Amen Paul! It is so sad to me to see good people become so confused by something so simple!
What is Love, According to God?
- Thread starter Bro.tan
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Amen Paul! It is so sad to me to see good people become so confused by something so simple!
Much learning and little application make for much useless banter. All of us have our own journey to clean the inside of the cup-then worry about the outside. When we compare ourselves to Christ and not other men; then we see how filthy and pathetic we really are no matter how much there is written in the 'law'.
The more 'law' a society has; the more wicked it has become. Praise the LORD Jesus Christ came to fulfill what was necessary in the law. It IS finished...
There was only one law in the Garden of Eden-and mankind messed that ONE law up. And that was when Adam walked with the LORD face to face; before knowledge of any sin...
The more 'law' a society has; the more wicked it has become. Praise the LORD Jesus Christ came to fulfill what was necessary in the law. It IS finished...
There was only one law in the Garden of Eden-and mankind messed that ONE law up. And that was when Adam walked with the LORD face to face; before knowledge of any sin...
Bro.tan
Inactive
Lets take another look at Galatians 3 with better understanding...Paul says in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself. (v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). (v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus. (v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster. And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law.
If you are following all of the writing of Paul, then you will find out that you are following Jesus, and if you are truly following Jesus then you are following the law of God.
Bro.tan
Inactive
Paul said in (Rom. 5:13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. If there is no law, there is no sin! (1Cor. 14:37) If any man thinks himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. Paul didn't come preaching and teaching his own thing, but he abided in the doctrine of Christ.
You don't have the right to pick and choose which bits and pieces of the law are required for righteousness and which you consider null. You are specifically contradicting the Messiah Himself. Jesus himself specifically refutes your position (Matt 5:18)..... James, also concurs (James.2:10)
Jesus says "Not one yot or one tittle shall be removed till ALL is fulfilled"...
Bro.tan
Inactive
In the scriptures its written in Proverbs 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
Bro.tan
Inactive
Paul says in Ephesians (5:1) Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
(2) And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Throughout the bible scripture upon scripture tells us that man is supposed to love God and obey His commandments.
Deuteronomy (6:5) And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might
Deuteronomy (13:4) Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Joshua (22:5) But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the Lord charged you, to love the Lord your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
In the following verses it states that if one professes to know Jesus and does not keep His commandments that person is a liar and the truth is not in Him but he who keeps the word of God it is he who loves Him.
I John (2:1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
(2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
(3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
(5) But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
(6) He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
I John (5:1) Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
(2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
(3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
II John (1:6) And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Ecclesiastes (12:13) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
(14) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
In Revelation the last book of the bible it is still letting you know that you have to obey the commandments of God.
Revelation (22:13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(2) And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Throughout the bible scripture upon scripture tells us that man is supposed to love God and obey His commandments.
Deuteronomy (6:5) And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might
Deuteronomy (13:4) Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Joshua (22:5) But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the Lord charged you, to love the Lord your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
In the following verses it states that if one professes to know Jesus and does not keep His commandments that person is a liar and the truth is not in Him but he who keeps the word of God it is he who loves Him.
I John (2:1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
(2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
(3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
(5) But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
(6) He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
I John (5:1) Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
(2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
(3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
II John (1:6) And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Ecclesiastes (12:13) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
(14) For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
In Revelation the last book of the bible it is still letting you know that you have to obey the commandments of God.
Revelation (22:13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
(14) Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Following the law is of the flesh, and cannot please God. And as you have quoted, Paul's words are the Lord's commandments! As Jesus says,
John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
John 15: 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.
Make Jesus your Savior, strive to follow His teachings, love like He loved, and He covers our inability to keep the law. We are free from the law! Amen
Paul was inspired to teach even more of how we are free from the law and what that means. But you should know that. If you don't, look it up. Don't be unlearned or unstable. God bless
Amen brother!
Again I say AMEN! You made excellent foundation truth from the Word!
Ephesians 2:8-9.....ESV
8" For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Bro.tan
Inactive
All the verses you quoted are good, but in your case they are of need for understanding.... Paul talks about two laws in Romans 8, and further explain the difference between spiritual minded and carnal minded people. In the scriptures its written in Psalms 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever. Now lets see what commandments Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 1John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning
People love one another by keeping God's Laws (commandments).
Bro.tan
Inactive
I agree...but if one does not repent or get baptize in the name of Jesus as commanded, how much more can grace abound my friend? Paul says in Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? What separates the sinners from the saints, even the saints have grace and kept the laws and commandments. And afterwards, repentance and being baptize, then grace may be abound by an individual for past sins, not future. Pauls says in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.
Romans 6:1 that you posted is an argumentative statement. His argument is this.......
"Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound"???
The answer is then given in verse 2....."God forbid".
What seperated sinners from saints is NOTHING because saints are still sinners!
The righteousness of God is by faith NOT BY WORKS!
John 6:28 say.....
"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom hath sent me".
The grace of God is infinate love operating by an infinite means.....The scrifice of Christ. That gives an infinite freedom which is unhindered by the restrictions of the law. Today, our holy God is free to reach down to meet our needs in Christ Jesus. God therefore is FREE to save all those who will trust Christ.
Bro. Tan. YOu have wrongly understood what Salvation really is and that has led you into a world of misunderstanding. You seem very intelligent and my prayer is that you would consider someof the other Bible teachings that explain grace and salvation.
You see, Salvation is not a matter of believers trying to confess and repent from every sin they commit before they die. Salvation is not based on whether a Christian has confessed and repented of every sin. Salvation is NOT based on getting wet or keeping the laws of God.
Yes, we should confess our sins to God as soon as we are aware that we have sinned. However, we do not always need to be asking God for forgiveness. When we place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, all of our sins are forgiven. That includes past, present, and future, big or small. Believers do not have to keep asking for forgiveness or repenting in order to have their sins forgiven. Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins, and when they are forgiven, they are all forgiven.
Col. 1:14.....
"In whom we have redemption through His blood {Christ} even the forgivness of sins."
Acts 10:43.....
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whoseoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins".
What we are to do is confess our sins.
1 John 1:9............
“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness”.
That verse tells us to “confess” our sins to God. The word “confess” means “to agree with.” When we confess our sins to God, we are agreeing with God that we were wrong, that we have sinned. God forgives us, through confession, on an ongoing basis because of the fact that He is “faithful and just.” How is God “faithful and just”? He is faithful by forgiving sins, which He has promised to do for all those who receive Christ as Savior. He is just by applying Christ’s payment for our sins, recognizing that the sins have indeed been atoned for.
Bro.tan
Inactive
It is the willful sinning that separates the sinner from the saints...and sin is what you need to put in check. Paul says, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26,27)
For those who don't know what sin is...Its (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. In 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is true...but Paul tell us that the wilfully sin is the problem after knowledge of the truth. So this tells me that you can't keep confessing wilful sinning. Not keeping the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, as commanded by the Lord, is a sin. Paul said in (Rom. 7:7, 12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy?
Bro. Tan, the words are there and the meaning cannot be mistaken. The word “all” might just as well be spelled John Smith or Mary Jones or Bro. Tan! The shocking fact is that you are under the sentence of death! You have been found guilty before the law, and there is no court of appeal in the world that can reverse the sentence and find you not guilty. The fact is that you are guilty, just as guilty as sin.
According to 1 John 3:4.......
“sin is the transgression of the law,” and you must plead guilty to breaking the law.
Whose law did you break? Paul answers quickly,
Romans 7:7......
“I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet”.
There it is! The great Ten-Commandment law is the one that was broken, and it demands death for the transgressor.
In desperation the sinner searches for a way to be justified in the sight of that broken law. How can the sentence of death be turned aside? Can man atone for his sins by obeying the commandments of God for the rest of his life? Back comes the answer in language that no one can misinterpret:
Romans 3:20.......
“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight”.
How much clearer does God have it say it Bro. Tan for you to grasp His plan?????
Listen; there is a reason why works will not justify a soul. If a man is found guilty of stealing and is sentenced to ten years in jail, he may indeed justify himself by works. By serving the time of his sentence, the man may satisfy the claims of the law. He is considered perfectly justified and innocent because he has worked out his deliverance by fulfilling the sentence. In the same manner, a murderer may be justified by works if he serves the fifty years of his sentence. But suppose the sentence is death instead of fifty years? Can the prisoner then justify himself by works? Never! Even if he should work for one hundred years at hard labor, the law would still demand death.
Hebrews 9:22-28 says.....
The truth is that “without shedding of blood is no remission. … So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many”.
This is why works can never save the sinner. The penalty for sin is not ten years in prison or fifty years at hard labor. The sentence is death, and the law cannot be satisfied except by the shedding of blood. That unchangeable law with its unrelenting death sentence could no more be removed than the throne of God could be toppled. The guilt of the past cannot be erased by resolutions of good behavior in the future. The sinner finally is forced to confess that he owes something that he cannot pay. The law demands death and he cannot satisfy it without forfeiting his own life for eternity.
We cannot earn forgiveness by working hard to obey. No sinner can gain favor and acceptance with God because he keeps the law. The law was not made for the purpose of saving or justifying. It was made to show us our need of cleansing and to point us to the great source of cleansing, Jesus Christ, our Lord.
Bro.tan, I agree, we are saved by works. But the works we have are not our own, they are Christ's. Christ fulfilled the law for us.
Noone in Adam has ever kept the law perfectly, that is why they had to sacrifice sheep and cattle. But our perfect sacrifice has come, and death and sin are no longer a reality to those who have faith in Christ.
You are obviously do not agree with Sola Fide, and you are not an evangelical. You are a Pharisee at best.
Noone in Adam has ever kept the law perfectly, that is why they had to sacrifice sheep and cattle. But our perfect sacrifice has come, and death and sin are no longer a reality to those who have faith in Christ.
You are obviously do not agree with Sola Fide, and you are not an evangelical. You are a Pharisee at best.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.
Also Bro.tan, your doctrine makes no logical sense. You say once we come to Christ by faith only our past sins are forgiven, but it is up to us to keep ourselves saved? What happens when you sin? Do you suddenly lose your salvation?
What is that person supposed to do? Keep coming back to Jesus trying harder and harder each time? How can they ever be sure of their salvation?
And why, if it is faith in Christ which grants forgiveness of sin, can't a person simply have faith and be forever forgiven? Or can Jesus not cleanse you after sinning? Didn't he come to save sinners?
What is that person supposed to do? Keep coming back to Jesus trying harder and harder each time? How can they ever be sure of their salvation?
And why, if it is faith in Christ which grants forgiveness of sin, can't a person simply have faith and be forever forgiven? Or can Jesus not cleanse you after sinning? Didn't he come to save sinners?
I have a feeling you are Semi-Pelagian Bro.tan.