What Was Finished at the Cross?

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Francis Drake said:
1Tim2v3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Here we have an all powerful God who wants all men to be saved, but somehow only manages it for a small portion. The rest can go to hell, literally!

How can an omnipotent and omniscient God fail in his stated desires, unless there was a mitigating factor in common knowledge, so not needed in that passage.

That mitigating factor is freewill, and it alone explains why God's desire that all men be saved cannot happen.
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I guess I can't respond to this because it is banned from this forum. If it weren't I'd have some things to say for sure.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
I guess I can't respond to this because it is banned from this forum. If it weren't I'd have some things to say for sure.
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Dear Cosmicwaffle,

I had to leave another forum and come here just to get some peace--brothers and sisters were battling each other on this subject.
I praise God that we've got good moderators here!
 
Penion said:
Dear Cosmicwaffle,

I had to leave another forum and come here just to get some peace--brothers and sisters were battling each other on this subject.
I praise God that we've got good moderators here!
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Only because it is something worth battling for. Theology such as Calvinism and Arminianism is about who God is, and that is of up-most importance.
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
The only way to learn about God and His word is through His Holy Spirit.
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Amen, but sometimes our flesh gets in the way of a pefect understanding, and certain concepts need to be explained or worked out. I am just passionate about theology because it causes me to worship God more fully, as we worship him in spirit and truth concerning who he is.
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
The only way to learn about God and His word is through His Holy Spirit.
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Proverbs27v17
As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
Hopefully, brother sharpens brother!
Without a doubt, the best teacher is the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately our human intellect can blockade our understanding or willingness to hear Him whisper to us. That's why listening and discussing scripture with others is so valuable in challenging and exposing any errors in our belief systems.
For any discussion to produce value, there is one provisor, and that is to conduct it with respect to the presence of the Holy Spirit.
 
Francis Drake said:
That mitigating factor is freewill, and it alone explains why God's desire that all men be saved cannot happen
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That is because it is up to us to decide if we want salvation or not. As for God's will yes it's His desire to save all.
yes sir it is our free will that decides
 
Noblemen said:
Paul made the statement in , , "I was alive without the law once," paul was never alive without the law, law was still in effect when Paul was born. It's like he was speaking retrospectively as Adam. And the commandment that came was the commandment "not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."
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I think the NLT has a better translation of Romans 7:9 At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life, 10 and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
God's electing love was all we needed, and that came with the plan of salvation from sin.

Tired of Christians saying God wants people to be saved but can't save them. Tired of them saying Christ's death only made it possible. Would Christ go to the cross for the mere possibility of saving his chosen? Bah, he went there to purchase us completely for himself. We are his sheep and children. God fully saves, he doesn't just attempt to.
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Why then, are the majority of people not saved?
 
Francis Drake said:
Proverbs27v17
As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
Hopefully, brother sharpens brother!
Without a doubt, the best teacher is the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately our human intellect can blockade our understanding or willingness to hear Him whisper to us. That's why listening and discussing scripture with others is so valuable in challenging and exposing any errors in our belief systems.
For any discussion to produce value, there is one provisor, and that is to conduct it with respect to the presence of the Holy Spirit.
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I only regret that I have but one Amen to give for that post.- (inspired by Nathan Hale)
 
Big Moose said:
Why then, are the majority of people not saved?
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He did not plan to save everyone. Simple as that. Some people are vessels of wrath used to display his justice and wrath against sin while we are vessels of mercy used to display his grace and love.

Let me ask you something... Did God have to save any of us? Would he not be fully justified in hating us and sending us to hell? It is a marvel he loved and saved any of us.
 
Cosmicwaffle said:
He did not plan to save everyone. Simple as that. Some people are vessels of wrath used to display his justice and wrath against sin while we are vessels of mercy used to display his grace and love.

Let me ask you something... Did God have to save any of us? Would he not be fully justified in hating us and sending us to hell? It is a marvel he loved and saved any of us.
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He would be justified because of how we disobey and sin.
God only creates things He loves. He wouldn't create something He hated. It is not that He has to save us, it is that He wants to save us. He has offered it to all. Hence the scripture that God wills/desires that all be saved. It is not true love if you make them love you by force or programming. True love comes to you when the other has the free choice to love you. This means that people have the choice to not love God, and will receive the consequences of their choice.
Yes, to us it is a marvel He would save any of us. But as it is, love makes you do crazy things. God is love so God must be crazy. Thank God He is crazy for us. :)
 
Big Moose said:
He would be justified because of how we disobey and sin.
God only creates things He loves. He wouldn't create something He hated. It is not that He has to save us, it is that He wants to save us. He has offered it to all. Hence the scripture that God wills/desires that all be saved. It is not true love if you make them love you by force or programming. True love comes to you when the other has the free choice to love you. This means that people have the choice to not love God, and will receive the consequences of their choice.
Yes, to us it is a marvel He would save any of us. But as it is, love makes you do crazy things. God is love so God must be crazy. Thank God He is crazy for us. :)
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So I am saved because I chose to love God? Not because he chose me and loved me first? It's because of my free choice? Not God's? I decide if I go to heaven or hell? I decide to be spiritually born again? I decide if I am written in the Lamb's book of life? I decide if I am one of God's elect, chosen before the foundation of the world? I decide what kind of vessel I will be? I tell the potter what to do? My will supercedes God's will to save me? My choice is the only one that matters?
 
JG27_chili said:
That is because it is up to us to decide if we want salvation or not. As for God's will yes it's His desire to save all.
yes sir it is our free will that decides
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Have you now endorsed the battle between Arminianism and Calvinism? It's going to get pretty ugly around here without the Moderators enforcing the rules.
 
Peter Luke said:
What you are saying is that it is God's plan to have sinners, such as those that prosecute and murder Christians, just so he can display extreme anger (wrath).
I am sorry, but my understanding of God does not fit this picture.
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That's perfectly understandable, as most people's picture of God does not fit it. I just go off of scripture and the fact that everything happens in conformity with his pefect will and plan. If people are sent to hell, he mean't it to be for his glory. Otherwise we would have a very sad God who could not save those whom he wanted to.

Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? (‭Romans‬ ‭9‬:‭21-24‬ NIV)
 
Peter Luke said:
What you are saying is that it is God's plan to have sinners, such as those that prosecute and murder Christians, just so he can display extreme anger (wrath).
I am sorry, but my understanding of God does not fit this picture.
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I would invite you to study
Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,
Rom 9:7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named."
Rom 9:8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Rom 9:9 For this is what the promise said: "About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son."
Rom 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac,
Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—
Also,
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

Also,
 
Cosmicwaffle and Chopper, these verses are about the individuals who are hardened by God, so when they do turn around, it would be to the glory of God.
It is not about creating sinners just to destroy them.
 
Peter Luke said:
Cosmicwaffle and Chopper, these verses are about the individuals who are hardened by God, so when they do turn around, it would be to the glory of God.
It is not about creating sinners just to destroy them.
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The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble. (Proverbs 16:4 ESV)

If God doesn't have a purpose for evil, why allow it to exist?
 
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