Wages Of Sin?

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LanceA said:
You say traditional Christians want to make it a fight but it is annihilation people who bring this topic up. Well besides my thread which I asked mods to lock because it is already turning into something I didn't want.
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We aren't allowed to bring up our view? Just because there are two threads about it doesn't mean we are trying to pick a fight.

I don't think I have to hide my views. I know differences of opinion upset Christians, but that's something we need to get over.
 
Butch5 said:
Why not, the wages of sin is death. Annihilation is death.
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That is our modern definition of death, but not the biblical one. Death in the Bible generally means separation from God.

For example God told Adam and Eve they would die the day they ate the forbidden fruit. They didn't die physically that day, but they were separated from God the same day.

In the Prodigal Son parable, the younger son didn't die, but the father said he was dead (Luke 15:32).

Before we are saved, we are dead in our sins (Ephesians 2:1). That doesn't mean we don't exist spiritually. It means we are separated from God.
 
Euphemia said:
This isn't about a popular view. This is about a view that undermines the word of God---namely, annihilationism..
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It doesn't though, Euphemia. It's amazing that people that hold the traditional view refuse to even acknowledge the verses that clearly teach that the wicked will perish. I'm not telling you to accept it, but at least respect those that hold the view. I'm not a heretic for believing this view. There is a strong biblical basis for it regardless of whether you accept it or not.

Annihilationism doesn't undermine anything accept that the soul is eternal, which there is no biblical basis for.
 
Huntingteckel said:
It doesn't though, Euphemia. It's amazing that people that hold the traditional view refuse to even acknowledge the verses that clearly teach that the wicked will perish. I'm not telling you to accept it, but at least respect those that hold the view. I'm not a heretic for believing this view. There is a strong biblical basis for it regardless of whether you accept it or not.

Annihilationism doesn't undermine anything accept that the soul is eternal, which there is no biblical basis for.
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The soul and spirit do live forever, as that is the part of us that cannot remain when the body dies. Living forever separated from God is something we cannot fathom, for even the wicked now are never outside of the presence of God. When they are judged, they will then experience what being separated from God REALLY mean!

Annihilation is not in scripture anywhere. It is just a theory that those who are overly fearful hold to.
 
Traditionalists

Answer me this. Do you believe that the belief in Annihilation will strip us of our salvation?
 
Euphemia said:
The soul and spirit do live forever, as that is the part of us that cannot remain when the body dies. Living forever separated from God is something we cannot fathom, for even the wicked now are never outside of the presence of God. When they are judged, they will then experience what being separated from God REALLY mean!

Annihilation is not in scripture anywhere. It is just a theory that those who are overly fearful hold to.
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You quoted no Scripture because you can't. That's Greek philosophy, honey. It didn't come from the Bible.
 
ASUK said:
Traditionalists

Answer me this. Do you believe that the belief in Annihilation will strip us of our salvation?
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No, but I believe, from what others have said, that they wouldn't be a Christian due to the fact that they can't follow a God that would torment a spirit for eternity. If this is what they are basing their faith on then they have no faith in God. I mean just a few threads ago there is a poster asking for help that he couldn't believe in a God that could do some of the things that are in the old test. Another, Annihilation believer, started witnessing to him with Annihilation being the focus. The focus should be Jesus, not oh hey your wrong the unsaved get destroyed in the lake of fire so yay come be a Christian because of this instead of because of Christ. It is completely ridiculous and unbiblical.
 
ASUK said:
Traditionalists

Answer me this. Do you believe that the belief in Annihilation will strip us of our salvation?
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No I don't, but why would a Christian want to hold to a false belief? It seems to me that the common thread in it is that people have a false understanding of who God is and annihilation assuages that discord.
 
Jude 1:7
as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power.

 
ASUK said:
Traditionalists

Answer me this. Do you believe that the belief in Annihilation will strip us of our salvation?
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The danger in believing in the "inhalation" theory is that not only is it in error of Holy Scripture, it also contaminates other scriptures, and makes them ineffective. As the Holy Spirit teaches his saints to compare truth with other truth, so they can gain revelations that could not be received any other way. If one truth is in error, it causes other errors to be believed, and eventually every thing you believe is a lie. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

1 Co 2:12, Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1 Co 2:13, Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1 Co 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
One poster here mentioned am bit complex… yes I think I am : )

I accept both eternal torment and annihilation as valid bible based argument.

Similar to Calvinism and Arminianism

The trouble I see is when people are throwing rocks of "heresy" and "irrationality" to each other....
And, on a dangerous note: those on one side judging "of evil" the other....

I see no need to choose, I can choose both.

For as long as "For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

1 Corinthians 3
New King James Version (NKJV)
Sectarianism Is Carnal
3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?
Watering, Working, Warning
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
Avoid Worldly Wisdom
18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”; [a] 20 and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”[b] 21 Therefore let no one boast in men. For all things are yours: 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come—all are yours. 23 And you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
 
CCW95A said:
If one truth is in error, it causes other errors to be believed, and eventually every thing you believe is a lie.
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That's how we feel about your beliefs. There is more scriptural support for Annihilation than Traditionalism.

You need to stop believing the lie.
 
ASUK said:
That's how we feel about your beliefs. There is more scriptural support for Annihilation than Traditionalism.

You need to stop believing the lie.
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Your friend who said that Adam and Eve did not die the day they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is believing the lie!!
How can someone have more faith in the words of Satan above the Word of God?
 
Butch5 said:
There is one kind of death, physical.
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Au contraire:

Revelation 2:11 (KJV)
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV)
Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14 (KJV)
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8 (KJV)
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Two deaths; physical and spiritual.
 
1 Corinthians 15:53 (NLT)
For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

The wicked will also be given immortal bodies!

Revelation 20:13
The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Jude 1:13
raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.


ALL will at the appointed time (righteous at one time and the wicked at another) be raised to life, with immortal flesh bodies to see God. The righteous will gain eternal life with God and the unrighteous will be forced to live out their eternal life outside of God.
 
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