What Does Baptism Mean To You

[aha]

What does My Church Practice?

We teach and practice what Jesus and his original Apostles taught. We are The First Century Christian Church by definition and practices. We are known by many names such as a United Pentecostal Church or Apostolic lighthouse, or Church of The Lord Jesus Christ. Not every Church name maybe of the same practices or even the exact doctrine since some churches may not even practice the correct doctrine so " Name" is actually Irrelevent. UPC Churches are a group that believes the proper doctrine, however we are Independent of that group, and I have attended UPC Churches in the past while on vacation or traveling on buisness.

Thanks, for the reply… I read the Wikipedia page on United Pentecostal and with what I read so far: I have no issues with its belief, in fact it is in accordance with what I know....

Going back to the wafer:

I read the United Pentecostal also practice the “Lord’s Supper” (link below)

Question if your time may:

Disregarding the official, formal, legal ideas/legalistic definition of the Catholic Church...

A member of UPCI has the reason to take the “Lord’s Supper”
If that same reason is in the heart, in the mind of a Catholic in taking the wafer, is there still a difference?


http://christianity.about.com/od/United-Pentecostal-Church/a/UPCI-Beliefs.htm

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Not sure where you would get that translation? In effect it does not matter as to the point I made, my point being in regards to salvation and baptism as a "response to salvation", according to the law of faith.

I got that translation from the Lord Jesus about 25+ years ago: I was asking Him about all the confusion regarding Jn. 3:3 __ all denominations were using it, yet not saying the same thing. Why don't you ask him?
The "Law of Faith" will lead a person to the "Law of Grace". We are not saved by faith if we misapply faith; rather, we are saved by Grace through faith, "...except you have believed in vain."
II Cor. 3:15-18 __ is not speaking about baptism: although it touches upon the Old Testament, it can easily be applied to the New: and it refers to the Jews (or anyone) that has a veil over their eyes and will not see until the Holy Spirit takes away the veil. Most folks have allowed the modernists to put a veil over their eyes so that they cannot see (understand, perceive) the importance of baptism or the Holy Spirit: saying they have the Holy Spirit by faith (as opposed to through faith).
One is not saved by consensus; that is, by agreement. We are saved by Grace (the promise) through faith, which is, "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall received the gift (the promise of Grace) of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is unto you, and unto your children...".

 

[Ricko1]

Thanks, for the reply… I read the Wikipedia page on United Pentecostal and with what I read so far: I have no issues with its belief, in fact it is in accordance with what I know....

Going back to the wafer:

I read the United Pentecostal also practice the “Lord’s Supper” (link below)

Question if your time may:

Disregarding the official, formal, legal ideas/legalistic definition of the Catholic Church...

A member of UPCI has the reason to take the “Lord’s Supper”
If that same reason is in the heart, in the mind of a Catholic in taking the wafer, is there still a difference?


http://christianity.about.com/od/United-Pentecostal-Church/a/UPCI-Beliefs.htm

Our Communion is of pieces of bread and Un fermented Grape juice ( Freshly Squeezed Grapes) The Eucharist the RCC claims that a person receives Jesus by taking the little wafer which cannot be true. The scripture says that God does not dwell in anything made with hands.

In Communion in the RCC, The priest supposedly calls Jesus down from heaven and Jesus enters the wafer ( Eucharist) and the Catholics receive the wafer led to believe Jesus is in that wafer so they gladly receive it, believing Jesus is there.

As I stated..This idea was never started by either Jesus or His chosen Apostles. It was
" Borrowed" from The Pagan Egyptian Religion who did the same exact thing.
The only difference....The Egyptian Priest told the pagan followers they received the Sun God Trinity when they took the wafer.
It is called..Transubsination.

Jesus did break bread and drink wine with his Apostles at the Last Supper, he told them ""Do this in remembrance of me".
So most Churches take bread and " Wine" as our remembrance of The Last Supper before he was crucified.

 

[Ricko1]

Our Communion is of pieces of bread and Un fermented Grape juice ( Freshly Squeezed Grapes) The Eucharist the RCC claims that a person receives Jesus by taking the little wafer which cannot be true. The scripture says that God does not dwell in anything made with hands.

In Communion in the RCC, The priest supposedly calls Jesus down from heaven and Jesus enters the wafer ( Eucharist) and the Catholics receive the wafer led to believe Jesus is in that wafer so they gladly receive it, believing Jesus is there.

As I stated..This idea was never started by either Jesus or His chosen Apostles. It was
" Borrowed" from The Pagan Egyptian Religion who did the same exact thing.
The only difference....The Egyptian Priest told the pagan followers they received the Sun God Trinity when they took the wafer.
It is called..Transubsination.

Jesus did break bread and drink wine with his Apostles at the Last Supper, he told them ""Do this in remembrance of me".
So most Churches take bread and " Wine" as our remembrance of The Last Supper before he was crucified.

Drinking of Fermented Grapes, " Wine" or Un Fermented Grapes is still called " Wine" in the Bible. The difference is Christians who have Repented of their Sins, do not partake of Alcohol in beverages...zero

I have the Scriptures to back this up, several in fact. The Scriptures bear out this fact that Jesus and his Apostles partook of Un Fermented Grape Juice..." Wine" and not Mogan David, Thunderbird, or any other Alcohol Wine..

 

[Mitspa]

I got that translation from the Lord Jesus about 25+ years ago: I was asking Him about all the confusion regarding Jn. 3:3 __ all denominations were using it, yet not saying the same thing. Why don't you ask him?
The "Law of Faith" will lead a person to the "Law of Grace". We are not saved by faith if we misapply faith; rather, we are saved by Grace through faith, "...except you have believed in vain."
II Cor. 3:15-18 __ is not speaking about baptism: although it touches upon the Old Testament, it can easily be applied to the New: and it refers to the Jews (or anyone) that has a veil over their eyes and will not see until the Holy Spirit takes away the veil. Most folks have allowed the modernists to put a veil over their eyes so that they cannot see (understand, perceive) the importance of baptism or the Holy Spirit: saying they have the Holy Spirit by faith (as opposed to through faith).
One is not saved by consensus; that is, by agreement. We are saved by Grace (the promise) through faith, which is, "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall received the gift (the promise of Grace) of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is unto you, and unto your children...".

Very glad you have such a relationship with the Lord that He would change the meaning of the Greek text? Forgive me, if I do not accept your revelation without some spiritual judgment of my own. I assure you my relationship with Christ allows me to seek the truth without fear. Now, I am not sure what point you are trying to make or if you are trying to agree or disagree with some point that I have made? Seeing you like to teach others, perhaps you could give a more clear understanding of what "you" understand the "law of faith" and "law of grace" to mean? Then by this I might judge your ability to receive such revelation from the Lord Himself, as it relates to the reading of the very text.

 

[Mitspa]

Drinking of Fermented Grapes, " Wine" or Un Fermented Grapes is still called " Wine" in the Bible. The difference is Christians who have Repented of their Sins, do not partake of Alcohol in beverages...zero

I have the Scriptures to back this up, several in fact. The Scriptures bear out this fact that Jesus and his Apostles partook of Un Fermented Grape Juice..." Wine" and not Mogan David, Thunderbird, or any other Alcohol Wine..

Like to see that scripture? New Testament if you don't mind.

 

[Ricko1]

Like to see that scripture? New Testament if you don't mind.

Why New Testament only? I can prove it by what all the Scriptures teach...not just New Testament...Both Testaments...

 

[Glomung]

Ricko1 -you're just making this stuff up.
Where in the entire Bible does it state that wine is anything other than wine?
BTW fresh grape juice kept at room temperature will begin to ferment within hours.

" The difference is Christians who have Repented of their Sins, do not partake of Alcohol in beverages...zero"
Really?
I never trust a man who won't drink alcohol. Invariably it's because he has no self control and acts like a complete idiot when he gets a drink or two under his belt.
You see, alcohol has the magical property of bringing out the real person behind the facade.

 

[Mitspa]

Why New Testament only? I can prove it by what all the Scriptures teach...not just New Testament...Both Testaments...

You do understand that by the Blood of Christ, we have been given a "NEW" covenant, based upon "liberty" in Christ and not bondage to "OLD" written code of the law. So of course the "old" must be subject to the "new" and all that was written in the old, must be understood to be fulfilled by the Spirit working in and through us to fulfill the New Covenant.

 

[Mitspa]

Ricko1 -you're just making this stuff up.
Where in the entire Bible does it state that wine is anything other than wine?
BTW fresh grape juice kept at room temperature will begin to ferment within hours.

" The difference is Christians who have Repented of their Sins, do not partake of Alcohol in beverages...zero"
Really?
I never trust a man who won't drink alcohol. Invariably it's because he has no self control and acts like a complete idiot when he gets a drink or two under his belt.
You see, alcohol has the magical property of bringing out the real person behind the facade.

The strength of sin is the law, the more they make these legalistic rules.. the more sinful they become in their lust. Legalism produces nothing but dead religion.

 

[lynn w]

There is a difference between legalism and obedience though, right?

 

[Ricko1]

Why New Testament only? I can prove it by what all the Scriptures teach...not just New Testament...Both Testaments...

Let me start with OT first...then move to NT.

Proverbs 20 v 1
"Wine is a mocker, STRONG DRINK is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is NOT WISE"

Joel 1 v 5 " Awake, Ye Drunkards, And weep: and Howl, ALL YOU DRINKERS OF WINE, because of the NEW WINE, for it is cut off from your mouth"
( The " New wine" is typology for The Holy Spirit, if you care to research it)

Proverbs 31 v 6: " Give STRONG DRINK unto them that is ready to perish, and WINE unto those that be of heavy hearts"

Isaiah 56 v 12 : " Come ye, say they, I will fetch WINE and we fill ourselves WITH STRONG DRINK, and tomorrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant".

Isaiah 5 v 22 " Woe unto them that are mighty to drink WINE, and men of strong drink"...

Isaiah 28 v 7:"But they have ALSO ERRED through Wine, AND Strong Drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of their way through STRONG DRINK, THEY ERR IN VISION, they Stumble in Judgement".

There are some of the OT Scriptures and was thought of Drinking Alcohol whether in Wine or Whisky..

New Testament

Ephesians 5 v 18 " And be not drunk with wine wherein is excess ( gluttony) but be filled with the spirit".

I Peter 4 v 3 " For the time past of our life (when they were unrepentant sinners) may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in Lasciviousness, lusts, EXCESS OF WINE,
revellings, banquerings, and abominable idolatries"

So it is plain as I stated " Wine" has two meanings in Scripture..Fermented " Strong Drink" or...Unfermented Wine...Grape juice, or freshly squeezed grapes.

And here is the clincher of why Christians should not partake of anything that can eventually destroy their bodies with any type of Alcohol., or Illicit drugs, or any thing that can possibly cause an addiction, or Simply cause destruction of Liver, Kidneys, Brain Cells, etc

I Corinthians 3 v 16-18 " Know ye not that you are the temple of God?, and the Spirit of God dwells in you? IF ANY MAN DEFILES THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY. For the temple of God is HOLY, which temple you are.
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seems to be wise in this world; LET HIM BECOME A FOOL, that he be WISE".

I think that sums up well why no professed to be Christian person partakes of Any Alcohol of any type drink. Or Marijuana, or anything that would defile your body in any way....It is the Temple of God..Amen

 

[Mitspa]

Let me start with OT first...then move to NT.

Proverbs 20 v 1
"Wine is a mocker, STRONG DRINK is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is NOT WISE"

Joel 1 v 5 " Awake, Ye Drunkards, And weep: and Howl, ALL YOU DRINKERS OF WINE, because of the NEW WINE, for it is cut off from your mouth"
( The " New wine" is typology for The Holy Spirit, if you care to research it)

Proverbs 31 v 6: " Give STRONG DRINK unto them that is ready to perish, and WINE unto those that be of heavy hearts"

Isaiah 56 v 12 : " Come ye, say they, I will fetch WINE and we fill ourselves WITH STRONG DRINK, and tomorrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant".

Isaiah 5 v 22 " Woe unto them that are mighty to drink WINE, and men of strong drink"...

Isaiah 28 v 7:"But they have ALSO ERRED through Wine, AND Strong Drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of their way through STRONG DRINK, THEY ERR IN VISION, they Stumble in Judgement".

There are some of the OT Scriptures and was thought of Drinking Alcohol whether in Wine or Whisky..

New Testament

Ephesians 5 v 18 " And be not drunk with wine wherein is excess ( gluttony) but be filled with the spirit".

I Peter 4 v 3 " For the time past of our life (when they were unrepentant sinners) may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in Lasciviousness, lusts, EXCESS OF WINE,
revellings, banquerings, and abominable idolatries"

So it is plain as I stated " Wine" has two meanings in Scripture..Fermented " Strong Drink" or...Unfermented Wine...Grape juice, or freshly squeezed grapes.

And here is the clincher of why Christians should not partake of anything that can eventually destroy their bodies with any type of Alcohol., or Illicit drugs, or any thing that can possibly cause an addiction, or Simply cause destruction of Liver, Kidneys, Brain Cells, etc

I Corinthians 3 v 16-18 " Know ye not that you are the temple of God?, and the Spirit of God dwells in you? IF ANY MAN DEFILES THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY. For the temple of God is HOLY, which temple you are.
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seems to be wise in this world; LET HIM BECOME A FOOL, that he be WISE".

I think that sums up well why no professed to be Christian person partakes of Any Alcohol of any type drink. Or Marijuana, or anything that would defile your body in any way....It is the Temple of God..Amen

Well your opinion is in direct conflict with the scriptures. As the Lord said: "nothing that a man puts into his body, defiles a man, but what comes from a mans heart" Wine (fermented) is clearly that which is prescribed at the Lords table.

Even as Paul rebuked those who where getting "drunk" and the Lords supper. One does not get drunk on grape juice. lol

1Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

 

[Mitspa]

There is a difference between legalism and obedience though, right?

Yes obedience of faith, according to the "law of faith" that works according to the scriptures (as a man believes in his heart, so is he)
The "law of works" is a rejection of the Cross.

 

[Ricko1]

You do understand that by the Blood of Christ, we have been given a "NEW" covenant, based upon "liberty" in Christ and not bondage to "OLD" written code of the law. So of course the "old" must be subject to the "new" and all that was written in the old, must be understood to be fulfilled by the Spirit working in and through us to fulfill the New Covenant.

So what are you are trying to convince us, is every sin, or unrighteous thing done in the OT is now OK to put it aside..and sin on huh? ha ha that is hilarious..excuse Me I could not help myself...

Let me start with OT first...then move to NT.

Proverbs 20 v 1
"Wine is a mocker, STRONG DRINK is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is NOT WISE"

Joel 1 v 5 " Awake, Ye Drunkards, And weep: and Howl, ALL YOU DRINKERS OF WINE, because of the NEW WINE, for it is cut off from your mouth"
( The " New wine" is typology for The Holy Spirit, if you care to research it)

Proverbs 31 v 6: " Give STRONG DRINK unto them that is ready to perish, and WINE unto those that be of heavy hearts"

Isaiah 56 v 12 : " Come ye, say they, I will fetch WINE and we fill ourselves WITH STRONG DRINK, and tomorrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant".

Isaiah 5 v 22 " Woe unto them that are mighty to drink WINE, and men of strong drink"...

Isaiah 28 v 7:"But they have ALSO ERRED through Wine, AND Strong Drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of their way through STRONG DRINK, THEY ERR IN VISION, they Stumble in Judgement".

There are some of the OT Scriptures and was thought of Drinking Alcohol whether in Wine or Whisky..

New Testament

Ephesians 5 v 18 " And be not drunk with wine wherein is excess ( gluttony) but be filled with the spirit".

I Peter 4 v 3 " For the time past of our life (when they were unrepentant sinners) may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in Lasciviousness, lusts, EXCESS OF WINE,
revellings, banquerings, and abominable idolatries"

So it is plain as I stated " Wine" has two meanings in Scripture..Fermented " Strong Drink" or...Unfermented Wine...Grape juice, or freshly squeezed grapes.

And here is the clincher of why Christians should not partake of anything that can eventually destroy their bodies with any type of Alcohol., or Illicit drugs, or any thing that can possibly cause an addiction, or Simply cause destruction of Liver, Kidneys, Brain Cells, etc

I Corinthians 3 v 16-18 " Know ye not that you are the temple of God?, and the Spirit of God dwells in you? IF ANY MAN DEFILES THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY. For the temple of God is HOLY, which temple you are.
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seems to be wise in this world; LET HIM BECOME A FOOL, that he be WISE".

I think that sums up well why no professed to be Christian person partakes of Any Alcohol of any type drink. Or Marijuana, or anything that would defile your body in any way....It is the Temple of God..Amen

Let me give my personal testimony on Drinking and Drugs.

Prior to my coming to Jesus in October 1987...I drank probably 5 six packs of beer per week, Jack Daniels, Seagrams etc at various times of the year as well Was not a big MJ taker, but did some Maui Wowee etc. Did all that for years. Came to an Evangelistic service with my second wife...And WHAM I felt something in my heart I never felt before...and that night, 26 years+ I never picked up another drink, cigarette, or Joint. Never gambled again, and am happier then ever before and willing to do whatever it takes to please the Lord for what he did that night for me...I owe him all I have...

Now, I realize I was an addict...and some reading this may be thinking...I am not an addict like he was...I can handle it. Maybe so....But the Bible teaches without question, Our Bodies are the Temples of God...1 drink a year or one drink a day...no difference to God. He will not place The Holy Ghost within anyone who mistreats and takes likely what he said through Apostle Paul.

 

[Ricko1]

Well your opinion is in direct conflict with the scriptures. As the Lord said: "nothing that a man puts into his body, defiles a man, but what comes from a mans heart" Wine (fermented) is clearly that which is prescribed at the Lords table.

Even as Paul rebuked those who where getting "drunk" and the Lords supper. One does not get drunk on grape juice. lol

1Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

You are perverting the true meaning of what defiles our bodies. I just spent 45 minutes giving you scripture after scripture which tells you, and me and every person here...You cannot defile your body with Alcohol Wine, Beer, Whiskey whatever. What goes in our bodies is food...Meat..Veggies..Fruits not just liquids as your trying to lead us into twisting that verses meaning.

Friend, You don' t need me to tell you the truth if you don' t want to hear it, fine with me...do whatever you want. You, not me has to give account to God for what you did or did' nt do. I am here to teach what is righteous. Not to debate, and Argue. If you don' t want to hear about it...I understand, no hard feelings...God Bless You!!

 

[Mitspa]

So what are you are trying to convince us, is every sin, or unrighteous thing done in the OT is now OK to put it aside..and sin on huh? ha ha that is hilarious..excuse Me I could not help myself...


Let me give my personal testimony on Drinking and Drugs.

Prior to my coming to Jesus in October 1987...I drank probably 5 six packs of beer per week, Jack Daniels, Seagrams etc at various times of the year as well Was not a big MJ taker, but did some Maui Wowee etc. Did all that for years. Came to an Evangelistic service with my second wife...And WHAM I felt something in my heart I never felt before...and that night, 26 years+ I never picked up another drink, cigarette, or Joint. Never gambled again, and am happier then ever before and willing to do whatever it takes to please the Lord for what he did that night for me...I owe him all I have...

Now, I realize I was an addict...and some reading this may be thinking...I am not an addict like he was...I can handle it. Maybe so....But the Bible teaches without question, Our Bodies are the Temples of God...1 drink a year or one drink a day...no difference to God. He will not place The Holy Ghost within anyone who mistreats and takes likely what he said through Apostle Paul.

Did I say that in any way? What I said was that we are not under the OLD covenant law "letter" for the letter kills. But under the Spirit and in liberty we shew- forth the Spirit of God working in us. This is the New Covenant .. liberty from legal rules, that one might by faith and love serve the Lord. Now I do not drink, but do plan to bring my communion in line with the biblical standard at some point, using not "grape-juice" but wine which represents the joy of the Spirit.

 

[Mitspa]

You are perverting the true meaning of what defiles our bodies. I just spent 45 minutes giving you scripture after scripture which tells you, and me and every person here...You cannot defile your body with Alcohol Wine, Beer, Whiskey whatever. What goes in our bodies is food...Meat..Veggies..Fruits not just liquids as your trying to lead us into twisting that verses meaning.

Friend, You don' t need me to tell you the truth if you don' t want to hear it, fine with me...do whatever you want. You, not me has to give account to God for what you did or did' nt do. I am here to teach what is righteous. Not to debate, and Argue. If you don' t want to hear about it...I understand, no hard feelings...God Bless You!!

No I do not "need" you to tell me the "truth", I see no evidence that you have understanding to instruct me in any regards to the truth of the gospel. The OLD covenant has passed away, this is basic biblical knowledge. We are not subject to rules of "touch not-taste not" in fact these sort of rules are a rejection of the true gospel.

 

[lynn w]

Yes obedience of faith, according to the "law of faith" that works according to the scriptures (as a man believes in his heart, so is he)
The "law of works" is a rejection of the Cross.

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of our conduct and
As it is written...As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as He who called you is Holy, so be holy in all you do. 1 Peter 3 16
Also, if you love Me, keep my commands. John 14:15

It's about our motives for obedience. If we obey to recieve salvation its legalism. If we obey because we love Him its obedience... In other words it's following Christ!

God bless you!

 

[Ricko1]

No I do not "need" you to tell me the "truth", I see no evidence that you have understanding to instruct me in any regards to the truth of the gospel. The OLD covenant has passed away, this is basic biblical knowledge. We are not subject to rules of "touch not-taste not" in fact these sort of rules are a rejection of the true gospel.

Google this..." Jesus and Wine" by Chris Wilhoit...This Brother is right on target.