What Does Baptism Mean To You

[Major]

I have explained to you and others....The Thief on the Cross died before Jesus did on the Cross...Jesus being God robed in flesh saved the thief by his faith and belief which is how all those saved in the OT were saved. When Jesus drew his final breath, and the veil in the temple was ripped top to bottom...goodbye OT and that dispensation.

We are in the final dispensation plan of salvation which began at Jerusalem in the upper room..Acts chapter 1 &2.

I also told you twice what I said and meant about these deathbed salvation scenarios read them again and again if you will...

I have explained to you and others....The Thief on the Cross died before Jesus did on the Cross...Jesus being God robed in flesh saved the thief by his faith and belief which is how all those saved in the OT were saved. When Jesus drew his final breath, and the veil in the temple was ripped top to bottom...goodbye OT and that dispensation.

We are in the final dispensation plan of salvation which began at Jerusalem in the upper room..Acts chapter 1 &2.

I also told you twice what I said and meant about these deathbed salvation scenarios read them again and again if you will...

NO Ricko.....NO!!!!

We are ALL saved by faith because it comes from the GRACE of God. How else can a man be saved except by faith in Jesus.

You are just very wrong and have had some really wrong teaching over the years.

IF we are in the final dispensation plan of salvation, how do you then explain the people saved in the Revelation????

 

[Major]

Eph. 2:5 __ I have already answered that: we ARE saved by works: God's work in the body of His son.
Rom. 10::9 __ Thoe words were written "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints...". Written to thoem that are already saved: Paul reminding them of their salvation.
Matthew 10:32 __ That is not a salvation scripture, but Jesus speaking to the followers, while fulfilling the OT.
Acts 8:37 __ Glad you brought that up: Phillip did not leave the eunuch without him (the eunuch) getting baptized.
Romans 14:9 __ Again, to WHOM is Paul speaking? It is to believers (already saved): some who are weak in the faith.
2 Corth. 5:15 __ Yes, Jesus died for ALL: that he may "...the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins] of the whole world."
Now where in ANY verse of scripture did the Lord Jesus say, "He that believes is saved without baptism."?

I also have read many verses in the Bible that tell us that God wants us to be baptized but I have not found any passages that tell us that if you are not baptized that you cannot be saved from your sins. Passages such as Mark16:16 would have been the perfect place to say it. But God has never told us that. The Bible tells us many times that if we don't believe in Christ (pisteu which means to put your trust in, to rely upon, or to depend upon) that we cannot be saved.

In Acts chapter 16 we see another perfect opportunity to say that you must be baptized to be saved. Starting in verse 16 we see a situation where Paul and Silas were doing God's will and were thrown in prison for it. After being beaten and thrown into the most secure spot the captain of the guards could find for the two we see that God caused an earthquake to open all of the cell doors in the prison. The penalty for the Captain of the guards for this was death. He drew his sword to kill himself rather than face his superiors but Paul and Silas stopped him. The guard came to them trembling and humbled and asked them as plain as possible "What must I do to be saved?" Verse 31 tells us "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." If baptism were necessary for salvation they would have told him so.

 

[Major]

We agree brother and often a truth of scripture is revealed to those in error by the mouth of two of three witnesses. blessings to you and your beautiful family.

What a wonderful thing to say. Thank you my brother and may the Lord bless you as well.

 

[Ricko1]

Peter did not say that we are saved by water. Do you not understand the Scriptures? If you read the rest of the verse you say Peter said that you see these words...."Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh".

That means that just as the ark had something to do with the deliverance of Noah's family from the judgment of God, so baptism after accepting Christ as Saviour and the person has the desire to be baptized, he can choose to do so. It does not mean that a person has to be baptized in order to be saved.

Again, I disagree with your interpretation of what Peter declared in I PETER 3 v 20-21. He said we are " Saved by Water just like those on Noah' s Ark were saved by water on the Ark...that is the only correct way to explain it. You keep insisting Faith is all we need. But The Scriptures I keep re doing over and over for you to see goes in one ear and out the other. Jesus told us to be Water Baptized in John 3 v 3&5/ Mark 16 v 16....The Apostles taught and obeyed it...Acts 2 v 38../ Acts 9 v 18..Pauls' Baptism/
Acts 10 verses 1=48....Verses 43-48...Peter tells them in verse 43 Peter tells them: " To him ( Jesus/ God) give all the prophets witness, that through his name WHOSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM shall have Remission of sins...

Now if we stop right there...All one has to do is " Believe in Him, and he shall have remission of Sins"....This is what you believe and teach and try to convince everyone on here that this is the Salvation plan.....case closed??

Now read further on Major...verse 47.." Can any man FORBID WATER, that THESE should not be BAPTIZED, which have received The Holy Ghost as well as WE?????

verSe 48: " And HE ( PETER) COMMANDED.....COMMANDED......COMMANDED them to be BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD ( Jesus as in Acts 2 v 38)....."

You just read it Brown point blank...They believed then Peter COMMANDED THEM to be Water Baptized in the Name of Jesus!! Glory to God!!

One last example is Found in Acts 19 verses 1=6.....Apostle finds the former Disciples of John The Baptist....He asks them; " Have you received the HOLY GHOST SINCE YOU BELEIVED? they then tell Paul they never received or heard about any Holy Ghost.

Paul asks them: " Unto what then we're you Baptized"? Then then tell Paul they were Baptized by John The Baptist....Paul explains that John' s Baptism was only for Repentance, and then told them They should believe on Jesus..

verses 5 & 6 " WHEN THEY HEARD THIS, THEY WERE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS"

verse 6 " And when Paul had laid hands on them, THE HOLY GHOST Came upon them, AND THEY SPOKE WITH TONGUES, And PROPHESIED!!!!!!

I rest my case....If you can' t see and believe that then read I I Corinthians 4 v 4 for the possible reason...just sayin'

 

[Ricko1]

I never stated Faith is not needed to be part of the equation to be saved. What I am saying is by someone reading the New Testament they says all the ways a Christian is " Saved"

The Scriptures tell us we are saved by all the following:

Saved by Works

Saved by Faith

Saved By Hope

Saved by Water....etc etc etc.

You or I cannot take just one way to be saved then deny the rest. I have done that. This thread is about Water Baptism that was the title and the explanation thereof.

I never stated The dying Soldier on the battlefield could not be saved either that situation was never presented in scripture That is why I said I would leave that up to The Lord. Why did I say that? Because I have no scripture to say Yes or No on this. You ASSUME they will be saved...but cannot tell me you can be totally sure either. I don' t tell people anything about Salvation or on Spiritual Matters unless I am Positively Sure.

If you want to teach that, it is between you and The Lord all I am saying bro. God Bless

 

[Ricko1]

Let us move on now to another subject instead of what we are doing now..not fruitful.I still Love you and Everybody in Jesus Name..

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

I also have read many verses in the Bible that tell us that God wants us to be baptized but I have not found any passages that tell us that if you are not baptized that you cannot be saved from your sins. Passages such as Mark16:16 would have been the perfect place to say it. But God has never told us that. The Bible tells us many times that if we don't believe in Christ (pisteu which means to put your trust in, to rely upon, or to depend upon) that we cannot be saved.

In Acts chapter 16 we see another perfect opportunity to say that you must be baptized to be saved. Starting in verse 16 we see a situation where Paul and Silas were doing God's will and were thrown in prison for it. After being beaten and thrown into the most secure spot the captain of the guards could find for the two we see that God caused an earthquake to open all of the cell doors in the prison. The penalty for the Captain of the guards for this was death. He drew his sword to kill himself rather than face his superiors but Paul and Silas stopped him. The guard came to them trembling and humbled and asked them as plain as possible "What must I do to be saved?" Verse 31 tells us "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." If baptism were necessary for salvation they would have told him so.

Acts 16:31 __ The jailer believe and his house believed the gospel message, and were consequently baptized! You see, they could not believe without hearing the gospel that saves, nor would they be baptized without believing the gospel. It all goes hand-in-hand. But I see that you are still arguing for them that are already passed away. The Lord Jesus has already taken care of them. Wait a minute: if I am not mistaken, you believe that you have already received the Holy Spirit by faith, and not through faith, right? "For by grace (the Holy Spirit) are you saved, through faith...and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is unto...".
The Holy Spirit is the manifestation of "grace" one receives through faith: "...it is the gift of God." The Holy Spirit is given to man, because "If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man...But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison." If a man can tame the tongue, then he is able also to tame the body. But now man still comes and says that Jesus has forgiven everyone, but don't believe Jesus when He says: "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved." So you think Jesus only made one mistake? I know He didn't make any mistakes!

 

[Ricko1]

Acts 16:31 __ The jailer believe and his house believed the gospel message, and were consequently baptized! You see, they could not believe without hearing the gospel that saves, nor would they be baptized without believing the gospel. It all goes hand-in-hand. But I see that you are still arguing for them that are already passed away. The Lord Jesus has already taken care of them. Wait a minute: if I am not mistaken, you believe that you have already received the Holy Spirit by faith, and not through faith, right? "For by grace (the Holy Spirit) are you saved, through faith...and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is unto...".
The Holy Spirit is the manifestation of "grace" one receives through faith: "...it is the gift of God." The Holy Spirit is given to man, because "If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man...But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison." If a man can tame the tongue, then he is able also to tame the body. But now man still comes and says that Jesus has forgiven everyone, but don't believe Jesus when He says: "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved." So you think Jesus only made one mistake? I know He didn't make any mistakes!

I am done..move on were butting heads on this we are tied...

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

First we have to be BAPTIZED TO BE SAVED.
No, we NEED to be baptized.
So now we see that we ARE SAVED BY WORKS.
Yes we are: by the work the Lord performed at His death, burial, and resurrection.
What is next.......Mary was not a virgin?........There is no 2nd Coming of Christ?
Mary WAS a virgin, and the Lord WILL come once more.
You are just wrong and can not put aside your pride to admit it my brother.
Yes, I am PROUD to quote the Lord Jesus because He "...called me out of darkness and into His marvelous light. And, Beloved, it IS marvelous!
I have never met anyone that believed a person who accepts Christ on their death bed was not saved because they were not immersed in water. I been at this a long time, but I have never heard that, ever.
You have not been listening. Jesus is well able to raise ANYONE from their deathbed. We prayed for a man 3-4 months into a coma, and the Lord raised him up. Why? Just maybe because we believed He could!
Then to say that the people who were saved in combat are not in heaven because they were not immersed, astounding is about all I can come up with.
Beloved, you have never heard me say that. You have heard another voice that was not mine even as I spoke (through this forum). I have continually said that we should speak the gospel that saves to those who are alive and well. At least, that is what I have been trying to convey.

 

[Ricko1]

The problem is you believe anything but the actual Gospel and everything it takes to put it all together to be saved...Close Shop We cannot agree..Let it go...Good night God Bless...

 

[Mitspa]

ummmm how is it " Legalism" when Jesus himself was Water Baptized by John The Baptist as our example to follow in John 3? and when Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3 v 3&5 He must be BORN AGAIN Of Water and Spirit...Was Jesus preaching legalism? or Gospel Truth?!!...Apostle Peter was given the symbolic " Keys" by Jesus 8 Matthew 16. In Acts 2 v 38...He told 5 he converts gathered they must Repent, and Be BAPTIZED in THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for The REMISSION of Sins...and you shall receive The Gift of The Holy Ghost"....We see The Water and The Spirit right there what Jesus told Nicodemus he must do in John 3....So will you say that Apostle Peter, An Apostle of Jesus was using Legalism when he preached the first message to the converts?

And Peter also tells we are SAVED BY WATER ( I Peter 3 v 20-21). Legalism??

You need to read all of the entire NT not just the ones you " Like" the best...Amen

Well of course one who attempts to promote legalism will never admit their legalism. Also , not sure what point you are trying to make by your selection of scripture? The water to which the Lords speaks is without doubt "the Word" which is confirmed throughout the New Testament. So not sure that you have made any biblical point as it relates to the purpose or the relation of baptism in Gods plan of salvation. The law of faith is the only acceptable condition of baptism before God, any who attempt to promote baptism as a "work" unto salvation is in error and has failed to understand the very meaning and purpose of baptism.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word

 

[Major]

The problem is you believe anything but the actual Gospel and everything it takes to put it all together to be saved...Close Shop We cannot agree..Let it go...Good night God Bless...

No brother, the problem is that I accept the Bible with out any additions or opinions of my own. It is what it is not what I want it to be.

I agree, this is a good place to move on.

See ya on another thread.

 

[Ricko1]

No brother, the problem is that I accept the Bible with out any additions or opinions of my own. It is what it is not what I want it to be.

I agree, this is a good place to move on.

See ya on another thread.

On wrong thread..oops!

 

[Major]

Acts 16:31 __ The jailer believe and his house believed the gospel message, and were consequently baptized! You see, they could not believe without hearing the gospel that saves, nor would they be baptized without believing the gospel. It all goes hand-in-hand. But I see that you are still arguing for them that are already passed away. The Lord Jesus has already taken care of them. Wait a minute: if I am not mistaken, you believe that you have already received the Holy Spirit by faith, and not through faith, right? "For by grace (the Holy Spirit) are you saved, through faith...and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is unto...".
The Holy Spirit is the manifestation of "grace" one receives through faith: "...it is the gift of God." The Holy Spirit is given to man, because "If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man...But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison." If a man can tame the tongue, then he is able also to tame the body. But now man still comes and says that Jesus has forgiven everyone, but don't believe Jesus when He says: "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved." So you think Jesus only made one mistake? I know He didn't make any mistakes!

You said above........
"The Holy Spirit is the manifestation of "grace" one receives through faith".

NOPE. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Trinity. HE is God.

Grace then is LOVE IN ACTION!

No, Jesus never made a mistake and shame on you for even suggesting such a thing.

Again, for at least the 10th time, YES !!! All believers should be baptized as an act of obedience BUT NOT to be saved!!!

I have read many verses in the Bible that tell us that God wants us to be baptized, so I agree with your statement, but I have not found any passages that tell us that if you are not baptized that you cannot be saved from your sins.

Can you list any that say that for me???????

Never mind brother. There are none so do not waste your time.

This is getting a little to "chippy" for me and I can see what is coming over the hill. So, it is a good time to bow out and wish you God's speed and blessings in your study for truth.

See ya on another thread.

 

[Major]

I never stated Faith is not needed to be part of the equation to be saved. What I am saying is by someone reading the New Testament they says all the ways a Christian is " Saved"

The Scriptures tell us we are saved by all the following:

Saved by Works

Saved by Faith

Saved By Hope

Saved by Water....etc etc etc.

You or I cannot take just one way to be saved then deny the rest. I have done that. This thread is about Water Baptism that was the title and the explanation thereof.

I never stated The dying Soldier on the battlefield could not be saved either that situation was never presented in scripture That is why I said I would leave that up to The Lord. Why did I say that? Because I have no scripture to say Yes or No on this. You ASSUME they will be saved...but cannot tell me you can be totally sure either. I don' t tell people anything about Salvation or on Spiritual Matters unless I am Positively Sure.

If you want to teach that, it is between you and The Lord all I am saying bro. God Bless

Actually Ricko....the Scriptures tell us something else don't they?

Ephes. 2:8
"We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves lest we should boast".

I think that pretty much places our differences in perspective.

Major out and may the Lord bless you Rick!

 

[aha]

All believers should be baptized as an act of obedience BUT NOT to be saved....

Yes, I think it is more on obedience, on righteousness....

Matthew 3:13-15

The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.

 

[Ricko1]

You said above........
"The Holy Spirit is the manifestation of "grace" one receives through faith".

NOPE. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Trinity. HE is God.

Grace then is LOVE IN ACTION!

No, Jesus never made a mistake and shame on you for even suggesting such a thing.

Again, for at least the 10th time, YES !!! All believers should be baptized as an act of obedience BUT NOT to be saved!!!

I have read many verses in the Bible that tell us that God wants us to be baptized, so I agree with your statement, but I have not found any passages that tell us that if you are not baptized that you cannot be saved from your sins.

Can you list any that say that for me???????

Never mind brother. There are none so do not waste your time.

This is getting a little to "chippy" for me and I can see what is coming over the hill. So, it is a good time to bow out and wish you God's speed and blessings in your study for truth.

See ya on another thread.

One final thought on Water Baptism before I bow out Major. You say you never read where Water Baptism Saves anyone...but then deny what Apostle Peter tells in in I Peter 3 v 20-21. How so? Peter told us we are SAVED by Water Baptism. I agree that is not the only ingredient to be saved...and yes FAITH And Belief in the entire Gospel is all part of it together, and not separate in meaning from the other.

I once declared unto you that if a person is on their death bed and cannot be water baptized then it is in the hands of Our Lord if this person is going to go to heaven. I cannot or you or anybody rightfully claim this person died " Saved"...God himself determines that. Don' t get me wrong...I would love for everyone to be saved. But many will not make it. Simply because they did not follow the exact Bible taught, New Testament Salvation plan as practiced in The first century church started by Jesus and his original Apostles.....OK I am done on this...moving on.

 

[aha]

what Apostle Peter tells in in I Peter 3 v 20-21.

1 Peter 3:19-22
19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

 

[Ricko1]

Actually Ricko....the Scriptures tell us something else don't they?

Ephes. 2:8
"We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves lest we should boast".

I think that pretty much places our differences in perspective.

Major out and may the Lord bless you Rick!

Let me address this before I move on;
" We are saved by grace, not of ourselves lest any man boast"

Absolutely, I agree with that. Let' s define what it says to be truthful.

All of us who come to Jesus ARE saved by his mercy and grace. And no one can do enough good works or give enough money...or open 500 missionary outposts worldwide and earn their way to heaven...But...But is that it? No Baptism, No Faith, No obedience to Our Lord, and his blood bought Gospel? In other words you are hanging on your choice of scriptures, and disregard the entire context laid out?

Delusion is rampant today..Just WOW!!

 

[Ricko1]

1 Peter 3:19-22
19 After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[e] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

You must be using a newer version of the Bible...

Here is verbatim what my KJV states in I Peter 3 v 20 &21

20. Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the Ark was preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by WATER.

21. The like figure where unto even BAPTISM doth also NOW SAVE US ( Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Amen

Not let us go through these two verses to see exactly what Apostle Peter is saying in meaning....

In Verse 20 Peter is talking about Noah' s Ark and 8 people were saved by the Water they were floating upon in said Ark.

Verse 21..." THE LIKE FIGURE" ( Amount of People or more) Even Baptism Doth ALSO NOW SAVE US not the putting away of the filth of the flesh..( true repentance) but the answer of a good conscience toward God...(Saying our Repentance ALONE will not save us, but Baptism in Water does save us. And of course add Faith, trust, Obedience to God and honor his blood bought Word....All those things save us..Not one without the other. If you " Accept Jesus, as My Personal Savior" To do that in FAITH you MUST ACCEPT and believe in his word also. It does not work any other way.

Why would anyone want to willfully disobey God' s written word, and have their ears tickled by some so called " Preacher" or Pastor, or Evangelust, or whoever who gives a feel good message and lying to people on how to be saved, when he himself has not obeyed or followed God' s exact word?

I have said this a few times on here....Put your FAITH and TRUST In JESUS CHRIST and His Word, or the words spoken by his Original Apostles. That is what we are to do...Believe and do what it says, simple.

The Devil however has another plan...Create different ways to subvert the true plan to get to heaven, and various Denominations, Religions, Faiths to accomplish his goal.

People truly want to be obedient unto God and are sincere and dedicated...But are going to pay an awful price for their trust and man over God and his pure non confusing word..