaeus "Against Heresies" where this is clearly declared a heresy among the true Apostolic Churches of the First Century AD.

mistmann, Sir, I suppose this Forum is for everybody who is serious discussing about God and His words. And, as regards your comment:

"Having said that what you have forgotten here is that the Father (Jehovah) has GIVEN all power and authority in Heaven and on the Earth to HIS SON Jesus (aka Jeshua etc depending on which language you are speaking)

May I comment to your statement:

1. In truth, "Jehovah" is not even the name of the FATHER for this was "invented only by Cardinal Peter Gallatin in 1518."
2. As regards your comment, " ...GIVEN all power and authority in Heaven and on the Earth to HIS SON Jesus..."

Your assumption, Sir, has omitted the following TRUTH:

a. That the FATHER was the "maker of the testament of salvation." (Many verses)
b. That the fulfillment of the testament requires the "death of the testator or the maker thereof:

* Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

c. That the FATHER claims to be the only GOD in the following:

* Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

d. And so this TRUTH about GOD "manifesting Himself in the flesh!"

* 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit ...

Hence, from these "revelations about GOD and Jesus Christ," and also of you statement, the following conclusion can be drawn:

That, JESUS has two roles as revealed to Simon Peter in Mat 16:16-17:

a. For calling Jesus, "The CHRIST," Peter saw Jesus in His primary role as the "FATHER in the flesh ready to fulfill His testament with His death on the cross."

b. For calling Jesus, "The SON of the living God," Peter saw Jesus in His secondary role as "The Anointed One," the "Eldest Son of God" as MODEL to the chosen, thus:

* Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
 
mistmann, Sir, I suppose this Forum is for everybody who is serious discussing about God and His words. And, as regards your comment:

"Having said that what you have forgotten here is that the Father (Jehovah) has GIVEN all power and authority in Heaven and on the Earth to HIS SON Jesus (aka Jeshua etc depending on which language you are speaking)

May I comment to your statement:

1. In truth, "Jehovah" is not even the name of the FATHER for this was "invented only by Cardinal Peter Gallatin in 1518."

2. As regards your comment, " ...GIVEN all power and authority in Heaven and on the Earth to HIS SON Jesus..."

Your assumption, Sir, has omitted the following TRUTH:

a. That the FATHER was the "maker of the testament of salvation." (Many verses)

b. That the fulfillment of the testament requires the "death of the testator or the maker thereof:

* Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

c. That the FATHER claims to be the only GOD in the following:

* Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

d. And so this TRUTH about GOD "manifesting Himself in the flesh!"

* 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit ...

Hence, from these "revelations about GOD and Jesus Christ," and also of your statement, the following conclusion can be drawn:

That, JESUS has two roles as revealed to Simon Peter in Mat 16:16-17:

a. For calling Jesus, "The CHRIST," Peter saw Jesus in His primary role as the "FATHER in the flesh ready to fulfill His testament with His death on the cross."

b. For calling Jesus, "The SON of the living God," Peter saw Jesus in His secondary role as "The Anointed One," the "Eldest Son of God" as MODEL to the chosen, thus:

* Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

To all concerned:

It is only with this "test for spirits" and passing it that we can definitely and clearly discern pretending "apostles of Christ" in our time.
 
How many among us in this worthy FORUM have taken notice of this "test for spirits?"

Honestly speaking, have we hurdled or passed this "test?"
Let us remember the "all-seeing eyes of God" that nothing can be hidden without being exposed in His sight.
 
mistmann, Sir, I suppose this Forum is for everybody who is serious discussing about God and His words. And, as regards your comment:

"Having said that what you have forgotten here is that the Father (Jehovah) has GIVEN all power and authority in Heaven and on the Earth to HIS SON Jesus (aka Jeshua etc depending on which language you are speaking)

May I comment to your statement:

1. In truth, "Jehovah" is not even the name of the FATHER for this was "invented only by Cardinal Peter Gallatin in 1518."
2. As regards your comment, " ...GIVEN all power and authority in Heaven and on the Earth to HIS SON Jesus..."

Your assumption, Sir, has omitted the following TRUTH:

a. That the FATHER was the "maker of the testament of salvation." (Many verses)
b. That the fulfillment of the testament requires the "death of the testator or the maker thereof:

* Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

c. That the FATHER claims to be the only GOD in the following:

* Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

d. And so this TRUTH about GOD "manifesting Himself in the flesh!"

* 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit ...

Hence, from these "revelations about GOD and Jesus Christ," and also of you statement, the following conclusion can be drawn:

That, JESUS has two roles as revealed to Simon Peter in Mat 16:16-17:

a. For calling Jesus, "The CHRIST," Peter saw Jesus in His primary role as the "FATHER in the flesh ready to fulfill His testament with His death on the cross."

b. For calling Jesus, "The SON of the living God," Peter saw Jesus in His secondary role as "The Anointed One," the "Eldest Son of God" as MODEL to the chosen, thus:

* Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

If you have an issue with the translation "Jehovah" then use "Yahweh" or "YHWH" or write it in the original Hebrew characters. The point is Yahweh is NOT Jesus / Jeshua. Jesus did not speak of "Myself in Heaven" but of "My Father in Heaven". When Jesus stood in the waters of the Jordan it was not HE that said "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased. THAT voice came from His Father in Heaven - FROM Heaven.

But lets put your oft quoted verse in context:-

Heb 9:14 "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. "

Note that Jesus is the mediator of the new testament (not the Father) in order that HE might die and so bring it into effect.

But note a little further on also that Jesus stands in the PRESENCE of God as indeed the Bible records on many occassions Jesus standing BEFORE Yahweh. In all places the Bible records Jesus and Yahweh as two distinct persons, not the SAME person.

Heb 9:23 "It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us"

Are you aware that to the Apostles and the churches THEY founded the idea of Yahweh and Jesus being the same person was a grievous HERESY?? Check out Irenaeus' "Against Heresies" where it is clearly listed as one of the heretical teachings of the cults that attacked the Apostolic churches from all sides.

I am not sure who has taught you these things you are declaring here but you need to understand that they are very much contrary to the word and teachings of the Bible and of the first Apostolic churches.
 

Ginger

Inactive
POst #1
God has His way of "trying the spirits" whether a person is true or a bogus Christian. This was revealed to John the Beloved Apostle:

1 Joh 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1 Joh 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1 Joh 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Post #44
To the participants of this Thread,

Does not God through this very simple "test for spirits," want us all "to see" WHO Jesus Christ was before coming in the flesh?.......

Question:

Who has really passed this "test for spirit?"

I welcome any question regarding this truth of the TWO ROLES of Jesus Christ.

Post #56
To all concerned:


It is only with this "test for spirits" and passing it that we can definitely and clearly discern pretending "apostles of Christ" in our time.


Fil,

I am having a great deal of trouble figuring out what you are trying to say.

Testing the spirits, in those verses you quoted, is not about finding out who Jesus is. It's about discerning the Spirit sent from God from the imposters so that we will not be tricked or deceived. Which might be what you have said in post #56....but I'm not entirely sure that's what you mean.

And this simple test does not reveal every pseudo-christian, as there are many people who don't believe, but are able to say all the "right" things. They mimmick what they hear others say, but they don't believe it.
 

Ginger

Inactive
How many among us in this worthy FORUM have taken notice of this "test for spirits?"

Honestly speaking, have we hurdled or passed this "test?"
Let us remember the "all-seeing eyes of God" that nothing can be hidden without being exposed in His sight.

:confused:

Give us the test now.

.
 
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