"Try the spirits"
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He has quoted the Scriptures in 1 John that we discussed in another thread. ..... when some of us proclaimed "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior" in response to the verse that says "no one can say Jesus is Lord, except by the Spirit of God"
But the things he's said are a bit confusing as to exactly what he is talking about, demons, people who are possessed or people who simply reject God.
And if people, whether he is talking about their temporary state of mind or the eternal fate - which we cannot claim to know, as people can be saved at any point in time and we cannot see into their hearts as God can.
But the things he's said are a bit confusing as to exactly what he is talking about, demons, people who are possessed or people who simply reject God.
And if people, whether he is talking about their temporary state of mind or the eternal fate - which we cannot claim to know, as people can be saved at any point in time and we cannot see into their hearts as God can.
Here is the "test" to have a view again:
* 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
* 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
* 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
The "test" appears too simple as not to hurdle or pass it. Of course everybody can and confesses that "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." Whatever belief about the identity of Jesus Christ, "all confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh."
Purposely God made this "test" very simple that many people simply shrug and never mind it. But the core of the "test" is:
Who was Jesus Christ BEFORE coming in the flesh?
Okay....maybe it would help to discuss what these verses mean:
* 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
* 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
First, what does "come in the flesh mean?
Even Jehovah Witness will agree Jesus came in the flesh, but they deny he is God incarnate!
They say that "come in the flesh" merely refers to him being born a human. They believe he is a created being - a lesser god.
And some atheists will also acknowledge Jesus has "come in the flesh". They are acknowledging that the man Jesus once existed, but they too deny Jesus is God incarnate. They believe he was just a man like any other man.
But that is not what it means. "Come in the flesh" is a direct claim Jesus is God incarnate. Fully man/fully God.
2. That Jesus is come in the flesh is the core of the Christian faith!!! Now, why can't evil spirits proclaim this fact? There are a couple possibilities I can think of: Our faith in Christ Jesus is what saves us, and they are trying to deceive us and pull us away from God, so they won't acknowledge Jesus is come in the flesh. Or God simply prevents them from it, so we have a clear test to keep us from deception.
* 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
* 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
First, what does "come in the flesh mean?
Even Jehovah Witness will agree Jesus came in the flesh, but they deny he is God incarnate!
They say that "come in the flesh" merely refers to him being born a human. They believe he is a created being - a lesser god.
And some atheists will also acknowledge Jesus has "come in the flesh". They are acknowledging that the man Jesus once existed, but they too deny Jesus is God incarnate. They believe he was just a man like any other man.
But that is not what it means. "Come in the flesh" is a direct claim Jesus is God incarnate. Fully man/fully God.
2. That Jesus is come in the flesh is the core of the Christian faith!!! Now, why can't evil spirits proclaim this fact? There are a couple possibilities I can think of: Our faith in Christ Jesus is what saves us, and they are trying to deceive us and pull us away from God, so they won't acknowledge Jesus is come in the flesh. Or God simply prevents them from it, so we have a clear test to keep us from deception.
Perhaps we need more information, by divine revelation from the very words of God, WHO really was JESUS CHRIST before coming in the flesh.
Sometimes "human wisdom" (opinions, views, bias beliefs, conjectures) may taint God's "intended message" is very dangerous leading to erroneous doctrines.
Sometimes "human wisdom" (opinions, views, bias beliefs, conjectures) may taint God's "intended message" is very dangerous leading to erroneous doctrines.
Ginger, I don't have the right or authority to introduce JESUS CHRIST as He commanded His Disciples in the following:
After Simon Peter truly recognized JESUS:
* Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
* Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
* Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Now look!
* Mat 16:18 ...
* Mat 16:19 ...
* Mat 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
WHY ? ? ?
Well, being endlessly vague wastes my time and, frankly, places one's motives in question. So I will depart with these these final thoughts:
Jesus is the risen Christ, my Lord, my Savior, and my God who has come in the flesh - God incarnate.
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace with whom my allegance remains - forever.
Jesus is the risen Christ, my Lord, my Savior, and my God who has come in the flesh - God incarnate.
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace with whom my allegance remains - forever.
Who are these people? Why do they find the need to be oblique in their postings? Is it to prove they have some insider knowledge beyond that of us mere mortals? Bottom line, if you can not proclaim clearly and loudly that Jesus Christ is the Lord, Son of God Almighty, who became man to save our souls, that you believe in the mystery of the Trinity then there is something wrong with you.
During the time of CHRIST when the Disciples asked Him questions, NO ONE among His Apostles ever ventured to give the answer for as Mark wrote:
* Mark 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
It appears that our Lord ONLY expounded His words to His DISCIPLES.
It is not farfetched therefore if many 0f us get irritated when we do not get the "pin-point" answer to His question, and in this case, JESUS CHRIST "before coming in the flesh."
* 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
* 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
* Mark 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
It appears that our Lord ONLY expounded His words to His DISCIPLES.
It is not farfetched therefore if many 0f us get irritated when we do not get the "pin-point" answer to His question, and in this case, JESUS CHRIST "before coming in the flesh."
* 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
* 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Yes, fil, God reveals Himself to whom He pleases. He will have mercy upon who He pleases, also.
We have proclaimed the risen Christ more than once. Apparently you are nit-picking over the specific words we use, so to set your mind at ease....
We have proclaimed the risen Christ more than once. Apparently you are nit-picking over the specific words we use, so to set your mind at ease....
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.
My Lord and my God!
Ginger, I appreciate your sincere declaration about Jesus Christ. I am only thinking, many also proclaim this. Where now is our Lord's, "Many are called, but only few are chosen."?
fil, I believe you are correct in "Many are called, but only few are chosen." It saddens me to think of those who are following a "feel good" religion created in their own minds. So many nice people foolishly thinking being a "good person" will earn them salvation, or thinking since God is good, everyone is be saved - even "satan will be in paradise" with us!!!
However, I believe you are mistaken about anyone being able to make those claims. I have, on occasion, brought this up to people and requested everyone proclaim "Jesus is Lord." Those who follow false religions cannot. Not even to justify themselves against claims they are following false gods!!!!! Not one person who was able to say those words was offended (one did gently say it was an inappropriate request when her fiance was offended and refused to say the words) But those who could not became angry and insisted they didn't need to say it and they refused.
Yet, those who can are eager to proclaim Jesus!!!!
The first time I read that passage, I immediately said it out loud! I wanted to know if I was really saved or deceived. If feels good to say it. In a forum, I suppose someone could copy and paste. But I don't believe someone who is parishing can say those words out loud.
Just my opinion......but it is based on my understanding of those verses.
Ginger
Ginger, glad to discern you are humble and therefore open to God's revelations from His "written words." Is not this "test for spirits" primarily directed to all professing Christians since all of them accept Jesus Christ is the Savior?
Not all those who claim to be Christian, adhere to the basic doctrines of Christianity. Many I've talked with, at first, will appear to believe the same things I believe. But as we dialogue, I soon discover they don't believe much of what God has proclaimed at all.
There is a Methodist bishop who claims to "believe". He even took the oath stating he believes the basic facts about God that all Christians believe....the fundamental beliefs that define us as "Christian." But, he teaches "God is not a being up there or out there, but rather, God is a picture word we used to explain our existance." In other-words, he only believes them metaphorically, but not literally. God is not a real Being according to him, but a mere fairytale to makes us feel better about ourselves. This opens the door for him to dismiss the virgin birth, the resurrection as well as anything he doesn't like in the Scriptures. None of it is true, according to this bishop. And hes not alone. There are many from every truly Christian denomination who have worked their way into positions of power to teach a gospel contrary to the Apostles.
Yet, they claim to believe, but they are not believing literally but metephorically.
I think I finally understand what you are trying to say.
We, the saved, are mixed in with the unsaved, but we can't tell by mere appearances - hense, the "test."
There is a Methodist bishop who claims to "believe". He even took the oath stating he believes the basic facts about God that all Christians believe....the fundamental beliefs that define us as "Christian." But, he teaches "God is not a being up there or out there, but rather, God is a picture word we used to explain our existance." In other-words, he only believes them metaphorically, but not literally. God is not a real Being according to him, but a mere fairytale to makes us feel better about ourselves. This opens the door for him to dismiss the virgin birth, the resurrection as well as anything he doesn't like in the Scriptures. None of it is true, according to this bishop. And hes not alone. There are many from every truly Christian denomination who have worked their way into positions of power to teach a gospel contrary to the Apostles.
Yet, they claim to believe, but they are not believing literally but metephorically.
I think I finally understand what you are trying to say.
We, the saved, are mixed in with the unsaved, but we can't tell by mere appearances - hense, the "test."Not all those who claim to be Christian, adhere to the basic doctrines of Christianity. Many I've talked with, at first, will appear to believe the same things I believe. But as we dialogue, I soon discover they don't believe much of what God has proclaimed at all.
There is a Methodist bishop who claims to "believe". He even took the oath stating he believes the basic facts about God that all Christians believe....the fundamental beliefs that define us as "Christian." But, he teaches "God is not a being up there or out there, but rather, God is a picture word we used to explain our existance." In other-words, he only believes them metaphorically, but not literally. God is not a real Being according to him, but a mere fairytale to makes us feel better about ourselves. This opens the door for him to dismiss the virgin birth, the resurrection as well as anything he doesn't like in the Scriptures. None of it is true, according to this bishop. And hes not alone. There are many from every truly Christian denomination who have worked their way into positions of power to teach a gospel contrary to the Apostles.
Yet, they claim to believe, but they are not believing literally but metephorically.
I think I finally understand what you are trying to say.
Ginger, yes indeed, many of us omit this basic about the true identity of JESUS CHRIST. This is where this "test the spirit" is based. Let us remember, who do not "profess Jesus Christ is come in the flesh," and it appears that this simple declaration makes a person confident of already "passing the test." How come professing Christians cannot agree on many things about the "inspired words of God" in the Holy Bible?
Have we observed that diverse doctrines are based on "individual interpretations" of the Word of God? Thus, leaders of one group or sect claim the "truth." Another sect does the same, and so on, and so forth...
How, then, can this chaos in Christianity be resolved? This is where God gave us this "test for spirits," for after passing it, we will begin to realize that ONLY God has the authority and power to reveal the "intended meaning of His words."
Thus to repeat, WHO is "Jesus Christ (before) coming in the flesh?" Let us remember, Simon Peter "passed the test" in his declaration about Him in Mat. 16:15-17. Please review the verses.
Oh my gosh!!!!! I understand what you are saying !!!! LOL
I have been so confused for so long when reading your posts and I get what you I trying to say - I read and understand the post above.
The communication barrier has been broken!
That is the heart of the question, "WHO is "Jesus Christ (before) coming in the flesh?"
JW's say he is a created being. God's first creation. They deny his ressurrection in the flesh. (I have studied with them)
Muslims say he was just a man, a great prophet. But NOT even the greatest prophet.
Who we believe Jesus was before coming in the flesh, dictates who he is past, present and future.
fil. at this point I am really praying we believe the same things. It is so exciting for me to finally understand what you are saying. On "WHO is "Jesus Christ (before) coming in the flesh?"
Would you like to share?
I have been so confused for so long when reading your posts and I get what you I trying to say - I read and understand the post above.
The communication barrier has been broken!
That is the heart of the question, "WHO is "Jesus Christ (before) coming in the flesh?"
JW's say he is a created being. God's first creation. They deny his ressurrection in the flesh. (I have studied with them)
Muslims say he was just a man, a great prophet. But NOT even the greatest prophet.
Who we believe Jesus was before coming in the flesh, dictates who he is past, present and future.
fil. at this point I am really praying we believe the same things. It is so exciting for me to finally understand what you are saying. On "WHO is "Jesus Christ (before) coming in the flesh?"
Would you like to share?
Ginger, you made me rejoice with your post. Do you know that this is the kind of “humility” our Lord is expecting from those aspiring to be with Him in eternity?
* Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
While many profess they know Jesus Christ, but still they are subject to His very sharp rebuke that they do not even realize:
* Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Why do we hear many people say, “The infinite FATHER God cannot be truly identified with the finite mind of man. To do so, then we will be like God. Let’s just believe in one God, love Him and our fellowmen. God is merciful and that’s enough for Him.”
Therefore this “test for spirits” is primarily given to separate God’s “chosen” few from the many “called.” Because with this “test,” a person is freed or delivered from the last indictment at Judgment Day:
* Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me…
* Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me…
The “test for spirits” is designed by GOD to show that "LOVE is based on mutual recognition or identification.”
On this Thread, I am sure GOD will lead and help us pass or hurdle this “test for spirits” for His and our glory.