Well of course it could be called a "work" of faith, which is well-pleasing unto God. But those who "demand" it as a work to be justified are in fact teaching it as a "work" according to the law of works. In this they are in error and defeat the very type and purpose of baptism, which is a picture of death to self-righteousness. For in baptism we die with Christ to all attempts to justify ourselves.
What Does Baptism Mean To You
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Again.....that is not the case at all. Listen Rick........every single person who has gotten saved has prayed a prayer of repentance and they have in fact repented. What you are trying to say is simply something to try and cover up what you now see is not Scripture at all.
Look here at your words.........
" If They cannot because of their situation them just pray for them that the Lord will hear the prayer for that person."
Where do you find that in the Bible????
God hears every single prayer of confession and repentness my dear brother. That is how we all got saved!!!!
Now you say...........
"There is no guarantee they will go into heaven, Unless The Lord himself allows it."
Ricky, Ricky..........Where is that in the Bible. Do you not see that you are making this up as you go along????
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVER LASTING LIFE".
Isn't God's Word a plain enough guarantee???
My friend..........what do you call it when someone says to you........."we are only saved when we repent and then get baptized."????
Is that not something we have added to the salvation experience? If not, then what do you call it?
Well, not sure I disagree with your overall point at all? Most who take this position are trying to enforce a system of "works" according to the "law of works" now my hope in joining this conversation was to bring in the understanding of "works of faith" according to the law of faith. Until one understands these two laws and how they are presented in the New Covenant, one will struggle with many issues and commandments that are giving to us in Christ. Just trying to add some light to the subject, and your post seemed to go directly to the issue. Not trying to refute anything that you had posted, blessing and peace for you are justified in Him.
No brother I am not! You are the one that is teaching denominational theology not me.
We can know a man is saved by his/her changed life.
Ephseians 2:8
"We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves lest we boast".
Now where in that verse are the words........"He that believes and is baptized shall be saved"????
Now where in that verse are the words........"He that believes and is baptized shall be saved"????
Those are the words of how we get saved and it can not be any plainer than that.
Romans 10:9
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED".
Now where in that verse are the words........"He that believes and is baptized shall be saved"????
Matthew 10:32
"Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven".
Acts 8:37
"And Philip said, if thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest, and he answered and said....I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God".
Romans 14:9
"For to this end Christ both died and rose and revived that he might be Lord both of the dead and living".
2 Corth. 5:15
"And that he died for all that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves but unto him which died for them and rose again".
Now where in that verse are the words........"He that believes and is baptized shall be saved"????
How is this Sir:
I Peter 3 v 20 &21 Apostle Peter the man Given the " Keys" in Matthew 16 by Jesus stated this:
" Which sometimes were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the Ark was preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water, The like figure whereunto eight souls were saved by WATER.
The like figure whereunto EVEN BAPTISM DOES ALSO NOW SAVE US (not the putting away of the filth(sin) of the flesh, but the ANSWER of A GOOD CONSCIENCE toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
and let us scan over this one real close...
Acts 2 v 42: "And they ( the converts) continued steadfastly in the APOSTLE' S DOCTRINE and fellowship, and breaking of bread and prayers"
What is the " Apostles' Doctrine"? It is 100% everything taught, preached and shown in The Book of Acts and the Epistles.
And we surely don' t want to pass up this one...
I Timothy 4 v 16: "Take heed unto thyself, and UNTO THE DOCTRINE: continue in them: for in so doing this thou shalt BOTH SAVE THYSELF,AND THEM THAT HEAR THEE".
So now, you can see where I am coming from and where you and others should be studying and seeing and obeying the truth...
I' ll hang up now, and listen...God Bless Sir.
I understood what you were saying my brother.
"Works of faith" come after we are saved and we do them because we want to be obedient to the Lord Jesus.....correct?
That in essence is what James told us about works. We do them because we want to not because we have to and certainly not to be saved by.
You said.........
"Until one understands these two laws and how they are presented in the New Covenant, one will struggle with many issues and commandments that are giving to us in Christ. "
absolutely correct my brother.!!!!
What we have here are several brothers who have been convinced that baptism MUST be done by those who accept Christ as Saviour.
They have mixed up baptism with grace resulting in works that we do to be saved.
There comments have been that anyone not baptized is really not saved.
I have been trying to explain that Baptism is not always possible. It is preferred, I advise all who get saved to follow in believers baptism BUT..........because of logistics, health etc. baptism is simply not possible. There is the argument.
Actually, it rather befuddles me that this has become such a hard doctrine to see, understand and follow through on. It to me is just not this difficult to grasp but I am also very glad we have all gotten along very well over this!
Bless you as well Rick and I am glad we have all been able to communicate without confrontation.
I understand your point in Acts about the Apostles doctrine. Their doctrine was Christ and Him crucified and risen from the dead or as we call it now.....the "gospel".
Which comes first, the baptism or the "good conscience"? And baptism is not limited to Peter but Paul also wrote concerning the issue and even to make the statement that "he baptized no one"... save a few. So to bring baptism into a legalistic formula to "earn" salvation according to the "law of works" is to defeat the very type and purpose of baptism. Baptism is ordained according to the "law of faith" to take it outside of faith is a great error.
Thank you for joining us. The more the merrier. All I am saying my brother is that we are saved totally by God's grace.
We can add nothing to salvation what so ever, which includes being baptized.
We should, I encourage it completely, but it is not a requirement of the gospel in the Scriptures.
Acts 5:1
"Therefore being justified (saved) by FAITH, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ".
We agree brother and often a truth of scripture is revealed to those in error by the mouth of two of three witnesses. blessings to you and your beautiful family.
You are doing like all denominal preachers trying to tie " Faith" by itself as the only
thing to be saved...And skip over other passages to tie it all in.
Here is what you tried to pass off as ""Believe Only" and skip over the rest of the story
( my apologies to the late Paul Harvey)
Acts 8:v 37: Philip told the eunich..." If thou believes with all thine heart thou mayest"
The Eunich told Philip he " BELEIVED" then we read next where Philip took him down INTO THE WATER AND BAPTIZED HIM....*****Attention All Catholics here*****
notice Philip took him DOWN INTO THE WATER...and did nor whip out a bottle of "Holy Water" and sprinkle the Eunich..
Mark 1 v 15: Jesus stated: "The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand,
REPENT YE, and BELEIVE THE GOSPEL"....Jesus could say this because he is God...and is THE WORD..( John 1 v 1 & 14).
Jesus also stated this: Mark 16 v 16 " He That BELEIVES AND....AND....AND is BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED"
That' s is what I told you in so many words about soldiers dying on the battlefield, etc, etc. I told you if that person dies without Baptism, Then it is truly in the hands of Our Lord if that person is saved. Do you or Anyone else including me have any other scriptures that tells us " All are saved, No muss, no fuss, Simply just BELEIVE and your going to Paradise gauranteed"....and you never will find any Scripture guarantees anyone eternal salvation by skirting the Apostle' s Doctrine either.
Major, Sir, I love you in Christ...but you cannot skirt what is written in " The Book"
in favor of some doctrine that is man made bro...your simply fooling yourself. It's Tight....but it' s right!! God Bless...
ummmm how is it " Legalism" when Jesus himself was Water Baptized by John The Baptist as our example to follow in John 3? and when Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3 v 3&5 He must be BORN AGAIN Of Water and Spirit...Was Jesus preaching legalism? or Gospel Truth?!!...Apostle Peter was given the symbolic " Keys" by Jesus 8 Matthew 16. In Acts 2 v 38...He told 5 he converts gathered they must Repent, and Be BAPTIZED in THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for The REMISSION of Sins...and you shall receive The Gift of The Holy Ghost"....We see The Water and The Spirit right there what Jesus told Nicodemus he must do in John 3....So will you say that Apostle Peter, An Apostle of Jesus was using Legalism when he preached the first message to the converts?
And Peter also tells we are SAVED BY WATER ( I Peter 3 v 20-21). Legalism??
You need to read all of the entire NT not just the ones you " Like" the best...Amen
Glomung
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Yes, Ricko, you are being legalistic. (and your rude anti-Catholicism has also been noted).
You gripe about the quantity of water, as if it mattered.
Is ankle deep not good enough? Waste deep minimum?
I was baptised in a galvanized wash bin by a Greek Orthodox Bishop.
Would you call that invalid because the water wasn't deep enough to suit your whims?
You gripe about the quantity of water, as if it mattered.
Is ankle deep not good enough? Waste deep minimum?
I was baptised in a galvanized wash bin by a Greek Orthodox Bishop.
Would you call that invalid because the water wasn't deep enough to suit your whims?
Ricko........everyone reading my posts will tell you that I have done ZERO denominational teaching whatsoever!
I have stuck 100% to the Scriptures over & over my brother.
Of course no one is saved by skirting the Apostles doctrine Rick! Their doctrine was the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ BUT that gospel does not include water baptism.
Rich.........you my brother are the one passing over the Scriptures. You can not just wish away the thief on the cross or the millions of people on their death bed or the millions of people who were saved on a battlefield.
Believe me Rick when I say it is not me that is skirting what is written in the book.
Rude? Legalistic? I have called a lot worse then that Bro, Thanks for the repreive!
Now, let me explain just why a person needs to be Water Baptized in FULL IMMERSION. (1) It is symbolic of The Death, The Burial, And The Resurrection of Jesus Christ at Calvary. A Christian takes on the name of Jesus ( Acts 2 v 38) when they repent and get water baptized in HIS Name.
(1) When we Repent of our old sin and sin nature..we " DIE"
(2) When we totally submerge in the water in Baptism...WE ARE BURIED
old sins washed away, Just like Jesus was buried.
(3) Like Jesus...We RESSURECT to a brand new life....As he resurrected
We also take on the Name in Baptism because Jesus is the " Bridegroom" and his Children are now the " Bride of Christ" His Church.
That is why it is do very important to do what was preached and said in scripture..
Eph. 2:5 __ I have already answered that: we ARE saved by works: God's work in the body of His son.
Rom. 10::9 __ Thoe words were written "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints...". Written to thoem that are already saved: Paul reminding them of their salvation.
Matthew 10:32 __ That is not a salvation scripture, but Jesus speaking to the followers, while fulfilling the OT.
Acts 8:37 __ Glad you brought that up: Phillip did not leave the eunuch without him (the eunuch) getting baptized.
Romans 14:9 __ Again, to WHOM is Paul speaking? It is to believers (already saved): some who are weak in the faith.
2 Corth. 5:15 __ Yes, Jesus died for ALL: that he may "...the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins] of the whole world."
Now where in ANY verse of scripture did the Lord Jesus say, "He that believes is saved without baptism."?
Peter did not say that we are saved by water. Do you not understand the Scriptures? If you read the rest of the verse you say Peter said that you see these words...."Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh".
That means that just as the ark had something to do with the deliverance of Noah's family from the judgment of God, so baptism after accepting Christ as Saviour and the person has the desire to be baptized, he can choose to do so. It does not mean that a person has to be baptized in order to be saved.
I have explained to you and others....The Thief on the Cross died before Jesus did on the Cross...Jesus being God robed in flesh saved the thief by his faith and belief which is how all those saved in the OT were saved. When Jesus drew his final breath, and the veil in the temple was ripped top to bottom...goodbye OT and that dispensation.
We are in the final dispensation plan of salvation which began at Jerusalem in the upper room..Acts chapter 1 &2.
I also told you twice what I said and meant about these deathbed salvation scenarios read them again and again if you will...
First we have to be BAPTIZED TO BE SAVED.
So now we see that we ARE SAVED BY WORKS.
What is next.......Mary was not a virgin?........There is no 2nd Coming of Christ?
You are just wrong and can not put aside your pride to admit it my brother.
I have never met anyone that believed a person who accepts Christ on their death bed was not saved because they were not immersed in water. I been at this a long time, but I have never heard that, ever.
Then to say that the people who were saved in combat are not in heaven because they were not immersed, astounding is about all I can come up with.
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